mikesd81 writes "Mobile technology group Ericsson is predicting a 'swift end' for Wi-Fi hotspots, according to the PC Pro site. Johan Bergendahl, the company's chief marketing officer, offers this analysis: 'The rapid growth of mobile broadband is set to make Wi-Fi hotspots irrelevant ... Hotspots at places like Starbucks are becoming the telephone boxes of the broadband era. Industry will have to solve the international roaming issue ... Carriers need to work together. It can be as simple as paying 10 euros per day when you are abroad.' He also pointed to a lack of coverage as a potential hindrance to the growth of the technology."
Now people will just go to Starbucks for the overpriced foo-foo coffees.
Customer: Could I have small coffee Server: That would be a mezzo, sir Customer: what the f*ck? mezzo is medium, piccolo is small Server: sir mezzo means small Customer: never mind, I'll a medium coffe Server: That would be a grande, sir Customer: Whatever, just give me a medium coffee that is actually a small.
I hate that too. "Grande" means big in Spanish, so as a native speaker it just sounds wrong to me and when I go I ask for a "medium-sized whathaveyou" and they ALWAYS try to 'correct' me. I usually politely reply that I refuse to to use their marketspeak and I point to the medium-size display glass that they usually have and repeat my request. I'm polite 'cuz it's their job, but I really hate that stupid naming convention.
I always leave comments to that effect with different pseudonyms every time I go to
The thing is, they must know something about how language is wired to the buying impulse, because they're extremely successful and extremely insistent upon this point. My brother is a bigshot in the food service industry. He's very good at what he does. One day I mentioned to him that I'd ordered a medium soft drink at a fast food restaurant and it turned out to be 32 ounces -- as much soda as we used to order for the entire family when we were kids. According to him, this is a way to maximize sales. Peopl
The fast food places do the same thing, without needing a fauxtalian translation to bring about.
That is another place that gets it so wrong. First time I looked at a menu in the states I saw "entrees", and thought to myself that the 1/2 lb steak was a bit much for a starter, though it turns out it was the main course. Speaking French, where the orginal version comes from "entrée" means starter.
The first time I went in a starbucks, being unfamiliar with the brand and wanting a coffee, I asked for an espresso. The person serving me looked at me as though I were a stain on the floor, and said "you *do* know what that is, don't you"?
It turned out to be a small cardboard (!) cup of disgusting coffee. Now I know why everyone else buys coffee-flavoured milk in those places.
The summary misses the vastly more reasonable figure of 20 euros per month, already available and expected to come down.
I live in the US and pay Sprint about $60/month for unlimited, nationwide access to their EVDO network. I use a Novatel Wireless S720 PC Card (EVDO Rev. A) card and reliably get about 750-1250 kbit connections (sometimes, it's as good as 2-3 mbit/sec). Except for the monthly price, Sprint's abysmal customer service, and my questions about mechanical reliability of both the PC Card connector (lots of insertion/removal) and my specific card's design, I wouldn't want to give it up. Overall, the service is useful.
However, I still look for Wi-Fi spots for two main reasons: 1) If I don't have my power adapter with me, my laptop's runtime on batteries is shortened around 30-50% with the use of the EVDO card. If I suddenly get a ton of last minute work to do, I won't even bother firing up the Sprint card without the power adapter.
2) Sometimes, it's hard to beat a fast WiFi connection. I generally don't need more bandwidth than the Sprint card provides on average, but several hotspots I go to have ponied up the extra money to support a solid Internet connection (4-7 mbit down).
Until these are addressed, I think talk about WiFi's death is a bit premature...
I pay about US$0.20 per Megabyte here in Pakistan. For that I get HSPDA and, so long as I'm in a city, it work well, reliable and fast.
When I go home to Ireland, I put an Irish prepaid SIM card in my phone. I asked them (wisely) how much their 3G service costs. They told me it was Euro10.00 PER MEGABYTE. Needless to say, I disabled all the data functions on my Windows Mobile smartphone.
Why the phenomenal difference between the two data tariffs? Nobody could tell me. Some media stories surrounding the announcement by the European Union that they were looking at Roaming charges suggested that the high price of data services cross-subsidises lower voice and SMS costs. In any properly regulated telecoms market, that sort of cross-subsidy should be banned. It is no longer business customers who want data services - telcos who stack it high and sell it cheap will gain market share and should smell the coffee.
