Iceland Woos Data Centers As Power Costs Soar 142
call-me-kenneth writes "Business Week covers the soaring demand for power and cooling capacity in data centers. Electricity consumption for US data centers more than doubled between 2000 and 2006. Among the other stats: for every dollar spent on computing equipment in data centers, an additional half dollar is spent each year to power and cool them; and half the electricity used goes for cooling. Iceland, with its cool climate and abundant cheap power, is courting big users like Google and Microsoft as a future data center location. (Can't help thinking they're gonna need a bigger cable first, though.)"
Bigger cable map? (Score:2)
Re:Bigger cable map? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Bigger cable map? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Bigger cable map? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Bigger cable map? (Score:2)
Re:Bigger cable map? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Bigger cable map? (Score:2)
Won't work (Score:1)
Re:Won't work (Score:1)
Re:Won't work (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Won't work (Score:1, Insightful)
I'm not saying your typical data center is going to put out the same heat as a nuclear reactor. They actually take steps to cool the water, but it's still warmer than it went in.
Re:Won't work (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not saying your typical data center is going to put out the same heat as a nuclear reactor. They actually take steps to cool the water, but it's still warmer than it went in.
I think two things will stop these datacenters from going to Iceland: restrictive immigration laws and submarine data cable capacity. Iceland has a total population of about 300,000. They simply can't have a diverse enough IT industry to support setting up these data centers without expats. And without the bandwidth, there simply isn't a point.
Re:Won't work (Score:2)
Re:Won't work (Score:2)
Re:Won't work (Score:2)
Re:Won't work (Score:2, Insightful)
Only CO2 emission would increase global warming, which is, as the name says, global, not local. Just pumping thermal energy doesn't do so. Even huge emitters of pure thermal energy, like coastal nuclear power plants, have significant effects only in their immediate vicinity.
If it's not Bjork don't fix it..... (Score:2, Funny)
What of Greenland? (Score:1)
Re:What of Greenland? (Score:1)
Re:What of Greenland? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What of Greenland? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What of Greenland? (Score:1)
Why don't I look it up, you may ask. Well, I'm drunk and lazy.
Re:What of Greenland? (Score:2)
Re:What of Greenland? (Score:2)
Iceland was named Iceland for reasons that I don't know but my guess is the glaciers.
Greenland on the other hand was named Greenland by an entrepreneurial viking who first explored the coastline of Greenland and then started a colony on the west coast. Calling it Greenland was simply marketing to get more people to join the effort to colonize the land.
It did succeed, the colony was established and existed until climate changes caused hardship and forced them to leave.
The Greenland colony was by the way home of the Vikings who discovered North America and temporarily established a small colony there, until they some time later were chased away by the locals.
Re:What of Greenland? (Score:4, Funny)
More importantly (Score:2)
Re:What of Greenland? (Score:2)
Actually, I would have guessed it would be more black than anything...
Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:5, Informative)
1) cheap geothermal power
2) cheap geothermal cooling
3) easy freight
4) educated and even DNA-tracked populace
5) computing is an indoor sport
Five considerations:
1) they like to go whaling; not necessarily a friendly thing in by some opinions
2) latency; not as a bad as a sat, but not as good as Chicago for US; geo centric for North America and EU
3) earthquakes and unsettled geography
4) too many thermal pools to screw off in
5) don't want my server called 'homerdottir'
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:2)
List_of_Internet_Exchange_Points_by_size [wikipedia.org]
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:3, Informative)
If that's Homer as in Homer Simpson, the server name would be margedottir. In Iceland, the daughters are named after their mothers.
Iceland is probably cool enough that a well designed data center could forgo air-conditioning, unlike the eastern Oregon or eastern Washington sites popular for data centers.
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:4, Informative)
No, they aren't, at least not as a general rule. The general rule is that all children are "named" after their father (and I'm putting that in quotes since it's not really a name as much as a *description* of who you are); it's possible to use the mother's name instead of the father's, too, but it's neither restricted to nor standard for either sex.
(Also, to pick some nits, you've misspelt "dóttir" (and don't tell me about English dropping accents - it's a different letter, not an accent), and the father's/mother's name is put into the genitive case. For example, the son/daughter of Anna could be Önnudóttir, not Annadóttir or Annadottir - that is, assuming their patronymic name wouldn't be, well, patronymic (deriving from their father's name), of course.)
