patiwat writes "Thailand's new junta-appointed Education Minister has cancelled Thailand's participation in the One Laptop Per Child project and scrapped a plan to give a 2B1 laptop to every primary school student. He has also cancelled plans to roll out computers and a broadband connection to every single school in Thailand. The cancellation of half a million scholarships for needy students is being studied. He cited the lack of readiness of teachers and the need to focus on basic education standards. "We will not focus too much on technology and materials. We will focus on substance," he said. This comes on the heels of the cancellation of the Thai government's open source policy."
"He cited the lack of readiness of teachers and the need to focus on basic education standards."
This guy needs to manage my Data Center. It is a well known thought (from a sysadmin point of view) that throwing hardware at an undefined problem may mask the issue for a time, but it does not 'usually' solve the problem.
High technology CAN be a liability if it isn't managed correctly.
I agree, but right now he seems to be focused on saving money instead of redirecting learning curriculum. I doubt he would bother to train better teachers.
I agree, but right now he seems to be focused on saving money instead of redirecting learning curriculum.
That's very nice for you to say, but what would you do if like him you were behind on your mansion payments ? Sometimes you've got to have your priorities straight.
I think what the guy has realised is that a cheap laptop is certainly not going to be some silver bullet in the heart of bad education. It's going to take far more than a flashy new piece of hardware to turn around a stumbling educational system...
Even if the technology is managed perfectly, most of the kids are still going to look at these laptops as new toys and expensive nightlights...
I fear that you're wrong, and the guy is just a conservative technophobe. Internet access in schools can be amazingly useful for helping the students teach themselves. No matter how many books the school has, it can't come even close to the amount of knowledge contained in the internet.
I fear that you're wrong, and the guy is just a conservative technophobe
The new Prime Minister, Surayud Chulanont [wikipedia.org], is a born-and-raised military man. He seeks to strengthen Thailand. I suspect that spending large sums on outside technology which will tend to increase the influence of outside media (such as the US and China) leads him to take a dim view of the OLPC project, along with the other cancelled and soon-to-be-cancelled educational initiatives. I don't think this action is related to the cancellation of the open source policy.
I do think Thailand is aware of the benefits of technology. They are having quite the political upheaval, though, and this is probably closely related to the Southern militants [wikipedia.org]. The southern part is where all the violence around schools is happening. (This post [slashdot.org] links to the BBC [bbc.co.uk] and ABC [abc.net.au])
There is definitely a battle for the identity and control of Thailand. I think it's incredible how little blood has been shed in the recent coup. I hope that the government moves back toward democracy, but it looks like Thailand is becoming more of a Communist state.
The new Prime Minister, Surayud Chulanont, is a born-and-raised military man. He seeks to strengthen Thailand. I suspect that spending large sums on outside technology which will tend to increase the influence of outside media (such as the US and China) leads him to take a dim view of the OLPC project, along with the other cancelled and soon-to-be-cancelled educational initiatives.
(Metaphorically) killing off great opportunities for better education, and trying to reach some stage of technological autarchy, all from a man with a military background... sounds like a mix of the Khmer Rouge agenda with the North Korean Juche system, without all the suppression and genocide, of course...
No, I don't think that his goals will do his country any good.
``No, I don't get why anyone would think that communism was inherently totalitarian and anti-democratic, let alone brutal and dehumanising, just because this has been true of every country with a communist government, ever.''
First of all, "communist government" is a funny phrase, because communism was originally defined as a state where everyone is equal and there is no government, making "communist government" a contradiction in terms. Secondly, the governments you refer to weren't communist. They may have been called that in the west, or in popular usage, but if you look at the official terminology, they would be called "people's republic", "soviet republic", etc. In practice, these governments may have been autocratic, aristocratic, sort of democratic, or totalitarian, but certainly not communist.
The larger point is that communism is not a system of government, but more an economic system. You can have a "communist" the-community-owns-everything-no-single-person-own s-anything economic system, and any form of government, including democracy.
You're fighting a losing battle here. The word and idea 'communism' was hijacked during the McCarthy era and now is synonymous with evil and wrong. It's a short circuit in most Western people's brains that's basically been programmed from birth. They can't think around it - communism == EVIL!
The scary thing is the same is happening with "liberal", it's almost an insult to be called liberal these days.
This semms to be the case only in the US. In Europe, there is a very wide range of very diverse views about communism in general, and about each of the ex-communist states in particular.
