AMD NDA Scandal 187
crazyeyes writes "Just two weeks ago, a Thai journalist walked out of the hush-hush AMD event in Singapore over a controversial NDA that required him to 'send any stories to the vendor before his newspaper can publish it.' AMD categorically denied it happened, but today, we not only have proof that it happened, we also have the sordid details of the entire affair. Here's a quote from the editorial: 'First off, the non-disclosure agreement covered everything confidential said or written over the next two years on the product, and had a duration of five years, during which anything published or used in marketing would have to receive written approval from AMD before it could be used. Worse, at the end of the five years, all copies of the information made would have to be returned to the chipmaker.'"
News? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Seems to be a non-issue... (Score:5, Informative)
It is not unusual to have a NDA covering a longer period so one does not have to sign it each and every occasion. Then, even according to the text such a NDA is only applicable for confidential information. That means, everything posted in the Bankok Post would not be confidential anymore
How much control can AMD have over the articles to be published? Not much probably as long as no confidential information is there. But we'd need to see the original text.
Btw, why not link to the article of the journalist involved:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/Database/05Sep2007_dat
bad policy (Score:3, Insightful)
Wrong Scandal (Score:5, Insightful)
The Real scandal is described here:
All of those invited to the event were given an NDA to sign before going on that 5-star, all-expense-paid trip to Singapore. Hidden in that piece of legal boilerplate were some sneaky clauses. Yeah, don't we just love those clauses. This is what Don found in that NDA:
Excuse me? If I went on any "5-star, all-expense paid trip to Singapore" at a vendor's expense I'm going to be--and I would deserve to be--fired in less time than it took me to write this note.
Steven
Re:Wrong Scandal (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wrong Scandal (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wrong Scandal (Score:5, Informative)
Hear, hear. I've worked for a couple of different publications in the trade press and we were generally only allowed to accept gifts from vendors totaling in the realm of about $20. Attending an industry meet-n-greet held at a fancy restaurant was often enough to set fingers wagging.
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In the latter case then that seems fair enough, provided the editor who accepted the package isn't going to put pressure on
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And Yet.... (Score:2)
Assuming you are a full-time journalist, then you would be working at the last media outlet with any scruples whatsoever. You also probably get few, if any, product reviews, first-in-line product announcements too because your media would be considered too independent to guarantee a good review.
Why is this an issue to anyone?
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I agree completely. Singapore's nice, but it's not THAT great. I would have held out for Paris or Rome.
So what (Score:2, Insightful)
For example, if AMD was targeting 32 TB/s of memory bandwith at 2ms latencies for their year 2 target, th
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If no one agreed to the NDA, then AMD would get no press (except for press about the NDA like today, and any press is good press, it made you think about AMD), and would have to loosen their NDA a bit.
The problem is that chances are someone agreed to the NDA, shooting their publication in the foot and empowering AMD.
Really this is no different then the arguement over pirating music. If you don't like the agreement, don't use the music in any way, not even pirating it, the music then
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You left out the part where you get sued for disclosing that the product sucked to the someone who didn't sign the non-disclosure agreement and is going to write an article for you.
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Right, then you can release an article like this:
What is their definition of "Confidential" ? (Score:2)
Just think about this a few moment
- If the original NDA was made to allow AMD to filter bad reviews, what would the result be ?
On launch day, the market is flooded with the new product, while the NDA press is flooded with positive review. Then suddenly a couple of day laters (the time it'll take to buy the product by their own means
The most telling review ever (Score:2)
and then had four blank pages.
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Any sensitive, potentially damaging information isn't going to be released to a bunch of journalists, NDA or not.
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But suppose you've got a bunch of journalists trooping through corporate offices for some tour or other, and someone who didn't get the memo has sensitive information like that up on his whiteboard with the office door open?
That's why you have the journalists sign the NDAs. It certainly isn't so that they won't write about what you're planning to show them anyway.
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No technical knowledge? Don't work in tech company (Score:5, Insightful)
"Finally, AMD agreed to let Don and the other journalists attend the event [in Singapore] without signing that particular NDA... On Day 2 though, they were presented with another NDA to sign before a factory visit. [my emphasis] This one stipulated that "any confidential information from this visit would need written approval from corporate communications before it could be used."
It seems quite common that executives of technical companies have no understanding of their company's products, and because of that they sometimes have sink-the-company ideas. It won't matter to the executive if his company does poorly, he will just get a job somewhere else. When the company lays off employees they will suffer, however.
