Running Your Electric Meter Backwards 526
kog777 writes to note a story in International Business Times about "net metering," or generating your own power without disconnecting from the grid. Forty states have laws allowing individuals to do this, and many of them offer subsidies and tax breaks for people who do. From the article: "When the sun shines bright on their home in New York's Hudson Valley, John and Anna Bagnall live out a homeowner's fantasy. Their electricity meter runs backward. Solar panels on their barn roof can often provide enough for all their electricity needs. Sometimes — and this is the best part — their solar setup actually pushes power back into the system."
realities? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:realities? (Score:1, Interesting)
net metering to start your own backyard e-trading (Score:5, Interesting)
A. peak rate at $0.40/kWh and off-peak at $0.20kWh
or
B. fixed rate at $0.35/kWh
Now two neighbours sign up for the two different rates, and start their own little energy trading:
Off peak, Neighbour A buys at $0.20 from utility and sells to neigbour B for $0.35. B resells to utility.
During peak hours, Neighbour A buys from B at $0.35m and sells to utility for $0.40.
With a 400A service, they can 800,000kWh a year and make a profit of $80k!
Have fun
Re:realities? (Score:2, Interesting)
The gist of the program is that they will buy, install and maintain a solar electric system for your home. You then sign a contract and agree to pay them for the electricity generated by the solar system. You can sign a contract for 1, 5, 10 or 25 years and you get a fixed rate per Kilowatt throughout the contract period that is your current rate off the grid at the time of sign-up. So if you are currently paying 10 cents a Kilowatt when you sign up for a 25 year contract, then that price is fixed for 25 years.
The beauty of this program is that it allows any homeowner to have a solar system without the huge upfront costs. You will need to continue service with your current electric company as this is a grid-tied system (no batteries). You will need to be in a state that has a net-metering law for it to be of any use (as they will include enough panels to feed the grid during sunny days and then you can draw back your energy credits at night off the grid.) Even though it is possible that you will not be paying any more money to your local electric company for electricity, you may still be charged a monthly connect fee. You will also need to make sure that your homeowners insurance covers the solar system as they will not be responsible for damages such as a tree limb falling on the panels.
Overall, I looked at the program and was quite impressed how consumer friendly it was. I am always looking for the "catch" and I could not really find it. They require a $500 deposit and will only dock you the deposit if you decide to break the contract (as long as you allow them to recover their system and it is in good condition.) They will maintain the system and keep it in good repair throughout the contract like one would expect from a power company. They will even add more panels to your system or subtract panels from your system based on your changing energy needs.
I was pretty impressed, and if they can get enough product together as well as the infrastructure to pull this off, I can see the majority of whole neighborhoods going with this plan. Instant carbon neutrality.
Re:realities? (Score:5, Interesting)
From my own experience, I paid to get insulation pumped into the roof a couple of years after I moved into my first house in the early 90's, no tax breaks or subsidies at that time so I paid the full price. It cut my heating bill in half (well, almost) and it paid for itself in less than 2yrs. Not sure about this, but I think it is compulsory for new buildings to be insulated here in Australia, they all seem have it built in.
Re:Not with your home's current electrical setup. (Score:3, Interesting)
It's not a million miles away from the cheap inverters and UPSes you can buy. One important point is this - it must have an incoming mains supply to work. If there is a power cut, it will shut down, and most aren't smart enough to just disconnect from the grid and leave you on standby power. Why? Well, because it needs a phase reference for the incoming mains, and if the power goes down it has no way of knowing what phase it's going to be when it comes back. Imagine if your inverter is pushing out the full -120v when the incoming mains comes back at +120...
It would be possible to build an inverter that would disconnect the incoming mains supply in the event of a power failure, and "slip" the inverter until it's in phase before dropping it back in, but you'd need something like a 100A contactor for that to work.
Making money from electric co (Score:4, Interesting)
Windmill (Score:3, Interesting)
This is far from an impracticable technology. In the days of wooden ships, the Dutch used to buy English ships that had become waterlogged (yes, they do...) fit them with windmill pumps and continue to use them, just letting the wind keep the bilge dry.
To be really clever, if you manage to set up a windmill pumping system, run it in parallel to the electric pump with a simple rotation sensor (two microswitches and a simple cam on the shaft, linked to a timer circuit) so that when the wind stops, the electric pump starts.
Catch Up (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not sure how well Solar Power works here though
Hydro is good for this. (Score:5, Interesting)
I think some time later the regulations might have changed and the power company would no longer pay him, but at least he still had electricity that was essentially free.
Re:realities? (Score:5, Interesting)
Although solar cells aren't cheap, the prices have come down, and efficiency has gone up over time. It's kinda like buying a computer... If you're waiting for the fastest computer to come out before you buy yours, chances are you're reading this on a TI57 programmable calculator.
If you buy now, your savings start now. If you cover the cost of the cells in saved energy bills and rebates from the power company, then the fact that a 'better' system comes out later doesn't hurt you that much.... Once you have covered the original cost, you can always replace the system with a new one, and you really don't lose anything. (but you get the satisfaction of preventing the waste of a few barrels of increasingly precious oil, and slowing global warming by just a smidgen).
