US To Extinguish (Most) Incandescent Bulb Sales By 2012 1106
Engadget has noted a report in the New York Times that that the US has "passed a law barring stores from selling incandescent light bulbs after 2012. 'Course, the EU and Australia have already decided to ditch the inefficient devices in the not-too-distant future, but a new energy bill signed into law this week throws the US into the aforementioned group. Better grab a pack of the current bulbs while you still can — soon you'll be holding a sliver of history."
Misleading summary (shocking, I know) (Score:5, Informative)
Re:CF save energy, but lack functionality... (Score:5, Informative)
e.G.
http://www.vosslighting.com/storefrontB2BWEB/browse.do?action=refresh_browse&ctg_id=547 [vosslighting.com]
Compact fluorescent bulbs contain Mercury (Score:5, Informative)
Dim bulbs (Score:4, Informative)
(Dim bulbs. Oh, the temptation to make a political joke is strong...)
Dimmable CF bulbs exist (Score:3, Informative)
Actually there are dimmable CF bulbs [wikipedia.org]. At present they don't work quite as well as incandescents for dimming applications but they do exist and work acceptably for many applications. They typically cannot dim all the way to no light, with most stopping at about 20%. Many are reported to buzz when dimmed as well though I've not experienced this myself yet. They also are quite expensive still. A 3W dimmable (equivalent to a 15W incandescent) from Home Depot costs $6.35 last I checked. I use some in my house and they work reasonably well if not quite as well as the non-dimming CF bulbs I use.
Stupid idea (Score:5, Informative)
Re:multi-led dimmer light (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Dim bulbs (Score:5, Informative)
With CFL, unlike incandescent, you get what you pay for. If you are going to put a bulb outside, get ones meant for being outside. If you need ones that dim, buy the ones that dim.
The biggest problem I've had in switching my whole house to CFL is the lack of non-cold-cathode candelabra lights. They are all cold cathode and tend to be 4w or so, whereas a lot of light fixtures that need them expect 30w bulbs (so more like 8-9w in CFL terms)... so you just don't get enough light unless you are using full-size bulbs.
Re:multi-led dimmer light (Score:3, Informative)
Its not easy to find (at least locally) dimmable CFLs but I can't remember ever finding a high-lumen (700+) LED bulb that can dim at all.
Re:Government Efficiency (Score:1, Informative)
Incandescent bulbs ARE much more expensive than fluorescents. If manufacturers had to clearly inform consumers about the cost of buying and then using a certain type and brand of light bulb over a normalized time of 10000 hours, more consumers would realize that the operating costs exceed the price of the bulb by far. Unless you're in very cold climate, the heat from incandescent bulbs is useless, or even increases the cost of air conditioning. On the other hand, if you're using AC, the environmental and economical cost of incandescent lighting is almost negligible...
Re:Impressive.... (Score:2, Informative)
I beg to differ. Lumileds, Cree and others are making high-power leds on a large scale
The advantage is that LEDs can be turned on in a few nanoseconds, which means that you could us PWM (pulsing) to dim leds at very high frequencies, 100KHz and higher is possible. However I am sure that at 500Hz you will not even notice it.
Cold weather CFL bulbs (Score:1, Informative)
that we get several times a year in Montreal. The box did say that the could be used in cold weather but were no more expensive
than the other brands that did not. They were bought in the local big box renovation center.
I am guessing but I think cold weather bulb availability for a national chain would depend where the buyer lives.
If they live in Montana or North Dakota (or Montreal) they may think it was an issue otherwise maybe not.
Re:What? (Score:5, Informative)
If you don't believe me, check out this study that Popular Mechanics did earlier this year on the color temperature and subjective quality of light bulbs.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/home_improvement/4215199.html [popularmechanics.com]
For their subjective part of the test, they put in 3 interior designers in color-neutral rooms and had them comment on what they thought about the light sources. Going into the test, the designers said they did not like the quality of color from CFL's, but by the end every single designer rated the CFL's higher than the incandescent bulb. To say the least, they were surprised and have changed their out-dated CFL hating ways.
