Hacking Asus EEE 150
An anonymous reader writes "Torsten Lyngaas has published a set of instructions with photographs on his personal wiki that describe the steps he took to install $450 worth of extra hardware, including a GPS receiver, an FM transmitter, Bluetooth, extra USB ports, 802.11n, and an extra 4GB flash storage drive."
Honest question (Score:5, Interesting)
For example...say I wanted to upgrade the video card in my old laptop (provided it wasn't one built into the motherboard)...why isn't there a universal way of doing this, similar to how it is done on a desktop? Cost?
Re:Honest question (Score:5, Insightful)
And who'd buy a new laptop then?
Re:Honest question (Score:4, Interesting)
A laptop that is easy to upgrade is worth more to the consumer, so you could sell it for more by pointing out you won't need to buy another laptop. Why doesn't it happen ? In a way it does, there are laptop manufacturers that produce these kinds, but they are not really popular, they're a bit bloated etc.
I think laptops are going to diverge between a desktop replacement that you can easily carry - transportables, and those will come with standardized hardware, and ultra-portables where people won't care about the upgradability enough to sacrifice weight or volume.
But the point is, the argument from planned obsolescence works only if the consumer is unable to think mid-long term (which is different from *caring about long term*). Used car sell for much less than new cars so they seem to have that ability.
Re:Honest question (Score:5, Insightful)
Notebook designers can still make their own power-bricks, but the plug and voltage should be standardized. Hey, VGA and USB are also common accross the industry, so why not the power as well.
Same with batteries. Why do I have AAA / AA / C / D cells for my transistor radios and flashlights, but not the same thing for my laptop. Everex and Mallory should be ones where you buy your battery from. Laptops is now a mature product and the time is over where customized batteries were needed because of the constraints.
I know of course why this doesn't happen, it's all about profit. But because it all ends up in our landfills, this is something where IMHO governments should step in and regulate. If they can regulate the CO2 emissions of my car, they should also be allowed to take on this.
Re:Honest question (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Peripheral support with standard connectors has been a staple of PC computing for a very long time. Before laptops even came out, computers had serial ports, and it made sense (when creating laptops) to provide one. However batteries are somewhat unique to portable computers, and it makes sense to use a proprietary one to discourage third-party competition.
Re:Honest question (Score:3, Informative)
What isn't standardized about batteries and power bricks?
I've got 3 power bricks from different laptops, and they're all almost identical (+/- 1V DC) and power my current laptops just fine. There are a few manufacturers that insist on funky connectors from time to time, but clearly you're happily buying from them despite this, so it must not matter to you as much as you say it does, otherwise you'd only buy the standard units.
You might notice that you DON'T have Li-Ion AAA/AA/C/D cells... They're too tricky to just have loose cells, and hope users don't do anything stupid with them.
And laptops batteries ARE pretty well standardized, too, though not like you are thinking... If you crack open the casing on two different laptop batteries, you'll see that, though they may be in a different arrangement, and possibly a different number of them, the cells are both physically and electronically identical (give or take a few mAHs depending on age). You can't just swap batteries between laptops, as form factors differ, but if you could, you'd find that feature to be less than desirable, anyhow. It does allow, however, for numerous 3rd parties to compete easily for sales of OEM and after-market batteries, cheaply.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
O RLY? [google.com]
Re:Honest question (Score:2, Informative)
There are several important differences. The practical difference between Lithium batteries and Lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries is that most Lithium batteries are not rechargeable but Li-ion batteries are rechargeable. From a chemical standpoint Lithium batteries use lithium in its pure metallic form. Li-ion batteries use lithium compounds which are much more stable than the elemental lithium used in lithium batteries. A lithium battery should never be recharged while lithium-ion batteries are designed to be recharged hundreds of times.
Lithium ion batteries are not available in standard cells sizes (AA, C and D) like lithium batteries are.
This post was shamelessly ripped from here. [greenbatteries.com]
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
It's not 1.5V, but...
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1336 [batteryspace.com]
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
It's not 1.5V, it's not in some standard device size, and not sold over the counter at retail stores. That is sold specifically for experts and smaller companies designing and making their own battery packs. You can't use it in ANYTHING in it's current form.