Hope that clears it up! :)
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:1)
Besides, Microsoft doesn't need to go looking for cold weather, they're from Seattle. (like Me)
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:2)
Have any of you SEEN these thermal pools? I guarantee you there won't be a single stressed out IT Geek on that whole island. In fact, a whole island dedicated to huge datacenters and these "Thermal Pools" would be IT Heaven.
If you still don't understand imagine a bunch of gorgeous naked blond women playing around in a bunch of steamy hot water....
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:2)
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:2)
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:2)
As to your second argument: Here is a true story. I once worked on a farm where the farmer kept sheep. He sold them for meat but one of them was his favourite. He said it was more intelligent than the others and that it had feelings. It was never slaughtered but when it died it was buried. You may also care more about certain animals but should you try to punish people who make their living out of them? How about India boycotting countries where cows are killed?
Re:Islands in the Net; shades of Gibson (Score:2)
We have every right to deem it unacceptable for any individual, group or nation to kill animals we consider intelligent much as we have every right to to deem it unacceptable for humans to abuse or kill other humans (especially in cases where the perpetrators 'make their living out of them')
]{
solution to small map? (Score:1)
Re:solution to small map? (Score:2)
You could suggest Yellowknife or some other spot in the Northwest Territories, but I don't think you're going to get a lot of geeks moving to a spot where it's practically dark for 3 months at a stretch, staples like milk and sugar are almost twice as expensive as elsewhere, and the cultural facilities consist of five bars, a theatre, and watching drunken aboriginals fight on Saturday night.
Make use of the waste heat (Score:5, Insightful)
Alaska is actually a good place to implement such a solution. There is a huge amount of sunlight in the summer which, assuming you can avoid frosts, can grow amazing produce. All you need are greenhouses and a heat source. In the winter, when sunlight is no longer plentiful and farming shuts down, the heat can be pumped into local housing. Such a solution would also provide local produce in Alaska - produce that is fresh and doesn't require expensive shipping. One last point about Alaska, it's very central. It might not appear to be when looking at a map, but if you look at a globe you will see that it sits nicely between Asia and North America. I don't know where the current internet pipes are located but if they pass close to Alaska then this idea would be worth some consideration.
William
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
It'd be almost trivial, relatively speaking, running an oceanic cable from Asia (Russia) to Alaska, following the Aleutians chain. I'm not sure how deep the water gets there, but I'm fairly sure it's shallower on the average than further south in the Pacific. Good, quick, cheap way to wire the globe, I'm thinking...
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
Incidentally this is the same gap that Ted Stevens' been pushing to have a bridge built over for much of his career.
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:1)
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
Problem with that (Score:2)
Even now, California's CARB just backed off on requiring car makers to have sold a couple of percent of Zero Emission Vehicles. They had it set up where the car makers where going to be required to sell just a lousy 2% of their cars as ZEVs and have backed off on that. What a mistake. It would have changed America. No doubt other states would have joined them.
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
This could be perceived as being a good thing. You see, if Alaska has to invest in new power sources, the costs of building additional generating capacity is actually minor. One just has to build a slightly larger power plant. All the other costs such as securing a fuel source, allocating land, building infrastructure, etc. remain almost constant.
The state would simply require a long term plan. Get work started right away on new generating facilities. If they are not ready in time simply sell power at reduced rates until the new generating facilities are brought online. If the state lacks power, buy if from British Columbia or the Yukon. The benefits of bringing in a new industry are huge - the state can afford the temporary hit to their budget.
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:1)
I go to school in the Midwest, and on the coldest day of the year (-20 F or so) it's one of the warmest days in the high performance computing lab. We get our cool water from across campus (less than half a mile), and on those cold days they keep the water in the pipes warmer than they would in the summer, to prevent them from freezing.
In fact, our coolest days are in the summer, when it's 90+ F outside.
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:3, Interesting)
So you point is good. Such a solution would have to be designed appropriately. But a poorly designed campus in the Midwest does not mean that the idea will not work in practice. I have seen many buildings that suffer from the symptoms you described (it reaches -50C here). All is good until it gets real cold then some rooms are freezing while others are like saunas. It all comes down to design - something the described buildings lacked (wrt heating).
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:3, Interesting)
As for Alaska, it has some advantages, but if the energy problem is as bad as TFer_Atvar says, that would be hugely prohibitive. Iceland not only has a cold climate, but has abundant geothermal energy. Unfortunately, it seems a little light in terms of the internet connections to the outside world, and only a single direct connection to North America. Compared with something like the US, this might make companies somewhat reluctant to place too much of their data there.
