Thailand Government Cancels OLPC Participation 196
patiwat writes "Thailand's new junta-appointed Education Minister has cancelled Thailand's participation in the One Laptop Per Child project and scrapped a plan to give a 2B1 laptop to every primary school student. He has also cancelled plans to roll out computers and a broadband connection to every single school in Thailand. The cancellation of half a million scholarships for needy students is being studied. He cited the lack of readiness of teachers and the need to focus on basic education standards. "We will not focus too much on technology and materials. We will focus on substance," he said. This comes on the heels of the cancellation of the Thai government's open source policy."
More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:5, Insightful)
This guy needs to manage my Data Center. It is a well known thought (from a sysadmin point of view) that throwing hardware at an undefined problem may mask the issue for a time, but it does not 'usually' solve the problem.
High technology CAN be a liability if it isn't managed correctly.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Funny)
Sometimes you've got to have your priorities straight.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if the technology is managed perfectly, most of the kids are still going to look at these laptops as new toys and expensive nightlights...
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:5, Informative)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2, Funny)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:5, Informative)
I do think Thailand is aware of the benefits of technology. They are having quite the political upheaval, though, and this is probably closely related to the Southern militants [wikipedia.org]. The southern part is where all the violence around schools is happening. (This post [slashdot.org] links to the BBC [bbc.co.uk] and ABC [abc.net.au])
There is definitely a battle for the identity and control of Thailand. I think it's incredible how little blood has been shed in the recent coup. I hope that the government moves back toward democracy, but it looks like Thailand is becoming more of a Communist state.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
(Metaphorically) killing off great opportunities for better education, and trying to reach some stage of technological autarchy, all from a man with a military background... sounds like a mix of the Khmer Rouge agenda with the North Korean Juche system, without all the suppression and genocide, of course...
No, I don't think that his goals will do his country any good.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:3, Insightful)
I hope you don't mean to suggest that communism is the opposite of democracy, communism is totalitarianism, or similar nonsense.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
First of all, "communist government" is a funny phrase, because communism was originally defined as a state where everyone is equal and there is no government, making "communist government" a contradiction in terms. Secondly, the governments you refer to weren't communist. They may have been called that in the west, or in popular usage, but if you look at the official terminology, they would be called "people's republic", "soviet republic", etc. In practice, these governments may have been autocratic, aristocratic, sort of democratic, or totalitarian, but certainly not communist.
The larger point is that communism is not a system of government, but more an economic system. You can have a "communist" the-community-owns-everything-no-single-person-ow
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
The scary thing is the same is happening with "liberal", it's almost an insult to be called liberal these days.
As for NewSpeak, it's doubleplusgood!
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
On the bright side, things are still going pretty well.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:3, Informative)
This semms to be the case only in the US. In Europe, there is a very wide range of very diverse views about communism in general, and about each of the ex-communist states in particular.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:3, Insightful)
Owning your own land and making your own living decentralizes power. These conditions usually lead to some kind of group decision making like a democracy. Having one entity control land and the means of production is centralization and there's no real incentive to go about and have a real democracy when you citizens are more or less powerless serfs.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
Unfortunately, your post is far too informative to get mod points
Comment removed (Score:2)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
The problem is we have stopped using critical thought when we hear the word, we don't look at specifics or facts when it's used, just assume it's wrong or totaliterian. I think Orwell would be just as critical of our blind assumptions as he was of the communist regimes of his time.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:3, Insightful)
What the GP is also saying is that other ideologies can be subjected to the same treatment as Communism. Orwell warned us against totalitarianism, and the current US administration is drawing the US closer to a totalitarian system, under the banner of being liberal democrats (liberal as in the European sense, and democrats in the supporting a government subject to the will of the people sense). It is pretty far away at the moment. But one way in which it is similar is in the treatment of Communists. Communists are dissidents, and the government inspired reflex like hatred of communism that many Americans display would be a good example of the very thing you talk about in your post, that is, a government totally unwilling to tolerate an opposing view, and inspiring the population to do the same. Fortunately in the US it is only one opposing view, Communism. But that does not make the animal farm/1984 reference any less valid.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
``What the GP is also saying is that other ideologies can be subjected to the same treatment as Communism.''
Thank you. You understood what I meant.
``Fortunately in the US it is only one opposing view, Communism.''