If you look hard enough, you can find all manner of dangerous things online that are not for, and would NEVER be sold to average consumers.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
"Lithium" and "Lithium Ion" are completely and totally different things. Note those "Lithium" batteries are disposable, and NOT rechargeable.
Power bricks (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Honest question (Score:4, Insightful)
There was a standard, briefly, in the mid-90's. Pushed by Duracell, I believe (who obviously wanted to sell laptop batteries), and was used in a few laptops (Toshiba?). Alas, it died mostly because it was "Yet another battery" and very few people used it. Plus, since the battery determined the formfactor, it was somewhat constraining in that all laptops now had a fixed minimum size in two directions (the last one isn't very constraining, since you need the rest of the laptop hardware). Of course, it probably lasted a few years, then people realized that they either didn't bother buying extra batteries, or if they did, it sat on the shelf, and by the time they needed it, it was as bad as their current one (such is the life of Li-Ion/LiPo batteries - their life decreases as they get older - so if you bought an extra battery when you bought the laptop, in 2 years, they both will hold very similar capacities if treated well).
Perhaps. BUt as we see with desktops - people don't upgrade their computers much. Sure they may stick in another hard disk or change the memory, but that's about all. Video cards, other accessories are added way less often nowadays (especially since everything's gone USB or Firewire), so upgradability is less of a concern now than it was. Laptops offer portability and enough power, and with all the external hard drives, capture cards, etc. etc. etc., all the functionality that was once in a desktop without having to install cards and all that.
A modern laptop is designed to upgradable within a limited range of parts (see the "customize" button on every manufacturer's page? They just pop in different parts), which for most people is OK. Incremental upgrades are done less and less these days because it's not worth it.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Magsafe has always seemed a little pointless to me, how often do you see a laptop with only the power cable plugged in?
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Mice, USB, FW, video and whatnot cables stay on the desktop. I don't know about you but I don't usually walk on my desk.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Re:Honest question (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Honest question (Score:3, Insightful)
What would I gain from being able to replace components in an ad-hoc fashion?
Re:Honest question (Score:5, Insightful)
Most laptops are relatively easy to upgrade. That is, for the things that are important: HD and RAM. Some even allow you to upgrade the optical drive without too much trouble. Might have to have someone with some skill do the work, but it isn't impossible. Beyond that, what would you upgrade? CPU? Yeah right, CPU sockets change on a weekly basis. Even on a desktop, your motherboard is probably going to be obsolete by the time you want to make an upgrade. You'll need a new one. And with that, all new RAM. So what on a laptop is really good long term? The GPU? I suppose you could have a standard slot for that, but it would add to the bulk. The display? The keyboard? Certainly not the battery.
-matthew
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
But they are upgradable. So what's the problem?
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Probably the same people who buy brand new Dell desktops rather than upgrade anything more complex than RAM or a hard drive.
-matthew
dishonest question (Score:2)
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
People have different needs and wants with desktops and you can build any way you want. Full atx down to itx, 15in screen, 21in, etc. Why not the same options with notebooks?
Re:Honest question (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Honest question (Score:3, Interesting)
Why not have say, the itx version of the laptop body which has no optics and then the atx version which has room for all the bells and whistles, with a few options in between? I'm not saying a one-size fits all size laptop body.
There are all different sized desktop cases, why not a selection of like 5 or so different laptop body sizes? Every size has more or less room, size, options, etc.? Then you pick and choose your parts, screen size and do what you want?
Re:Honest question (Score:5, Insightful)
Because then you couldn't get a really, really thin laptop?
Re:Honest question (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Well, it won't last forever. (I may underestimate the power of rich people wanting more money). Optical interconnects will eventually evolve to the point where components can be swapped by simply unplugging and replugging, or perhaps components could communicate by simply "seeing" each other and transmitting data via light. Any number of factors will shrink CPUs and storage and RAM. We will see a standard laptop or table case in the next ten years or so, I feel.
Re:Honest question (Score:3, Insightful)
I, however, will never underestimate the ability of People With A Cause to see conspiracies.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
And you dismissing conspiracies in general. Maybe you have seen some debunked? So? Maybe you find other possible explanations? So? Conspiracies are part of history, is there a reason why they should all have stopped now?
