Scotland Building Wave Power Farms 211
eldavojohn writes "Scottish engineers are taking advantage of the huge ocean coast that Scotland enjoys by building a 'wave farm' to harvest electricity from the ocean's powerful waves. These big red tubes have been named the Pelamis System after a sea snake. Max Carcas, the business developer for the firm, says it is 'a bit like a ship at anchor or a flag on a flagpole, it self orientates into the waves ... Waves then travel down the length of the machine and in doing so each of the sections, each of these train carriages, moves up and down and side to side.' These snake-like movements push hydraulic fluid through generators to produce electricity."
Background Information (Score:5, Informative)
If you think this idea is new, it is not. The patents for this technology go all the way back to the 1970s.[1] [uspto.gov] [2] [uspto.gov]
As was noted in the original discussion on this topic, Which explains why you'll see this more and more in the news. Some of the countries in Europe have energy generation from wind & waves up to 10% or 15% but 2010 is getting closer and closer.
Everyone recognizes that it's not smart to put all your eggs in one basket and right now a lot of countries are pretty dependent on oil. With a possible energy crisis or global warming problem, wave power looks like it will be one of the many solutions that each country will develop to mitigate their problems.
They're not the only ones... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0915/p02s02-usgn.ht
Scotland != Portugal (Score:5, Informative)
In Portugal. From TFA:
Scottish engineers will soon deploy an offshore "wave farm" in Portugal.
They have also signed a deal to build an even larger farm in Scottish waters.
Construction of the wave farm in Portugal has been underway for the past year in a busy shipyard in the Portuguese coastal town of Peniche.
Re:Background Information (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Anyone know what the "hydraulic fluid" is? (Score:3, Informative)
According to Wikipedia, 0.75 MW/Pelamis Machine (Score:2, Informative)
I'm not entirely sure if the 5MW is per unit but, from the Wikipedia page on wave power [wikipedia.org]: And from the specific wave farm [wikipedia.org]: And for the UK: So I would guess that "per unit" would be 3MW/4 Units or 0.75 MW/Unit. Although I don't know what the point is if by unit you mean machine and a Pelamis machine is much less in cost to build than a coal/oil powered turbine. Could you specify if you mean per unit as in per turbine? I understand what you mean, there is a lot to be said about start up cost and maintenance though I don't think there's a lot of information out there as Portugal and Scotland are few countries investing in this technology.
Additional report from PRI (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Anyone know what the "hydraulic fluid" is? (Score:1, Informative)
"The system is going to be used in a marine environment. It's going to corrode anyway"
That's wrong and I'm guessing you don't know why.
"but there's no particular reason why this system should be all that high-pressure anyway."
No, that's wrong, and betrays your fundamental misunderstanding of hydraulics. Why comment when you're just making shit up? You sound like a moron to those of us who DO know hydraulics.
"This thing is going to get wiped out the first time a major storm comes through anyway"
This is the central point of your argument, and since is simply an assumption pulled from your ass (like the rest of your comments) there is no way you can possibly know this. I mean, apart from the fact that you're a know-it-all.
"Regardless of who is right, it is irresponsible to be putting hydraulic fluid out there."
Well, YOU'RE not right, that's for sure. And the other part of that sentence is wrong too.
I'm going to show you something, then I want you to admit you're an idiot. What I'm going to show you will definitively prove it, but I'd like to see you act like a man for once.
"Environmentally sensitive applications (e.g. farm tractors and marine dredging) may benefit from using biodegradable hydraulic fluids based upon rapeseed (Canola) vegetable oil when there is the risk of an oil spill from a ruptured oil line. Typically these oils are available as ISO 32, ISO 46, and ISO 68 specification oils. ASTM standards ASTM-D-6006, Guide for Assessing Biodegradability of Hydraulic Fluids and ASTM-D-6046, Standard Classification of Hydraulic Fluids for Environmental Impact are relevant. 2004 prices were about $25/gallon in small quantities."
Did you REALLY think you were the first person to think hydraulic fluid might spill into the ocean? Did you REALLY think they didn't have a solution?
STFU now. But not until you admit you're an idiot.
Re:Environmental Impact: Scotland the Wave (Score:2, Informative)
IANAS, but (1) there's not enough of these to have any forseeable impact at the moment and (2) ocean movement energy is supplied by the tides, which are powered by gravitational forces between the earth, sun and the moon. So if anything, this is solar power.
Re:(-1, "Orientate" isn't a word) (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Background Information (Score:1, Informative)
[1] expired on December 30, 1992 and [2] expired on January 9, 1996. Obsess on them Maths, Freak.
Re:More British Sea Power (ho ho) (Score:3, Informative)
IEEE Spectrum guide to venture capital (Score:2, Informative)
handed out advice: avoid patent thickets. If an area of technology is covered by many patents held by various patent holders, just give up. All the patent holders will believe that their own one is the key patent that deserves the lions share of the royalties and you will never be able to complete the multiway patent negotiations on reasonable terms. When the people with the money say "we are not investing in areas covered by patent thickets" that is exactly the phenomen of patents holding back technical progress.
However the original post mentions two patents, so that is not a thicket. Nevertheless the sole power that a patent grants is the power to prevent others from using the invention. Patent holders make their money two ways. First by playing hardball, pay the royalty we demand or do without the invention. Second by making the product themselves, refusing to let any-one else make it, and charging monopoly prices. MobyDisk is very confused about patents if he doubts that the companies held the patents to prevent other from practising the invention.
The economic question about patents is whether there is a public benefit to offset the undoubted cost of granting monopolies. The theory is that private companies can invest serious money of research that is unsuitable to be held as a trade secret because they can earn a return using the patent system.
It clearly didn't work out here, because the invention hasn't been practised. Understand the theoretical problem. If you invest money researching and developing wave energy machines and you get a patent on a half-solution to the problem, engineers will want to spend more money on research and development to complete the solution to the problem. If the half-solution is covered by a patent, the engineers are going to have serious trouble with their bankers. The bankers will realise that the holder of the patent on the first half of the solution has them by the balls. A patent on part of an invention tends to kill it, blocking research funding to bring the invention to completion.
Pelamis videos and others (Score:2, Informative)
Another technology using waves/currents to produce energy is an under water turbine using two rotors [marineturbines.com], delivering up to 1MW. This company already has single rotor turbines in use.
extra: why not use your sewage to produce energy?
Rabtherm [rabtherm.ch] English translation [google.com]
press article [3sat.de] English translation [google.com]