I dont think there have been any 'free' communist societies. The main problem, and this is why people equate communism and dictatorships, is that when you livelihood comes from the government (they control all land and all business) its very difficult to express your concerns or even vote someone out of office. Its like voting against your boss, except your boss will probably know how you voted. Thats why so many communist elections are shams. Owning your own land and making your own living decentralizes
Animal Farm/1984 are a warning against totalitarianism. Orwell hated Facism and Communism both because he felt they both lead to totalitarianism. The GP is trying to point out that it is theoretically possible to have the communist system of collective ownership under a democracy. It is not an American style liberal democracy because property rights have been widely violated. What the GP is also saying is that other ideologies can be subjected to the same treatment as Communism. Orwell warned us against tota
No I shouldn't generalise, I agree. I'm actually British but I've learned from experience that if I'd stated it was a purely American problem I'd have been modded down in seconds. And to be fair the same problem does exist here in the UK, though to much lesser degree. People here are less likely to react without thinking, but it still happens and it does seem to be growing. I could blame everything from American TV, to Reality TV shows to just a general dumbing down of the media but I have no idea where the
Last Sunday I heard a brilliant talk on the use of FOSS in Indian primary schools. It was pretty evident that the biggest problem is that the teacher does not know how to use the computer. The solution is education and development of easy software, which was oriented towards some very specific limited goals.
https://foss.in/2006/cfp/speakers/talkdetailspub.p hp?talkid=183 [foss.in]
I think what the guy has realised is that a cheap laptop is certainly not going to be some silver bullet in the heart of bad education.
You're being generous. A cynic might suggest that this guy is trading away the technological future of his country's children at the behest of a well heeled international corporation.
OK. So, after a military Coup a major education project under way is canceled along with a reform of the countries IT policies, and teachers in the south of the country start to spontaneously grow bullet holes.
Call me crazy, but somehow I don't really think this new regime is honestly out to create the best education they can.
$500 is not expensive but also is not cheap. There are better uses for that money.
As well, how much can an elementary-school kid get out of a laptop besides playing some games and doing e-mail? Playing games and sending e-mail can be learned in a day. They do not require the kid to own a laptop. He can
Hopefully,/.'ers and others won't look upon this as an
Open Source failure, it isn't. It's (in my opinion) more of a
triumph somewhere of sanity... Technology has it's place, but a
laptop for every child smacks of the program's hubris and less of
a sane approach to helping poor countries.
I think they show real insight when fearing little return on
the effort because teachers are poorly trained. Heck, even in
wealthy countries teachers consistently have no computer smarts
(my sister is a teacher, she hasn't a clue!). Compound that with
a techie-Linux platform (I love Linux, but for the mass public,
with minimal background and training?) and this program was
running off the rails from the beginning.
There are excellent examples of schools in the United States
where huge investments in technology for schools
showed no tangible gains in students' profieciencies and at the
same time examples of poor schools shifting emphasis to basics,
discipline, and community with strong academic results.
Technology for technology's sake is just that, but not much of
a salve for third world economies, at least not by giving a
laptop to every child. I think this is actually a positive
development because it has (had) so many ways it could have gone
wrong allowing companies like Microsoft down the road to point fingers
at Open Source as the culprit, and if only Microsoft had been
chosen to save the world.
(For the record, this whole OLPC effort would be just as much
of a train wreck with Windows, just a whole heck of a lot more
expensive.)
How do you know the OLPC program is a failure? What criteria were set for it to be a success that it hasn't met yet?
It hasn't even started yet. It may be a failure, but to declare it a failure is like declaring who has won the 2010 World Cup today.
The OLPC may go to more places than developing countries. There are a number of places that are doing a trial of the system.
With Libya's order going through they have enough to get serious volumes being made. Once they show that then other countries, including richer developed countries may be interested. OLPCs may work well as text book readers. How much does the average school system in a US spend on textbooks per student per year? Who can say now whether some of these uses will take off.
The OLPC may fail, but it hasn't failed yet and it is silly to describe it as having failed before it's even been tried.
How do you know the OLPC program is a failure? What criteria were set for it to be a success that it hasn't met yet?
More to the point, what criteria were set at all for the program? All I see, looking at the laptop.org web site, are a bunch of fuzzy "Think of the kids!" generalities that talk about how wonderful it would be for the world's poorest kids in the remotest regions to have laptops. Not because there's hard evidence to show that having a laptop will substantially improve the quality of education for these kids, but because it'll make them feel good, and give them a sense of responsibility.