Of course what I call a conspiracy might be just convergence of interest. Fine, but the net effect is the same. The effect is that WE are too easy to manipulate. We are naive when it comes to look at the world.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Re:Honest question (Score:5, Insightful)
I've dreamed of this for a long time. Everything just plugs into "the bus", by mating lenses, GND and +5V rails. Plus, optical interconnects have just silly amounts of bandwidth at their disposal, all interference free. The major problem is having a cheap-but-good UART of sorts that can drink from that firehose.
The neat thing about this is that your tech problems then devolve into rather trival territory:
- "Don't plug that into slot 5, the lens is scratched."
- "I can't use that, I need a few more mA on my power supply, plus my bus manager has feckity power management."
- "I had a device conflict since that network adapter was factory preset to 'blue' - I switched it to 'red' and off I went."
Anyway, you're right: this'll be a huge boon for portables. Removing the sheer number of metal-to-metal contacts on devices would be a huge step towards proper miniaturization of a lot of devices. You may also see some broad compatibility between desktops, laptops, palmtops and cellphones, depending on the level of miniaturization involved.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
I don't have the hardware chops, but someday, I'd love to have the cash to work on something like that. I'll carry this little tidbit with me until the day I do.
Really, I look at it this way: a fully capable device with the absolute minimum number of external connections (contacts, buttons, etc) is the lowest possible point on the manufacturing vs use curve. The problem, is that it's not the current local minimum (mini-pci, firewire, SATA, depeding on your point of view), so it'll take some effort to get there, since you have to climb out of that valley. In the end, we'll have this - networking tech is already headed in this direction.
But yea, a wiki might be cool. Thanks, I'll consider it.
How about that. I like me some good trek-tech.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Note too that laptop motherboard chipsets tend to have the most integrated peripherals, compared to desktops - integrated video, LAN, ports, etc. simply because of the need to save space.
Re:Honest question (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Honest question (Score:3, Insightful)
Just look at the amount of empty space inside the average tower PC. You can't add that much upgrade flexibility to a laptop without ballooning its size.
Laptops are optimized for low size and weight. Desktops are optimized for upgrade flexibility. This naturally leads to two distinctly different products. Even hard drives and memory, which you can usually upgrade on a laptop, use different form factors in a laptop.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Re:Honest question (Score:1)
That's pretty much everything, not bad! The trouble is all these sockets and expansion slots and connectors add to the size and weight so smaller laptops are unlikely to use them.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Why do laptops not have any kind of universal form factor similar to desktops?
Because the size, shape, weight, etc of a laptop matters in a laptop, and it doesn't matter terribly much in a desktop. Compatibility and flexibility matters more in desktop design, as it allows manufacturers to pick and choose based upon need and cost without having to re-design everything.
A laptop is packed so tight, that the space considerations are a lot different, so the needs of flexibility in packing things together, differing battery sizes, etc overweigh the needs of making it all cheap and pluggable.
Asus aaaw (Score:2)
Re:Asus aaaw (Score:2)
Good thing he thought of that and added external power switches so he could turn off the devices he didn't need at any given time, but don't read the article, its much more fun to see off-the-cuff wit like this repeated ad nauseum.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Lame, I know.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
I think you just answered your own question. To make the stuff fit into the smallest possible space, they need to build just about everything into the mainboard. You'd more or less be buy a new computer when you "upgrade" anyway. Might as well replace the shell too. And the battery is probably not going to be very good buy the time you get arund to upgrading. Might as well replace that as well. I think modular laptops would be less desirable than you think.
-matthew
Re:Honest question (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Notebooks need a heck of a lot of optimization to fit that power into a space that's less than 2" thick and a carryable weight. Sure, there's MXM for video, but that's only part of the problem.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
A Dell laptop can be found for $400-$500 entry level. If They are going to add the ability to put in a better video card, then they also need to allow for upgradeable power circuits (or do that from the beginning) to carry the draw of whatever video card you may put in. This would include the brick and any circuits on the mobo that may not be designed to carry such a load.
Then you have to account for the additional heat. So you either need to allow the user to upgrade the fans, or have the ability to cool the laptop for the hottest video card from the get go.
So how much more will that Dell cost to allow for all that? Would it be worth it to be able to upgrade, when in 6 months you are likely better off just buying a new laptop to get faster/bigger HDD, better LCD, faster CPU/RAM too? Would you have been better off just buying a laptop with a decent video card to begin with (at 2X the cost?)