What about Islam? What about the view that the government should _not_ spy on all citizens, looking for terrorists? What about the view that holding terrorist suspects indefinitely, without formal accusation or trial, is a Bad Thing? A few years ago, accusations of "letting the terrorists win" were flying at anyone suggesting not to attack Iraq or Afghanistan. Isn't that exactly the kind of knee-jerk reaction that people have when they hear "communism"?
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:2)
Re:Communism was going to come in stages (Score:2)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
I wasn't defending communism, I was merely saying that communism is not the opposite of democracy, nor synonymous with totalitarianism. As far as I'm concerned, anyone is welcome to criticize communism (or anything else), but if they don't get their terminology straight or if I don't agree with their arguments, I'll point that out.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
Well in that case he really screwed up, since one of the biggest distinguishing features of the OLPC is its conspicuous lack of corporate influence. Apparently he doesn't realize that whole thing is explicitly designed to facilitate the creation of new media by the children and customization to fit into their culture.
Not to mention that if he doesn't like Free Software, the only alternative is -- you guessed it -- Microsoft, which really would increase the foreign influence!
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:3, Informative)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
You're being generous. A cynic might suggest that this guy is trading away the technological future of his country's children at the behest of a well heeled international corporation.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
A realist would argue that it is easier to shout "Corruption!" than to look honestly at the flaws in your own program. A realist would remind you that any administration grows weary of the zealot who cannot believe he has lost his case on the merits.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
I think that is clear too. At the very least Thailand could have accepted the laptops and sold them to buy books. Military governments in the past have accepted food supplies for their starving people and sold or otherwise disposed of them improperly. Better yet, requireed Wikipedia on the lpatops and forget the books. Looks like Thailand is headed to be the next North Korea. Idiots at the helm.
TimJowers
http://www.serviza.com/ [serviza.com] - Serviza Monster Linux Computers and Open Source Training Bundles
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
Is it really pranoid if the conclusions are based on known past behaviour?
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2)
Funny how alot of US companies (Microsoft for one) were against this program from the very beginning. Certainly from the MS point of view one of the reasons their monopoly is doing so well is because everybody now learns windows by default so are comfortable with the interface.
If a large proportion of kids were learning another OS one of the main obstacles to more widespread Linux adoption would evaporate when those kids entered the job market. This is one of the main reasons why Microsoft and Apple both have such a generous discount scheme for both students and teachers.
I bet it is a whole lot cheaper to buy a Thai politician than to buy a US of A politician.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:3, Insightful)
So, after a military Coup a major education project under way is canceled along with a reform of the countries IT policies, and teachers in the south of the country start to spontaneously grow bullet holes.
Call me crazy, but somehow I don't really think this new regime is honestly out to create the best education they can.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:2, Informative)
That's not because of the coup. There's an issue with Muslims in the south which has been going on for a long time (indeed, since the south of the country was annexed by the Thai leaders almost 100 years ago).
Having a coup is a Bad Thing, but they're possibly correct in stating that a laptop isn't the most efficient use of a great deal of money.
Relatively Expensive Solution (Score:2)
$500 is not expensive but also is not cheap. There are better uses for that money.
As well, how much can an elementary-school kid get out of a laptop besides playing some games and doing e-mail? Playing games and sending e-mail can be learned in a day. They do not require the kid to own a laptop. He can learn that mindless simple stuff on the library's computer.
The story might be different with a high-school student. He would have enough mathematical knowledge or scientific reasoning to do some nifty projects for the local science fair. Alternatively, he could also use the laptop to write insightful political research papers solving the Iraq quagmire in which Washington is stuck.
The Thai government should consider buying a laptop for all freshmen in high school instead of the pouty kids in elementary school.
Of course, the first computer lesson in high school is "Here is how you write biting commentary in Slashdot. The Slashdotters love that stuff."
Re:Library + Paper = same old failed infrastructur (Score:2)
Because the library is still a better source for a lot of information than the internet:
I'll conceede that the internet is better for some topics where time is very important; but there are many, many more subjects for which the web is a poor substitute for a library.
Finally, and unrelated to why the library is better for most things -- I prefer paper. I spend 8+ hours every day looking at CRT or LCD monitors at work. I don't want to look at yet another monitor.