Also, here's some tips I've learned from installing hundreds of CFL's:
-Don't buy the cheap ones, they frequently buzz. Go with name brands like Phillips or GE, I have yet to have a problem with them.
-Don't install bulbs on dimmer switches, unless they're specifically designed for dimmers - they'll last only a couple weeks.
-Some large CFL's can't be mounted upside down, beware.
-CFL's don't play well with motion sensor activation - they will burn out in months.
-IKEA recycles CFL's for free! (and batteries too)
-The vanity light shaped CFL's currently have a fairly long warm-up time, about 30 seconds. I hope they keep this, as I don't like blinding light first thing in the morning. The gradual warm-up is nice at 5am.
Re:Misleading summary (shocking, I know) (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, the new law doesn't ban incandescants (which would be an incredibly bad law); it merely sets efficiency standards where before there were none (which is actually a pretty good law). And G.E. claims to be well on the way [news.com] to making incandescants that will meet the new standards.
(By the way, the standards that phase in over the next few years are still well below the efficiency of a CFL. Even the backstop provisions for 2020 -- 45 lumens per watt -- are at the low end of what a CFL can do. So if G.E. can make incandescants compete with CFL, as they say they can, then there's no issue here.)
Also, there are a bunch of exemptions and exceptions. Those allegedly-decorative candelabra bulbs have a different standard (nothing above 60W). Many special-purpose lights are exempt, and in some cases that just means the light has to be marketed as "for such-and-such use only".
But by all means, let's all panic.
Re:wow (Score:3, Informative)
That's better than my results (except for very small values of less than six months). I love the colour spectrum of the GE 6500K CFLs, and bought the 100-watt-equivalent type to replace all of the overhead lighting in my apartment (10 sockets). Most of them have lasted somewhere between 1 and 4 months.
This is a relatively new building, and in three years of living there I've never had a problem with any other electrical or electronic device. Incandescent bulbs tend to last me about a year. My only theory is that it has something to do with the fixtures, but IMO if CFLs are so fragile that they can't operate correctly in a fixture designed for incandescents that put out considerably more heat, they are not ready for prime time.
Since CFLs are (AFAIK) the only replacement bulb type that's at all economical, their lack of reliability should prevent any consideration of phasing out incandescents in favour of them.
Re:mod parent up. (Score:3, Informative)
"Wal-Mart announced yesterday that the company has blown past an ambitious goal of selling 100 million compact fluorescent light bulbs by the end of 2007 -- three months early"
Google "Wal-Mart CFL"
Re:Compact fluorescent bulbs contain Mercury (Score:2, Informative)
Re:wow (Score:3, Informative)
Home automation can save you an additional 60% of energy costs by dealing with lighting so that no lights are on when not needed as well as the heat and shade control. So most of my clients still use old bulbs (Hey soft on and off are incredibly elegant and when you have a 22 million dollar home you want elegant for some reason) and a few are letting us help switch them to LED lighting. Problem is, LED lamps like the popular PAR30 for can lights are so crappy in quality we get a 45% return rate from customers having dead led's in the array and they are at least 20 times dimmer than a CFL of the same wattage.
Also CFL's have NASTY coloration. even the good "warm white" CFL's dont look good over artwork (plus they have a crapload more UV output and destroy artwork)
When they actually fix CFL lamps so they look good, have zero UV output, and can handle the automation systems that save even more energy they will be an option. Until then, they suck.
An antidote for FUD (Score:5, Informative)
The main thing to do when purchasing CFLs is to avoid the junk that's sold at Wal-Mart, Meijer, Home Depot, etc. Also, try to look for bulbs with the Energy Star label, which guarantees that they have electric ballasts (instant-on, no hum), lifespan ratings of at least 6000 hours, and at least a two-year warranty.
I order all of my bulbs online from 1000bulbs.com. While I've had a few issues with bulbs prematurely burning out, but replacements are always quickly sent, free of charge, without requiring me to ship the defective bulbs back.
I haven't bought an incandescent bulb in over two years, and have helped friends and family switch as well. Since I buy bulbs online I can get them in any variant needed - including dimmable, "warm," flame-shaped bulbs for the light fixture in the dining room at my mom's house; PAR-30 shaped bulbs for the cans in my in-law's house (they are far from being environmentalists, but were sick of incandescents burning out, and have been very pleased in the six months they've had the CFLs so far); and 5100K "daylight" bulbs for some areas in my house.
