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Robotics Science

Robot Submarine Maps World's Deepest Sinkhole 123

Posted by kdawson from the submerge-the-Chrysler-Building dept.
holy_calamity writes "The world's deepest water-filled sinkhole has finally been mapped — by a robotic submarine whose descendants may one day swim on one of Jupiter's moons. The last attempt to find the bottom resulted in the SCUBA diving depth record and the death of a diving legend. The sub's sonar found that the divers had descended to only about 10m from the floor. The sub's mapping also indicated that the sinkhole, which is over 300m deep, could connect to even deeper caves."
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Robot Submarine Maps World's Deepest Sinkhole More

Robot Submarine Maps World's Deepest Sinkhole

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  • Mel's Hole? (Score:5, Funny)

    by WED Fan ( 911325 ) <akahige@NOspAm.trashmail.net> on Tuesday May 22, 2007 @11:33PM (#19231793) Homepage Journal

    Mel's Hole [wikipedia.org]

    • Re:Mel's Hole? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ricree ( 969643 ) on Tuesday May 22, 2007 @11:37PM (#19231819)
      I know that wikipedia isn't exactly the world's most reliable source, but why in the heck hasn't that article been deleted yet.

      • Re:Mel's Hole? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by WED Fan ( 911325 ) <akahige@NOspAm.trashmail.net> on Tuesday May 22, 2007 @11:50PM (#19231901) Homepage Journal

        Are you kidding? Art Bell would descend with his minions claiming "Government Cover-Up" if they deleted it.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Babbster ( 107076 )
        Why would it be deleted?

        A) It's hilarious.
        2) It's a recounting of the guy's tall tales and doesn't seem to allege the truth of the stories. It's thus as valid as many other entries that discuss fables, comic books, etc.
        #) It's hilarious. The story of the alternate-universe dimes is reason enough to keep the article in perpetuity!

      • Re:Mel's Hole? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Whiney Mac Fanboy ( 963289 ) * <whineymacfanboy@gmail.com> on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @12:20AM (#19232071) Homepage Journal
        I know that wikipedia isn't exactly the world's most reliable source, but why in the heck hasn't that article been deleted yet.

        For the same reason that articles on Leprechauns or the Piltdown Man [wikipedia.org] aren't deleted. So someone can go & read about them, find out they're not real things, and the read the story of how the hoax/myth/whatever was perpetutated.

        • That's true, but the introductory sentences have the wrong tone. I'm not sure how exactly to fix it, but it sounds too much like something out of Uncyclopedia (or maybe the Onion).

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by evilviper ( 135110 )

          someone can go & read about them, find out they're not real things, and the read the story of how the hoax/myth/whatever was perpetutated.

          The gaping hole in that theory, is that the Mel's Hole article doesn't bother to corroborate or contradict any of the evidence offered, even though much of it would be trivially easy to track down... Large checks and non-profits don't just appear and disappear without a paper trail. Not to mention travel records, alibis, etc., etc.

          The Piltdown Man article specifical

          • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward
            Most people would be able to figure things out when they got to this, the second sentence: "Despite extensive efforts, the hole has never been located by anyone else, and none of Mel's claims about it have ever been confirmed." But then again, such alarm bells might not ring for the average slashdotter...
        • But the article is stubbed as disputed. I do not think it should be deleted, as it is a great artifact of human stupidity.

        • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward
          It's nominated for deletion and most of the votes are Deletes. So pretty soon, people looking for information on the subject - maybe people reading through an archive of this discussion - won't find anything on Wikipedia.

          Wikipedia's policies on deleting information are ridiculous and stupid. Notability filtering has no place on an online encyclopedia. After the barrage of negative mainstream press articles a few years ago, they really sold out. I guess they just want to be the online equivalent of a paper e
    • if the info about Mel's Hole in wikipedia is true and this is Mel's hole who would have gone down into that thing? The article says some one went in with just SCUBA gear. That is nasty.

    • Re:Mel's Hole? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Skevin ( 16048 ) * on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @12:09AM (#19232005) Journal
      The goatse guy is named Mel? You learn something new every day.

      Solomon

    • Those bastards (Score:5, Funny)

      by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @12:26AM (#19232099)
      I can understand the "man" taking Mel's hole away from him, possibly to store with the Ark in that large warehouse.

      But shutting down his wombat-rescue operation? That's just plain mean.