People with no technical knowledge, and little or no interest in learning about their company's products, should be encouraged to get a job somewhere else, or retire. They are dinosaurs from a pre-tech world.
If you are technically knowledgeable, why let someone stupid ruin your efforts? If you get together with other technically knowledgeable people and use some social skill, you can eliminate ignorant executives from your company.
Re:No technical knowledge? Don't work in tech comp (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but if I was an executive of a large vendor in the highly competitive tech sector and I allowed reporters to tour my manufacturing plant without signing an NDA... THAT would be a sink-the-company idea.
You don't give out tours of the factory to give journos the scoop on everything you're working on for the next ten years
Wow. You replied without reading my comment. (Score:2)
The ENTIRE issue, emphasized in bold in my comment is that reporters arrived in Singapore after being told they would not have to sign the extreme NDA that was originally submitted to them. Then, on the second day, when they were in a foreign city and it would be much more difficult to say no, they were asked to sign the original NDA,
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Actually, according the the article that I read (and that you apparently did not) it was a different NDA. And I re-iterate: If you're a reporter for the trade press and you expect to be let onto a factory floor without signing anything, you're an idiot.
That's the NDA process for you (Score:5, Informative)
Having gone through the NDA process a few times, it's been my experience that it's really a negotiation and rarely a "take it or leave it" affair-they wouldn't be talking NDA if they didn't want to talk to you in the first place, so there's usually some flexibility.
What seems to happen is one or both sides offer an initial NDA that's insane (I think just to see what they can get away with, really); then the idea is to try and negotiate towards a sane(r) middle ground. So without knowing any details, the newspaper could have countered with a suggested NDA of their own, and walked away from the table if AMD wouldn't bend. No story for the paper in this case, but AMD also doesn't get the publicity it needs. If it happens enough with other media organizations, AMD ends up having to be a little more flexible if they want any coverage at all.
Apologies to kdawson But... (Score:2)
Ok, AMD paid for a trip for a bunch of journalists to go to their manufacturing facility and listen to some lame marketing talk and have a look around. Is this the problem? Or is the problem that AMD wanted to stipulate "any confidential information from this visit would need written approval from corporate communications before it could be used"? I quote that from Tech ARP since that seems to be the request that caused them to stamp their little feet.
AMD wants to protect their confidential manufacturing
Reading between the lines (Score:3, Interesting)
I think the reason this story is interesting is the hint it gives that AMD is having real trouble getting working Barcelona parts in any volume. Looks to me like they set this thing up because they either hoped to have good news, and then didn't, or because they just want to try to distract people from the Barcelona delays. Either way, seems like baaaaaad news.
All I can say is, I hope they pull out of this.
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Benchmarks and volume shipments are very very different things.
Anyway, you misunderstand me. I'm a long-time AMD fanboi. I'm actually waiting to buy a Barcelona as soon as they come out. Have been since spring. (It's for an upgrade, so I don't have to have it any particular time.) I have no doubts it will be a good chip. But I'm worried about the delay... and the impending release of Penryn. The combination could spell real trouble for AMD.
kdawson (Score:3, Interesting)
Read the corrected/updated story (Score:4, Informative)
Then note how much non-news this really is. A bunch of local yokels got a bit enamored with themselves.
Nothing to see here. Move along and smear somone else.
So, they protect their confidential information? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is either sensationalist or stupid. Looks like it comes from the "information wants to be free" hacker crowd.
Re:So, they protect their confidential information (Score:2)
So don't sign. Buy one off the shelf and review. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds like we get the AMD official reviews monday, and the real reviews after you can buy it.
So how does this bode... (Score:2)
AMD initiates AMD-bashing (Score:2)
What scandal?! Where?!? (Score:2, Interesting)
Too little, too late (Score:2, Interesting)
As a former AMD "fanboy", I'm not impressed. Quad-FX is embarrassing, and Barcelona is lack
Re:another example (Score:5, Informative)
Conclusion?
AMD sucks, the reporter is a hero, and you can't read (or spell).
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Right. The guy accepted a vacation package paid for by AMD, showed up at a fluff PR event in Singapore, then went home without any story at all. What a hero. He better buy a second phone right away, or else the New York Times hiring office might not be able to get through the busy signal.
Re:another example (Score:5, Insightful)
???? He seems to be the only one who got an interesting story at all. Everyone else just printed a bunch of press releases from AMD. Of the hundred (totally guessing) reporters at this event, he's the only one who will stand out in an editor's mind when it comes time to hire someone.