In fairness, a post-paid data-only 3G subscription is available in Ireland for Euro50 (for the dongle) and Euro15 per month (that will increase after three months and the service is capped at 5Gb per month). This is more reasonable. But 10 per day? No way Jose...
The reason for that is that the European networks consist of many local operators. Vodafone [wikipedia.org], for example, only owns networks in roughly half of Europe, and they're a huge operator. Most operators are tiny in comparison, which is the reason they are forced to rent networks from other operators when their users are roaming. Hence, the large roaming fees that go to the operator who owns the network you are roaming in.
I do agree that it's very expensive, but I don't think regulating it will fix anything. That
consider many wi-fi spots are free, and the most expensive are $29 (15E) per MONTH these guys are on crack. Even ATT is giving away wi-fi access to their paying DSL customers of premium packages.
What they really mean is that Google's 700Mhz gambit will make paying more than $15 per month for a wireless device that's only a phone, or only Wi-fi go away... cleared that up!
Some other countries, are *far* better. China, for example, never charges for wifi - well, I've never found a place that charges. Even Starbucks has it for free. SPR Coffee. Pacific Coffee. All free - not even a home page or login. Just fire it up and go - like at home (probably very similar equipment and service).
I use a free product called Devicescape [devicescape.com] where you can add hotspots and other wifi access points; it'll create a single fake access point on your device and automatically switch between the real ones when it finds them. Works pretty well on my Nokia E90. I added 'linksys' and a few other common SSIDs and it gets my email while I'm walking down the street, or on a bus:)
for christs sake, the wendy's in this podunk town of 11,000 offers free wifi. im not about to consider buying a mobile internet card.
No kidding. I just called Verizon about a corporate cell phone plan for one of my clients. They were quoting $1,000 for 10 lines with 1,000 minutes per phone, and no extra services. Data cards were $55/mo for 2 GB service plus something ungodly like $0.45/MB after you hit the 2 GB cap. And if you wanted text messaging it was just under $20/month/phone...and that only go
"Too bad there isn't a cool open linux-based handset combined with a cheap radio running on a linux-powered box that could be used as a cell 'hotspot'...then you could start deploying them all over the place in a mesh and charge a flat monthly fee for unlimited in-network calls and a small per-minute fee for off-network calls which can be routed through some VoIP provider to POTS numbers..." Enter google android. And we are going to make this cellphone company punks run like HELL for their money. The net has
Currently I am paying HK$488, or about USD 62 per month on mobile broadband, for laptop use. That is on a 3G (CDMS/HSPCA) network. Works quite OK but the network is not very well covering.
And if you are happy with GPRS, then you can get unlimited mobile Internet for as little as $128 per month (USD 16,40).
International roaming is also worked on; HK carriers offer unlimited China data roaming for about USD 120 per month.
And of course WiFi hotspots remain cheaper, just like phone booths are/were cheaper th
If I sit down at a place and have the option to either A.) Connect to a free wireless hub, or B.) Pay exorbitant amounts to connect my phone to my computer and connect at a horrible speed, which one am I going to choose?
The correlation is this: Ericsson are a dealer in mobile internet devices. It is in their interest for people to move to mobile internet devices as people who buy mobile internet devices might by an Ericsson one. Ericsson don't do wifi hotspots, so there is no way using wifi hotspots puts money from your wallet into Ericsson's pocket. This displeases Ericsson, so they will now crow from the rooftops that wifi hotspots are dead, in a bid to drum up business for their absurdly-tariffed mobile internet devices.
Does anybody seriously listen when companies come out with this sort of self-serving 'analyses'? Do they think these companies make these statements out of the goodness of their hearts? If one person switches to a mobile internet device because of this, they're an idiot. Doublly so if they buy an Ericsson.
While that is true, it is also true that the situation in Europe is very different from the US. Western European countries have large built out mostly under-used 3G networks so carriers offer fairly cheap access for mobile broadband. 7 MBit for 19/month is not that bad. And at least in Sweden, free wifi hotspots isn't that common. The fee at hotels is about 20/week and on the train it is 10 for a 5 hour ride. Both wifi and mobile operators are trying to screw you so you just have to roll with the one that manages to screw you the least.
