Japan to Tax All Unlicensed Wireless Devices? 75
Chicken Ranch writes "It's not just about wireless networking. This tax would apply to a range of devices from WLAN to RFID to Cordless Phones to Remote Control Cars. Basically, if it operates in an unlicensed band, the government wants a tribute. So would they still call it an 'unlicensed' band?"
Even Bluetooth? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Japanese consumers already pay a yearly 420 Yen fee for each mobile phone.
Re:Even Bluetooth? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Double, triple taxation, whatever. Look at this way: they do it here in the States. You get taxed on the money you make, then you pay your mortgage. You get taxed on the value of your house (and the longer you pay your mortgage, the more your house is generally worth). You then get taxed on everything you buy. Somethings you buy you get taxed on extra because they are either luxury items (excise tax), bad for you ("sin" tax), or are otherwise taxed anyway (gas, oil, communications servic
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Dude, haven't you ever seen Lost? And I suppose you also believe that smoke monsters only live in the Arctic circle, too...
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"Who wants to bet that you're a troll who doesn't know how to close his tags properly?"
No, I was just too busy eating breakfast with one hand and typing with the other before heading into the office.
So, truth hurts about some Americans having a poor knowledge of the rest of the world? [google.com] Mistaking Australia for Iran, North and South Korea, and France ... (and if you look around, you can find other parts of the clip where they say that a triangle has 4 sides and no sides, that the official religion of Israel
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As an aside, for some reason I'm not yet aware of the Japanese basically do not use Bluetooth headsets at all. It's rather weird.
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As a result, they are the masters of constant "quick-typing for quick-Email-messaging" from/to friends, all the time. It's quiet, it's in line with canonic politeness, it's the current standard for communic
RFIDs? Submitters should RTFA (Score:5, Interesting)
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A mirror is not a light bulb.
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Money? (Score:5, Insightful)
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They are good for politicians in two ways. First, they raise funds almost invisibly - tech companies are always cutting the cost of their kit, and this just means the cost goes down a little slower, so there are no complaints from the consumer.
Second, you need a bunch of administrators to collect the tax. These people owe their living to the tax and the government, so they a
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You could be right, but Japanese cities are very densely populated compared to most Western cities -- even New York. 'Local' can involve a lot more people than in typical US or European environments. Also, the culture is loaded with alternate ways of doing things that are not necessarily illogical, ju
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No mention in the article if it'd be a one time fee when the equipment is purchased, or an annual fee like the cell phone tax or the british TV tax.
Even with the fee, it would take police resources of an epic proportions, armed with sophisticated equipment to track most illegal broadcasters down, defi
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"Wants a tribute"? (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a -proposal-, not a law, not even something someone has said 'I want this to happen'. They are looking into ways to control "illegal" radio stations.
It's quite obvious to anyone that even glances at it that it not only won't stop things that are already illegal, but that it will adversely affect many people it wasn't intended to.
BTW, that 420 yen yearly tax per mobile phone is about $3.50 US. -yawn- As if we don't already spend a hell of a lot more than that in the US. (Hint: It's on your cellphone bill every month.)
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The Slide it in your Ass *ahem* System Access Fee.
Network upkeep, maintenance, not a government fee, yadda yadda...
or... a way of making the monthly rate of the plan itself look cheaper at the point of sale.
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So it's an unelected corporation taking the money off you rather than the government (who would presumably spend it on public projects rather than shareholder dividends); you're still paying more than you'd necessarily have to otherwise.
GSM duopoly matches political duopoly (Score:2)
Network upkeep, maintenance, not a government fee, yadda yadda...
So it's an unelected corporation taking the money off you
Of course the mobile phone market is elected. American GSM customers can choose AT&T or T-Mobile, just like American voters can choose the Republican Party or the Democratic Party.
rather than the government (who would presumably spend it on public projects rather than shareholder dividends)
"Shareholder dividends" sounds a lot like pork [wikipedia.org].
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Well, it does seem to be a good way of eliciting informative responses to the article, such as yours
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Maybe someone wouldn't see the obvious logic of the problem above and might have some doubts. But thats ok because if the majority think its okay then it must be! Thats the beauty of democracy.
Re:"Wants a tribute"? (Score:5, Insightful)
As (rudely) noted by the other responder, it's a yearly fee, not monthly, for Japan.
Why is it any different than any other regulated service? If we want the government to regulate something, we have to give them money to be able to do it. $3.50 a year seems awful low to regulate the cellphone industry, if you ask me. But then, maybe they aren't such assholes over there, and don't have to slapped back into line so often.
Over here (in the US), the money for that comes from other taxes. If corner drug dealer has 5 cellphones, and I only have 1, why shouldn't he pay more taxes? And the neighbor down the road that has no cellphone... Why should he sponsor regulation of my luxury item?
At any rate, let's be clear on this: The taxes WILL be collected. They may not specifically say 'this is a cellphone tax' but the money WILL come from the tax payer.
Taxes for road repair come (at least partially) from gasoline.
Taxes for helping smokers get medical care for lung cancer come from... Cigarettes, now, but there was a time they didn't. The burden was correctly moved to those who choose to smoke, knowing the risks. (If my mother can quit, anyone can.)
Why should cellphones be any different?
The problem here is not the tax, but the law that goes with it. It doesn't do what it's designed to, and has adverse effects on those unrelated to the problem.