Politics aside, please actually do some research before spouting off FUD.
Re:CF save energy, but lack functionality... (Score:5, Informative)
Problem is decent LED lights for home fixtures cost around $70.00 a bulb. the cheap crap off ebay fail with some dead led's in the array or other failures like color shifting within a few weeks.
I have 4 ceiling cans in the family room with about $380.00 in LED PAR30 bulbs that are bright enough to be 60 watt replacements. Wife loves the coloration of the warm white and I like how I can dim them down as much as regular bulbs.
Re:What? (Score:3, Informative)
By the way, I like CFL's because they run a LOT cooler, which helps on hot summer days.
Re:wow (Score:2, Informative)
And what about your kids when they knock over that lamp and break the bulb? They will be breathing that very same mercury and lead. But I guess a few IQ points is worth reducing our energy consumption.
http://www.uis.edu/facilityservices/fluorescent_bulbs.htm [uis.edu]
Check it out if you don't believe it. We could be poisoning the next generation by imposing laws that require the use of dangerous materials. And the costs are going to be more than expected since special hazardous material handling processes will need to be implemented to safely discard the millions of bulbs that will burn out and be broken every day.
I can see every house having to have a chemical protective suit that can be worn in case a bulb is broken.
Re:Mercury poisoning (Score:1, Informative)
there is less mercury in a cfl than there is in a watch battery.
Actually, Incandescents Aren't Banned (Score:3, Informative)
With regard to the law, the version sent to the President for signature can be found here [gpo.gov].
In fact, the law does not actually prohibit the sale of indcandescent bulbs by 2012. Rather, beginning in Section 312, the law sets efficiency standards, phasing in over time, that current incandescent bulbs cannot meet, but doesn't specify the type of bulb that should be used. Interestingly, it also includes the following provision in Section 321(h)(1) (found on page 95 of the document I linked to):
"REPORT ON MERCURY USE AND RELEASE.--Not later than
1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary,
in cooperation with the Administrator of the Environmental
Protection Agency, shall submit to Congress a report describing
recommendations relating to the means by which the Federal
Government may reduce or prevent the release of mercury
during the manufacture, transportation, storage, or disposal
of light bulbs."
USA Today's story [usatoday.com] does a good job of summarizing this issue. {ProfJonathan}
Re:wow (Score:3, Informative)
CFLs are not a perfect technology, yes. There are lower-mercury lights on the market, but people don't buy them due to the additional expense and non-tangible benefit. LEDs are certainly the way things are looking to go; the State House Christmas tree is lit with LEDs this year. (We sourced them for those.)
Re:mod parent up. (Score:3, Informative)
Not all rednecks live in the hills, y'all.
Re:CF save energy, but lack functionality... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:wow (Score:4, Informative)
BTW, it seems they contain mercury but I didn't see any information suggesting CFL's contain lead. You may also be interested in this [wikipedia.org]:
text of the bill (Score:5, Informative)
The section discussed here is about as long as TFA. It's 9021 of HR 3221 ("Short Titles.--This Act may be cited as the ``New Direction for
Energy Independence, National Security, and Consumer Protection Act'')
(http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/useftp.cgi?IPaddress=162.140.64.182&filename=h3221eh.txt&directory=/diska/wais/data/110_cong_bills [gpo.gov],
In it, you can see that the only bans are based on efficiency standards, not type of manufacture. For example, 100 watt lamps that do not provide 60 lumens/watt or better are banned. Issues of color spectrum are anticipated and basic measures put into place.
Now if we could apply this method to fuel efficiency we'd actually start making a dent.
Relevant excerpts:
PART 2--LIGHTING EFFICIENCY
SEC. 9021. EFFICIENT LIGHT BULBS.