And at least in Sweden, free wifi hotspots isn't that common. The fee at hotels is about 20/week and on the train it is 10 for a 5 hour ride.
Why is this? Doesn't seem to make economic sense, especially for the hotels.
Here in the US the situation is pretty simple. The only people who charge are large established businesses with little competition. Starbucks charges because they have a large customer base. Every other coffee shop in town gives it away for free as an incentive to visit their location. Same thing with many hotels. Holiday Inn offers free wifi. I know, I borrowed it once (and my brother in law stays in a lot of Holiday
What you don't understand is that Johan lives in Sweden, here mobile broadband has really taken off lately. Our operators is offering very reasonable, almost flat rate, high speed mobile broadband deals. For 30 $/month you get about 5-10 GB traffic/month, at up to 7.2 mbit/s download speed and 0.4 mbit/s upload. Many here cut their old land-based broadband and just use mobile. It really makes no sense to hunt for silly hotspots, when i can use my regular broadband where ever i wish to go, with no extra charge. So from a Swedish perspective, what he says is rather obvious. It is just a matter of time until this applies to the US and the rest of the world as well.
As soon as I can get cellular wifi for free, then and ONLY THEN will wifi hotspots go away. Until then the entire article is nothing but uneducated posturing by a company that has zero clue as to how the public actually uses the internet.
Cellular modems are typically very slow unless you buy the high speed broadband type. And that's $50.00 a month for limited use. Even when I have my cellular modem with me I still use public wifi when it's available. It's faster, not capped with hidden transfer caps, and honestly smoother.
Granted my only experience is with Verizon's and AT&T's offering. but wifi hot spots are here to stay.
Places that DON'T have free wifi are finding themselves with a very easy decision: either get with the times, or lose business.
It is assumed that a coffee shop will have wifi, seeing it at a restaurant is becoming more and more commonplace, and seeing it at an airport is starting to be expected.
Does he mean non FREE wifi?
This is something that has always baffled me. A really fast cable connection costs about 50 bucks a month (at least thats what I pay for 8down 2up in Phoenix)....a wireless AP costs anywhere from $20-100 depending on how much bullshit you eat from the idiot working at best buy. How can you not justify a $50 a month expense, and a $50 initial cost?
I have free wifi in my videostore and to generate a little extra money I put a few RV spaces on the lot behind the store. I offer my RV customers free wifi and many of them are here because I have it and other places don't. I don't keep my store computer on line except when I use it and it's on a different network anyway. The outdoor access point is a commercial unit that cost me about $200. All I have available is 1.5Mb DSL, but it works out OK. people visiting town will come by and get their email and sometimes even spend money here.
Even the $50 cheap wireless routers can isolate the wireless connections from the wired ports, or you get a second cheap wireless router for your customers, plug your business wireless (or wired) router/firewall/NAT into one of the ports on that, and you're isolated.
Uh, when exactly did mobile broadband become free? Will the shareholders of these companies allow them to give away internet connectivity. I think not. Right here I already have free municipal wifi so why would I want to pay for anything if I am just a casual surfer, which most people are? Of course the Bittorent, ftp, and other higher BW users are going to need something better than municipal wifi or hotspots. But its yet to be seen whether the cell phone carriers can deliver the goods cheaper than cable or DSL.
Yes, you could pay out the nose for a 200k mobile broadband account (on a good day) or you could pop in to your local sandwich shop for free and use their broadband (which might be tied into a 5/2 Mbps cable modem). Hmmm...
I have no doubt that someday, everyone will have full wireless internet access from nearly everywhere. But I suspect that is many years, maybe decades, off.
Partly that's due to infrastructure. This sort of thing seems to quickly spread to the densist 10% of population centers, then take years to roll out to the remaining 90% of the nation.
But I also have a strong sense of skepticism that they will make the service adequate. I expect that they will use the cell-phone model; it will be an expensive,
I'd like to ask this guy how much money he makes. I am quite happy with my salary and "simple 10 euros a day" seems like a total ripoff to me. If it were maybe 1 euro a day I think it might be fair.