Oh Well... (Score:2, Funny)
not an Open Source failure (Score:4, Interesting)
Hopefully, /.'ers and others won't look upon this as an
Open Source failure, it isn't. It's (in my opinion) more of a
triumph somewhere of sanity... Technology has it's place, but a
laptop for every child smacks of the program's hubris and less of
a sane approach to helping poor countries.
I think they show real insight when fearing little return on the effort because teachers are poorly trained. Heck, even in wealthy countries teachers consistently have no computer smarts (my sister is a teacher, she hasn't a clue!). Compound that with a techie-Linux platform (I love Linux, but for the mass public, with minimal background and training?) and this program was running off the rails from the beginning.
There are excellent examples of schools in the United States where huge investments in technology for schools showed no tangible gains in students' profieciencies and at the same time examples of poor schools shifting emphasis to basics, discipline, and community with strong academic results.
Technology for technology's sake is just that, but not much of a salve for third world economies, at least not by giving a laptop to every child. I think this is actually a positive development because it has (had) so many ways it could have gone wrong allowing companies like Microsoft down the road to point fingers at Open Source as the culprit, and if only Microsoft had been chosen to save the world.
(For the record, this whole OLPC effort would be just as much of a train wreck with Windows, just a whole heck of a lot more expensive.)
Re:not an Open Source failure - not a failure (Score:5, Insightful)
It hasn't even started yet. It may be a failure, but to declare it a failure is like declaring who has won the 2010 World Cup today.
The OLPC may go to more places than developing countries. There are a number of places that are doing a trial of the system.
With Libya's order going through they have enough to get serious volumes being made. Once they show that then other countries, including richer developed countries may be interested. OLPCs may work well as text book readers. How much does the average school system in a US spend on textbooks per student per year? Who can say now whether some of these uses will take off.
The OLPC may fail, but it hasn't failed yet and it is silly to describe it as having failed before it's even been tried.
Re:not an Open Source failure - not a failure (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't believe it? Go look for yourself. The OLPC FAQ page [laptop.org] brings us such disarmingly trite generalities as:
That's right! Little Juan, Choudary, and Byung-Sun need a "tool" with which to think -- and I thought it was called a "brain". No, they need a window into the world, and a way to learn learning through independent interaction and exploration! Never mind that all of that can be accomplished *without* a $100 laptop in the hands of each child. Want a window into the world? Get them a good library with a few current events publications, and a computer lab with a few internet connected computers. You can build a heck of a good public school library (or 2 or 3) for $50 million dollars
But wait -- there's more in the FAQ [laptop.org]!
Where to begin?? To compare a $100 dollar laptop with a pencil that literally costs pennies is ridiculous. And the final argument, that warm-fuzzy-hot-chocolate-lump-in-your-throat claim... "It's important that the kids OWN something to maintain through love... and care." Awwwww.... how can we say NO to that?! Once again, footballs, dolls, and books don't cost $100 per child.
Your final claim: Makes my mind boggle. By this same logic, anything that hasn't been tried, no matter how stupid, far-fetched, or wrong-headed, should be tried. After all, if it hasn't been tried, it's silly to predict that it will fail, right? Might as well just spend the 50 million dollars and see what happens!
50 million dollars (500,000 laptops * $100) is a LOT of money to gamble with in a developing nation. I'd much rather see them spend that money on projects that have been shown to have a significant positive impact on educational quality -- smaller class sizes; basic health care so that kids don't miss weeks of school; upgrading school facilities with good lights, good water, and a reasonable amount of climate control -- good roofs to keep the rain out, ventilation to keep things cooler in summer, heaters to keep things cooler in winter. Save the OLPC project until it's actually shown that a laptop in the hands of each child will benefit them, rather than wasting money, wasting time, and putting yet another cement block around the neck of developing countries.
thailand is not a third world country! (Score:2)
I think the problem is not hardware for the infrastructure. That is something some well spend money/training can solve. The problem is in the actual curriculum. Where are the books/texts these kids need to read on them. Who is going to write those? What is this going to do the rest of the local market for educational books? This content is instrumental in the succes of the project, but I have seen very little info on how they think to solve that.
50 Billion is a lot of money anywhere, not only in OLPC countries.
Re:thailand is not a third world country! (Score:2)
By all means, show me where you derive your expectation that the OLPC project "makes sense", in the sense that it will result in a substantial, quantifiable improvement in the educational outcomes for these students. I'm perfectly willing to hear the argument, but I've yet to see it made.
