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Power Hardware

Dell, Lenovo Adding Solar Option for PCs 184

An anonymous reader writes "Lenovo just announced a solar power option for PCs, and Dell is about to do the same, according to Advanced Energy Group. But the solar hardware weights 86 pounds and costs $1,300! Lenovo officials admit they had to do this to reach the 75% mark to gain EPEAT Gold status; Dell couldn't be reached for comment. Hopefully the technology will get smaller and more affordable."
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Dell, Lenovo Adding Solar Option for PCs

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  • Batteries Included (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Sunday September 16, 2007 @12:29PM (#20626185) Homepage Journal
    PC tech has financed huge tech returns for non-PC products, especially in power conservation and management. I'd like to see Dell and other PC OEMs evolve into supplying solar power systems (with embedded PCs for ease of open integration and smart operation) for general use in our homes, offices and mobile.

    A real winner would be mobile phones whose cases all recharge off solar (or just ambient light, even indoors). That kind of mass market could drive down the price:performance curve, open up the tech to all our powered devices. And make the "solar look" popular that even people who buy on nothing but fashion (most people) would start saving power with all these accessories.
  • Yep. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 16, 2007 @12:32PM (#20626215)
    This is exactly how you are going to "save the planet" by solving the energy problem, folks. Not by not using coal/oil plant electricity. But by captalism: profiting from selling clean energy solutions.
  • by downix ( 84795 ) on Sunday September 16, 2007 @12:38PM (#20626267) Homepage
    First computers and cell phones, then cars which run off of batteries, but use solar panels while sitting at the mall or work parking lot, and finishng up with solar farms running all of our electrical needs through smart reduction of power demands...

    Ok everyone, I feel a hearty round of kumbaya coming on.... **ducks the vegetables**
  • by Twid ( 67847 ) on Sunday September 16, 2007 @12:38PM (#20626273) Homepage
    Once again copying Apple: PowerBook: Solar Powered Solutions [apple.com] - and only 13 years after this support article was written. :)

    Pics here [sinanco.com].

    Someone told me that one of the *old* powerbooks has a replacable top panel in which there was some sort of official apple solar panel option. I did some googling but couldn't find any evidence of that.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 16, 2007 @12:58PM (#20626441)
    When we factor in the environmental and monetary cost of producing this product (panels and battery systems) to run a PC which would be practically free in terms of cost and carbon emission to run on the grid in many countries...I'm left scratching my head... how is this a good deal for either the environment or the buyer?

    If you really want to save the planet take that $1300 and use it for a down payment on a ground source heat pump for your home.
  • Who here works in a cube farm and doesn't see on a daily basis a few people that could stand to do the exercise and would be better off generating power for the folks that are effective. It would work (and we would get healthier geeks to).
  • Division of labour (Score:1, Interesting)

    by gigantu' ( 1156191 ) on Sunday September 16, 2007 @01:15PM (#20626605)
    Didn't Dell and Lenovo hear about division of labour [wikipedia.org]? I'm sure that if I need solar power I can get a better, cheaper and more flexible solution from a company specialized in solar power generation. Maybe some exec got confused over the "power supply" term.
  • Allright, I'll bite (Score:2, Interesting)

    by empaler ( 130732 ) on Sunday September 16, 2007 @01:20PM (#20626659) Journal

    Once again copying Apple: PowerBook: Solar Powered Solutions [apple.com] - and only 13 years after this support article was written. :)

    Pics here [sinanco.com].

    Someone told me that one of the *old* powerbooks has a replacable top panel in which there was some sort of official apple solar panel option. I did some googling but couldn't find any evidence of that.
    From the linked page:

    Note: This article provides information about a non-Apple product. Apple Computer, Inc. is not responsible for its content and mention of this product should not be interpreted as a recommendation by Apple. Please contact the vendor for additional information.
    Also, as far as I can tell, the products are no longer available (neither in original form, nor in "updated" forms).

    To summarize: Hubris.

