KisMAC Developer Discontinues Project 213
mgv writes to let us know that the lead developer of KisMAC, a passive wireless network discovery tool for Mac OS X, is discontinuing the project. Michael Rossberg lives in Germany and that country has recently passed laws that would make his participation dangerous. He urges visitors to take a copy of KisMAC and its source as long as the site is up, so that development might be continued outside the US or EU. From the website: "There has not been a lot of time for KisMAC lately. However the motivation for this drastic step [lies] somewhere different. German laws change and are being adapted for 'better' protection against something politicians obviously do not understand. It will become illegal to develop, use or even posses KisMAC in this banana republic [i.e., Germany]."
The ignorant Arrogance of German politicans. (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Governments do this for one reason (Score:2)
Lost Freedom (Score:2, Interesting)
What bothers me (i've never heard about this software before) is the trend for western countries to move away from individual freedom. I live in Australia, it is happening here - the doctor that was held without charge for 3 weeks [sciencedaily.com]. I know it's happening in the US, but now it seems to be happening in other western countries too. Are there any western countries whose citizens aren't losing their individual freedoms?
At least we are having an inquiry into the matter [news.com.au]. How is it in other countries?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Well.. It's not happening in Brazil.
I guess the politicians here are too busy counting their money.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Possibly Norway; they're not part of the EU. Here in .se, we lose freedom all the time ...
although perhaps not as quickly as e.g. the british.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Does it matter that he was a doctor?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If that is a sufficient reason in itself, my entire family should go in jail straight away because we are going on our next holiday and coming back on a staggered schedule and thus forced to use one-way tickets for all trips. The idiots from British Airways (and most other airlines) do not allow you to have 3 people on the same e-ticket coming out and 2 of them returning on one da
Doesnt work in all Macs (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
I presume you meant macbooks here - it works fine in passive mode with the ibooks, they don't have that chipset. It does work fine with a USB prism chipset 802.11b/g key if you have a macbook.
Michael
Re:Doesnt work in all Macbooks (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
As a bonus, I'm now using WPA2 security, though I don't know how secure it really is thanks
Re: (Score:2)
Intel macs, not "any macs" (Score:2)
FYI: KisMAC doesn't work in passive mode in the latest ibooks with Atheros AR5008 chipset.
You mean Macbook; I know, stupid term, but "iBook" means a completely different platform, albeit in the same market segment. And it doesn't work in any INTEL Macs; it looks like it works, acts like it works- finds some networks- but nothing beyond broadcast SSID frames are recorded, except for a very limited number of people who probably have one specific revision. You're best off with a PPC system.
Frankly, the g
As someone with dual citizienship and.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
The only reason we need guns is to protect us from the sort of jerks who own guns...
TWW
Re: (Score:2)
From what I have read, the rebels in the colonies were pretty clear on this when they were setting up a self-governing system way back in the
Re: (Score:2)
Because violence did not exist before firearms.
Re: (Score:2)
Ignoring for the moment the practical problems in placing the apple back on the tree, the existence of firearms within American society is at best orthogonal to violence. We have proportionally high rates of assault using other weapons such as knives, bats, and a variety of household items. Unless you can successfully argue that the proliferation of firearms incr
Re: (Score:2)
So we need guns to protect us from the jerks that have them.
Government is set up at our convenience. We control whether it lives or dies. And the Constitution is ours... not theirs.
Dream on, kid.
TWW
3 hour tour (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
"He urges visitors to take a copy of KisMAC and its source as long as the site is up, so that development might be continued outside the US or EU."
OSS-friendly laws and practices can be established in a new island country. Security research could also be done without being visited by mean corporate lawyers or the FBI.
Re: (Score:2)
Somebody with mod points is traversing their foes list. It figures.
Those of us without points today appreciate your suggestion, point to Sealand as an example of What Not To Do, and suggest that Cuba might be up for sale soon.
New country? (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
"banana republic" (Score:2)
It's amazing when someone calls his own country a "banana republic".
Managers who were older than 20 when the personal computer revolution began have seldom bothered to learn about the new technology. I guess we will just have to wait until the old dinosaurs retire.
Re: (Score:2)
I personally develop Thermochemical real-time control devices; the owner of the company I work for doesn't own a computer, and all his email is managed by his secretary. He is a brilliant mechanical engineer and a good businessman, much more competent than the email/berry/collaboration obsessed middle-managers that you probably consider the tech-savvy personnel that should lead companies.
Somewhat OT: Managers (Score:3, Interesting)
So if the owner of the company you work for has hired a competent CIO and lets him do his job, that is perfectly OK. In my experience, those who are halfway tech-savvy and start micromanaging things cause a lot more problems.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, most people living in western, progressive countries are very critical towards their own country. There are a few countries where stupid jingoism is rampant, and interestingly, these are often the among the more backwards ones.
