Palm to go Linux

jetkins writes "The Melbourne Age reports that company officials announced Tuesday that Palm will move to a new Linux-based platform 'to help the company compete better.' The move was announced 'during a meeting with analysts in New York, where they also discussed the company's business strategy and refused to talk about recent rumors of a possible buyout.'"

Old News???

[arthurpaliden]

Were they not going to do this a few years ago as well and then shelved the whole thing.

interesting++

[rucs_hack]

Given that PDAs are falling behind in the face of smart phones, going to Linux might just entice the linux haXX0r community to produce some fun applications that help Palm in the marketplace.

I don't know if there is already an unofficial palm Linux, but having it officially sanctioned would be a good thing.

Hell, I'm tempted to get one now just to have some coding fun, seriously.

Re:Old News???

[AKAImBatman]

Were they not going to do this a few years ago as well and then shelved the whole thing.

They've been on and off talking about it. What I don't get is why Palm Hardware never used the BeOS-based Palm Software OS. It was an ultra-modern OS, with features that WinCE could only dream of having, was better suited to handheld profiles, and yet Palm Hardware started making WinCE devices.

Ever since then, they keep pulling out this idea of a Linux handheld, then sticking it back in the box. Pull it out, put it back in. Pull it out, put it back in. Why don't they just go get their rights back from ACCESS so they use the bloody PALM OS?!?

Ok, rant over.

For me, Palm died when PalmOS went away

[GMFTatsujin]

I loved the classic Palm applications. No boot-up time, no waiting, no graphics-heavy Windows-like desktop compressed to the size of an index card ...

There seemed to be a lot of hobbyist development, too. People found ways to make the Palm keep track of what they wanted. As I recall, the Palm database format encouraged a lot of interchangeability and standardization. Mind-mapping and outlines were easy as pie and quick to bring up, so I rarely lost any ideas.

When they moved with Windows CE (or whatever they called the mobile variant that week), I threw up my hands. The hardware wasn't suited to it, and there were few -- if any -- replacements for the apps I cared to use. As far as I know, all the good stuff went the way of the dodo.

So I guess my question is: how does the move to Linux bode for developers? Will there be compatibility with any of the classic Palm OS or Windows CE apps, or will we once again have to build from scratch?

Re:Are we going to be able to see the source code?

[644bd346996]

You have severely underestimated the GPL. I suggest you go read it. The GPL is not that dense. But to answer the question at hand, yes, all customers will have access to the source code for the GPL portions (which will be the bulk of the OS). All customers will have the right to re-distribute and modify that code. That is the price Palm pays for using Free software.

Given Palm's history of being developer friendly, it will probably be possible to flash the PDAs with custom ROMs with all proprietary code stripped. Depending on the exact terms, it may even be possible to create a custom ROM with proprietary backwards compatibility code included.

There can be only one!!!

[mlwmohawk]

OK, lets be honest, we all need our cell phones.
Some of us need our blackberries.
We all want our music.

Rather than juggle all three, there is no reason why the cell phone can't do everything and more. After all a computer, whether it is in a P.C., Cellphone, or what ever is still a computer.

IMHO, Palm is wrong, they are coming into the system from the wrong direction, they MUST focus on the phone first and most, then blackberry, then MP3 player. Deliver a package to Verizon, Cingular, Orange, etc.

This is why iPhone will do better.

Re:About time...

[fishybell]

At my work we have roughly 20 salespeople and project managers that are using Treo 700p's and 650's. Yes the 650's were a crapshoot, but with the updated firmware, they work great (and even survive being dropped, having the screen cracked, etc. and almost survive being washed). The 700p's though...not so much. They are in desperate need of a firmware update. Palm has hinted that the problems are hardware related, but as not Rev B. is slated for arrival, I'd say they're just too cheap or lazy to fix the problems.

As far as syncing is concerned, we use the 650's and the 700p's to sync through the phone network to our internal linux server. It updates their client contacts, the employee directory, and their personal contacts nearly flawlessly. It's not too hard to do with pilotsync and python/tcl/perl/whatever. We use tcl here, and the code to run the sync (connect to postgres, wrapper for pilotsync api calls, etc) is 474 lines of code, and the code to manage and initiate incoming syncs is 6.

Re:Wonderful Triple OS strategy

[LWATCDR]

I don't consider brilliant but limited a criticism at all. While I really like Linux I also wonder if it is the best choice for a PDA. Your comment about how it isn't great for people slapping together apps with a RAD is actually a pretty big criticizing of Linux. One thing that I notice is that many applications that other people would do in Visual Basic or Delphi under Windows are done with LAMP under Linux. While a not a bad way to set up an application if you are running from a server it really isn't easy to install and run for the average Grandmother. A good RAD system would be a killer app for a PDA. Linux is great but it is also very general purpose. Symbian is a great example of an OS that is optimized for a PDA type system. I am excited to see what Palm produces since I am no fan of WinCE but I still wonder if Linux has become a one size fits all OS at the expense of other ideas in OS development. I would love to see something new and really different come from FOSS.
BTW
Linux could have a killer RAD development system. All we need is to integrate Eclipse, SWT, SQLite, and GJC into one easy to use and configure package.

Re:Old News???

[ceeam]

PalmOS is definitely not POS. _I_ don't really need multithreading in my PDA. What is POS is Windows Mobile with apps basically hanging in background and constant problems because of it.