Isn't it interesting just how far out of touch from reality he is? I mean, even after you allow for the self-serving corporate shill factor, he's still way, way off anything that sane people are going to want. That can be dangerous for a senior corporate officer, even in marketing. It may be his job to lie, but I suspect that the shareholders would like to think he knew roughly where the bounds of reality lay.
You know what I think he's doing? I think he's extrapolating from the ridiculous margin the carriers make on SMS messages, and using that to calculate bandwidth charges. He thinks "they pay these rates for SMS, so they pay for connectivity".
Of course, if too many people make that particular connection, it could end up having the opposite effect to the one he wants.
Doesn't that kind of bloated figure screw up his own argument that wifi is irrelevant? Was that a typo? In the long run when the price is right --and that price will have to be a lot lower than ten bucks a day-- it's quite obvious that wifi will be overtaken by other wireless technologies with wider range. But it's also obvious that there are going to be dozens of standards for different regions of the world for probably another decade or so. On an international scale, telecoms, much like electrical utilities, don't like cooperation because they make money by charging to overcome incompatibilities. Quite to the contrary, there are many cases where telecoms make their money by staying as inefficient as they can possibly justify.
Hmmmm.... 10€/day versus 0€/day.... It's probably just me, but I'm going for the 0€/day option. Come on, even if you're abroad and get 2h of "free internet" at starbucks with a coffee for 2.5€, you have more than enough to stay in touch. Heck, my city has been "hotspotted [hotcity.lu]". For the moment it's 100% free....
Hot-spots are low-latency, cheap to set up and maintain and there are actually quite a number you can use for free. The access device is also cheap and typically computer-integrated, even in low-end laptops. The mobile phone network, in contrast, has high-latency, is expensive to operate, typically expensive to customers and the access device can easily be more expensive than a lower-end laptop.
This guy is just predicting that he will get more important without any factual basis.
especially in the form that is available now in most places. the problem with hotspots is their accidental availability -- you can never be sure that you will end near one when you need it, so rebuilding your "mobile internet experience" around them is pretty stupid. that being said, even when you know you can't rely on them, they can be a nice surprise. that's how i am treating the occasional hotspot -- as a convenience, sometime nice, and (very rarely) helpful in emergencies. that is as much i can say about hotspots.
now, the issue of mobile connectivity is a different matter altogether. there is only one huge reason we still can't have reasonable mobile connectivity. it is because the mobile carriers are hellbent on not letting their networks 'decay' into something similar to the open internet, where they'll have to make money from network connectivity, and probably lose out on all their stupid "markup" services that are pushed onto the mobile users -- ridiculous "ringtone" downloads, ridiculous "official sites" and what not. once mobile connectivity becomes ubiquituous, all those "business models" will go, and most likely on day zero.
until the governments (or, eventually, the invisible hand) turn the mobile services oligopolies into something more competitive, changes will be coming at the usual glacial speed.
This is a nice workaround when you're allowed to have it -- and it illustrates my point. Not only is the technology needed for cheap and convenient mobile access available, there is even more than one way to do it. And still, there are virtually no providers that have reasonably and _understandably_ priced mobile plans (voice + data), adequate coverage and open devices. Instead, we have phones packed with shit we don't need. I have integrated walkman that allows me to buy any music the phone company believes
Most notebook computers come with WiFi built in, and the hotspots are free or low cost plus operate in places where other forms of connection may not be readily available (except apparently to the hotspots' hub). Not the case with cellular data service, where one needs a modem and a data plan, plus the service will not work everywhere (despite what certain TV ads broadcasting currently say), plus costs $50 a month for service. Free/ish and 'there' verses home broadband cost and extra equipment? Hmm.
Additionally, those coffeehouses (and ferries, and restaurants, and so forth) stand to either do good by doing well -- wouldn't you frequent a business where you can get online free? -- or make enough coin to cover the service and then some. Cellular modeming only profits the telephone company. So WiFi is only a dying breed (wishful thinking) in the cellular providers' eyes, same as vinyl records and cassettes went away only because the industry said they were passe, not the consumers.
"Carriers will need to work together."
Yeah, like that is going to happen. It took an act of Congress in the US to get our phone numbers portable. Do people really think that this sort of cooperation just magically happens?