Don't believe it? Go look for yourself. The OLPC FAQ page [laptop.org] brings us such disarmingly trite generalities as:
Why do children in developing nations need laptops?
Laptops are both a window and a tool: a window into the world and a tool with which to think. They are a wonderful way for all children to learn learning through independent interaction and exploration.
That's right! Little Juan, Choudary, and Byung-Sun need a "tool" with which to think -- and I thought it was called a "brain". No, they need a window into the world, and a way to learn learning through independent interaction and exploration! Never mind that all of that can be accomplished *without* a $100 laptop in the hands of each child. Want a window into the world? Get them a good library with a few current events publications, and a computer lab with a few internet connected computers. You can build a heck of a good public school library (or 2 or 3) for $50 million dollars
Why is it important for each child to have a computer? What's wrong with community-access centers?
One does not think of community pencils--kids have their own. They are tools to think with, sufficiently inexpensive to be used for work and play, drawing, writing, and mathematics. A computer can be the same, but far more powerful. Furthermore, there are many reasons it is important for a child to own something--like a football, doll, or book--not the least of which being that these belongings will be well-maintained through love and care.
Where to begin?? To compare a $100 dollar laptop with a pencil that literally costs pennies is ridiculous. And the final argument, that warm-fuzzy-hot-chocolate-lump-in-your-throat claim... "It's important that the kids OWN something to maintain through love... and care." Awwwww.... how can we say NO to that?! Once again, footballs, dolls, and books don't cost $100 per child.
Your final claim:
The OLPC may fail, but it hasn't failed yet and it is silly to describe it as having failed before it's even been tried.
Makes my mind boggle. By this same logic, anything that hasn't been tried, no matter how stupid, far-fetched, or wrong-headed, should be tried. After all, if it hasn't been tried, it's silly to predict that it will fail, right? Might as well just spend the 50 million dollars and see what happens!
50 million dollars (500,000 laptops * $100) is a LOT of money to gamble with in a developing nation. I'd much rather see them spend that money on projects that have been shown to have a significant positive impact on educational quality -- smaller class sizes; basic health care so that kids don't miss weeks of school; upgrading school facilities with good lights, good water, and a reasonable amount of climate control -- good roofs to keep the rain out, ventilation to keep things cooler in summer, heaters to keep things cooler in winter. Save the OLPC project until it's actually shown that a laptop in the hands of each child will benefit them, rather than wasting money, wasting time, and putting yet another cement block around the neck of developing countries.
You have to admit, that man has some. To cancel such a high-visibility project like this... Wow. Especially while admitted that they were ploys to get elected. Wow. Even while admitting that it was an election-winning campaign, he cuts it. Not that I necessarily disagree with him. If those schools are worried about their power bills, giving the kids laptops and high speed internet is NOT the solution. Maybe the cuts necessary to pay the power bills could have come from some other crazy scheme, though.
What surprises me is how few people really disagree with you here. I think there's a growing sense that OLPC is a boondoggle, and it is to their credit that more and more geeks are realizing it.
It occurs to me that one of the stories told about widespread internet use is that people would be able to do things like "look up how to fix their irrigation systems on the web". Well, I've been using the web since Mosaic 2.0, and I'm much less able to fix a truck, repair an irrigation system, care for a garden, or do a whole bunch of other things that I know a lot of other people who aren't using the net know how to do. If I want to learn how to fix a truck, I might use my laptop to find a school or a place to do it - but then I'm just replacing the yellow pages. I'm more likely to find someone in my own personal social network who has the skills I want to acquire, and hang out with them.
The one practical thing that net connectivity has given me is access to recipes for cooking that I didn't have before. If the OLPC enables children in the developing world to cook eggplant parmigiana, I guess that's a good thing, but it's probably a lot less ambitious than what the creators had in mind.
The early zeal of the project isn't even a matter of "having a hammer and seeing every problem as a nail," it's more like "having a cantaloupe and thinking it's a hammer, and then throwing your cantaloupe at vaguely nail-shaped kittens."
But outside of that I guess you are right. I don't cook, so I can't say much about your recipe theory. I would only add news to the list, but that's hardly necessary, and all that matters will eventually propagate through traditional means anyway.
Some people aren't into DIY, so they use the web to look for someone to buy from.