      • But shutting down his wombat-rescue operation? That's just plain mean.

        Perhaps his hole was a giant wombat hole. I for one wouldn't want to mess with a three metre wombat. Nothing like that has been seen for 100000 years. I think the Government did the right thing to suppress information about the Hole.

      • The wombat was infinitely deep, too. It also turned a sheep into Seal (due to bad grammar), who then went on to become a hit musician.
    • That's hilarious - some guy pops up and claims to have found a magic hole and people believe him.... Hey everybody, I have found a magic speed bump. I'm not gonna tell you where it is, or show you pictures of it, but if you drive over it, you will be able to raise the dead!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tzanger ( 1575 )

        Hey everybody, I have found a magic speed bump. I'm not gonna tell you where it is, or show you pictures of it, but if you drive over it, you will be able to raise the dead!

        I bet if you drive over any speed bump fast enough, the dead will at least jump...

    • I just went from Mel's Hole to Charles Manson to Helter Skelter to Arthur Brown to Alice Cooper to Alice Cooper in Popular Culture. Once again I thank Wikipedia for enabling me to waste my time following a bizarre series of encyclopedia entries.

  • its descendants? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 22, 2007 @11:35PM (#19231807)
    > robotic submarine whose descendants may one day swim on one of Jupiter's moons

    Wow, robot submarine sex! I wonder if it has the hots for one of those mars rovers...

    • Wow, robot submarine sex! I wonder if it has the hots for one of those mars rovers...
      More importantly, does it have a robe and wizard hat?

  • It's Jules Verne! (Score:3, Funny)

    by able1234au ( 995975 ) on Tuesday May 22, 2007 @11:47PM (#19231887)
    > The sub's mapping also indicated that the sinkhole, which is over 300m deep, could connect to even deeper caves.

    So begins the journey to the centre of the earth

  • Deep Diving Risks (Score:5, Interesting)

    by wildsurf ( 535389 ) on Tuesday May 22, 2007 @11:54PM (#19231933) Homepage
    This reminds me of the amazing (and sobering) story of Dave Shaw [away.com], who perished in a deep freshwater cavern trying to recover the body of a fellow diver. Quite a read, if you have 20 minutes.

    • Re:Deep Diving Risks (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Joaz Banbeck ( 1105839 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:05AM (#19232295)
      Quite a sad tale as I recall. Shows the dangers of nitrogen narcosis. Makes your judgement horrible.

      Shaw made one serious mistake: he had a plan, and when something went wrong - the corpse's head came off - he tried to modify the plan at 800+ ft below, instead of going up to safety and making a new plan. ( Can't say I would have done better, though )

      • Re:Deep Diving Risks (Score:5, Insightful)

        by flyingsquid ( 813711 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @02:49AM (#19232789)
        Personally, I think the bigger mistake was first putting himself in a situation where even the slightest misstep could result in death. He pushed his luck, and his luck ran out. Outside Magazine just loves this kind of death-by-adventure story. There was the one about the kid who went into the backwoods of Alaska to live off the land and starved to death, and there was the one about all the people who died in a storm on Everest (both appeared first in the magazine and were later written up as Into The Wild and Into Thin Air, respectively, both by Jon Krakauer).

        But I have a hard time crying too much about those stories where someone takes a lot of risks and then dies. Either you're incompetent and in over your head, in which case you deserve whatever you get. Or, you know the risks but take them anyway, figuring a potentially short, but adventure-filled life is better than a long, boring, risk-averse one, in which case you knew exactly what you were getting into, so you can't complain too much. Still, they do make for great reading.

        • Re:Deep Diving Risks (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Comatose51 ( 687974 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @04:21AM (#19233267) Homepage
          I'm not sure if people like him needs anyone to feel sorry for or to even pass any judgment on him. From the article, his friends certainly didn't. They accepted the fact and that was it. He accepted the risks and knew that there's always an element of chance. His luck ran out and he's dead. There's a great deal of stoicism that I admire in people like that. If all of us waited until all the conditions were 100% right, nothing amazing will ever be achieved.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Prune ( 557140 )
            Mod parent "+1, He Gets It"
          • Exactly, it's his own fault he's dead but he knew that might be the case when he set off and so did the other divers.