A quick check says that 10 euros is US$15. Let's look at some interesting metrics.
* My 10 meg cable is $50/month or so * My rent is $645/month * My car payment is $420/month * Dinner and a good beer at the pub is about $15-20 * This service would cost $450/month
So, "internet freedom" would cost 2/3rds of a month of rent, as much as eating dinner out almost every day, nine times what my statically located service is (where I spend most of my time), and would give me little benefit compared to making a car payment.
I think "just 10 euros" are much better spent on practical things.
Mobile carriers are going to provide the same 100Mbps performance as 802.11n, at 50 times the range, with many more expected users on one cell, reasonable send speed and good battery life? I find this new technology fascinating. Perhaps I should subscribe to their newsletter.
When mobile internet is cheap enough so that all locals who want wireless internet access will have a wireless mobile plan, then we (providers) will be able to leach off 10 euros a day from tourists, since coffee shops will not have wireless internet then - keeping it only for the tourists doesn't make sense.
He can take his ten euros, his hardware sales, his subscriptions, and self-fornicate with them.
What an abnormally stupid thing for even a marketing guy to say. It seems to thread together the common hubris among carriers, telcos, and their equipment providers. Quick-- somebody tell them about the lipfart problem before it's too late. I actually like Sony Ericsson phones (they last longer) over Moto, LG, and the iGroan.
Let's see, I pay 10 euros a month for unlimited (tethering allowed, no hidden bandwidth cap) 3G access on my phone here in Europe. Ok, it's only full UMTS, not full HSPA, but it gets the job done when I'm not on a 8-24 mbit line at home or work. That's 30 times cheaper than 10 euro's a day. What a strange 'simple' figure is that anyway, who spends 10 euros a day on mobile internet?
As for the wifi hotspots, well to be honest I havent encountered many of them and I do live in a big city, but I haven't really searched for them either. I know the university and two or three of my favourite bars have them (never see people with laptops in there, but I imagine it's nice for others who have wifi enabled phones but don't have a data plan). Unsecured access points are everywhere.
Roaming are awful though, especially here in Europe. You go somewhere near the border, you get the same provider but from a different country and suddenly you have to get a second mortgage to google. Glad the EU is looking into it.
That being said, if you are waiting around somewhere and you need internet where your data plan isn't 'valid' (or you don't have one), you can make a wifi hotspot anywhere if you can find somebody with a phone and a data plan with WMWifiRouter [wmwifirouter.com] or JoikuSpot [joikuspot.com] softwares, depending on the type of phone they have.
Pffff.... Japan sets the bar when it comes to cellphones. Secondarily, Nokia's Europe, but primarily, next-gen mobility can be seen in japan (and they have mobile broadband fast like hell and have had it for enough years for it to be mainstream and CHEAP).
The US protects their phone companies like if they were the baby jesus or even (GASP) an airline and you (and myself, a third class non-us citizen), just sit down and enjoy our lunch, paying absurd comunications tarifs arbitrarily set by government sanction
no more starbucks wireless (Score:3, Funny)
Re:no more starbucks wireless (Score:5, Funny)
Customer: Could I have small coffee
Server: That would be a mezzo, sir
Customer: what the f*ck? mezzo is medium, piccolo is small
Server: sir mezzo means small
Customer: never mind, I'll a medium coffe
Server: That would be a grande, sir
Customer: Whatever, just give me a medium coffee that is actually a small.
foo-foo coffees and no grasp of language.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I hate that too. "Grande" means big in Spanish, so as a native speaker it just sounds wrong to me and when I go I ask for a "medium-sized whathaveyou" and they ALWAYS try to 'correct' me. I usually politely reply that I refuse to to use their marketspeak and I point to the medium-size display glass that they usually have and repeat my request. I'm polite 'cuz it's their job, but I really hate that stupid naming convention.
I always leave comments to that effect with different pseudonyms every time I go to
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
My brother is a bigshot in the food service industry. He's very good at what he does. One day I mentioned to him that I'd ordered a medium soft drink at a fast food restaurant and it turned out to be 32 ounces -- as much soda as we used to order for the entire family when we were kids. According to him, this is a way to maximize sales. Peopl
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Careful with that though, many companies realize people do that - that's why they keep making really huge burgers (and drinks).