Some people are into DIY and use the web for things other than shopping.
In my case, some of the things I have used the web for are:
Information on growing food in my garden: varieties of plants, propagating from seed, care of plants,...
Information on caring for and chemistry of swimming pools.
Design of irrigation systems and rainwater collection systems
Investigating the feasibility of systems to supplement my house's electricity supply
Information on house maintenance and how to do various jobs
Furniture and cabinet making
Probably not the things a person in a developing country might look for, but that is because I don't live in a developing country. It does demonstrate that the web is a useful reference library, and I contend that the web contains information that is useful to a person in a developing country, that they would otherwise miss out on.
For example I've heard of villagers using the web to monitor world prices for various crops they grow, placing them in a stronger bargaining position when the people they sell to try to understate prices.
I don't think there is any question that the developing world needs the Internet. The question is how to best get it to them. Many people seem to view the Internet as a luxury, which it is if used for entertainment or amusement. The flip side of the Internet is textbooks, meteorological reports, market prices and the like, which are necessities for anything but a subsistence life style. Maybe people in developed countries take these necessities for granted, so don't notice the Internet's role in providing them?
If not OLPC what then? Information can be distributed on paper but as the volume and timeliness of information picks up the Internet is cheaper. OLPC seems like a cute misnomer for "Internet without infrastructure".
I taught in a Thai high school for a year. Thai children, at least in
Bangkok, are quite proficient with computers, more so than you would
think. BKK is rife with pc cafes and gaming spots, and the schools are
largely wired. However, the level of teaching ALL SUBJECTS is appalling,
outside of the private schools. Thai children constantly do very poorly
on benchmark testing, within ASEAN itself.
It is not permitted to fail in a Thai school. So, the teachers either
keep testing and testing until a pass is obtained, or they simply make
the lowest grade a pass, and distribute the rest of the marks
accordingly. I know, because I was forced to do this. The Thais need to
focus on sham. And as far as I know, the Thai university system is not
accredited.
In the provinces, things are the same, except not nearly as wired.
You have to admit, that man has some. To cancel such a high-visibility project like this... Wow. Especially while admitted that they were ploys to get elected. Wow. Even while admitting that it was an election-winning campaign, he cuts it.
No bravery. He cut projects of the PREVIOUS government. They had a coup a few months ago, the army appointed the current government. It's traditional to cut the previous administration's pork barrel projects to make room for your own.
I don't see cancellation as being necessary. Perhaps a more moderate, phased in approach would work. Start with magnet type schools and go from there. Taking time to do it right makes sense but to outright cancel seems extreme.
Computers in magnet type schools do not require personal attention of the government, in any country. A mayor would be the right person to set up a few of such schools for children who can (and want to) take the course. And about cancelation - this is the right time, and the only possible time, to do it. Children don't need computers if their teachers haven't been trained to use them, as the minister points out. You can always spend money on computers, this is not a one time offer; in the mean time, he
An education minister that's taking serious steps to increase the quality of education in his country instead of just throwing money at useless projects? How do we get him appointed to the US cabinet?
An education minister that's taking serious steps to increase the quality of education in his country instead of just throwing money at useless projects? How do we get him appointed to the US cabinet?
An education minister that's taking serious steps to increase the quality of education in his country instead of just throwing money at useless projects? How do we get him appointed to the US cabinet?
A representative of the Junta will be happy to appoint your candidate as soon as they have assumed power.
There was no poll -- who is asking the citizens? It doesn't matter what a poll says or what the citizens want. Unless, of course, the generals decide it matters.
I'm sure the money would be much better spent on basic education and materials than on computer hardware. The very idea that giving computers to children will somehow make them learn more is just stupid. Maybe there is a very small minority of kids that would take the computer and hack around and learn stuff, but the vast majority of the kids are going abuse the computers (both physically and software-wise) and not get anything out of them but smoke.