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That is because here in the USA the general VOTING populace tents to vote for the silver-spoon, seperated from reality, mentially challenged and not the guy that has a level head and common sense. This pervades every public office from President down to Citiy council.
Americans are easily swayed by soundbites and flashy commercials.
A level headed Person has no chance, they dont cater to the voting m
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Japan hasn't been Imperial since the end of WWII, they are a democracy now, though a little different than the US model, they are still a democracy.
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Don't have a whole lot of choice? Compared to the U.S.? Are you fucking kidding me?
Let's compare, shall we?
Major Japanese political parties:
Liberal Democratic Party (right wing) - 115 elected members of the upper house, 296 elected members of the lower house
Democratic Party (left wing) - 83 elected members of the up
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Thanks for correcting me. (And no, I'm not being sarcastic. I don't enjoy ignorance.)
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My guess is that the idea of 'democracy' is based on the presupposition that people are 'equal' (within a 'reasonable' range).
With exponential distributions everywhere (income [arxiv.org] the most obvious) the model gets as flawed as 'communism' was in the Soviet Union.
CC.
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No, the beauty of democracy is that you are not forced to use a cell phone if you do not agree with the $3.50 yearly fee. Or you could realize that the benefit of paying the fee outweighs the inconvenience of having to find pay phones all the time... Or you could raise a fleet of carrier pigeons to deliver your m
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It's probably best to look into details of proposals and raise a stink before they become law. Doing so would have saved us a whole lot of trouble with things like the Patriot Act which was passed almost completely unread by the people passing it, much less their constituents.
Waiting until something is already law to complain about it is like buying a fire extinguisher as a means of fire prevention.
(Hint: It's on your cellphone bill every month.)
That is true and is one of the
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Like me, I doubt most of the people responding to this have little to no knowledge of Japanese law and government. Is the $3.50 the only tax they pay on their phones? The article sure makes it sound that way, but I have no idea.
My point is that everyone is getting indignant about a proposal in a society they know nothing about that proposes a tax
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Might want to stifle that yawn - incrementalism is how America got so screwed up.
Tax vs. License (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't need a license to buy things, but you have to pay sales tax.
You need a license to drive, but as long as it's not your car you don't have to pay taxes on it.
You need a license to operate a ham radio, but you don't pay any more taxes than if you didn't.
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When I do some things (own property, buy goods) I have to pay the government some money, and it's called a tax.
When I do other things (drive, operate a radio) I have to pay the goverment some money, and it's called a license.
Yes, I see the distinction clearly now.
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> When I do some things (own property, buy goods) I have to pay the government some money, and it's called a tax.
> When I do other things (drive, operate a radio) I have to pay the goverment some money, and it's called a license.
A license shows competence in a field and grants the holder the right to do that thing. Not all licenses are granted by government agencies. Some, as from some professional organizations, grant the license and get the money. These may or may not follow rules as set
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Furthermore WiFi, Bluetooth, RC, RFID etc. are in the part of the spectrum that is not "unlicensed" on a world wide scale, as the summary would like us to believe - this part of the spectrum is just reserved for "other" purposes, meaning that the goverments will not decide to use the spectrum to issue other "licensed" services. Basically a bunch of governments has decided to wall-off part of the spectrum (which is of course a scarse natural resource belonging to a particular country) and not use it
Re:Tax vs. License (Score:4, Interesting)
If, to take one example, the 2.4GHz band was truly unlicensed, your local regulatory authority couldn't stop you from hooking up a waveguide and external antenna to the magnetron of your microwave oven and splattering all the WiFi in the neighbourhood. But, because all such equipment is class licenced, you'd be operating it outside the conditions of the equipment license and they'll in fact come down on you like a ton of bricks...
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I don't understand (Score:5, Interesting)
Broadcast anything without license and you risk jail sentence, in particular if you interfere with commercial or military frequencies.
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I'm sure the healthcare providers (who are reimbursed by the government for 70% of patients' fees) will find it difficult to put up much resistance.
From the article: The rationale behind the charge appears to be the Ministry's desire to control "illegal" "radio stations" and to promote "efficient" RF spectrum utilization. Japanese consumers already pay a yearly 420 Yen fee for each mobile phone.
Some advice, government: just skip the silly rationales and say what you're thinking, which is, "We want more
Isn't that what `bribe` means? (Score:1)
Wireless Sensor Networks (Score:3, Interesting)
Hypothetical of how Government works (Score:1)
Government hack #2: "That sounds fine, but how would you like to pay for it?"
GH1: "I don't know, how about reducing one of the programs that doesn't do much good for those (insert constituency not represented by GH1)."
GH2: "Stop right there, that underperforming program was part of my platform
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"Pubic" sector bliss? (Score:1)
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Honestly, these past ten years I think we've heard more than enough about the "pubic sector" bliss of our duly elected officials.
Tax ALL wireless devices (Score:2)
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They are talking about raising the license fee (and incurring a whole lot of paperwork: someone's going to have to register all of those paid-for licenses.)
Reminds me of a toll bridge near me whose toll revenue just barely paid for t
If I was japanese (Score:2)
Timed for Wireless Expo (Score:2)
But the tax or whatever it is would be a large percentage of the cost of household devices, not just radio control robots (and how do you get them to pay yearly anyway??) but also zig
Whoa.. (Score:2)
Well... (Score:1)