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Pushing a CPU to Heat Death, Intentionally 291

sdougal writes "This site is showing a Pico-ITX board running Ubuntu with no cooling whatsoever. They even let the public guess how long it would last: 'Last week thousands of you placed bets on how long the new Pico-ITX board from VIA, the VIA EPIA PX5000EG, can last without any cooling whatsoever. An ARTiGO Builder Kit was offered as the grand prize. Yesterday afternoon the voting stopped and the Naked Pico Challenge started in earnest. We simply loaded up Ubuntu 8.04, set it to work playing an mpeg-4 video and then removed the heatsink, leaving the CPU and VX700 chipset bare to the world. We recorded the event here in this video and set up a live video stream so you punters can keep a watchful eye on the PX5000EG as it works away.'"
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Pushing a CPU to Heat Death, Intentionally

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  • by blind biker ( 1066130 ) on Thursday May 22, 2008 @10:57AM (#23505466) Journal
    Not true at all. Have you heard of electromigration? Its rate increases with temperature, exponentially (actually, by the Arrhenius law). Accelerated electromigration failure tests are and have been extremely common both in the industry as in research institutions.
  • by TheMeuge ( 645043 ) on Thursday May 22, 2008 @11:05AM (#23505558)
    In open air, with no fans blowing air PAST a hot object, it will cool much slower than inside an enclosure where air is brought to the object and is actively exhausted.

    This isn't readily apparent in most modern equipment because hot components have their own active cooling, and the ambient air is cooler outside the case.

    However, if I turn up my 3-speed 120mm case fans to Max, as opposed to Min, my CPU temperature will drop below what I am able to achieve outside.

    But that is only possible when the wiring has been carefully managed to avoid heat traps.
  • by AdamWill ( 604569 ) on Thursday May 22, 2008 @11:15AM (#23505726) Homepage
    That's because of a rather famous incident with the *previous* generation of AMD chips.

    Intel had recently introduced an overheat sensor into their CPUs. They still have them, I think. There's basically a thermal probe included in the CPU packaging, and if the temperature goes over a certain critical level, the CPU starts throttling itself down, until the temperature goes down to a safer level.

    Tom's Hardware (probably being paid by Intel...) did a video experiment on this. They got an Intel (early P4, IIRC) and a then-current-gen Athlon, started them both playing Quake 3, then removed the HSF.

    The Intel chip promptly throttled itself down to 400MHz or so, and kept running the game (rather slowly). The Athlon crashed, hit something like 200-300 degrees C, and burned a little hole in the motherboard.

    After that little stunt, AMD started building overheat sensors into their CPUs quite fast.

    I saw this in action on one of my own machines, a Shuttle SN62K, a couple of years back. That machine has a known issue with the motherboard fan headers dying after about a year of use. It's also a very quiet system. I was using a 2.4GHz Celeron in it at the time. The fan header died and the fan (only fan in the machine, if you know Shuttles) stopped working. The CPU throttled itself down to 800MHz and kept right on going, for two weeks, before I actually noticed.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 22, 2008 @11:47AM (#23506336)
    The CPU was hot enough to scald my finger

    Really? The CPU got so hot it went into a liquid or gaseous form? (You can't scald yourself on something solid.)
  • Re:How about (Score:4, Informative)

    by sm62704 ( 957197 ) on Thursday May 22, 2008 @11:51AM (#23506402) Journal
    <OT>You really don't need the non-breakable space, but if you would have you got it backwards. The apersand goes before nbsp and the semicolon follows. If there are any spaces it won't work. </OT>

    Will what melt, the CPU, the server, the building, or the polar ice caps?

    Shit, my ice cream cone just melted...
  • by master_kaos ( 1027308 ) on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:11PM (#23506728)

    I bought a $20 test device to confirm the deadness of PSUs.
    Wow, why? I use a (basically) free paper clip. Connect one end of the paper clip to the green wire, and the other end to any black wire (ground) and press the power button... if it doesnt power up, means it is dead, if it does power up it is most likely fine
  • by flibuste ( 523578 ) on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:36PM (#23507072)
    Check your motherboard. If capacitors look bumped anormaly, your motherboard is dying slowly and is the root cause of your problem. I have experienced those exact symptoms recently, and bought a power supply for nothing...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:42PM (#23507182)
    the formula for convective heat transfer (transfering heat from the surface of the heatsink to the air) doesn't involve thickness. A very thinly-sliced 12"x12" sheet of aluminum, uniformly heated to 200F, will transfer just about as much heat/second to the air as a thick plate of 12"x12"aluminum @200F will (there will be some differences, because the plate has a *bit* more surface area, but I digress...)