In the world of politics, in ANY nation, this is a very understandable result. Computers can and do change the world every day, including enriching the imagination and lives of many, many children - but for all the wonders of the world of computers, they are quite simply NOTHING in the face of basic education needed to allow them to both exist and be useful to a society. Not that such education isn't present in Thailand, or that computers couldn't elevate or create new possibilities if made more common -
The guy sounds quite rational there. I mean, there's bad education and then there's complete and utter lack of education. If you're in a country where 10% of people can't read and write (1% in USA, Canada and European countries, 0.5% in Russia) - you'll be better off if you spend the money on teaching them how to read and write. No fancy hardware is necessary - just a pen, a book and some paper. If you're in a country where 95+ percent of people are literate but computing is not easily accessible to high schoolers - that one can benefit from OLPC type program a lot more. Things are incomparably worse in India (which is why I guess it declined to participate early on). 30% of male and 52% of female population can't read or write. In Nigeria, percentages are 25 and 40% correspondingly. In Brazil - 14 and 13% correspondingly. In Argentina - 3 and 3%. Based on this, out of four countries in OLPC project (Brazil, Argentina, Thailand and Nigeria), only one country - Argentina - can potentially benefit from spending on OLPC more than from spending on basic education. In order to run, you first need to learn how to walk.
High levels of government corruption in participating countries is not a coincidence either. Someone will make a lot of money on this, and you can bet it won't be teachers.
Thailand already has basic education covered. Thailand's adult literacy rate is male 95%, female 91%. For children, it is 98%. See here [ilo.org]. By your own definition, that would potentially allow Thai children to greatly benefit from the OLPC.
With respect, I disagree: I don't feel that children in developing nations need a chance to learn about computers nearly as much as they need encouragement to dream of and plan for ways to improve their society using their ideas and their heritage.
Perhaps the "Great White Hunter" metaphor isn't the best choice, but no matter how it's expressed, the fact remains that computers are a product of, and therefore cursed by, the legacy of an industrial economy that wants people to buy things whether they need them
OTOH, he *could* just be planning to replace "get high marks if you wear a short skirt" with people that actually care about teaching. Teaching in Thailand won't make you rich, but the free healthcare is what draws, and that doesn't always equate to capable people doing the job.
I'm disappointed, but this guy is 100% new AFAIK - it's actually too early to know what he'll do.
Ok, the student has now his new and shiny computer that can calculate tanh(0!/2). How much useful this will be if student doesn't understand what this notation means? And how much of a computer does your teacher need to teach math? Aside from the most basic arithmetic, all math is symbolic, and you don't need any computer to calculate integrals. An engineer does benefit from a differential equation solver in his pocket, but a student does not need to know the numeric answer; his task usually is to come
I didn't see my first computer until I was 11, didn't own a Pc until I was 13, and didn't own a PC with a GUI until I was 18. Yet here I am, a member of the "techno elite".
Your schools could afford textbooks and libraries. That's why most of your peers are literate. Those things don't work where you can't afford them. Today, you consider electronic publications cheaper and better than paper publications. It's the same way for schools and that's the point of the OLPC program.
Because the OLPC has lower power requirements, making it better suited to situations where electricity supplies are limited. If the lights dim when you turn on a few of those old clunkers (which will be fine, since they all have switched-mode power supplies and can run off anything from 160 to 300 volts, DC to 1kHz), or a substation fuse blows when you turn on more than one machine at once (those switched-mode supplies can draw tens of amps for a brief instant at power-up), then that might make you unp
More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:5, Insightful)
This guy needs to manage my Data Center. It is a well known thought (from a sysadmin point of view) that throwing hardware at an undefined problem may mask the issue for a time, but it does not 'usually' solve the problem.
High technology CAN be a liability if it isn't managed correctly.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Funny)
Sometimes you've got to have your priorities straight.
Parent
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if the technology is managed perfectly, most of the kids are still going to look at these laptops as new toys and expensive nightlights...
Parent
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:5, Informative)
I do think Thailand is aware of the benefits of technology. They are having quite the political upheaval, though, and this is probably closely related to the Southern militants [wikipedia.org]. The southern part is where all the violence around schools is happening. (This post [slashdot.org] links to the BBC [bbc.co.uk] and ABC [abc.net.au])
There is definitely a battle for the identity and control of Thailand. I think it's incredible how little blood has been shed in the recent coup. I hope that the government moves back toward democracy, but it looks like Thailand is becoming more of a Communist state.
Parent
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
(Metaphorically) killing off great opportunities for better education, and trying to reach some stage of technological autarchy, all from a man with a military background... sounds like a mix of the Khmer Rouge agenda with the North Korean Juche system, without all the suppression and genocide, of course...
