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United States Hardware

FCC Says No to Mobile Phones on Airplane 398

GayBliss writes "CNN is reporting that the FCC has decided to keep a rule in place that would ban mobile phone usage on airplanes. The FAA has a similar ban, but for different reasons. 'In an order released Tuesday, the agency noted that "insufficient technical information" was available on whether airborne cell phone calls would jam networks below. [...]Unlike the Federal Aviation Administration, which bans the use of cell phones and other portable electronic devices for fear they will interfere with navigational and communications systems, the FCC's concern is interference with other cell phone signals on the ground.'"
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FCC Says No to Mobile Phones on Airplane

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  • Hooray! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BWJones ( 18351 ) * on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:03PM (#18610809) Homepage Journal
    I've commented [utah.edu] before about some of the hassles of travel lately (and some of the possible solutions [utah.edu]), and all I have to say about the FCC maintaining the ban of cell phones on planes is thank you!. Aside from the "insufficient technical information" statement, this ruling is going to prevent someone from having violence done to them because of their inane constant droning to any and all within earshot. I once had the displeasure of sitting on a plane on the tarmac for two hours while our flight was delayed and the pilot allowed everyone to use their cell phones. It was torture as most folks were not talking on their cell phones to arrange transportation or take care of business, but they were talking (loudly) about everything and nothing and forcing those around them to have to listen! Even worse, people began trying to speak over one another and the volume gradually increased until there was an amazing din of people calling their friends to say "Hey! Hey! Betcha can't guess where I'm calling you from! An airplane! Ha ha ha ha, yeah and on my own cell phone even!". It was a horrible forced invasion of personal space and ever since then I had been hoping that the FCC would not allow this to become a common occurrence.

  • by morgan_greywolf ( 835522 ) * on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:06PM (#18610863) Homepage Journal
    Insufficient technical information exists to say that they do interfere with ground signals or even the navigation and communications systems used to justify the FAA's ban.

    So why the ban? Erring on the side of caution? Gimme a break. There's gotta be another reason that nobody's talking about.
  • Good (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wiz31337 ( 154231 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:06PM (#18610867)
    I really don't want to be stuck inches away from someone talking way too loud for several hours anyway.

    Business travel is stressful enough the way it is and being "out of touch" from the office may be the best part of the trip. If they allow cell phones on airplanes that means I will be expected to work while I am on the plane as well. Get 20 people on a plane doing that and it is going to be really annoying to everyone else.
  • by CF4L ( 1072112 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:07PM (#18610877)
    Another reason? How about the prevention of "air rage" from people beating the shit out of other people for talking the whole time next to them on their cell for a 4 hour flight when you have a headache and just want to sleep?
  • by shawn(at)fsu ( 447153 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:12PM (#18610961) Homepage
    Not everything needs to be turned in to a conspiracy. Yes I know this is /tinfoilhat. but really does someone need to do this every time?
    Thank you FCC.
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BWJones ( 18351 ) * on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:12PM (#18610965) Homepage Journal
    Hell yes, people do this in the terminal. Many have written before about the death of courtesy, but at least in the terminal you can walk to another part of the terminal and distance yourself from the person. The problem in an airplane (particularly in coach class) is that you are sitting in forced proximity to the offending person.

  • by redelm ( 54142 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:14PM (#18610993) Homepage
    And just how are you going to test? Should you need to prove safety, or do you assume it and wonder when aircraft crash?

    Cellphones are remarkably powerful devices. I can hear interference from mine on my landline when they're close. I wouldn't want to try it on unshielded (weight) avionics. Aircraft design is very tight (weight) without the robustness you might expect.

  • by CritterNYC ( 190163 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:16PM (#18611023) Homepage
    GOOD!
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Paulrothrock ( 685079 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:17PM (#18611035) Homepage Journal

    It's times like that I am most thankful for the invention of the iPod. Nothing like creating a personal space in a public space.

  • by Vengeance ( 46019 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:18PM (#18611055)
    How about the jerks who are so prone to beating the shit out of people start their own airline, then, and leave the normal people in peace? Frankly, there have been plenty of cases of people going bat shit crazy on airplanes to leave me wondering if there's something inherently unstable in our little primate brains when subjected to altitude.

    However, that's *really* a non-issue here wrt this article, as controlling sociopathic travellers isn't part of the FCC's bailiwick. The real story here is the claim that there isn't enough proof that cell phones whizzing by five miles over our heads at five hundred miles an hour won't cause you to lose your call to Aunt Mabel, a call which is statistically likely to be just as inane as the ones causing mass murders overhead.
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Romancer ( 19668 ) <romancer AT deathsdoor DOT com> on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:21PM (#18611101) Journal
    Quote: I think in the long run people would develop proper protocol and act appropriately...