            He wanted the rewards of successfully recovering a body from that depth more than he worried about dying in the attempt and that's a perfectly rational judgement, it is people like this who push boundaries and it's good that they do.
          • "If all of us waited until all the conditions were 100% right, nothing amazing will ever be achieved."

            Or we'd work for NASA. And yes.
            • My Kingdom for a Mod point! Ah, but then I'd have to choose between "funny" and "insightful", when it deserves both. Oh, well.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Viol8 ( 599362 )
            "nothing amazing will ever be achieved"

            True , but whats that got to do with deep diving? Its not amazing , just pointless and boring.
        • We all die. Sooner or later. We all die.

          I've pushed many limits, mostly jumping out of reasonably good aircraft. I've also gone big water rafting where death was a real possibility. Been scuba diving in places where I really should not have been (OK, that wasn't co clever). All that time I had no real dependants. I have scars and broken bones to show for my troubles. But I also have experienced life in a way that most people never will.

          It is intense like most people cannot imagine. The highs are Huge.... so

          • Re:One thing is certain... (Score:4, Insightful)

            by gEvil (beta) ( 945888 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @08:50AM (#19234643)
            We all die. Sooner or later. We all die.

            I recently watched a few people get into a flamefest on another site because someone made the comment that "America is tied for first for the highest mortality rate." It was great watching all the "America: Love it or leave it" people come out saying there was no way that was possible and calling the guy a troll and telling him that America was the greatest country so it couldn't be true, etc. None of them seemed to be able to figure out that the guy was saying "everyone dies". : p
            • It was raising awareness of a particular disease. I can't remember the disease, but the poster stated something along the lines of

                      30% of people born with this genetic disorder will eventually die.

              The corollary I presume is that the remaining 70% are immortal. While I don't want to die any time soon, I think being actually immortal could be a drag.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Rycross ( 836649 )
                I had a friend who wrote an essay on the dangers of oxygen addiction. One of the facts was that 100% of people addicted to oxygen eventually die.
        • You are right, but how boring would the world be if no one ever pushed boundaries?

          I'm a rock climber, kayaker and pilot. I like to push boundaries, but I try to do it with a realistic assessment of my skills and with planning for an out if things should go wrong. Personally, I find that life is much more enjoyable and fulfilling when you challenge yourself.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by 4D6963 ( 933028 )

        As I understood it, it wasn't the head coming off the problem, it was the body being loose instead of stuck, making it hard to put in the bag.

        Anyways, that story was creepy.

        • Now that you mention it, that was the underlying problem; I just remember the head because a goulish friend of mine made a crack about 'keeping your head about you while diving'.
    • That was an incredible and disturbing story. I was actually holding my breath waiting for the last pages to load.

      Extreme cave diving is not altogether sane i think.
    • Thanks a lot for the article. Incredible, sad, yet still good in a way. Like his friend, I can't feel sorry for him. That's just the risk he accepted. In the end, he got the job done, which brings the whole story to a good ending.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Fizzl ( 209397 )
      Very captivating story. I just don't like the way they had to have a "bad guy" in the story and thus the documentary maker was painted as such.

  • Holy shit, that is deep.... (Score:5, Informative)

    by (H)elix1 ( 231155 ) * <slashdot.helix@nOSPaM.gmail.com> on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @12:11AM (#19232019) Homepage Journal
    Wow. Just wow. This guy was trying for a 1000' dive? This guy did a 400' dive on air? Just as a few notes. With the PADI (recreational) diving, you can hit about 90' before you have to start dealing with decompression. 130' and you start hitting nitrogen narcosis as O2 gets toxic as the pressure increases. I've got buddies who are crazy enough to hang tanks and do 160' on air, and even they both admit that one was feeling a bit drunk/stupid from air and had been rescued by their buddy. After the third time, they gave up on the deep O2 dives.

    • Re:Holy shit, that is deep.... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Fuji Kitakyusho ( 847520 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:13AM (#19232341)
      Crazy. I've done ~380 fsw on trimix, with four different decompression gases, and it was a logistical headache. I know that one team has done the Edmund Fitzgerald on SCUBA, but at those depths the logistical issues, risks and costs escalate to the point that you have to wonder what you are gaining over surface supported surface supply or saturation diving - a much safer option than SCUBA. Stunts like the one Sheck pulled, or those by Jim Bowden, etc., are nothing more than showboating for the sake of setting records. Problem is, the record you set might not be the one you were shooting for. (Most preventable death award goes to...)