So the big burgers start becoming middle.
And _your_ middle starts becoming big
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That is another place that gets it so wrong. First time I looked at a menu in the states I saw "entrees", and thought to myself that the 1/2 lb steak was a bit much for a starter, though it turns out it was the main course. Speaking French, where the orginal version comes from "entrée" means starter.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It turned out to be a small cardboard (!) cup of disgusting coffee. Now I know why everyone else buys coffee-flavoured milk in those places.
Simple, right... (Score:5, Funny)
Badly written summary (Score:3, Informative)
The ten euros a day figure is for international roaming, the most expensive kind of access.
The article IS dumb, but it's not as dumb as the summary makes it sound.
Re:Badly written summary (Score:4, Interesting)
I live in the US and pay Sprint about $60/month for unlimited, nationwide access to their EVDO network. I use a Novatel Wireless S720 PC Card (EVDO Rev. A) card and reliably get about 750-1250 kbit connections (sometimes, it's as good as 2-3 mbit/sec). Except for the monthly price, Sprint's abysmal customer service, and my questions about mechanical reliability of both the PC Card connector (lots of insertion/removal) and my specific card's design, I wouldn't want to give it up. Overall, the service is useful.
However, I still look for Wi-Fi spots for two main reasons:
1) If I don't have my power adapter with me, my laptop's runtime on batteries is shortened around 30-50% with the use of the EVDO card. If I suddenly get a ton of last minute work to do, I won't even bother firing up the Sprint card without the power adapter.
2) Sometimes, it's hard to beat a fast WiFi connection. I generally don't need more bandwidth than the Sprint card provides on average, but several hotspots I go to have ponied up the extra money to support a solid Internet connection (4-7 mbit down).
Until these are addressed, I think talk about WiFi's death is a bit premature...
Parent
Re:Simple, right... (Score:5, Insightful)
When I go home to Ireland, I put an Irish prepaid SIM card in my phone. I asked them (wisely) how much their 3G service costs. They told me it was Euro10.00 PER MEGABYTE. Needless to say, I disabled all the data functions on my Windows Mobile smartphone.
Why the phenomenal difference between the two data tariffs? Nobody could tell me. Some media stories surrounding the announcement by the European Union that they were looking at Roaming charges suggested that the high price of data services cross-subsidises lower voice and SMS costs. In any properly regulated telecoms market, that sort of cross-subsidy should be banned. It is no longer business customers who want data services - telcos who stack it high and sell it cheap will gain market share and should smell the coffee.
In fairness, a post-paid data-only 3G subscription is available in Ireland for Euro50 (for the dongle) and Euro15 per month (that will increase after three months and the service is capped at 5Gb per month). This is more reasonable. But 10 per day? No way Jose...
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I do agree that it's very expensive, but I don't think regulating it will fix anything. That
Simple yes, cheap no (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure it's simple, but it's not cheap.
Re:Simple yes, cheap no (Score:5, Informative)
What they really mean is that Google's 700Mhz gambit will make paying more than $15 per month for a wireless device that's only a phone, or only Wi-fi go away... cleared that up!
Parent
Re:Simple yes, cheap no (Score:4, Interesting)
Some other countries, are *far* better. China, for example, never charges for wifi - well, I've never found a place that charges. Even Starbucks has it for free. SPR Coffee. Pacific Coffee. All free - not even a home page or login. Just fire it up and go - like at home (probably very similar equipment and service).
I use a free product called Devicescape [devicescape.com] where you can add hotspots and other wifi access points; it'll create a single fake access point on your device and automatically switch between the real ones when it finds them. Works pretty well on my Nokia E90. I added 'linksys' and a few other common SSIDs and it gets my email while I'm walking down the street, or on a bus
But, yes, that certainly isn't cheap.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
No kidding. I just called Verizon about a corporate cell phone plan for one of my clients. They were quoting $1,000 for 10 lines with 1,000 minutes per phone, and no extra services. Data cards were $55/mo for 2 GB service plus something ungodly like $0.45/MB after you hit the 2 GB cap. And if you wanted text messaging it was just under $20/month/phone...and that only go
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Enter google android. And we are going to make this cellphone company punks run like HELL for their money. The net has
Yep (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Currently I am paying HK$488, or about USD 62 per month on mobile broadband, for laptop use. That is on a 3G (CDMS/HSPCA) network. Works quite OK but the network is not very well covering.