All good questions. All questions which the OLPC project does not address. Where are the books & texts? "Give them a computer!" Who's going to write them? "Give them a computer!" What will it do to the rest of the local market? "Give them a computer!" There seems to be this bizarre expectation that children will log onto the web and magically be transformed into Richard Stallman or Bill Gates.
Take, for example, the children who speak Tagalog. If there are no textbooks written in the language, where is the "wealth" of online information they'll find, written in Tagalog? Do we point them to the couple thousand articles on Wikipedia and say, "have fun!"? This money is better spent on one of two things: Translating textbooks to local languages, or teaching the kids to speak English (or some other, widely spoken language in which good textbooks are printed -- French, German, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, what have you), and then hiring & training qualified teachers to teach.
I'll use OLPC's argument against them: In their FAQ, they compare having a laptop to having a pencil. Did you become magically smarter when your teacher handed you your first pencil? Right -- it's a tool. Not an outcome . It's a means, not an end.
Actually, it technically is! (Score:2)
Was Thailand a member of NATO or otherwise a US ally during the Cold War? No. Therefore, it is not a "first world" country. Was it a member of the Eastern Bloc? No. Therefore, it is not a "second world" country. What's left? The "third world," aka "everywhere else." Thailand is a third world country.
By the way, as far as categorizing countries by prosperity goes, I've heard of really poor countries being called "fourth world," not third.
Re:not an Open Source failure - not a failure (Score:2)
OLPC original definitely is not just a text book reader, dude. By considering redirecting the target market, seems like you're admitting the idea of OLPC in developing countries is a failure.
Re:not an Open Source failure - not a failure (Score:2)
Re:not an Open Source failure (Score:2)
Re:not an Open Source failure (Score:2)
Sure, maybe Thailand need to organize their education system first... But look at Brazil, where I live, we already have a quite well organized educational system, it has been forgotten, but it seems that it's on our government agenda again.
Here we have the same educational program across all public schools, the government distributes free textbooks for the children, and most of the teachers come from public schools. Of course there are problems, like underpaid teachers and unequipped schools, but if we can trust the news these are going to be addressed as well.
So Brazil is ready for the OLPC, more than that, we NEED something like OLPC. There's already computers being sold with Linux, they have tax reductions under the "Computador Popular" program, that hope to make computers accessible for more people. Linux is well known around here, even among computer illiterate... and there's lots of active user groups.
Theres lots of OpenSource efforts within the governament also, the main government site uses ZOPE/PLONE (www.brasil.gov.br)! And probably I'm one of the few here at Slashdot that can brag about being able to do my taxes on Linux!
Now, if we only could get something like OLPC for small business... that would be a hit around here too!
Re:not an Open Source failure (Score:2)
Oh, cut the crap. Linux is just the kernel that does the work behind the scenes. Users don't interface with the kernel directly. Your end users get to work with what's built on top of the kernel, and there's absolutely no reason that would be more "techie" than the stuff you would build on top of another kernel.
Even if your end users do dig down to the kernel level, Linux is a good choice, because it's well-known, open source, and widely used, meaning that users may know how to tinker with it, are allowed to tinker with it, and can apply what they learn to other systems they might encounter later on.
Besides that, Linux is free, supports a wide range of hardware, and is stable and well tested. All of these are advantages for a project like OLPC.
Steel ones (Score:2)
Not that I necessarily disagree with him. If those schools are worried about their power bills, giving the kids laptops and high speed internet is NOT the solution. Maybe the cuts necessary to pay the power bills could have come from some other crazy scheme, though. I dunno. I haven't seen their budget.
At least he didn't mention starving children, though.
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Insightful)
More likely, he is canceling this because the last thing a military dictatorship wants is informed citizens.
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Insightful)
It occurs to me that one of the stories told about widespread internet use is that people would be able to do things like "look up how to fix their irrigation systems on the web". Well, I've been using the web since Mosaic 2.0, and I'm much less able to fix a truck, repair an irrigation system, care for a garden, or do a whole bunch of other things that I know a lot of other people who aren't using the net know how to do. If I want to learn how to fix a truck, I might use my laptop to find a school or a place to do it - but then I'm just replacing the yellow pages. I'm more likely to find someone in my own personal social network who has the skills I want to acquire, and hang out with them.