    Seriously?

    Do you even read the slashdot comments? Or just try to drive to the store and have people cut you off, walk out in front of you, or park their cars on the painted lines at an angle?

    There is a small percentage of people on Earth that can actually understand their effect on others AND have consideration enough to act appropriately.

    I think that the majority of the people out there care just enough about others to not piss people off so much that they'll get beaten, but not by much. And these same people are so oblivious of their surroundings that they don't notice that the people that they honk at and yell at are doing the exact same things that they just did.

    That's why we have to have laws that wouldn't be there if people would just take it upon themselves to act appropriately.
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by x2A ( 858210 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:24PM (#18611147)
    I don't get this whole deal with people on mobile phones, as if it's any different from sitting next to two people talking directly to each other. The only difference is whether you can hear the other side of the converstation or not. All I can figure out is that not being able to hear the other side of the conversation makes the brain curious and fix on what's being said more, making you more aware of it. Personally I don't really care, so I have no more of a problem tuning it out as I would do if I was sitting next to two people having the same conversation.

  • by daniel422 ( 905483 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:29PM (#18611211) Journal
    All I can hope for is that they continue to ban the use of headsets. I don't mind someone emailing or (OMG) IMing. At least it's quiet and I'm not held hostage to their innane conversation. Didn't I just see a story on this that several airlines are rolling out wifi? And the difference is....? I guess it's slightly lower power, but wifi runs the same interference risks as cell phones.
    As for the "technical" reasons. Completely bunk. Modern airplanes have all their signal wires twisted pair and shielded (very RF immune). While it IS possible for cell phones to create considerable interference (particularly GSM), airline systems are VERY well shielded. I seem to recall a "Mythbusters" episode (yes.. the paragons of the scientific process) that also confirmed this. The thought that it would interfere with ground based systems is simply rediculous. What ground based systems? Other cell networks? No. Airline communications? No -- totally different frequency band. Somebody give me a good example of where your cell phone was interfering in ground based systems while in your car (not your unshielded car stereo with a GSM phone). There is no difference between being on the ground or in the air. And no -- there is NO problem with communicating with a cell tower several miles DOWN -- with nothing in your way except the airplane fuselage. You'd actually get pretty good reception. Antenna sensitivity is also a function of height (and how much is in the way).
  • Ah (Score:3, Insightful)

    by matt me ( 850665 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:33PM (#18611281)
    It's a human right to be an arse back to people talking on their phones in public. Walk into them. They can't resist.
  • by Orange Crush ( 934731 ) * on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:34PM (#18611289)

    It's still a valid question: why would a cell phone on an airplane cause more interference to cell phones on the ground than another cell phone on the ground would cause?

    I believe the main concern that a cellphone at high altitude will be able to "see" lots of towers that look almost equally good and be prone to jumping back and forth between them at a much much higher rate than the networks were designed for, interfering with peoples' ability to make calls on the ground.

  • by Chmcginn ( 201645 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:39PM (#18611353) Journal

    Frankly, there have been plenty of cases of people going bat shit crazy on airplanes to leave me wondering if there's something inherently unstable in our little primate brains when subjected to altitude.

    Replace "altitude" with "confinement in a tube with a bunch of other primates", and it ends up a lot more plausible.

  • by illegalcortex ( 1007791 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:42PM (#18611409)
    That's exactly what I was saying. Why don't the FAA just come out with a ban that's simply based on this reasoning? Loud talking is banned in public libraries and cellphone use is banned in moving vehicles in some states, so why can't they ban cellphones on planes? I think if you took a poll of most psychologists, I think they'd back you up that having to listen to a plane full of people's cellphone conversations is like sitting on a powder keg.
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jfengel ( 409917 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:42PM (#18611419) Homepage Journal
    You can talk to a person sitting next to you in a whisper. They get a lot of other clues (facial expressions, unconscious lip reading) that fill in a lot of the details.

    On a cell phone you tend to talk louder to be sure that you're heard. You're dealing with a tiny microphone. You're also dealing with a tiny speaker; when you're having trouble hearing you tend to talk louder in the belief that they must also be having trouble hearing you.