If anything, I'd like to see a standard output jack that would allow me to plug in an external video card. I'd like a multimedia laptop ($1000 range) with a power saving video card built in, but a jack to allow me to game when I am at home.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/28/ati-to-release-power-hungry-external-video-card/ [engadget.com]
http://www.everythingusb.com/iogear_usb_2.0_external_video_card_12787.html [everythingusb.com]
Re:Honest question (Score:5, Interesting)
Laptops are largely standardized. You can swap RAM, miniPCI devices (usually for graphics) WiFi, modems, keyboards, PSUs, etc.
As for motherboards... desktops really aren't standardized either. It's just that ATX is so large to begin with that making cases a few inches larger than an ATX motherboard (...is supposed to be) is hardly noticed, so cases are significantly oversized in both depth and width to ensure every motherboard out there will fit... and nobody cares. With laptops, size is a big selling point, so there's no room for several inches of such a fudge-factor.
When prices on the tech go down much further, so that top of the line motherboards can be made extremely tiny (say, 4" diameter) at only nominal expense over larger boards, you'll see laptops standardized just like desktops were, when the technology advanced to the point where ATX was more than big enough for everybody.
Size and heat dissipation (Score:2)
I think there may have been a few Dell laptops with a specialized video adaptor, but otherwise they're all part of the motherboard.
Re:Honest question (Score:2)
Take a look at a standard desktop and monitor. Now take a look at a mac mini. and one of dells slim buisness desktops.
the standard desktop is hugely expandable and customisable but you pay a huge size penalty for that flexibility. The dell slim desktop is smaller and still has some room for customisation. The mac mini has similar customisability/upgradability to a laptop.
Laptops do actually use quite a few standardised parts. Wireless cards are generally minipci or minipcie. Hard drives are IDE or SATA with standardised form factors and connector arrangements. CD drives are generally IDE again with a standardised form factor and connector arranagement (though some manufacturers devite from it for various reasons such as wanting a slotload with the slot being an integrated part of the case or wanting to make things slimmer). CPUs where socketed are standardised though a lot of manufacturers use ball grid array processors soldered to the motherboard. Graphics is afaict ususually integrated on the motherboard.
laptop manufacturers differentiate themselves by form factor, ulitimately the quality laptop manufacturers aim is to squeeze as much as possible into as little space as possible and to do so as robustly and/or cheaply as possible. That doesn't tend to sit well with standardised form factors especially for the larger parts (motherboard, screen,battery, keyboard etc).
Re:Honest question (Score:5, Insightful)
It would be one thing if I was trolling. I wasn't. I was curious as to what other slashdotters thought about the subject. Don't be an ass.
Is he serving that page from his EEE? (Score:1)
Re:Is he serving that page from his EEE? (Score:2)
Corel Cache? (Score:5, Informative)
http://beta.ivancover.com.nyud.net:8090/wiki/index.php/Eee_PC_Internal_Upgrades [nyud.net]
Hopefully it gets all of the pictures.
Re:Corel Cache? (Score:3, Funny)
Who doesn't love Corel? (Score:3, Funny)
from Bender's top-10 word list: (Score:2)
damn. That was quick. (Score:2, Interesting)
Bingo - article was slashdotted. Damn that was quick. 10 minutes. amazing. I think with some effort slashdot could bring the internet itself to its knees...maybe...possibley...kinda...sorta...almost...not really...never happen...fuhgeddaboutit...
RS
Re:damn. That was quick. (Score:2)
Re:damn. That was quick. (Score:2)
Bluetooth is pretty easy as the extra express card pin out has an integrated USB port and works well, it's actually a little easier in the eee's they removed the express card socket from, since you no longer have to build an adapter and can instead just solder it right to the board.
It's also not odd that it boots XP (or linux, or anything) fast, because it's got a solid state drive. No seek time leads to fast I/O responses, and 90% of booting windows is I/O.
Re:damn. That was quick. (Score:2)
Re:damn. That was quick. (Score:2)
Hackaday (Score:1)
EeeUser.com first (Score:2)
Looks nice, but does it close back up? (Score:2)
It all looks great, but he never shows it back together. Does the keyboard and palm rest actually fit back down on the computer correctly now?
Hacking a laptop is fine, but it should be useful as a laptop.
Oblig. (Score:4, Funny)
This website hosted by... (Score:1)
connecting.....