The one practical thing that net connectivity has given me is access to recipes for cooking that I didn't have before. If the OLPC enables children in the developing world to cook eggplant parmigiana, I guess that's a good thing, but it's probably a lot less ambitious than what the creators had in mind.
The early zeal of the project isn't even a matter of "having a hammer and seeing every problem as a nail," it's more like "having a cantaloupe and thinking it's a hammer, and then throwing your cantaloupe at vaguely nail-shaped kittens."
Re:Steel ones (Score:2)
There are a few more:
But outside of that I guess you are right. I don't cook, so I can't say much about your recipe theory. I would only add news to the list, but that's hardly necessary, and all that matters will eventually propagate through traditional means anyway.
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Insightful)
It depends on the person.
Some people aren't into DIY, so they use the web to look for someone to buy from.
Some people are into DIY and use the web for things other than shopping.
In my case, some of the things I have used the web for are:
Probably not the things a person in a developing country might look for, but that is because I don't live in a developing country. It does demonstrate that the web is a useful reference library, and I contend that the web contains information that is useful to a person in a developing country, that they would otherwise miss out on.
For example I've heard of villagers using the web to monitor world prices for various crops they grow, placing them in a stronger bargaining position when the people they sell to try to understate prices.
I don't think there is any question that the developing world needs the Internet. The question is how to best get it to them. Many people seem to view the Internet as a luxury, which it is if used for entertainment or amusement. The flip side of the Internet is textbooks, meteorological reports, market prices and the like, which are necessities for anything but a subsistence life style. Maybe people in developed countries take these necessities for granted, so don't notice the Internet's role in providing them?
If not OLPC what then? Information can be distributed on paper but as the volume and timeliness of information picks up the Internet is cheaper. OLPC seems like a cute misnomer for "Internet without infrastructure".
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Informative)
It is not permitted to fail in a Thai school. So, the teachers either keep testing and testing until a pass is obtained, or they simply make the lowest grade a pass, and distribute the rest of the marks accordingly. I know, because I was forced to do this. The Thais need to focus on sham. And as far as I know, the Thai university system is not accredited.
In the provinces, things are the same, except not nearly as wired.
Re:Steel ones (Score:2)
If a farmer knew what the actual market rate for his crop is, he would be in a much better position to negotiate a fair price. Even if it is only a single computer in a village that had this access, the whole village could sell their crop as a cooperative, cut out the middleman, and have real bargaining power.
As it is, lacking this information, they are completely at the mercy of what the middleman is gracious enough to pay.
And, yes, they will have better information for fixing and upgrading their irrigation systems. You don't use the internet to learn how to fix your truck because it is a much better use of your time to take it to a garage and let a professional work on it while you go to your job and make money to pay him with. In the third world, there aren't any professionals, and people wouldn't have money to pay them with anyway, so they must do that kind fo repairwork themselves.
Re:Steel ones (Score:2)
No bravery. He cut projects of the PREVIOUS government. They had a coup a few months ago, the army appointed the current government. It's traditional to cut the previous administration's pork barrel projects to make room for your own.
Re:Steel ones (Score:2)
That would have been a real coup (Score:2)
Cancellation is extreme (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Cancellation is extreme (Score:2)
Good Decision (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Good Decision (Score:2)
Re:Good Decision (Score:2)
A representative of the Junta will be happy to appoint your candidate as soon as they have assumed power.
And who said Juntas were all bad?
Poll says Thai citizens ... (Score:2)
There was no poll -- who is asking the citizens? It doesn't matter what a poll says or what the citizens want. Unless, of course, the generals decide it matters.
Makes sense (Score:2)
-matthew
Re:Makes sense (Score:2, Interesting)
The OLPC advances an idea (to me somewhat orthogonal to basic educational practice) that connecting laptops connects the students together in ways that gives rise to other beneficial effects. Since we're all sitting here reading Slashdot it's an easy analogy -- Slashdot creates a community with a shared common interest, but with diverse opinions on those interests, and at the end of the day it's that diversity that is of interest. We read to learn what others think. So OLPC (ought to) create a means for children to interact with other children with the same effect, but on many other topics besides "news for nerds." And that sounds like a fine idea to me.
Re:Makes sense (Score:2)
Sounds a lot like "to somehow make them learn more" to me. Just a lot of hand waving.