Before you do something, ask yourself "what would happen if a million people did this"?
like computer evolution (Score:3, Interesting)
The appeal comes with the similarities to computer evolution and balance (mainframe/personal) and the internet (grid computing). People can keep telling me it isn't worth it or will never happen (or will be super-inneficient), but I'm always going to hold out for that internet-like energy grid. All your Googles and p2ps working together...figure out a way to sell ads over power and maybe you'll get free power from Google itself. Hmmm...maybe I should patent ads over power lines before it is too late.
Re:It really does work. (Score:5, Interesting)
Government has no right to steal from me, or you, to pay for this guy's pipe dream. If he really wanted to do it, he should have done it with his own dollars, not robbing the tax payer of anything.
Of course the average greenie socialist here would mod me down, but I speak the truth -- there is no such thing as a free lunch, and this guy will get one after only 8 years or so. On your back.
bad bad bad (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Slightly off topic, but ... (Score:4, Interesting)
No. Do the math. From the post it looks like you are advocating a 12 volt system for the house. Right now a 20 amp breaker feeds a 12 AWG wire just fine and you can plug in a 1500 watt hair dryer in the bathroom which is maybe 40 feet from the meter. At full load, the voltage at the outlet may drop a couple volts so you are talking 12 amps current at 2 volts in the wire or 24 watts lost in the entire length of wire.
Now the 12 volt version. From 120 volt to 12 volt at the same wattage (Volts * Amps for a resistive load) you will now need to draw 120 amps instead of 12 for the blow dryer for the same 1500 watts. If you were dumb enough to try using the same 12 AWG wire the 2 volt drop is now 20 volts. OOPS.. We seem to be short 8 volts in the negative direction to get 120 Amps to the bathroom outlet at zero volts. Lets see if it were possible the 20 volt drop in the wire at 120 amps would be 2400 watts of heat in the 40 feet of wire. Can you say HOT!. Maybe we need a larger wire size. Maybe a size big enough to handle the original voltage drop of a couple volts. Our original setup at 120 volts has less than 2% voltage drop. At 12 Volts we now have a little under 20% voltage drop. Hmm we need to go to even bigger wire to reduce the voltage drop to less than
You do the math. Find a copper wire table and find out what AWG wire is required to handle 120 Amps with only
When you are done with the math you will understand why we use 120 volts and some countries use 240 volts. You may get electricuted in an accident, but you don't need welding cable for your hair dryer.
My 1KW inverter in my car uses Welding cable for leads and the length is kept to under 3 feet total to keep the voltage drop within limits.
Price issues (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem is that you would be getting paid retail value for the power you are selling to the company. Looking from their point of view, you should actually have two meters, one to meter the power you buy from them at retail price, and another to meter the power you sell to them, at whatever price they buy power. Otherwise, if everyone started generating their own power part of the time, the power company would go bankrupt.
Re:What is the story? (Score:5, Interesting)
In fact, when I read the title I thought the story was about some kind of hacking box. I do not remember what "color" is it but I do remember once reading some schematics for a box that modified the phase (or something similar) of the AC in your house when you plugged it and made your meter (only if it was analog of course) go backwards. The only thing I remember about the diagram is that it required a HUGE capacitor.
I'd sooner go with wind turbines... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:realities? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Price issues (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Price issues (Score:2, Interesting)
For my electric Coop, SMECO http://www.smeco.com/ [smeco.com] Eugene Bradford of the rates group gives a rough breakdown: The electricity charge is largely what SMECO pays its suppiers though some saleries for the coop's buyers come out of this. The distribution charge and the connection charge cover the infrastructure build out and up keep: Service trucks, billing, linesmen's pay, materials all of that.
The break down in the charge was to allow choice in the supply, so that if you want to work with a green energy supplier you can substitute their rate in the electricity charge.
The issue with net metering is that you avoid the distribution charge but you might be be using the infrastructure to a greater dergree than the connection charge covers.
In Maryland, the very low cap on total net metering (34.7 MW) means that there is no practical issue just now. But, some rate restructuring may be needed according to Phillip VanderHeyden at the Maryland Public Services Commission http://www.psc.state.md.us/psc/index.htm [state.md.us] if Maryland gets with the program like New Jersey and a number of other states with no caps on net metering enrollment.
For now though, people in Maryland who sign up for net metering at http://www.jointhesolution.com/mdsolar [jointhesolution.com] can save money right away, albeit with a tight limit (8500) on how many can participate, because they will avoid the distribution charge. And, BGE customers can even avoid their huge rate increase if they are quick and get 8.8 cents/kWh. Soon, the BGE rate increase will be reflected in the rates we offer since BGE's regualtory filing is now available. In other states compare the offered rate with you're electric bill to see if you get immediate savings. You can use the calculator in the last link to see projected savings that result from the 25 year rate lock in.
This would seem like an excellent alternative... (Score:4, Interesting)
whole house UPS (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:You can do this without solar panels. (Score:3, Interesting)