And if you are happy with GPRS, then you can get unlimited mobile Internet for as little as $128 per month (USD 16,40).
International roaming is also worked on; HK carriers offer unlimited China data roaming for about USD 120 per month.
And of course WiFi hotspots remain cheaper, just like phone booths are/were cheaper th
I fail to see the correlation. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait, don't tell me, I can figure this one out...
Re:I fail to see the correlation. (Score:5, Insightful)
Does anybody seriously listen when companies come out with this sort of self-serving 'analyses'? Do they think these companies make these statements out of the goodness of their hearts? If one person switches to a mobile internet device because of this, they're an idiot. Doublly so if they buy an Ericsson.
(Posted from a wifi hotspot).
Parent
Re:I fail to see the correlation. (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And at least in Sweden, free wifi hotspots isn't that common. The fee at hotels is about 20/week and on the train it is 10 for a 5 hour ride.
Why is this? Doesn't seem to make economic sense, especially for the hotels.
Here in the US the situation is pretty simple. The only people who charge are large established businesses with little competition. Starbucks charges because they have a large customer base. Every other coffee shop in town gives it away for free as an incentive to visit their location. Same thing with many hotels. Holiday Inn offers free wifi. I know, I borrowed it once (and my brother in law stays in a lot of Holiday
Re:I fail to see the correlation. (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Amazing how companies are unrealistic. (Score:5, Insightful)
Cellular modems are typically very slow unless you buy the high speed broadband type. And that's $50.00 a month for limited use. Even when I have my cellular modem with me I still use public wifi when it's available. It's faster, not capped with hidden transfer caps, and honestly smoother.
Granted my only experience is with Verizon's and AT&T's offering. but wifi hot spots are here to stay.
Quite the opposite (Score:5, Insightful)
either get with the times, or lose business.
It is assumed that a coffee shop will have wifi, seeing it at a restaurant is becoming more and more commonplace, and seeing it at an airport is starting to be expected.
Does he mean non FREE wifi?
This is something that has always baffled me. A really fast cable connection costs about 50 bucks a month (at least thats what I pay for 8down 2up in Phoenix)....a wireless AP costs anywhere from $20-100 depending on how much bullshit you eat from the idiot working at best buy.
How can you not justify a $50 a month expense, and a $50 initial cost?
Re:Quite the opposite (Score:5, Informative)
people visiting town will come by and get their email and sometimes even spend money here.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Even the $50 cheap wireless routers can isolate the wireless connections from the wired ports, or you get a second cheap wireless router for your customers, plug your business wireless (or wired) router/firewall/NAT into one of the ports on that, and you're isolated.
They are in fantasy land (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I highly recommend your neighbour's flat.
And pigs will fly out of my butt (Score:4, Funny)
Not for years. (Score:2)
Partly that's due to infrastructure. This sort of thing seems to quickly spread to the densist 10% of population centers, then take years to roll out to the remaining 90% of the nation.
But I also have a strong sense of skepticism that they will make the service adequate. I expect that they will use the cell-phone model; it will be an expensive,
What is planet is this guy from? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What is planet is this guy from? (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't it interesting just how far out of touch from reality he is? I mean, even after you allow for the self-serving corporate shill factor, he's still way, way off anything that sane people are going to want. That can be dangerous for a senior corporate officer, even in marketing. It may be his job to lie, but I suspect that the shareholders would like to think he knew roughly where the bounds of reality lay.
You know what I think he's doing? I think he's extrapolating from the ridiculous margin the carriers make on SMS messages, and using that to calculate bandwidth charges. He thinks "they pay these rates for SMS, so they pay for connectivity".
Of course, if too many people make that particular connection, it could end up having the opposite effect to the one he wants.