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He's on the front page of one of the biggest web sites in the tech world. Where are the stories from the other "reporters"?
this falls in the "any publicity is good publicity" category.
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Re:another example (Score:4, Funny)
Re:another example (Score:5, Insightful)
It is very very common for secrets to be shared with an NDA. And no just because you are a journalist doesn't give you the "right" to share these secrets when you signed an NDA. This journalist decided not to sign, AMD decided not to share its secrets. End of story.
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WTF, your rights by the Constitution are restrictions on government, not on private entities. You can sign all your rights away except your life or liberty (slavery for instance).
(FTFA) The event was in Singapore. Don't assume that any Constitution they may have operates in the same was as the one in the USA does.
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This probably depends on the country you are in BUT in the US this is incorrect.
See the usury laws for a convent example. You can not sign away rights that are yours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury [wikipedia.org]
You can not sign away your right to vote as another example.
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Back to school for you! (Score:5, Interesting)
Did you sleep all the way through your civics classes? "Freedom of the press" refers to prohibitions by the U.S. Federal government concerning what journalists can publish. Private entities are "free" to restrict how their own confidential information is dispersed.
You really need to get out more often.
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The Univers
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The Universal Declaration of Human Rights indicates: "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive, and impart information and ideas through any media regardless of frontiers".
Yes, this is article 19. It is here pitted against article 12 which states "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.".
In case this wasn't entirely clear: AMD is entirely within their rights to simply close their R&D labs in order to secure this privacy. If and when they invite folks in anyways, then it is
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Just like a person can be sued for wrongful imprisonment, another person can be sued for slander, individuals can sue private entities who infringe on their rights. They may (or may not) be able to make a federal case out of it, but that doesn't mean there aren't protections against these things. Governments (ideally) do two things: protect me from you, and p
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You are also forgetting the NDA is excluding basic human rights organized by the constitution, one of which is the freedom of the press.
NO.
The bill of rights is limits on what the government can do unilaterally through force of law. Those are your constitutional rights, and you may suspend them as you see fit, especially if it gets you some benefit. (For example, if you've ever gotten a DMV ticket, you probably waived your right to a trial by jury to get it over with faster.)
An NDA is a perfectly acceptable contract -- you agree not to tell, and I agree to tell you something I wouldn't otherwise. You could even argue that the NDA is pa
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Re:If the journalist was stupid enough to sign it. (Score:2, Insightful)
The big deal in th
Re:If the journalist was stupid enough to sign it. (Score:5, Insightful)
The journalist in question did not sign the aforementioned NDA. He was expressing his disappointment in the other journalists who did sign the agreement, either out of ignorance or apathy. He's also broadcasting the fact that the so called "independent media" of blogs and citizen journalists may not be as independent as it seems, thanks to agreements like this.
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Excuse me, but when there is no advertisement (or only marginally) involved, and the medium is paid by the people who actually read the stuff, yeah, you get pretty independent media.
Are you really saying "free speech never existed, nothing to see here, please move along!" ...?
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EXACTLY.
The important point here is how AMD has poisoned the well with this action.
Just how much (larger) a gain of salt will I have to take anything I read about their new stuff? I know much of tech media are barely more than shills for those they write about, but this (the initial NDA he refused to sign) goes quite a bit beyon
Re:If the journalist was stupid enough to sign it. (Score:4, Informative)
I know lots of folks don't read the stories, but you could at least try to make it NINE WORDS into the summary before responding! The FIRST SENTENCE of the post was not exactly an SAT-level reading comprehension test.
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AMD is stupid enough to think it should be able to get away with this bullshit.
AMD might be able to get away with it in Singapore? I wonder if Singaporean journalists just get used to the censorship that their (benign and efficient, but totally authoritarian) government imposes on them. I mean, after you've been self-censoring for the government for your whole career, what's the big deal if some other power-that-be start making similar demands?
Of course, there are groups -- particularly among journalists, actually -- who want more freedom of speech. But the devil's advocate ins
Re:If the journalist was stupid enough to sign it. (Score:4, Insightful)
While the article goes on to imply that that statement is the equivalent of agreeing to let AMD rape the reporter's baby, I just don't see it. They are bringing these guys into a private building where trade secrets are in use and don't want it all published in some article or blog.
I fail to see the egregiousness here. What's more I don't see how anyone with even half a brain would see anything wrong here. Please explain what exactly AMD is trying to "get away" with?