Canada might be another interesting choice. It has all the climate benefits of Iceland, but lacks some of the disadvantages. Datacenters could be easily connected over ground to the US, from which there are ample connections to the rest of the world. As Canada's tar sands are increasingly utilized, the energy costs for the area will likely be at least comparable to most other areas in the world. In fact, as cheaper oil sources are exhausted, the energy costs near the tar sands will likely become relatively cheap. It certainly isn't the most environmentally friendly option, but it will likely be an attractive one for businesses looking to cut costs.
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
http://www.hydroquebec.info/grandesentreprises/tarifs_avantageux.html [hydroquebec.info]
Here is sample calculation for a contract with more than 12 consumption periods with no running-in:
http://www.hydroquebec.com/business/moyen/tarifs_rod.html [hydroquebec.com]
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
It's spectacularly ignorant to expect the local culture to adapt to you. Embrace the opportunity to try something new.
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
I think it's a great place, with a character all its own.
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
So don't move out to the boonies. For example, Montreal [wikipedia.org] has millions of people, between 5,000 and 10,000 restaurants, and you can order in English - most menus are either bilingual, or you can ask for an english menu. English schools, colleges, universities, newspapers, books, TV and radio stations, movies ...
Of course, while it gets cold in the winter, Montreal also gets hot in the summer - 90F to 100F hot, so looks like you'll be moving to the boonies whether you like it or not ... but as long as you've got a healthy liver and like drinking Canadian beer, you should be okay.
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
Re:Make use of the waste heat (Score:2)
CCP (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:CCP (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:CCP (Score:2, Interesting)
Enjoy it while it lasts! (Score:1)
Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bullshit (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Bullshit (Score:2)
Your computer costs about $2300 per year, and will draw easily double the power. So then you're at just over $0.31 electricity per $1 worth of server hardware. Now do the calculations at $0.10 per kwh and you're at $0.5 electricity per $1 server.
Re:Bullshit (Score:2)
Greed, simple as that. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Greed, simple as that. (Score:2)
Saving money means making the best use of manpower. It means not wasting. It means freeing resources to put to other, better uses. Don't sneer at greed, it promotes progress.
Re:Greed, simple as that. (Score:2)
Cool air outside doesn't help that much (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Cool air outside doesn't help that much (Score:2)
But I am not an expert in the field. Numbers would need to be crunched to see how effective that is.
Re:Cool air outside doesn't help that much (Score:2)
A quick search shows that the maximum recorded air temperature in Reykjavik is just under 25 Celsius, so no air conditioning need even on the hottest of days. Given that the main power source in Iceland is hydroelectric and geothermal both of which have zero carbon foot print and the price of which does not depend on any external sources. With an estimated capacity of 50TW/h per year of hydro and geothermal yet undeveloped, looks like a good place to locate a datacentre to me.
Re:Cool air outside doesn't help that much (Score:2)
The colder air outside will render the external condenser of the aircon system more efficient, remember all aircon does is move the heat around. And you could use some level of heat exchange too, pump the warm air through a series of heatsink-clad pipes located outside and it will cool down fairly quickly.
Re:Cool air outside doesn't help that much (Score:5, Informative)
Cold climates have several real challenges for data centers. From an HVAC standpoint, there are two general ways to cool a data center in a cold climate-- outside air only and air/water cooling. Air/water systems have drycoolers with glycol kept around 30-40F, and circulate the cold water throughout the building to fan coil units. Minimal outside air is brought in for "fresh air," and must be humidified which generally requires a lot of energy.
The air-only systems bring in 100% outside air, but must first temper (heat-- to avoid condensation) it and increase the humidity to control static inside the space. Very little pump energy, but the humidification and pre-heat are expensive.
While it seems trivial to filter out dust, the better air filtration systems increase the pressure drop of the air handling unit, and force you to use a bigger fan. Heat wheels and enthalpy wheels are also an option, but have similar challenges in most real-world situations.
The biggest challenge with cold climates is making sure the diesel generators start when needed. This alone makes most data center managers skeptical at the prospects of cold-climate data centers.
For a truly efficient solution, the best approach is likely to be heat removal at the chip level and recovery for other purposes. 100F air isn't very useful, but if you can get 150F water off the chip then that heat can often be reclaimed for some other purpose more effectively. If all else fails, 150F water is pretty easy to cool off in a closed circuit dry cooler no matter what the outside temperature.
