Microsoft Accommodating Eee With Lightweight XP

KrispyChips writes "In what could be a first Microsoft is working to create a special build of Windows, just because Windows doesn't run very well on a certain computer. ASUS' runaway success Eee PC is now 'officially' available with Windows XP, but (according to APC magazine) is not exactly a great experience. There are none of the nice pre-loaded apps that come with the Linux version, for example. And XP has some real problems coping with the screen size and limited system specs of the unit. As a result, ASUS says it is going back to Microsoft and working on a special XP build that will be lightweight and more suited to UMPCs."

Re:Pre-loaded apps

[ccozan]

Firefox and Openoffice.org have _earned_ their place on a desktop. IE or Mediaplayer didn't: MS used his OS monopoly to push them in the desktop. The same with Apple: they have a _almost_ monopoly for music players, but using this to push Quicktime ( = crap ) on everybody's desktop should not be allowed.

Re:Why XP

[LiquidCoooled]

It runs native XP apps without having to get a special version.
You have a whole back catalog running on a cheap UMPC platform.

Re:System design as a whole

[CastrTroy]

Most software on all operating systems expects that you will have higher than 800x600. Just try running Linux in VMWare using 800x600 resoultion. Many apps go off the screen, and there's no way to even reach the stuff on the right and bottom sides of the window. Even shrinking the window doens't help, because it doesn't allow you to scroll around. This is common on a lot of options screens, that have to be so large, because they present 40,000 different options to the user in a single form.

Re:Why?

[night_flyer]

because people know Windows... duh

Re:Open Source CD

[PinkyDead]

Eee doesn't have a CD drive.

Re:Pre-loaded apps

[morgan_greywolf]

But when Apple and Linux distros do it, it's okay? And it was okay for MS to do it BEFORE they lost their monopoly court case? Okay, now I'm clear.

Well, I assume you're trolling, but I'll answer you anyway (feel free to mod me down) -- Linux vendors and Apple are not bundling apps in order to put competitors out of business.

Microsoft bundled DoubleSpace/DriveSpace to put Stac out of business, they bundled EMM386 to put Quarterdeck out of business, they bundled Internet Explorer to put Netscape out of business, and they bundled Media Player to get Apple to stop making QuickTime for Windows (I believe the testimony given in court was they told Apple to "knife the baby" in regards to QuickTime for Windows).

You might like Microsoft's products, that's fine, but if you agree with their business practices then you're no better than they are.

quite nice though

[atamagabakkaomae]

I just bought the Eee with Windows a few days ago here in Tokyo. Actually I havent really closely followed the story, but I think I already saw it here in the stores with Windows XP at least 1.5 month ago.

Anyway, just to comment on the usability: With the preconfigured Windows setup the small screen is really not used to the optimum. But if you tweak a little bit (like hiding the startbar, setting the Desktop environment to maximum performance etc.) things turn out to be quite ok. I also installed the 'hacked' scaling video driver, which works nicely and allows me to run my VJing application at 1024x768. So far without crash.

I would have preferred to buy the Linux version of this machine, but couldn't get it here at Big Camera. So the Windows version was more of a second choice. No proper command line but, anyway, I dont regret it.

Oh, and Microsoft/Asus does deliver some bundled stuff with the machine. Some LiveBlabla (office suite or something). I uninstalled it without looking at it though (for openoffice).

To conclude I dont think the normal Windows XP is such an unpleasant experience on the Eee. Of course a version with a smaller harddisk footprint might be nice.

Re:BWAHAHAHAHA!

[blackdevl]

To further comment on this, the OS the parent is referring to is Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PC's which is based off Windows XP Embedded, to be a replacement for the 9x/2000 machines that volume license customers with SA contracts may be using. It runs on less memory and processor and is up to date on patching (as up to date as XP can be). While this wasnt intended to be a full featured os (I believe its more for remote desktop and holding over old hardware until companies can upgrade), I have used it in vmware and have not had any major issues with it. http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/benefits/fundamentals.mspx [microsoft.com]

Re:Pre-loaded apps

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, like eMusic, Amazon.com, Magnatune.

Works wonderfully. Get a grip, stupid.

Re:BWAHAHAHAHA!

[Hatta]

It's easy enough that there are 3rd party tools [litepc.com] to do it. I can't see how microsoft would have a problem with it.

Re:Pre-loaded apps

[omega_dk]

It works beautifully with Amazon's store.

Oh, and my Zen works well with EMI's stuff on iTunes.

Or are you implying that somehow, Apple should be offering all its music DRM-free against the wishes of the copyright holders? Because at this point, it's no longer Apple that wants the DRM on that music... (Video is another matter: Hey Steve! How about you use your weight on Disney's board to remove the DRM from the Disney movies you sell on iTunes Store?)

Re:Why XP

[Frangible]

Well, CE is pretty limited and not really a great OS for the Eee PC but ... it's hardly related to Windows 3.11. It's a true 32-bit OS, the only problem is its numerous platform incompatibilities and small software library. I've owned CE devices from 2.0 to Windows Mobile 5.

I don't think MS would ever say CE competes with Linux in all situations, but it did try to market CE on Eee-formfactor devices once, like the IBM Workpad z50 (which I used to own) and the HP Jornada 820.

It actually was pretty decent... good battery life, and as long as you didn't mind the limitations of CE, it was an OK experience. But the devices were pretty expensive (before everyone score the z50s on closeout sales).

Previous to that, the only flash-based laptop was the HP Omnibook 300 (425, 430, 530) which did in fact run Windows 3.1. If anything, the Omnibook 300 was the precursor of the Eee, in all measures except cost. And just recalling Trumpet Winsock... well trust me, the internet experience in Windows CE was much better.