    Yese, someone made something similar a decade ago. Are you saying that this Lenovo thinks this is so wildly succesful they'd better get into the market?
    Logically speaking, when the 2007 version weighs in at almost 50 kg and does not even completely power the kit, I think it's more to do with the tech being immature rather than being first to market. I can also market completely half-assed stuff, but then my company would also die and leave my domain for the sharks [wildwestweb.com].
  • by InvalidError ( 771317 ) on Sunday September 16, 2007 @01:32PM (#20626775)
    Not quite sure how this would be possible.

    Consumer-grade panels are less than 20% efficient, an average PC with an average monitor and some gadgets attached use about 150W, at ~12h/day, this is about 1.5kWh/day. There is usable sunlight less than 8h/day so the solar array needs to provide at least 600W during that period under worst-case lighting conditions to enable fully off-the-grid operation and this requires at least five square meters of said consumer-grade panels. With much of the usage occuring outside usable illumination hours, the battery needs to store about 1kWh. At this point, you have to take your pick between an inexpensive 40kg set of SLA batteries, a more expensive 30kg NiMH set or a very expensive and potentially spontaneously-combusting 20kg lithium-polymer one.

    The weight is a function of battery technology, the size is a function of solar panel efficiency. All are improving in many ways but these technological advancements are incremental, slow and expensive. For the time being, I would settle for replacing the 7.2Ah batteries in my BX1000 UPS by external 100Ah ones (~2kWh reserve), strapping an alternator to a stationary exercise bicycle and pedal for a while every couple of hours... much less expensive, more portable (try packing and re-deploying a 1kW array) and available nearly whenever/wherever I am.

    Because the cost per watt of solar energy is currently pretty high, solar makes little sense as anything other than a statement. When solar panels will be available under $100/kW in the ~20% efficient grades, solar will become much more interesting - at least for people who live close enough to the equator to be spared crazy frosty winter ice storms.
  • by zogger ( 617870 ) on Sunday September 16, 2007 @02:52PM (#20627459) Homepage Journal
    ...and before you casually hurl "know it all" insults. I live in georgia, and also own an aeromarine wind power generator, but I use solar for my alternative energy of choice, because it works *much much better* here than wind. There's no one single "best" power source, it depends on use, location, etc. Solar just works hella better here than wind, right now,I am getting decent sun, but the wind is quite calm. Other areas it is way more windy most of the year, but solar might not be as good. Some guys are lucky and can run decent hybrid systems, using both, especially good as wind picks up in the winter when there is less sun, and vice versa. It just depends. Here ya go, look at some solar and wind potential maps [nrel.gov]

    I've been into alternative energy since the 60s (you??) when I first worked with my dad and we built from scratch some solar heating for our swimming pool (added a month decent swimming both spring and fall for only a couple hundred bucks and some labor), and since that time as a hobbiest and also it was my business for a few years (might be again possibly, the interest has picked up a lot this past year with all the energy cost increases), by actually "doing* stuff with it, everything from solar thermal space heating and solar water heating for household use to making biofuel ethanol and methane, working on superinsulated structures (several of those, best dollars you can spend is more insulation and better windows), etc. etc, along with solar PV and wind. I am fully aware of the pluses and minuses of this or that technique and what stuff costs, etc. This isn't theoretical casual web board commentary from me, it is hands on experience. I don't write code, so I don't comment about that a whole lot, but with alternative energy I can speak from some significant experience. I don't claim to be the expert's expert, because I am not, but I do have a lot of hands on with this stuff and try to keep up with the industry in general terms. And it worked just swell with that laptop, and it also ran a reading light and a small TV and a radio at the same time during the evenings, it wasn't stupid at all, it "just worked" for relatively cheap money, and it has been long paid off and the same rig still works fine, even that original single battery that is going on ten years old now works fine, and the larger battery bank is 8 years old now and works fine.
  • nope (Score:2, Interesting)