      With trimix being so accessable now, it doesn't make any sense to me why anyone would continue to endanger themselves by doing deep dives on air. Actually, considering the widespread availability of nitrox, using air for any diving whatsoever doesn't really make sense anymore. I don't.

      As for 1000' deep sinkholes, using a ROV is probably the right idea.

      • I'd like to hear more about diving the Fitzy, if you care to expound...
      • Great comment -- always nice to hear from someone who knows what they're talking about. I used to dive a lot, but scared myself one too many times (I narc way too easily, and I don't like being stupid). I'm strictly a shallow-water dabbler now.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Bishop ( 4500 )
        The advantages of trimix are not so clear cut. Insuring that the gas is blended properly with the correct mix of gases is a problem. The risks of diving on air can be managed. I know a number of very good experienced divers who only use air as the risks are well known.
        • At the risk of taking this thread way off on a tangent, ensuring that gas is properly mixed is not really a problem - it just requires a bit of diligence to do properly - i.e. patience, thorough analysis, and willingness to dump the gas at considerable expense and start over if you screw up. Yes, the risks of diving air are well known and can be managed. Specifically: For deep dives: 1) Risk of narcosis - managed by replacing nitrogen with helium. (i.e. using trimix) 2) Risk of oxygen toxicity - managed

    • Re:Holy shit, that is deep.... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by QuantumG ( 50515 ) <qg@biodome.org> on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @02:07AM (#19232607) Homepage Journal
      Wonder if we'll ever have nanotech suits that make diving as safe as a submarine (or, hopefully, safer).

      Then I guess you'll have divers who wish for the good old days when you had to have skill to dive.

      A similar technology for space suits is probably a lot easier though. Only a single atmosphere of pressure, and a near vacuum environment.

      • Wonder if we'll ever have nanotech suits that make diving as safe as a submarine (or, hopefully, safer).

        I'm trying to imagine how nanotech would help with diving, and not coming up with much. Are you thinking that somehow a nanotech suit could be strong enough to withstand the incredible pressures, yet still be flexible?

        A similar technology for space suits is probably a lot easier though. Only a single atmosphere of pressure, and a near vacuum environment.

        Yes, space is a much human-friendlier environment than a few hundred feet of water. Harder to reach, but easier to stay alive in.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by zippthorne ( 748122 )
        We already have centitech [wikipedia.org] suits that make diving as safe as a submarine. Actually probably a bit safer, considering they're rated for over three times the depth of a typical submarine. Not quite as fun though, since it's more like diving in your own personal submarine.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by QuantumG ( 50515 )
          Yeah.. they're just as lame as existing space suits (if not more).. a magical nanotech suit would be completely transparent and so you feel like you're swimming in shallow water.
          • I think you'll find it difficult to obtain the phoenix feathers and unicorn horn required for the manufacture of those manabots.
    • The reason you deal with decompression sickness is that you breathe in air at 90' and the ascend. As you go up, the compressed air starts decompressing and filling up volume. In your joints, that causes the bends. In your lungs, it will cause a lot of pain.

      If, however, you take a normal breath at the surface, descend 90', and then ascend, the air will not expand and cause problems.

      I've heard that free divers' lungs will crush to the size of a baseball or smaller at depth.
      • No but you have another problem.

        As you descend the air is forced into your blood stream under pressure. And you have all this extra oxygen, which you use. As you ascend the air is withdrawn and you can end up with less oxygen than you need. Not good, it's why a lot of free divers black out on the ascent.

      • I think you're confusing the bends with an embolism.

        When you breathe at the surface and descend to 90', the air in your lungs will still be under 90' of water pressure (plus atmospheric pressure on top of that). Just like the air you would breathe from a tank at that depth. There will be less volume in your lungs but the pressure is the same and it will still be driven into (absorbed by) your tissues. When you ascend, bubbles will form in your tissues and cause the bends. People breathing from the surface

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by PeeAitchPee ( 712652 )
      Exley was a pioneer. He literally wrote the book on cave diving [amazon.com] and was the first person in the world to log over 1,000 cave dives. Slashdotters may also be interested to know that he was a North Florida math teacher who wrote his own software ("Dr. X") to help calculate gas mixes etc. during deep dives into the many caves which are part of the Florida Aquifer system. I submitted a story a few years ago on the tenth anniversary of his death but it was rejected -- glad to see he's finally being mentioned

    • A few minor corrections

      Just as a few notes. With the PADI (recreational) diving, you can hit about 90' before you have to start dealing with decompression.

