MIT's Millimeter Turbine to be Ready This Year

Iddo Genuth writes "After a decade of work, the first millimeter size turbine engine developed by researchers at MIT should become operational by the end of this summer. The new turbine engine will allow the creation of smaller and more powerful batteries than anything currently in existence. It might also serve as the basis for tiny powerful motors with applications ranging from micro UAVs to children's toys. In the more distant future huge arrays of hydrogen fueled millimeter turbine engines could even be the basis for clean, quiet and cost effective power plants."

Clean Power Plants?

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

In the more distant future huge arrays of hydrogen fueled millimeter turbine engines could even be the basis for clean, quiet and cost effective power plants."

WTF? Where's the hydrogen coming from? May as well say In the more distant future huge arrays of kitten engines could even be the basis for clean, quiet and cost effective power plants."

Well, it could be!

Re:Huge arrays?

[Max Littlemore]

That's an interseting point. Perhaps the advantage is localised generation rather than isolated power stations. Perhaps they will be used in individual PCs, laptops, etc instead of batteries. I don't get how increasing the friction of a large scale system will increase it's efficiency, and I don't really get where the hydrogen comes from either.

I'd be a lot more exceited about artificial photosynthesis

Gah!

[Anonymous Coward]

A micro-turbine is not a fucking battery! An ultra-capacitor is not a battery! A fuel cell is not a battery!

Re:Clean Power Plants?

[dbIII]

WTF? Where's the hydrogen coming from?

From clean nuclear plants that require no mining, enrichment, hazardous waste disposal, have no concrete and so thus have no carbon dioxide impact and work far better than the tweaked 1950s dinosuars which are the only tested designs you could get built over the course of the next few years.

Methane from kittens would be almost as difficult to organise.

The proposal to "kickstart" the hydrogen economy consists of bizzare stuff like getting the hydrogen from methane - bizzare because methane is easier to ship, store and use and could come from biological sources (not just kittens) or from coalbeds.

These turbines sound fantastic in very small situations and it appears a journo is missing the point by wondering what big arrays would do and setting up for dissappointment.

Wow, really?!?

[XaXXon]

In 1903 the Norwegian inventor Aegidus Elling became the first person to successfully construct a gas turbine engine which produced more power than it required to operate

Wow, really?!? In the last 104 years we haven't been able to reproduce a system which produces more power than it takes to operate.

Those guys must have been really smart. Maybe it was a cold fusion gas turbine engine.

Thermodynamics be damned.

Re:Wow, really?!?

[fireboy1919]

Yeah. Really silly, huh?

But, just for fun (since I can't remember), which law of thermodynamics does the production of power violate?

I'm looking at 'em, but I can't find a law of conservation of power. I'm sure that's the one you meant, though, right.

Hmm... I guess I'm going to have to walk to work tomorrow. My car is currently sitting in the driveway producing no power (since none of it's components are doing any work at all), and thanks to xaxxon's newly discovered law of conservation of power, that means it isn't going to be producing power in the future, since it's previous means of doing so was by using stored energy rather than any form of power.

Incidentally, I think I'm going to have to cut this post short. I imagine it's not going to be too long before somebody realizes that computers have nonconstant power systems and it stops working. I just pray nobody gets around to doing the same to all life on this planet.

Re:Quiz Time

[Gabrill]

You flip the 1st switch. Wait 10 minuts. Flip it off and flip on the next switch. Go in the room. If the light is on, it's the second switch. If the light is off and hot its the first switch. If it's off and cold, it's the third switch.

You replying to the burning your finger thread tipped me off.

Re:Yep...

[maxwell demon]

Ok, let's do the math for some realistic example: Say, you want to generate energy from the waste heat of an Athlon 64 3000+ (I've taken this model because that's the first one I've found the required technical data. [planet64bit.de].

Now the maximum temperature allowed for this procesor is 65C (that's 149F, according to Google), or 338K. Now let's assume that it's in a room with 18C (64.4F, according to Google), or 291K. Now let's assume you attach an ideal heat engine to your Athlon 64 (i.e. a heat engine which converts as much heat into usable energy as is allowed by the laws of thermodynamics). Such a heat engine has an efficiency of (338K - 291K)/291 K = 16%. Given that the thermal design power of this processor is 28W to 35W, you'd get an energy output of 4.5W to 5.6W. But note that this assumes

• that you constantly run your processor at maximum allowed temperature (which certainly isn't a good idea; note that lowering the processor's temperature to a more reasonable 40C (104F) would about already halve the ideal efficiency),
• that the heat engine would have a waste heat output of about 24W to 29W, which would inevitably heat up the heat engine's heat sink and thus again reduce the efficiency (unless you do a really good cooling, which probably eats up most of the energy you originally won), and finally
• that you can actually use an ideal heat engine, and a real heat engine would have an even less efficiency (indeed, I'd be surprised if half the theoretical efficiency could be reached).

In short: It's simply not worth the effort.

(BTW, Slashdot ate all my degree signs; it's not my fault that they are missing.)

Re:Clean Power Plants?

[Radon360]

Actually, extracting hydrogen gas from methane isn't bizarre at all. In fact, using a process known as steam reformation, it is the preferred way of producing hydrogen gas for industrial use because it is more economical than electrolysis. The industrial gas companies (BOC, Linde, APT) all use steam reformation to produce hydrogen.

The only problem with converting methane into hydrogen gas is the same problem you have when you burn methane. It produces carbon dioxide.

The key point to remember about hydrogen is that it is a energy storage medium, not a energy source. Arugably, one could say the same about crude oil as stored sunlight energy, but we didn't have to produce it to use it./p