Not quite done yet (Score:1)
Re:Not quite done yet (Score:2)
IIRC the cost of a refurbished final model libretto is about double the price of an eepc plus a big SD card plus a whitebox oem copy of XP pro.
RAM vs. battery life? (Score:2)
I just got issued an Eee PC for a travelling laptop. So far I'm planning on leaving it in "Easy Mode" - when in Rome, right? I want to spend more time actually using it than hacking on it.
Having said that, 512MB RAM just isn't enough when there isn't swap to fall back on. Anyone know how much the extra capacity will increase power consumption and decrease battery runtime, assuming it takes more current to keep 2GB refreshed than .5GB? And in such things, is CAS 4 any different than CAS 5? Finally, higher speed RAM (such as 667 vs. 533) just means it's specced to run faster, and once you reach the FSB speed you don't act get any benefit, correct?
Sorry for asking here, but most forums I've seen are along the lines of "how do i make the fonts smaller" and are silent on more technical questions.
Re:RAM vs. battery life? (Score:3, Informative)
They notably explained that when in sleep mode the RAM is refreshed normally (i.e. not with a special low power technique) and uses 2W.
This forces me to turn my EEE off to avoid running out of battery after a day or an night of sleep mode.
I did not see if the 2GB stick made things worse or not... Maybe there is more about this in the eeeuser.com forums.
Re:RAM vs. battery life? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:RAM vs. battery life? (Score:2)
2. i wouldn't think the CAS would make any difference. the performance difference is marginal and i wouldn't think it changes the power use any.
3. yeah, no change in performance, but i also wouldn't using faster rated ram running at the same speed as lower-rated ram would make any difference in power use.
Re:RAM vs. battery life? (Score:2, Interesting)
The faster you run a stick of ram the more power it is going to burn. I don't know of a way to figure out exactly how much power a stick of ram is going to use short of testing it or looking up the part number of the memory chips used.
Higher frequency at the same CAS latency = faster
Same frequency lower CAS latency = faster
When you get to slower frequency at lower CAS latency it is not as clear cut, because now the clocks you are using to measure the latency are not the same so even if the latency was the same the CAS latency would not be.
Re:RAM vs. battery life? (Score:2)
Well, apparently the Eee's FSB is locked to 70MHz, so I'd imagine that the stock DDR2 533 is about as fast as it could possibly take advantage of. I guess what I was really wondering (but expressed poorly) is whether "faster" RAM was the same as "slower" RAM, just certified to work at higher clocks, or if there was some fundamental difference that would affect power consumption (such as earning the higher spec by drawing more voltage or something like that). Crappy car analogy that triggered this question: a Prius at 30MPH gets better mileage than a stock car at 30MPH because they're actually made differently, and holding them back to the same speed won't erase the difference.
Re:RAM vs. battery life? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:RAM vs. battery life? (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:2)
Re:What about the EEE 700 (2G Surf), not 701? (Score:2)
Hacking the name (Score:4, Funny)
Will ASUS come out with an iEEE laptop?
Re:Hacking the name (Score:2)
Even desktops are not totally standardized... (Score:2)
Offtopic, but relevant to slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
That being said, what could possibly go wrong?
Re:Offtopic, but relevant to slashdot (Score:2)
I've never seen a "what could possibly go wrong" tag but I've seen quite a few posts complaining about them.
Must be because I'm using RSS and haven't visited the main page in weeks.
Thank you (Score:2)
Plus, this now sounds like a really cool device. Built in GPS and FM transmitter?
Awesome.
I wanna go dust off my soldering gun now.
Impressive (Score:2)
Re:Available in the 2nd quarter (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I prefer the iPod Touch over the eeePC (Score:2)
And I prefer the N800 over the iPod touch (Score:2)
Seriously, don't underestimate the Eee. The N800 is great for when you're not using a computer, and the Touch works when you want to impress teh b4bes with your disposable income and disposable toys.
Re:I prefer the iPod Touch over the eeePC (Score:2)
PS i am currently typing this from my eeePC and I love it
Re:I prefer the iPod Touch over the eeePC (Score:2)
Re:But what about the power? (Score:2)
Re:But what about the power? (Score:2)
Re:But what about the power? (Score:2)
Re:screen? (Score:2)
Re:First Tits! (Score:2, Funny)