    So a perfect cell phone would indeed be no more of a nuisance than a conversation with a seat mate, but at least some people talk a lot louder than that. It may actually be no louder than ordinary conversation, but a cramped space (restaurant, airplane) requires hushed tones.
  • by FlyByWire63 ( 992071 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @04:47PM (#18611529)
    As a pilot (25 years and counting), I've not had much luck with my cell phone(Verizon) working above 10,000 feet. That's in a plane that has a lot of glass space. I'll get a signal for 5 to 10 seconds and then the call will be dropped. This isn't over the middle of nowhere, it's over central Ohio! I've tried it in several locations where I've flown including the Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Chicago areas and I keep getting the same result. In some cases, I have no luck above 8k ft. I typically fly light singles and twins, so there isn't as much aluminum shielding around me as there would be in a jet. I think that once you reach a certain altitude, your phone hits too many cell sites at once and the whole system becomes confused, so in retaliation, your call is dropped. I'm not sure what the ERP of a cell phone would be at or above 10k ft. On a jet at 39,000 feet shielded with plenty of aluminum, I seriously doubt you would get any usable signal anyway. And yeah... I can see the headline when some passenger pummels another to death with a copy of the Sunday New York Times for pontificating on a cell phone during a flight!
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @05:01PM (#18611743)
    If there are no technical hurdles, it should be up to the airline. Something like "It is Jet Blue's policy not to allow the use of cellular phones for voice calls." Couple that with "you are required to obey uniformed flight attenants" and there shouldn't be too much of a problem. The FCC and FAA need to figure out, once and for all, if using phones poses a technical risk to the cell network or the airplane. Ettiquite shouldn't come into it.
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @05:05PM (#18611799) Homepage Journal
    How many mp3 players have you seen with built in speakers? Or for that matter, how many portable music devices with built-in speakers have you seen? Also, it means no such thing, because you can plug external speakers in, and there have probably been more sets of those made for the iPod than there have been made any accessory for any other portable music player.
  • by soft_guy ( 534437 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @05:06PM (#18611815)
    Anyone who talks on a cell phone in a movie theater or brings an infant to a movie theater is an asshat.
  • by igotmybfg ( 525391 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @05:13PM (#18611917) Homepage
    I think it is likely that the FAA and FCC know that it is practically impossible to enforce this regulation (although I wouldn't mind a foxy flight attendant patting me down to find my turned-on cell phone, which is always on when I fly). I also think it is likely that there are lots of you who leave your phones on, too. And yet, our planes didn't crash, and here we all are. So I think they are saying no due to some other reason - it certainly isn't because it messes up navigational equipment; many of us are proof of that.
  • by tofugorilla ( 912979 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @05:16PM (#18611975)
    I can only imagine what 4 hours of inane babbling would do to me. I've been stuck on a 20 minute bus ride listening to some loud ass explain to a girl he went on a date with that he, infact, was not a creep despite his actions the previous night. I was decibels away from stealing his phone and throwing it out the window. Thank you FCC!
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jfengel ( 409917 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @05:21PM (#18612069) Homepage Journal
    I personally have yet to find myself bothered by a cell phone conversation in a restaurant, though I've heard plenty of anecdotes. It's probably the case that 98% of all people talk at a reasonable level into their phones and that the entire problem is attributed to a small subset of people who are rude in general and have just been given an opportunity to make that fact known.

    Like the way every baby I've ever noticed is screaming. There may be perfectly polite infants on airplanes, but I'd never notice them.
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by vertinox ( 846076 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @05:27PM (#18612185)
    That's why we have to have laws that wouldn't be there if people would just take it upon themselves to act appropriately.

    Actually as another commenter pointed out that 1 out of every 100 persons is a Sociopath, but in reality laws at this point in our history do not deter crime or affect behavior as much as attempt to mitigate the person's ability to do it again.

    There is little effort in law enforcement for prevention and rehabilitation as much as there is detection and incarceration (at least in the US).

    Although, the CCTV systems and automated methods of catching people who break the law actually do make us actually not try to break the law (I've slammed on my brakes a few times because I know there are cameras on a yellow light that is extremely short because I knew I would get fined), but the majority of the people in the states do not actually think about the law when they go about their daily lives and often only are not total jerks because they aren't all bad (99 out of 100 of them).

    Even with the death penalty and efficient justice we still have people who murder each other on a daily basis.

    I'm sure I go about my daily life most likely breaking a dozen laws and regulations which I don't even know about and I'm sure you do too, but you don't see me (and hopefully not you) punching old ladies in the face or talking on my cell phone during a movie.

    Those who do won't be stopped by simply laws, but rather the enforcement of laws (or if we actually spent time with prevention and identified sociopaths in the first place and rehabilitated them).