    by zogger ( 617870 ) on Sunday September 16, 2007 @03:09PM (#20627601) Homepage Journal
    Screw that, it isn't their carbon to tax me on it *again* and I've already pointed out that tree planting is just a way to "feel good" about your pollution, trees are self planting all over the planet, lining up some sort of figures is usless except for those who want more political power over other people or want their money and usually it is both. Really, I am not exaggerating, we have _thousands_ of new baby trees a year sprout up here, will someone give me a wad of cash for that? How about you, where's my check, we "offset" quite a bit of carbon just by letting the woods grow here. Oh,no check? Why not then? Carbon credits and taxes are an authoritarian and globalist greedpig economic and power trip scam. It's the new enron styled invent crap out of thin air trading BS that they slap warm and fuzzy green paint on it so the mouth breather rubes don't notice they are being fleeced and exploited some more. Sure, you can go on purpose plant trees all over, that doesn't mean that a huge number more wild ones don't sprout up every year with not much more than wind and animals moving the seeds around. It's urban "feel good" crap. Makes about as much sense as those weather trading futures they tried, just more scam products from the same accounting school of thought as where the MAFIAA or the DEA pull numbers on what stuff is worth.

    Now don't get me wrong, I am a huge proponent of "going green", living with a light footprint, being responsible, not dicking over the environment, etc, and have been my entire life, but I've just been in this to long to not notice the cons that can get associated with it, and "carbon credits" and "carbon trading" are at the very top of the list.
  • That was fast! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by gandhi_2 ( 1108023 ) on Sunday September 16, 2007 @03:16PM (#20627647) Homepage
    Generally, we have to wait YEARS after press release to get products! Any "no shit, there they were" already on sale at places like REI...two years ago. REI [rei.com] Brunton makes several kinds, you can even connect some types in series for more watts. I heard we can look forward to polio vaccinations sometime next year too!
  • by adolf ( 21054 ) <flodadolf@gmail.com> on Sunday September 16, 2007 @05:44PM (#20628895) Journal
    And this, ladies and gentleman, is why one should never post to Slashdot before consuming coffee.

    The point I was attempting to make, "would you rather sell a nickle twenty times, or a dollar just once?" is an attempt to illustrate why, exactly, it is that profit margins are so high on low-volume electronics -- or anything else of low volume, for that matter.

    Yeah, sure, they could drop the price and sell a lot more of the photovoltaic kits.

    But they're not trying to sell PV kits, per se, but they are instead just trying to make money. Maximizing profit is what corporations exist to do. Selling more stuff doesn't always mean earning more profit, but it always means more work.

    If they figure the proper markup (ie, the point at which profit is maximized) is 2x retail, that's their problem, isn't it?

    If you think you can sell it cheaper, at such miniscule volumes as these things are likely to move at, then please feel free to do so. Else, please STFU.

    HTH. HAND.

  • by BradMajors ( 995624 ) on Sunday September 16, 2007 @06:15PM (#20629115)
    Hamburgers and French fries are feed into a human who then converts the biofuel into electricity by pulling on a string. OLPC will be powered by pulling a string: http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/24/olpc-will-be-powered-by-pulling-a-string/ [engadget.com]
  • by InvalidError ( 771317 ) on Sunday September 16, 2007 @08:49PM (#20630615)
    For low-power battery-operated equipment, solar can open interesting possibilities since the application already contains a battery and charge controller... all that's needed is exposed surface area and you can, even if you fail to go completely unplugged, at least extend your battery life by a significant amount: a cell-phone on standby draws less than 10mA, which is within the realm of what a cell-sized solar panel could provide at the required ~4V.

    Dunno for your original comment... it kind of made it seem like improving battery/solar cell technology was trivial. If you look at progress curves, battery energy density and solar cell efficiency have not been doubling every 18 months... the progress is more on the scale of single-digit percentile points each year between major breakthroughs, trailing a very long way behind display and chip technologies. Power-conversion technology has been there for years, we need batteries and solar panels to catch up.

    If Moore's "law" started applying to battery energy density and solar cell efficiency tomorrow, most of our energy problems would solve themselves over the next three years!

It's a naive, domestic operating system without any breeding, but I think you'll be amused by its presumption.

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