Parent
Ten euros a day? (Score:4, Insightful)
Hmmmm (Score:3, Informative)
Marketing Dude says his product is hot shit! (Score:2, Insightful)
Typical Marketing BS (Score:4, Insightful)
This guy is just predicting that he will get more important without any factual basis.
they have always been irrelevant, (Score:5, Insightful)
now, the issue of mobile connectivity is a different matter altogether. there is only one huge reason we still can't have reasonable mobile connectivity. it is because the mobile carriers are hellbent on not letting their networks 'decay' into something similar to the open internet, where they'll have to make money from network connectivity, and probably lose out on all their stupid "markup" services that are pushed onto the mobile users -- ridiculous "ringtone" downloads, ridiculous "official sites" and what not. once mobile connectivity becomes ubiquituous, all those "business models" will go, and most likely on day zero.
until the governments (or, eventually, the invisible hand) turn the mobile services oligopolies into something more competitive, changes will be coming at the usual glacial speed.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Instead, we have phones packed with shit we don't need. I have integrated walkman that allows me to buy any music the phone company believes
Only in that guy's microcosm (Score:4, Insightful)
Additionally, those coffeehouses (and ferries, and restaurants, and so forth) stand to either do good by doing well -- wouldn't you frequent a business where you can get online free? -- or make enough coin to cover the service and then some. Cellular modeming only profits the telephone company. So WiFi is only a dying breed (wishful thinking) in the cellular providers' eyes, same as vinyl records and cassettes went away only because the industry said they were passe, not the consumers.
Telco Business Plan (Score:5, Insightful)
2. Charge high fees to your (trapped) customers.
3. Profit!
Free (or cheap) Wifi has to be eliminated as part of step #1.
Premises (Score:5, Insightful)
"Just 10 euros" (Score:5, Insightful)
* My 10 meg cable is $50/month or so
* My rent is $645/month
* My car payment is $420/month
* Dinner and a good beer at the pub is about $15-20
* This service would cost $450/month
So, "internet freedom" would cost 2/3rds of a month of rent, as much as eating dinner out almost every day, nine times what my statically located service is (where I spend most of my time), and would give me little benefit compared to making a car payment.
I think "just 10 euros" are much better spent on practical things.
Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
I think he meant to say this (Score:3, Insightful)
then we (providers) will be able to leach off 10 euros a day from tourists, since coffee shops will not have wireless internet then -
keeping it only for the tourists doesn't make sense.
as if.
I think his leg is getting wet..... (Score:4, Insightful)
What an abnormally stupid thing for even a marketing guy to say. It seems to thread together the common hubris among carriers, telcos, and their equipment providers. Quick-- somebody tell them about the lipfart problem before it's too late. I actually like Sony Ericsson phones (they last longer) over Moto, LG, and the iGroan.
Only 30x more expensive... (Score:4, Informative)
Let's see, I pay 10 euros a month for unlimited (tethering allowed, no hidden bandwidth cap) 3G access on my phone here in Europe. Ok, it's only full UMTS, not full HSPA, but it gets the job done when I'm not on a 8-24 mbit line at home or work. That's 30 times cheaper than 10 euro's a day. What a strange 'simple' figure is that anyway, who spends 10 euros a day on mobile internet?
As for the wifi hotspots, well to be honest I havent encountered many of them and I do live in a big city, but I haven't really searched for them either. I know the university and two or three of my favourite bars have them (never see people with laptops in there, but I imagine it's nice for others who have wifi enabled phones but don't have a data plan). Unsecured access points are everywhere.
Roaming are awful though, especially here in Europe. You go somewhere near the border, you get the same provider but from a different country and suddenly you have to get a second mortgage to google. Glad the EU is looking into it.
That being said, if you are waiting around somewhere and you need internet where your data plan isn't 'valid' (or you don't have one), you can make a wifi hotspot anywhere if you can find somebody with a phone and a data plan with WMWifiRouter [wmwifirouter.com] or JoikuSpot [joikuspot.com] softwares, depending on the type of phone they have.
This just in (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Japan sets the bar when it comes to cellphones. Secondarily, Nokia's Europe, but primarily, next-gen mobility can be seen in japan (and they have mobile broadband fast like hell and have had it for enough years for it to be mainstream and CHEAP).
The US protects their phone companies like if they were the baby jesus or even (GASP) an airline and you (and myself, a third class non-us citizen), just sit down and enjoy our lunch, paying absurd comunications tarifs arbitrarily set by government sanction