    I don't think anarchy is the solution either because there are plenty of sociopaths to go around... Unfortunately, some which I think actually make and enforce the laws these days.
  • by eepok ( 545733 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @05:27PM (#18612187) Homepage
    Hasn't it been a generally accepted concept of Constitutional philosophy that only harmful actions are to be banned and/or prosecuted? You guys are saying "Thank god they're banning it... people with cell phones annoy me so much!", but the use of a cell phone is not in itself bad. In fact, talking about inane subjects on a cellphone in a confined space is by all means supported by law unless it interferes with necessary functions (which the ban may or may not be saying).

    Since when does the Slashdot community suggest and support that behavior be regulated? What next: No homosexuality because it's icky for it to go "in there"? No driving at the speed limit because you're late and it's annoying when other people don't understand that YOU didn't get up on time in the morning? Shall we now force people to speak with a specific accent because you don't like a regional diction?

    At no point should it EVER be the government's responsibility to enforce "polite behavior" because you /may/ get this "air rage". It's your problem to deal with the situation-- politely if you choose to practice what you preach. Note, however, that if you choose to be violent, YOU will be held accountable.

    Grow a pair, complainers, and solve your own social problems.
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @05:27PM (#18612189) Homepage Journal

    Why should I have to interrupt them continually? I've got my own work to do and no time or desire to police others manners. Why do you think this is OK?

    I don't think it's OK, but I think problems with rude people can be solved by being less rude than they are and explaining why you too are being rude. It may not happen on the first try, but if enough of us did that sort of thing we could train them. Part of the problem is all the people who will sit idly by, getting hotter under the collar, because they are too cowardly to stand up and say something.

    The REAL problem is that people are impolite, but that problem has existed for a very long time now, and I don't have an overall solution except maybe requiring a license to be permitted to have children, and to have one of the criteria in the license exam be that you may not be trash.

  • Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by eln ( 21727 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @05:38PM (#18612357)
    Then again, I also think people shouldn't take their children out in public until they can behave. Apparently that makes me a nasty person, according to a few parents I've known.

    The only way to really train your kids how to act in public is to take them out in public frequently. This means they will occasionally throw fits. However, if they do this, the correct thing to do is to get them away from that public place as quickly as possible.

    When my kids were very young, we took them shopping and to restaurants and that sort of thing. However, if one of them starting screaming or something, we immediately took them outside away from other people. On the very rare occasion that it was a full-blown tantrum, they were brought home and put into their bedrooms, and we did our shopping at some other time.

    I don't understand the parents who will walk through the entire store and spend 20 minutes shopping while their children are screaming bloody murder the entire time. I've been in stores where the entire time I was shopping I would hear a blood-curdling scream from the same kid every 30 seconds the entire time I was there. I can only assume that kid's mother is stone deaf.

    When I see a mother leaving a store carrying her screaming child, I feel pity for her. When I see a mother leisurely doing her shopping while her kid screams in the cart, it just angers me.
  • by Psmylie ( 169236 ) * on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @05:41PM (#18612387) Homepage
    I just avoid going to movies that are "kid-friendly" (anything pixar, for example) during a time when there are likely to be more kids around. Midnight showings are good for that.

    As far as just putting your phone on vibrate... no, just turn it off. Those incredibly bright flashes of light as people check their phones is nearly as distracting as the ringing itself. My opinion, if you can't spend 2 hours without a phone, then just wait for the damned movie to come out on DVD.

  • Re:Good (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Achromatic1978 ( 916097 ) <robert@@@chromablue...net> on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @06:09PM (#18612763)
    My sympathy, it's not there. Sorry. If your employer expects you to be working any time you have cellular reception, that's your problem. The solution isn't that anyone else gets denied cellular access.
  • by eepok ( 545733 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @06:09PM (#18612777) Homepage
    That said, I do agree with you under one condition... So long as the airlines all get together and agree to ban cell-phone use as well.

    That's is how it should work. Airlines have the power to regulate "politeness" in their private aircraft by saying, "No cell phones, please. Too many of you loud mouths have proven yourselves inconsiderate and we risk losing the business of normal people because of you". Not the federal government. The government getting involved opens up too wide a precedence.
  • by markjhood2003 ( 779923 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @06:25PM (#18612991)
    You raise an interesting question. What is it about cell phone conversations that are so much more annoying than the ambient conversations between the actual people around oneself? I personally don't mind most of the conversation around me in a crowded public area; in fact, much of the time it adds to the positive ambience of a public event or gathering. But add some idiot blabbing into a cell phone and it turns into an annoyance. Everybody I know feels the same way.