(a) Prohibition.--
(1) Regulations.--Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Energy shall issue regulations--
(A) prohibiting the sale of 100 watt general service incandescent lamps after January 1, 2012, unless those lamps emit at least 60 lumens per watt;
(B) prohibiting the sale of general service lamps manufactured after the effective dates shown in the table below that do not meet the minimum efficacy levels (lumens/watt) shown in the following table:
Minimum Efficacy Levels and Effective Dates
Minimum Efficacy
Lumen Range (Lumens/Watt) Effective Dates
200-449 15 1/1/2014
450-699 17 1/1/2014
700-999 20 1/1/2013
1000-1500 22 1/1/2012
1501-3000 24 1/1/2012
(C) after January 1, 2020, prohibiting the sale of general service lamps that emit less than 300 percent of the average lumens per watt emitted by 100 watt incandescent general service lamps that are commercially available as of the date of enactment of this Act;
(D) establishing a minimum color rendering index (CRI) of 80 or higher for all general service lamps manufactured as of the effective dates in subparagraph (B); and
(E) prohibiting the manufacture or import for sale in the United States of an adapter device designed to allow a lamp with a different base to fit into a medium screw base socket manufactured after January 1, 2009.
(2) Exemptions.--The regulations issued under paragraph (1) shall include procedures for the Secretary to exempt specialty lamps from the requirements of paragraph (1). The Secretary may provide such an exemption only in cases where the Secretary finds, after a hearing and opportunity for public comment, that it is not technically feasible to serve a specialized lighting application, such as a military, medical, public safety
application, or in certified historic lighting applications using bulbs that meet the requirements of paragraph (1). In addition, the Secretary shall include as an additional criterion that exempted products are unlikely to be used in the general service lighting applications.
(3) Additional lamps types.--
(A) Manufacturers of rough service, vibration service, vibration resistant, appliance, shatter resistant, and three-way lamps shall report annual
sales volume to the Se
Re:multi-led dimmer light (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/cc-vivid-led-light-bulb.aspx [ccrane.com]
text of the bill (Score:2, Informative)
The section discussed here is about as long as TFA. It's 9021 of HR 3221 ("Short Titles.--This Act may be cited as the ``New Direction for
Energy Independence, National Security, and Consumer Protection Act'')
(http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/useftp.cgi?IPaddress=162.140.64.182&filename=h3221eh.txt&directory=/diska/wais/data/110_cong_bills [gpo.gov],
In it, you can see that the only bans are based on efficiency standards, not type of manufacture. For example, 100 watt lamps that do not provide 60 lumens/watt or better are banned. Issues of color spectrum are anticipated and basic measures put into place.
Now if we could apply this method to fuel efficiency we'd actually start making a dent.
Relevant excerpts:
PART 2--LIGHTING EFFICIENCY
SEC. 9021. EFFICIENT LIGHT BULBS.
(a) Prohibition.--
(1) Regulations.--Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Energy shall issue regulations--
(A) prohibiting the sale of 100 watt general service incandescent lamps after January 1, 2012, unless those lamps emit at least 60 lumens per watt;
(B) prohibiting the sale of general service lamps manufactured after the effective dates shown in the table below that do not meet the minimum efficacy levels (lumens/watt) shown in the following table:
Lumen Range (Lumens/Watt) Effective Dates
200-449 15 1/1/2014
450-699 17 1/1/2014
700-999 20 1/1/2013
1000-1500 22 1/1/2012
1501-3000 24 1/1/2012
(C) after January 1, 2020, prohibiting the sale of general service lamps that emit less than 300 percent of the average lumens per watt emitted by 100 watt incandescent general service lamps that are commercially available as of the date of enactment of this Act;
(D) establishing a minimum color rendering index (CRI) of 80 or higher for all general service lamps manufactured as of the effective dates in subparagraph (B); and
(E) prohibiting the manufacture or import for sale in the United States of an adapter device designed to allow a lamp with a different base to fit into a medium screw base socket manufactured after January 1, 2009.
(2) Exemptions.--The regulations issued under paragraph (1) shall include procedures for the Secretary to exempt specialty lamps from the requirements of paragraph (1). The Secretary may provide such an exemption only in cases where the Secretary finds, after a hearing and opportunity for public comment, that it is not technically feasible to serve a specialized lighting application, such as a military, medical, public safety
application, or in certified historic lighting applications using bulbs that meet the requirements of paragraph (1). In addition, the Secretary shall include as an additional criterion that exempted products are unlikely to be used in the general service lighting applications.