I'd say being critical towards your own country is one of the signs of a progressive, enlightened society, and an important part of a working democracy.
German goverment also sponsors security tools (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
1. The German government isn't a single entity. One part can make good decisions whereas another can make bad decisions, both at the same time.
2. They may actually be trying to make things better for the citizens, and just making the occassional misstep.
3. Germany is a democracy, and thus, the government changes.
No source tarballs? (Score:2)
From the project FAQ:
I was going to download it (as a gesture; my only Mac runs Linux) but no way I'm going to install SVN just for that! Odd decision, not even providing weekly builds ...
kismac was a great tool (Score:2)
For those who haven't used it, it is significantly better than kismet for linux. It brings together kismet, and a number of other open source tools for wep cracking and integrates them into a easy to use UI. It is pretty trivial (point and click) to break a wep network with kismac. I've tried the same
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Eventually you are missing the point. KisMac is a tool that can discover APs and Point to Point wireless network, Crack WEP, Crack WAP (given a dictionary) and make Injection Attacks with selected hardware (prism cards mostly). So it's just not a purely listening software neither limited to only apple basestations (Airport).
So long the problem is that Germany choose to make illegal tampering with telecomunications, which could be good, but eventually forgot to leave a exception of fair use for research
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Like the Exam Fee of MCSE: http://www.whizlabs.com/mcse-exam/70-290.html [whizlabs.com]
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Its a cracking tool (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, I have used it a bit, and I'm no professional. But having shown people how quickly their encryption fails is a good thing.
At the end of the day, your comment is one of security through obscurity.
Kismac doesn't hack the unhackable, it can however open up access points that are much less secure than their owners think, mostly due to failures by the vendors to use proper algorithms. Why this should bother you is unclear to me.
At the end of the day, the vendors are more likely to change their hardware if this sort of tool is widely available. If it was kept obscure, most hardware vendors would never patch their access points.
I've used it alot, but never actually hacked into anyone's computer by using it.
Its likely to be forked anyway and exist on in another country...
Michael (as the original poster of the article).
Re: (Score:2)
I rather liked it :)
/. and it met the essential criteria - I liked it more than my previous .sig - It describes the futility of DRM better than anything else I could say...
I'm not sure where it comes from - I don't think its a Schneier quote and I've had a quick search on google & wikiquote to try and find the reference - I can't.
Someone posted this on
Michael
Re: (Score:2)
You're entitled to your opinion. As stupid as it is, you have the right to hold it. Allegedly, Lenin had a name for people like you. [wikipedia.org]
NTITE
Re: (Score:2)
It's a cracking tool! More cheese Grommet!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I appreciate having a nice easily installed package because if I'm looking to test a particular aspect of the network for security, I'm not looking to spend 15 hours getting the tool working in the first place. Alternatively you could provide the nice easily installed package commercially - for a fee - but then you're assuming that those with criminal intent have neither money nor means of pirating. Both of which are patently untru
Re:Its a cracking tool (Score:5, Insightful)
No matter what kind of bullshit laws get put into place to restrict 'cracking tools' - criminals will have them. Legally sticking your head in the sand will not make you any safer. Far better that tools like this are spread far and wide so that countermeasures, or at least recognition of the problems, are also spread far and wide.
Re:Its a cracking tool (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not to restrict the tools, it's just so they have more things to accuse you of when you're charged to get something to stick.
Re:Its a cracking tool (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course driving and drinking everyone knows, so making them illegal would never even come into question.
Re: (Score:2)
If a government wants you in jail they don't need stuff like anti-terrorism laws to do it. All they have to do pick some obscure small local, state, federal statute, search your house and arrest you.
What? Look at that copy of Michael Jackson on tape! Please produce the original AND the receipt. Don't have it? Well that's 5 years in jail and $50,0000 per copy!
Now there is a little exaggeration going on above (just a little) but democraci
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Its a cracking tool (Score:5, Insightful)
Under German law, now, even nmap could be considered evil. Tools like this and kismac are mostly used to see if your pants are around your ankles with regards to your network, either home or commercial.
Why should people with home networks not have this tool available? The German law is stupid and makes everyone a victim while not taking the tools out of the hands of people who will use them anyway for nefarious purposes.
I can kill people with a hammer, or I can use it to build things. I choose the latter. Should we outlaw hammers because some people illegaly misuse them?