Look, I've seen some pretty poor schools in the US.. schools that can barely afford basic building maintenance and books for students. I can only assume that your average Thai school is worse off. If this is the case, giving kids computers is a waste. It is an absurd misappropriation of resources. But please, by all means, show me I am wrong. Show me that Thai schools can, on average, afford basic materials, a secure environment, decent teachers, books, etc. If the basics are covered, then start playing with laptops and such. Think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs here. It applies very well to education.
-matthew
Re:Makes sense (Score:2)
Is it, really? I learned English from playing computer games, and got into programming at an early age, because I had access to a PC. There are various educational computer games that help develop reading, writing, logical thinking, motor, etc. skills. Also, computers are what countries and economies run on, and how people access the WWW (which contains a wealth of information), and communicate (email, chat, voice and video). Perhaps, the sooner people know how to use these things, the better.
Understandable... (Score:2)
Also, this isn't a permanent dynamic in a variety of ways. With a GDP of around $8,600 per person, both the affordability of more and more capable computers and the income per person can reach further towards eachother in a rather quick order. Also, despite the slight blow to open source in government, the growing private and educational sectors can pursue the technological excellence that the government at large cannot politically take up.
$100 computers will offer hope, and widespread open source adoption will bring deep innovation and economic improvement anywhere - but weigh that against $100 spent in many other ways, or the concentrated organized effort and political costs needed to push open source over commercial software wherever possible, and you don't end up with something politically possible now. That shouldn't be a shock.
I do think it sucks if anyone sees this as a blow against open source - but I don't see it that way. I do think it hopeful in a sense that governments can see the ideal behind open source development and emerging cheap technologies that can improve people's lives - but I don't think we should expect such things to be used as more than leverage in debates until there are no other cultural issues seen in competition against action other than just commercial value V. open source values. And at that point, no legislation will really be needed.
Ryan Fenton
Re:Understandable... (Score:2)
Re:Understandable... (Score:2)
A lot has been said here about the $100-$150 OLPC. Less about the cost of the infrastructure needed to support it. Instructional materials. Internet access. Teacher training and so on--and perhaps not enough about whether the machine is best described as a general-purpose laptop, a PDA or an e-book reader.
Glad to see that rationalism is not dead yet (Score:4, Interesting)
High levels of government corruption in participating countries is not a coincidence either. Someone will make a lot of money on this, and you can bet it won't be teachers.
Re:Glad to see that rationalism is not dead yet (Score:4, Informative)
According to CIA factbook (Score:2)
Gotta agree with Mr. Gates here. The primary vehicle for computerization in these countries will be the cell phone. It has sufficient processing power and connectivity is built in. The infrastructure is already available in a lot of places. Two things are missing from most cell phones right now - QWERTY keyboard and TV out. They can be added easily and cheaply.
Check out the related stories (Score:2)
I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop (Score:2)
Evolution... (Score:2)
Some contextual links deleted by the editors (Score:3, Informative)
The "junta" being referred to is the Council for National Security [wikipedia.org], a clique of the Thai army that seized power in the 19 September coup [wikipedia.org].
The Education Minister is Wijit Srisa-arn [wikipedia.org], a former Opposition member of parliament.
http://en.wikipedia/wiki/ [en.wikipedia]
More hardware != more infrastructure (Score:2)
Re:More hardware != more infrastructure (Score:2)
You're right in general, but not in this case. IIRC, the OLPC laptops can be powered by hand and create their own mesh network.
Time to Call In These Guys: (Score:2)
Ideal government industry partnership (Score:2)
Maybe we should try that here.
Wait.........
Cheers
Misery Loves Company, it means we are not alone? (Score:2)
NOTE: Warriors have a code, (1) Do your duty honorably, (2) Death before cowardice, (3) We are the FAMILY - ALWAYS FAITHFUL, never do we abandoned family, give up hope, or die alone. (4) Warriors are responsible for individual personal actions. (5) Politicians, and Generals are in command and responsible for the war and failures.
I will alway support our Warriors, fuck the damn politics!
What's the Redmond connection .. (Score:2)
What possibly could a software vendor teach educators about education .
In local news... (Score:2)
Re:The truth has been revealed... (Score:2)
Re:Teach a man to phish ... (Score:3, Insightful)
With respect, I disagree: I don't feel that children in developing nations need a chance to learn about computers nearly as much as they need encouragement to dream of and plan for ways to improve their society using their ideas and their heritage.