    I think the thing is that a one-sided cell phone conversation feels like an intrusion into an established social situation. One can always hear the conversations of the actual people around you, but most of the time if feels like it belongs: the people are right there with you, you can hear both sides of the conversation, you can even join in if you feel like it. You don't feel excluded, unless it's some passionate couple total oblivious to everybody else around them.

    And that's the thing with cell phone conversations in a public space: it's an exclusive conversation, and the person blabbing into the phone is mostly oblivious to the people around him or her. It feels rude and exclusionary. Normally, people who need a private space for conversation will move themselves to a private space, but cell phone users will instead take that private space from the others around them, and that feels like a violation.

  • by mangu ( 126918 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @06:32PM (#18613069)
    The per-minute cost is approximately infinity billion dollars.


    I think all cell phone calls should be taxed as much as possible, with balance being made in lower taxes on other more important goods and services. Cell phones are used by insufferable fuckwits all over the world. Thirty years ago we didn't have cell phones at all and nobody died because of that.


    Cell phones should be in the same or higher tax brackets as booze and tobacco. Actually, they should have higher taxes, since we already have smoke-free areas everywhere. Sitting next to a cell talker has about the same irritation factor as sitting next to a smoker.

  • Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Moofie ( 22272 ) <lee AT ringofsaturn DOT com> on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @06:35PM (#18613111) Homepage
    Which is more arrogant? Being rude in public, or using the force of law to make people not do something that annoys you?
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by StikyPad ( 445176 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @08:19PM (#18614279) Homepage
    Well, there is some logic behind ignoring tantrums, in that it demonstrates that they're ineffective, but in some circumstances it can certainly be tantamount to acceptance of the behavior. OTOH, I think leaving should be avoided at all costs, as the child may realize that while they don't get what they want, you don't get what you want either, which can be an acceptable tradeoff (especially if the child is at an age where they can appreciate that a calm experience is what you want). I know everyone advocates not spanking these days, but the one time my 4 year-old daughter threw a tantrum in public, I scooped her up, spanked her on the butt, and put her in the cart. While she kept crying for a little while, she's never thrown a fit with me since, because she knows I won't hesitate to discipline her. I don't advocate spanking in all (most) situations, but I can say that it's been effective for me when used judiciously. Of course, I followed up with additional negative consequences -- she had no choices and got absolutely nothing she wanted for the remainder of the day, and I reminded her why I said no every time she asked for something -- but now I can usually just give her a warning if she starts to get fussy and she quickly straightens up.
  • by sadler121 ( 735320 ) <msadler@gmail.com> on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @08:33PM (#18614401) Homepage
    If driving while talking on a hands free setup is dangerous, surely driving while talking to someone else in the car is equally as dangerous. So in your perfect world would you ban people from talking while in the car?
  • by LordKronos ( 470910 ) on Wednesday April 04, 2007 @08:45PM (#18614553)
    Another person in the car is fully aware of whats going on in the vehicle.

    1) They are a second set of eyes.
    2) When something tricky is happening, like you having to slam on your breaks, they quickly shut up and let you concentrate on the immediate danger, where as the person on the phone keeps on talking, completely oblivious to anything that is happening.
  • Re:Hooray! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by MrNaz ( 730548 ) on Thursday April 05, 2007 @02:29AM (#18617149) Homepage
    Just use a finger slingshot to get your message across:

    Ammo production:
    1. Take an A4 or letter sized sheet of paper.
    2. Fold over and tear off a 2-3 inch wide flap, making a strip from a short edge.
    3. Roll the strip into a tight (but not too tight) small cigar shaped wad.
    4. Lick the end flap of the roll to make it stick and not unravel.
    5. Bend it in the middle, to make a V shaped projectile.

    The slingshot is just a heavy duty elastic band looped between your thumb and index finger. Assuming you are right handed, the projectile is held by the right hand, and the sling is the thumb and index finger of the left hand.

    Can be stowed immediately after a shot. If your poker face is good enough, you can shoot someone point blank and then stare innocently when he/she turns around angrily. Make *damn* sure your poker face is good, as even a tiny smirk is likely to result in you being chased around the terminal.

    Pros:
    1. Easily concealable, 100% undetectable by airport security.
    2. Can inflict serious pain, especially to that exposed part of the back of the neck of a cell phone douche bag.
    3. Rapid deployment and concealment.

    Cons:
    1. Unstable ammo makes accuracy at long range poor
    2. Unskilled use can result in the projectile hitting the webbing between thumb and forefinger of your sling hand. Can draw blood!
    3. Requires practice in covert deployment and concealment if it is to be used in combat against cell phone douche bags.

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