There is also a lot of work going into direct-evaporative cooling solutions (swamp coolers) for data centers, as well as some other non-compressor based cooling systems. Unfortunately, most of these can work very efficiently for 9-10 months a year, and need a separate system to cool for the remainder of the year. Having two systems makes the payback equation often favor the less efficient solution...
Re:Cool air outside doesn't help that much (Score:2)
No, truly efficient solution IMHO would be lower powered/more energy efficient devices. We all know that these are most likely Intel systems and in the race to add gates and mHz, efficiency got left by the sidelines.
OT somewhat- A beautiful country (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:OT somewhat- A beautiful country (Score:2)
Coincidence (Score:1, Funny)
they're gonna need a bigger cable
Strange coincidence: I actually got some emails about just this subject.
Power and Cooling Aren't the Real Reasons (Score:4, Informative)
1. Part of the year in nearly total darkness. Nerds and the daystar don't mix well.
2. Real reason anyone goes to Iceland: Icelandic girls [youtube.com] (fast forward to the third minute)
unlikely - the country's in a bad economic state (Score:2)
Forget the ice (Score:2, Informative)
Iceland doesn't have much in the way of natural resources but it has all that power. The way to export that power so far has been to import alumina and export aluminum. The conversion takes a lot of energy. Server farms are another way of exporting power.
The problem is that no-one in their right mind would house their servers here. We have no real redundancy in connectivity. One cable breaks and we suffer increased latency and reduced throughput. This happens more often than most data center clients could tolerate. The good news is that this problem can be solved with more cables. They're not cheap, but neither is building aluminum smelters. Once there are at least two cables going west and two going east, each with sufficient capacity to carry the whole load, then Iceland will be a very nice place for servers.
Their data should be safe setting .... (Score:2)
Yup.
Iceland: Trying hard, but still no major wins (Score:2)
Meanwhile, there have been a bunch of major project announcements in Dublin, including major data centers for Eircom and Digital Realty Trust. Dublin has an existing data center workforce, which may be the difference.
Manitoba: Hot New Data Center Market (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:STOP! Why make plans for ten years from now. (Score:2)
The keywords you're looking for are Dunnington and Nehalem [hothardware.com]
For the really good stuff you'll have to wait for the next process shrink ~3 years (more if competition lets up).
An open question is if more energy efficient processors just mean greater density in the datacenter. Apparently demand for performance shows no sign of letting up any time soon.
Re:Outside temperature (Score:2)
Re:Outside temperature (Score:2)
Actually, most of the volcanoes are in in the Aleutian island [alaska.edu] chain. Most of the population in Alaska in in the Matsu Valley [slashdot.org] (pdf warning) near Anchorage. Several hundred to a thousand miles away. The only thing in between is Kodiak Island which has a Coast Guard base and a bunch of Grizzly bears.
As was pointed out earlier, the Aleutians aren't a very good place to put data centers. No cable. Not much of anything else except drunken fisherman, rocks and the occasional shipwreck. While there are good geothermal regions there, it's just too damned remote to do anything economically useful except fish.
Same general argument goes for the other isolated geothermal hot spots in Alaska - too much space, not enough infrastructure. Some of us like it that way, so stay the hell out of here....
Re:Outside temperature (Score:2)
Re:Outside temperature (Score:2)
Right now, you could make some neat hot tubs but what else would you do with the power?
Here in Southeast Alaska we have hydropower potential up the nose. It rains 11 feet a year here in Sitka. All of our electricity is hydropower. A number of smaller villages, however, run diesel which, of course is getting more and more expensive and is to the point of bankrupting them. Plans have been floated about to try to tie the various towns and villages together to harness the hydropower potential. But it is very expensive (damns, turbines and pole ain't cheap). There are relatively few people in SE Alaska (maybe 40,000 spread over 1000 linear miles).Nobody has been able to come up qwith the up front money to do this. It might get done in the next couple of years if high oil costs keep Alaska's governmental coffers up however the current Governor is trying like mad to keep the current legislators from spending every last penny of that since the oil fields are drying up rather quickly.
And this area has a much denser population than the Aleutian Islands. Who would pay for the transmission lines, if nothing else.
It's a very long way to anywhere out here.
Re:Outside temperature (Score:2)
Re:fiber cut..... (Score:2)