But this talking has only theoretical interest now. PalmOS is dead. Windows Mobile soon to follow. Symbian has won for the moment. Pity. I like my PDA with a relatively big hi-res screen and I can handle my phone and PDA as two separate devices thankyou. I don't want to talk with my PDA any more than I don't want to have CD player in my TV.

Re:interesting++

[bfree]

Hackndev [hackndev.com] has been working on Linux ports for many of the current Palm models for quite a while now. Unfortunately some things (like Wifi) are virtually impossible to get working but a wide number of models have the core hardware working. The biggest issue now actually seems to be creating the applications/environment which is suited for the Palm inputs.

Re:I've always wanted to like the palm

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to like Palm, but I eventually moved to Hipster PDA [43folders.com]. It works better.

Re:Wonderful Triple OS strategy

[hey!]

What I'd really like to see is somebody offering the equivalent Palm m505 for under $50. Ideally well under. That would not only revive the idea of a PIM, but actaully revitalize the PDA product category. The problem is at the price points vendors sell modern PDAs at, you have to stuff more power and functions into them than people need. The results are to bulky, expensive and complex to justify the price point.

That's what's really behind convergence. If you're going to buy a lot of things you don't need all that much, its very inefficient to buy them more than once.

Given modern technology, PDAs should be one step up from disposable. If you drop your PDA or lose it, you go to the drug store, grab a new one, sync and go.

The 500 series is just about right with one proviso: it should be possible to dial your phone wirelessly from them. It might be nice to be able to browse the web, but that could go in Cheap But Highly Useful PIM v 2. If you could buy something that useful for $49, you probably would. If you could buy it for $19.99 you almost certainly would. Multiple PIM ownership would be common. You'd probably even pick one up if you forgot yours at home.

Re:Old News???

[PitaBred]

Why not just make the bluetooth earset snap into the device? That way it's one device until you need it as two.

Re:Old News???

[jsnorman]

Actually, Palm (the hardware company) never announced until this PR any intention of moving to an internally developed OS. It was ACCESS (fka PalmSource, the Palm operating system company seperated from Palm hardware), that announced they were moving to Linux several years ago;but that project seems to be treading water at best.

What is interesting is the Palm (hardware company) is basically slapping ACCESS's face hard here - they are tired of waiting for a new and improvied Palm OS, apparently did not like Cobalt, and are tired of waiting for ACCESS to get its act together on Linux .. so they did it on their own. If true, it is the nail in ACCESS's already buried coffin.

Re:Old News???

[mrchaotica]

Poorly designed convergence is a problem.

Yep.

There is no technical reason why a phone shouldn't be a perfectly good music player.

Yes there is: it has the wrong interface.

There's no reason for a PDA not to include phone capabilities.

Ditto.

The hardware is basically the same stuff.

Except for the interface.

Now, here's what really ought to happen: divide up the hardware by interface instead of by function. Stop putting storage and transceivers (e.g. cellular, wifi) in all the devices; instead put that stuff on a brick (without a display) that I can leave in my pocket, and then give me a dumb terminal-like touchscreen (that's as thinner than a PDA), a headset, and maybe a calculator watch-like device for when the touchscreen is unnecessary. Then hook it all together with Bluetooth or wires or something. That's how "convergence" should be!

Re:Great but....

[giminy]

Out of the box it only had support for Windows, and was really designed for windows users.

Yes, it was designed for Windows users. That is evident by the the security [syr.edu] of the original release. no root password + an ftp server that binds to all interfaces (and can't be disabled without killing the graphical environment) == instant fun!

Reid

Re:Old News???

[Doctor Memory]

You are aware that you're sitting in front of the most multi-function device ever conceived of by Man, right?

Which is fine, because I'm (as you say) sitting. When I'm leaving a meeting and need to call someone to tell them that I'm leaving early/late, I really don't want to have to negotiate a bunch of menus to pull up my address book to tap somebody's number to make the call. Or if somebody calls me to get somebody else's contact info, I could do without telling them "Hold on...", then searching for the info, then reciting some of it, pull the phone away from my ear to look at the screen, memorize the next line, stick the phone up to my ear, recite the line, pull the phone away...

Not to mention I'd rather have a skinny little phone I can drop in a pocket that's just a phone instead of some bulky yeah-but-I-can-play-Quake-on-it wonder gadget that requires a holster. I wouldn't mind having a slick little tablet that has my address book, calendar, project notes, and e-mail viewer (and Quake), but that's the kind of thing I'd just as soon leave in a folio or something, since I almost never need that information when I'm walking down the street, so if it's not immediately handy it really doesn't matter. My phone is almost exactly the opposite -- if I can't grab it and make or answer a call within a couple of seconds, I really question the utility of owning it.

That's why I still carry my own cell phone, even though the company provides me with a BlackBerry. Due to corporate security policies, all BBs must be password protected. That means if I want to make a call, I first have to enter at least eight characters, at least one of which must be a capital letter and at least one of which must be a number. Try doing that on one of their funky 20-key QWERTY keypads while hustling down a busy hallway...

Re:Article has no information

[RomulusNR]

It is hard to tell whether Palm, inc. announced that they are going to release a pda based on the Access Linux platform, or if they have gotten back into the software business and developed their own platform.

The latter, according to CNet:

http://news.com.com/Palm+touts+stability+of+Linux- based+Treos/2100-1041_3-6175171.html [com.com]