Perhaps the "Great White Hunter" metaphor isn't the best choice, but no matter how it's expressed, the fact remains that computers are a product of, and therefore cursed by, the legacy of an industrial economy that wants people to buy things whether they need them or not. I don't think that "we" (the all-knowing, tall, white guys like you see on TV) have any right to tell the rest of the world that an abacus isn't just as good as a computer for counting.
The Western nations might desire "cheap (computer literate) labor", but what we need is visionary talent willing to risk new and different ways of solving our problems. Genius doesn't come cheap, no matter where it's from, but it's always cheaper than trying to convince the rest of the world to copy us and our way of looking at the world.
FWIW. YMMV.
Bellhead
On the other hand.. (Score:2)
I'm disappointed, but this guy is 100% new AFAIK - it's actually too early to know what he'll do.
Re:Thinking style of a Developing Nation's Governm (Score:2)
Your experience does not translate. (Score:3, Insightful)
I didn't see my first computer until I was 11, didn't own a Pc until I was 13, and didn't own a PC with a GUI until I was 18. Yet here I am, a member of the "techno elite".
Your schools could afford textbooks and libraries. That's why most of your peers are literate. Those things don't work where you can't afford them. Today, you consider electronic publications cheaper and better than paper publications. It's the same way for schools and that's the point of the OLPC program.
Re:Before OLPC... RRR (Score:2)
didn't see my first computer until I was 11, didn't own a Pc until I was 13, and didn't own a PC with a GUI until I was 18. Yet here I am, a member of the "techno elite". It's not going to hurt these kids to get a good grounding in the basics and get the computers a little later in their education.
I did not see a computer until I was 18 and went to college. However, I was so interested in computers before that time that I had bought programming books and wrote programs without even the possibility of compiling them. I took computer science as a minor, and I was humiliated. I had huge troubles writing even simple programs, because I did not really understand what computers were about and how they worked. At the same time, other students were producing programs that worked at incredible speeds. Later on I found out that these other students had had computers at home at least since they were 15, 16 years of age. However, by that time I had given up hope that I could ever mean something in the world of computing. That changed after I bought a C64 and started playing around with it. I got work as a commercial programmer, went back to college, and got a master's and later a PhD in computer science.
The point is that having had access to a computer in my teens would have shaved YEARS of my education.
Also, when I look back at how I used to write papers and do research, compared to how I do it now, I see that having access to something like the Internet speeds up research and education enormously. Sure, there's a lot of trash out there, but if you have never been without modern-day online facilities, you have no idea how much they really mean.
The OLPC is not for raising new programmers. It is for giving people access to a hoard of information and to facilities that allow them to collaborate with others in work and education. It is not the only requirement to get ahead in life, but it is incredibly helpful.
Re:Before OLPC... RRR (Score:2)
Re:Why not use old equipment rather than melt down (Score:2)
We are calling them obsolete because they are. OLPCs use very little electricity. An old refurbished PC would use up so much electricity that an OLPC would pay for itself in a year or two.
In case you haven't heard the news, energy prices are up and making electricity requires burning stuff, which in turns releases CO2 in the atmosphere.
Re:Why not use old equipment rather than melt down (Score:3, Interesting)
Not that it's an inherently bad idea to ship refurbished computers to some people. But the OLPC will be more useful in more situations than used kit.
What's stopping you from taking a year out to work with a programme where you will help the locals sort through the e-waste we're currently dumping in Africa [bbc.co.uk] to find any usable parts and assemble working computers (and probably other appliances) which could then be sold? All you'll need are a fine-tipped soldering iron, a digital storage oscilloscope, a known-working computer, a good set of tools, a generator and a few CDs of Open Source software. Be prepared to write the whole lot off if you don't make enough money to replace everything within the first year. You will also have to teach the locals how to do the work after you have gone home. It won't interfere too much with the OLPC project anyway, since OLPC's goals are different.
Re:and in other news... (Score:2)
The reader costs $150.
How much does it cost to adapt or produce 1000 titles for a PDA display? To train teachers and kids in the effective use of the library?
If you want kids to read you had better give them something that is as easy on the eyes and gives them as much pleasure as the printed book.
Plain ASCII text or HTML is not going to do the job.