(3) Additional lamps types.--
(A) Manufacturers of rough service, vibration service, vibration resistant, appliance, shatter resistant, and three-way lamps shall report annual
sales volume to the Secretary. If the Secretary determines that annual sales volume for any of these lamp types increases by 100 percent relative to 2009 sales in any later year, then such lamps shall by subject to the following standards:
(i) Appliance lamps shall use no more than 40 watts.
(ii) Rough service lamps shall use no more
Re:Compact fluorescent bulbs contain Mercury (Score:3, Informative)
LED's not CFL's (Score:3, Informative)
The other big guys did you think this through before passing the law issue is light dimmers. Most of the incandescant replacements do not handle dimmers very well if at all and there are a scheissload of dimmers in houses.
Sucks for migraines (Score:3, Informative)
There are energy saving applications that CFs are no good at. "On demand" lighting, that is turned on for only a few minutes while you are in the room (florescent lights of all kinds hate rapid power cycling). Dimmers. Winter. Incandescent lights are great for winter. The light is warmer both literally (90% infrared) and psychologically.
Fortunately, banning a particular technology, while boneheaded, is not nearly as boneheaded as mandating a particular technology. People with flicker sensitive migraines can purchase LED lighting - although it is currently quite a bit more expensive. I suppose christmas lights will have to go the LED route also. Sigh. At least the expense will discourage those gaudy "cover the entire house with tiny lights on 2 inch spacing" displays.
I am really sick of this nanny state business.
MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:5, Informative)
As for lead content, you'd better stop using computers of any kind, because all of them use far more lead during their production than any CFLs do.
Re:wow (Score:2, Informative)
2) An old mercury thermometer has up to 100 times the mercury as a CFL.
3) Quit spreading FUD.
http://www.epa.state.oh.us/pic/cfl_info.html [state.oh.us]
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Ditto, MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:3, Informative)
And according to OSHA [osha.gov], that's the acceptable amount for a full 8-hour shift of work. At roughly 1L/s [anaesthetist.com], that's about 3.6m3/hr, or about 3mg/shift.
Or the entire contents of a CFL every day and a half.
>>> Somehow you haven't quite convinced me that inhaling four milligrams directly into
>>> my lungs isn't going to be a bad, if not a deadly, thing for me.
One presumes you don't go around snorting CFL bulbs; if you don't, you're never going to get the entire contents in a short period of time. Indeed, you're highly unlikely to get the entire contents at all if you simply air out the room like everyone suggests, and based on the shape of CFLs it's unlikely that anything less than crushing a bulb would release more more than a fraction of the mercury.
It's probably not a good idea to take up huffing CFLs, though, as the "immediate danger" level of mercury vapour is set at 10mg/m3. At ~5L/breath, that's about 20 breaths per mg, suggesting that rapid inhallation of large amounts of mercury isn't going to be much fun. It's pretty questionable whether it would be damaging, though, as animal studies [cdc.gov] show that mild organ damage occurs after an hour of 30mg/m3 exposure - a human in that environment would have breathed in over 100mg of mercury by then.
>>> When I start buying as many computers as I do light bulbs, I'll try to remember your enlightening comparison.
Try also to remember that computers are often bigger than light bulbs. Size - as you may have heard - matters.
Re:An antidote for FUD (Score:3, Informative)
If you want dimmable + home automation, this post won't help you.
But you can use normal CFL bulbs in lamps if you plug the lamp into a modified X10 appliance module.
Take a AM466/AM486 (the only difference seems to be the ground wire) and cut a diode to eliminate most of the local current sensing voltage [idobartana.com]. This stops the "flicker" that some bulbs get. Of course, you may lose local control, or still have some voltage. To eliminate all of the local current sensing voltage, cut the jumper the link tells you to as well. With just the diode cut, I still have local control, but YMMV.
I've been using two CFL lamps on AM466 controllers since this fall and haven't had a problem with either so far.
If you are wanting to control overheat lights, you need to add a neutral wire to the switch, which may or may not be possible depending on your wiring setup.