CE isn't a terrible OS, it's just that the design choices MS made required too many target platforms that make it annoying to develop for. In reality, a complex CE (Windows Mobile) app requires tweaks/a version for every device it runs on. At its conception MS wanted CE to be more platform agnostic than NT (which CE is based on) but it ended up being far less, and now, only running on a single CPU architecture (ARM/XScale).

CE has successfully competed against Linux and won, however, in the handheld/PDA marketplace. It also currently is somehow managing to outsell the iPhone in the smartphone arena. So... I wouldn't declare MS a total loser here. But yeah, I'll take Linux over CE on a notebook-type device.

Apologies for the terrible digression/rambling...

Why special version.

[leuk_he]

MS had a vista product aimed at this market segment: origami, however vista is too large for this ultra cheap pc. they also have windows mobile. But every one know windows mobile has very little to do with windows, and fails to run everyday windows applications.

Vista origami can run nicely on the already existing (900$ ) Umpc, but the ultra cheap eee pc was an unexpected success.

And MS already has a modularized version of XP ready, XP embedded. It is a small step to offer that to Asus with special licensing/branding condition (=cheap)

Re:BWAHAHAHAHA!

[Zaiff Urgulbunger]

I'll be curious to see how well they do this. Quite frankly, Linux and FreeBSD have always rocked on less-powerful hardware, because they can fit into a smaller space more readily. Retroactively making XP less of a resource pig isn't going to be easy I bet.

It'll certainly be interesting to see what they do. I'd say the quickest thing they can do is kill off all legacy APIs and crufty bits, but I suspect that too much of their own code requires it to function.

The thing I'm particularly interested in is what they do about OpenOffice. Obviously, there is absolutely no way they are going to want OOo being shipped with XP-lite, but equally, they do need to ship something; but aren't their current "Works" apps basically Office apps with the fancy bits disabled? This being the case, I'd guess they're going to have loads of fun trying to reduce the size of this code base.

Lucky for MS that Apple don't seem to want to compete directly with MS or even be a mass-market IT supplier, but it's unfortunate for MS that the next LTS Ubuntu looks *REALLY* polished!

Heh heh! :D

Windows XP Embedded

[PCM2]

Microsoft has offered a product called Windows XP Embedded [microsoft.com] for a long time. It lets hardware vendors basically roll their own version of XP to suit the requirements of their device. They can take out this or that, assume a smaller screen resolution, or what-have-you. A tool that ships with the product cooks up an install image to their specifications, et voila!

I don't see anything particularly revolutionary about Microsoft helping Asus out with a customized version of Windows for the Eee PC when they routinely do the same for ATM manufacturers, for example.

Re:quite nice though

[domatic]

but that's really only an option for geeks

Um...no. You had only to install it with a Xubuntu CD rather than an Ubuntu CD and you would have got a lightweight desktop out of the box. Choosing to download and burn a different iso isn't a big stretch especially since you seem aware of "lighter window managers".

Re:Pre-loaded apps

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually Netscape made regular progress and delivered new innovations (although increasingly proprietary ones) through ~97 version 4.0).

IE was based on SpyGlass, which was Mosaic's code (and also the original basis for Netscape). It was way behind, and took several years to become less than worthless in comparison to Netscape.

Netscape hoped to sell a premium browser and give away a regular version, but MS' bundling of IE destroyed any market for a non-free browser. By 1997, Netscape's inability to sell their browser, combined with the difficulty of getting users to download it at a time when people had dialup, resulted in the company running out of oxygen.

It had to rethink how to compete with the bundling of IE and Windows, so it released Communicator 4.0 with email and other desktop features, cross platform. This ground its web browser to a halt and screwed the company.

  At the same time, MS made a 1997 deal with Apple to bundle IE for Mac with new Macs, and to hide Netscape from the desktop. Microsoft continued to develop its browser until Netscape was dead ~2000. Once that happened, IE on the Mac was put on hold around 2003, and even the Windows version went into maintenance mode.

It wasn't until the resurgence of Firefox (Netscape's ashes) and Safari that MS began thinking about a new version of IE.

Apple in the Web Browser Wars: Netscape vs Internet Explorer [roughlydrafted.com]

Times have changed for MS

[EmbeddedJanitor]

When MS was pushing UMPCs, they still felt very much in control. They could call the shots and force people to go where they wanted, even if that ended up in aborted products.

With Eee PC etc being so popular, they don't feel so in control any more. MS are fighting a defensive action.

One thing Eee PC has done is exploded the myth that Linux is unusable by the non-geek and MS need to counteract that.

Re:Microsoft Windows CE-Vista for Eee pc

[petermgreen]

same goes for XP on these low end devices from what I've heard. They can get XP on there but stuff just the user eXPerience is really poor.
I can't imagine it is that bad when sensiblly configured. Sure the site linked in the article shows the dialog running off the screen but it is only just off and I bet it fits under the classic theme.

The performance while it won't be a world beater shouldn't be too bad either. The processor and ram are slow/low by current standards but not bad by the standards of when XP was released.

I ran 9x (which has much the same GUI as XP once you switch XP to the classic theme) on 640x480 screens for a long time and it wasn't too bad.

MS had to keep thier dialogs usable in 640x480 because until very recently (I think one of the service packs for XP added VESA support but i'm not sure) the fallback display mode was VGA 640x480 16 color.

8GB of "disk space" is enough for windows office and a few other apps. Even 4GB will fit windows and office. You can put in an SD card for user storage if you get short on space so that's not really too much of an issue.

I don't see the point of starting from CE. Most of the point in going for windows is that it can run standard windows applications. If you lose that ability there is no real advantage to using windows.

My guess is MS will offer a version of XP with a little bit of extra stripping down and keep that on the market until the hardware in theese devices has caught up with the hardware requirements of vista.