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It's AMD's responsibility to keep trade secrets secret. If they don't want a trade secret or confidential material to be reported, don't show it to a bunch of reporters.
Asking reporters to sign NDAs that require ANY "approval" of what is to be published is completely contrary to the entire basis under which the free press operates.
Re:If the journalist was stupid enough to sign it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe the terms of this particular NDA were more restrictive than normal, maybe not. Usually there's a date on which the NDA expires and the info can be released without review (because the company is issuing a press release on that day anyway). But that's typically for upcoming product releases, not visits to R&D labs or the like.
If they don't want a trade secret or confidential material to be reported, don't show it to a bunch of reporters.
Well, they didn't show it to anyone who didn't want to sign the NDA, so what's the big deal? It's up to each individual reporter to decide whether getting that kind of deep background info is worth the restrictions. At least AMD made the offer, giving the choice to the reporters.
Re:If the journalist was stupid enough to sign it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, that's the point -- it's one thing to say "hey', we're going to show you some stuff so that you can do your own research and thinking and be ready to publish whatever you like on July 9th when we release the information to the public".
It's quite another to say "We're going to give you a tour, and by taking the tour you agree to let us review and edit every article you write for the next 5 years that might in some way contain information we could possibly construe as confidential".
The first is essentially a professional courtesy that is advantageous to both sides as well as customers. The latter is just a ridiculous overreach that any journalist (which of course excludes most trade rag writers) would laugh at and reject out of hand.
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If you were really concerned about information getting out, wouldn't YOU want to make sure any stories written be free of NDA violating information? This isn't censorship as much as security.
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Out of curiosity where do you stand on shield laws that reporters are saying they need to protect confidential sources? I mean the source is part of the story, any failure to report on the source would be completely contrary to the entire basis under which the free press operates.
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Shield laws don't state that reporters HAVE to protect sources, the laws state that reporters MAY protect sources if they choose to do so. The free press operates on the basis that reporters should be able to write what they feel is newsworthy, without having to ask permission from anyone but their editor or the guy
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Your free press certainly doesn't sound any freer than what AMD is suggesting.
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I'm not sure how you think that AMD requiring reporters to submit stories for approval fits into my free press. Is AMD the editor or the publisher?
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So you imagine that a reporter who gets a rare sneak-peek into an Intel R&D lab can write whatever e wants without signing an NDA? I think you're ignorant of both, high-tech AND journalism.
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The journalist did and frankly, so do I. Sure, AMD can refuse to show the journalist anything at all but that is still better than reading an article from a seemingly independent journalist who was effectively made a puppet of AMD through an overreaching NDA. An NDA can be okay but this one is excessive since it compromises the journalist's independence.
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This is akin to bitching about a beta testing games NDA and then still continue in the beta.
If you don't like the terms of the deal, then don't go through with it.
Re:If the journalist was stupid enough to sign it. (Score:4, Informative)
How the bloody hell is a story about a company wanting to control the marketing of it's own products news?
Re:If the journalist was stupid enough to sign it. (Score:5, Informative)
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Because 'publish in marketing' does not make sense, 'used' must be bound to 'in marketing' and the meaning of the phrase becomes 'publish' OR 'used in marketing'.
Re:If the journalist was stupid enough to sign it. (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe there's a clause in the non-disclosure agreement where you agree not to disclose that you signed a non-disclosure agreement.
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I think AMD is getting desparate. Intel's Core and Core 2 line of chips have both been better performers than the equivalent AMD parts, and AMD doesn't want to be relegated to its old position of having to compete on price. I think this was AMD's attempt to generate some positive "buzz" around the company to create interest for current and potential shareholders. Something of a "Guys, we really are doing work and not screwing around with your money," sort of thing.
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Dunno about M$, but Intel does it all the time.
And if you want to develop for their platforms - you have to sign them. And you see content of NDA only after you sign it... Not like you have a choice. (*) Business as usual.
(*) That's actually, many manufacturers had run to AMD as soon as it had decent chips (Opterons) in productions. Few like Intel's methods of handling partners.
You talk like Intel wouldn't do the same (Score:2)
NDA is normal, walking away before signing an NDA is also normal.
Wtf is so scandalous here?
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But... did it really work well or this is controlled PR? Looks like you didn't even entertain the possibility. Job well done, AMD!
It's just overzealous NDA agreement. You sign it, you agreed to it, you didn't sign it, you can write AMD sucks and AMD won't say anything.
Intel is far more insidious controlling a
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