    However, CONDUCTIVE heat transfer (getting the heat to go from the "hot" end of the heat sink to the tip of the fin) is directly proportional to surface area. This means that, were you to use a single sheet of aluminum foil as a "fin" on your heatsink, you would not be able to get the heat to actually travel effectively to the tip of the fin where it could be removed via convection. Thus you'd wind up with a very hot "hot" end of the heatsink (near the chip, which does you no good), and a cool "cold" end of the fin (which is worthless, as convective heat transfer is proportional to the difference between the surface temp and the air temp). If you were to instead use a thick sheet of aluminum as your "fin", that would allow the heat to easily travel from the "hot" end to the tip of the fin, where the air could take it away.

    However, you can get the best of both worlds by using multiple thinly-sliced sheets of aluminum. Same cross-sectional area as the thick slice (for good conduction), and maximum surface area (for convection). Which is exactly what most heatsinks look like.
  • by billcopc ( 196330 ) <vrillco@yahoo.com> on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:43PM (#23507192) Homepage
    Perhaps I'm expecting too much here, but I'm not at all impressed by a 24-watt power draw, considering the inflated price of mATX components.

    The average entry-level Intel-based desktops I sell, they eat 50 watts. They don't run fanless, but they are effectively noiseless beyond a foot. This is for a 2ghz Core-2 with 2gb ram and a SATA hard drive. Considering the Intel puts out at least twice as much performance as the Via, plus the second core.

    I have yet to put them to work as servers and media centers, mainly because I don't have the time and my old gear still works well (XBMC + a weak old AMD X2). Still, I see very few advantages for the Via when compared with today's uncrippled desktops. Five years ago, sure, Via was unique, but they've been resting on their laurels for too long.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 22, 2008 @01:01PM (#23507484)
    Just a note, a lightly loaded psu within tolerance voltages due to the tester may not always give the right tolerance voltages when actually loaded.
  • by Zadaz ( 950521 ) on Thursday May 22, 2008 @01:15PM (#23507734)
    Reading the summary I thought "If this is a publicity stunt, it's backfiring". It's freaking 2008, a cpu shouldn't be able to cook it's self. If it can, I'm not buying.

      Last week the fan on my laptop failed (Intel Celeron). It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out why the thing was suddenly running so slow (It runs quiet anyway). But it still ran. It ended up running for a day and half straight, under load, with no fan. Replaced the fan, all is good.
  • by Megane ( 129182 ) on Thursday May 22, 2008 @01:58PM (#23508484)
    That wooshing sound is the point going over your head. It would have been a dead server with Windows because Linux has much better thermal performance, due to the way it idles with the halt instruction. Or at least that's the common wisdom and what GP was referring to.
  • Actually, the newer CPUs will handle it BETTER than that P3 did.

    Anything older than that P3 would have cooked. That P3 went into a frozen state to save itself. The P4 and newer underclock themselves until they're running cool enough, and freeze if that's still not cool enough.
  • by inasity_rules ( 1110095 ) on Thursday May 22, 2008 @05:31PM (#23511576) Journal

    I still wonder what those capacitors were for.

    Probably for smoothing(filtering) the input voltage. A radio will easily function without these, especially if run off battery and not mains. On mains you'd get a nasty hum.

  • by PitaBred ( 632671 ) <slashdot&pitabred,dyndns,org> on Thursday May 22, 2008 @06:10PM (#23512056) Homepage
    Put some metal screen over the vent slots, and you'll stop having that problem. Use superglue or even just hot glue to seal the edges, and there should be a much lower incidence of roach suicide via PSU.
  • Obligatory (Score:2, Informative)

    by wolf12886 ( 1206182 ) on Thursday May 22, 2008 @10:21PM (#23513660)
    Exploding CPU [google.com]

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