--
BMO
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Brings to mind the riots in Sydney about a year ago. A sporting goods shop almost sold out of baseball bats in a couple of hours. The manager called the police to ask for a suggested course of action. The cops suggested the store stop selling baseball bats for the time being.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That is a difficult one. Whilst I think that the problem there is the person, not the bat, sometimes it is worth restricting some actions. I think that even the most pro gun supporter would say there is a limit on selling weapons. Its j
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Its a cracking tool (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Or something like that.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Its a cracking tool (Score:4, Insightful)
Kismet showed some family members why they needed both wireless encryption and MAC filtering. Telling them I was going to log every IM conversation, and then showing them the logs went a ways towards convincing them that their wireless was not really all that secure. They now know that MAC filtering only keeps out the honest, and WEP only hides their data with a thin layer of gauze, but at least it is their informed choice now.
Kismet and other wireless scanners have helped me pick out channels for my router based on where they have the least interference. I blame a cranky windows 'wireless assist tool' for picking the strongest AP instead of the one I select, but since it was what I was dealing with I just made the best out of it.
And yes, wireless scanners have also found me open hotspots to connect to when I am traveling. If the coffee shop leaves it on after hours, how am I supposed to ask for permission anyways?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Well, that particular example was some time ago, but I believe it was AIM. I think that was back between '00 and '03 but if I tried to narrow it down someone would probably point out that I couldn't have used Kismet since it was only release last month or something.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Its a cracking tool (Score:4, Informative)
Umm, all of the most-used ones? AFAIK, Google Talk is the only one of the popular networks that does it, and that's because it's based on XMPP (Jabber).
Yahoo, MSN, AIM/ICQ, none of them have encryption. Whenever I find someone using Pidgin/Gaim I can convince them to install a plugin like gaim-encryption, but my buddies who use the official clients are sitting ducks (and me along with them).
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I turn on my computer, their AP says 'hey, I'm a network, connect to me.' My wireless card says 'hey, I'm MAC address 11-11-11-11-11-11, can I please connect,' and their AP says sure.
The locked door analogy just doesn't cut it. Think of the coffee shop having a robot butler that they forget to program correctly. It serves at all hours instead of just working hours. Who's fault would that be? Now, take y
Re: (Score:2)
Unless, of course, they have tiered pricing based upon bandwidth used. Or, to extend your analogy, it may be possible that those other channels are pay-per-view
Re: (Score:2)
As there are two Michael's posting here, I'm just guessing you aren't referring to me...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Of course not. Done properly, it would automatically fill the key in for you.
Michael
Re: (Score:2)
You ought to file that as a feature request for both GNOME and KDE.
(Seriously, why not? It's not as if networks using weak encryption would have actually been secure anyway; this just provides better usability!)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
You've been listening to Alberto Gonzales talk about the Constitution [thinkprogress.org] again, haven't you?
Re:Seems like a waste (Score:4, Insightful)
Well if he were going to do that he probably wouldn't announce it.
Re: (Score:2)
Cant let his secret identity get out can he?
Re: (Score:2)
Running the official KisMAC website is a big no-no in that context.
Risk (Score:2)
Re:Can he continue 'remotely'? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Can he continue 'remotely'? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
What are the linux/windows alternatives to this 'product' anyways?
Unless I'm mistaken (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
My German friends laughed at me because of my guns.
"Why would you need that unless you are going to kill someone?" they said.
"To protect myself from others who have them" I said.
"Then why don't they make them illegal?" they said.
Not trying to start an endless gun argument here, but that analogy is flawed. You wouldn't be able to accidentially kill or hurt someone with this piece of software. And while you'd want to keep the program out of your kids' reach (as soon as they're computer literate enough to use it), if they did manage to get their hands on it, they couldn't endanger themselves and others by playing with it the same way they could if they found a gun.
No matter what you think about gun ownership, the potential consequenc
Re: (Score:2)
Seems to me that's a fairly strong case. Gun control didn't take away everyone's guns (you can still have hunting/recreational weapons and you can get
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What it's not going to stop are people determined to get what's on your network, so the gun argument is specious. Gun control laws are designed to cut back on "non-professional" or impulse-based murders. There's no illusion that an assassin or someone who has made the premeditated decision and plan to kill someo
Re: (Score:2)
Iraq as an example of a success? (Score:2)
Seems like a bit of a mess out there to me and that things would be better sorted out by unarmed people talking their way through their problems rather than shooting their way through them. You may remember that revolutions have als
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Most revolutions need the power of an armed populace, even if said power is not used. The power of the people
Re: (Score:2)
Wait for the "fork". The code will be moved to another site, and I suspect that development will continue on.
No need to reinvent the wheel...
Michael
Re: (Score:2)
No. From iStumbler's FAQ:
KisMAC puts a wire