      According to the PADI tables, you can spend 10 minutes at 140 feet before you're into decompression. At 90 feet you can stay for 30 minutes. The US Navy tables differ in some respects but agree on these limits.

      130' and you start hitting nitrogen narcosis as O2 gets toxic as the pressure increases.

      Narcosis actually begins to hit quite a bit shallower than 130. Most people notice mild symptoms by 80 feet, once they know what to look for. Oxygen toxicity depends on time as well as depth. At 130 feet (five atmospheres), ppO2 is about 1 atmosphere, which is safe for

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by radtea ( 464814 )
      130' and you start hitting nitrogen narcosis as O2 gets toxic as the pressure increases.

      Nitrogen narcosis and oxygen toxicity are completely unrelated and quite separate phenomenon

      Nitrogen narcosis makes you stupid due to the effects of a high partial pressure of INERT nitrogen on nerves, probably specifically on synapses. In my experience you reason so slowly when narc'd that you may as well not be able to reason at all, although the effects differ depending on circumstances and the individual involved.

      Ox
  • Unfortunately, he didn't get very far [msn.com].
  • Dick Cheney's top secret bunker has been located in a sinkhole. ;)
  • "Pebody says getting such a heavy craft is unlikely to make it to Europa, but believes exploring the environment closer to home might be a more realistic goal. "Lake Vostok under Antarctica would be a good precursor to Europa," he suggests."

    So the builder even realizes that the chance of going to Europa is not a possibility. Talk about an angle to get funding money. I guess they thought that Europa sounds cool, and was referenced in movies so Joe and Jane Taxpayer can better understand why they need money.
    • Or maybe they'll learn something from the tech and be able to recreate it in a smaller and lighter bot that can go to Europa.

      Nah, that's too obvious. All scientists are about getting more money. Evil scientists.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by cbacba ( 944071 )
      It's a large creature but it's also basically a one of a kind.

      One of my friends is down there now on that project. Vostock has always been on the menu, although probably not for something that big either. Europa is an entirely plausible venture as they have equipment on new horizon which is working rather well - although again, it's not for the prototype.

      The gizmo has about 30+ microprocessors networked together, just about one for every section and function. I think once they get the basics operational
  • Altogether now:

    We all hack in a robot submarine, a robot submarine, a robot submarine....

  • Perhaps this could map Lost Sea (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dmleach ( 917181 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @08:03AM (#19234299)
    The world's largest known underground lake is Lost Sea [thelostsea.com], in Tennessee between Chattanooga and Knoxville. It's worth stopping off if you're ever in the area. Back in the 1970's, a group of divers [cavediveflorida.com] tried to map the lake. The bubbles from their air tanks dislodged so much debris from the ceilings of the caves that they were unable to complete the project. I wonder if something like this robot would be able to finish the job.
  • Now, the next time I go to the world's deepest sinkhole, I won't have to worry about getting lost. Is it on Google Maps yet?
  • It's during the Fraser Cain and Pamela Gay interview segment.
    http://www.theskepticsguide.org/skepticsguide/podc astinfo.asp?pid=95 [theskepticsguide.org]
  • ... a stockpile of Iraqi WMDs.
  • The summary is a little misleading(surprise, surprise). According to the article, "The sinkhole may be connected to even deeper caverns. At the bottom of the slope, was an area DEPTHX's could not probe. This could be simply a depression or the entrance to further caves. The researchers hope to send the probe back later this week to find out, and to explore any connected passages." The opening paragraph states that "A robotic submarine yesterday mapped the bottom of the world's deepest water-filled sinkhol
  • "All these worlds are yours save Europa. Make no landings there."
  • Why not train a dolphin to do the exploration? Strap a camera and sensors to it and let it do the work. Once we have that technology we can strap lasers to them!
  • If you're interested in Shek Exley's story, you can find it in the book Caverns Unknown to Man, by Steve Dalcher. The book is out of print, but can still be found in some tech diving shops, particularly those near the freshwater caves in northern Florida (where he grew up and cut his teeth).

    The man really was a god among divers, and saved uncounted divers through his use of accident analysis to create a safe methodology for cave diving. The ones who die, do not follow his methods (and yes, that include

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