No, I don't think that his goals will do his country any good.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I hope you don't mean to suggest that communism is the opposite of democracy, communism is totalitarianism, or similar nonsense.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
First of all, "communist government" is a funny phrase, because communism was originally defined as a state where everyone is equal and there is no government, making "communist government" a contradiction in terms. Secondly, the governments you refer to weren't communist. They may have been called that in the west, or in popular usage, but if you look at the official terminology, they would be called "people's republic", "soviet republic", etc. In practice, these governments may have been autocratic, aristocratic, sort of democratic, or totalitarian, but certainly not communist.
The larger point is that communism is not a system of government, but more an economic system. You can have a "communist" the-community-owns-everything-no-single-person-ow
Parent
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
The scary thing is the same is happening with "liberal", it's almost an insult to be called liberal these days.
As for NewSpeak, it's doubleplusgood!
Parent
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This semms to be the case only in the US. In Europe, there is a very wide range of very diverse views about communism in general, and about each of the ex-communist states in particular.
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Owning your own land and making your own living decentralizes
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What the GP is also saying is that other ideologies can be subjected to the same treatment as Communism. Orwell warned us against tota
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Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
You're being generous. A cynic might suggest that this guy is trading away the technological future of his country's children at the behest of a well heeled international corporation.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
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So, after a military Coup a major education project under way is canceled along with a reform of the countries IT policies, and teachers in the south of the country start to spontaneously grow bullet holes.
Call me crazy, but somehow I don't really think this new regime is honestly out to create the best education they can.
Relatively Expensive Solution (Score:2)
$500 is not expensive but also is not cheap. There are better uses for that money.
As well, how much can an elementary-school kid get out of a laptop besides playing some games and doing e-mail? Playing games and sending e-mail can be learned in a day. They do not require the kid to own a laptop. He can
Oh Well... (Score:2, Funny)
not an Open Source failure (Score:4, Interesting)
Hopefully, /.'ers and others won't look upon this as an
Open Source failure, it isn't. It's (in my opinion) more of a
triumph somewhere of sanity... Technology has it's place, but a
laptop for every child smacks of the program's hubris and less of
a sane approach to helping poor countries.
I think they show real insight when fearing little return on the effort because teachers are poorly trained. Heck, even in wealthy countries teachers consistently have no computer smarts (my sister is a teacher, she hasn't a clue!). Compound that with a techie-Linux platform (I love Linux, but for the mass public, with minimal background and training?) and this program was running off the rails from the beginning.
There are excellent examples of schools in the United States where huge investments in technology for schools showed no tangible gains in students' profieciencies and at the same time examples of poor schools shifting emphasis to basics, discipline, and community with strong academic results.
Technology for technology's sake is just that, but not much of a salve for third world economies, at least not by giving a laptop to every child. I think this is actually a positive development because it has (had) so many ways it could have gone wrong allowing companies like Microsoft down the road to point fingers at Open Source as the culprit, and if only Microsoft had been chosen to save the world.
(For the record, this whole OLPC effort would be just as much of a train wreck with Windows, just a whole heck of a lot more expensive.)
Re:not an Open Source failure - not a failure (Score:5, Insightful)
It hasn't even started yet. It may be a failure, but to declare it a failure is like declaring who has won the 2010 World Cup today.
The OLPC may go to more places than developing countries. There are a number of places that are doing a trial of the system.
With Libya's order going through they have enough to get serious volumes being made. Once they show that then other countries, including richer developed countries may be interested. OLPCs may work well as text book readers. How much does the average school system in a US spend on textbooks per student per year? Who can say now whether some of these uses will take off.
The OLPC may fail, but it hasn't failed yet and it is silly to describe it as having failed before it's even been tried.
Parent
Re:not an Open Source failure - not a failure (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't believe it? Go look for yourself. The OLPC FAQ page [laptop.org] brings us such disarmingly trite generalities as:
That's right! Little Juan, Choudary, and Byung-Sun need a "tool" with which to think -- and I thought it was called a "brain". No, they need a window into the world, and a way to learn learning through independent interaction and exploration! Never mind that all of that can be accomplished *without* a $100 laptop in the hands of each child. Want a window into the world? Get them a good library with a few current events publications, and a computer lab with a few internet connected computers. You can build a heck of a good public school library (or 2 or 3) for $50 million dollars
But wait -- there's more in the FAQ [laptop.org]!
Where to begin?? To compare a $100 dollar laptop with a pencil that literally costs pennies is ridiculous. And the final argument, that warm-fuzzy-hot-chocolate-lump-in-your-throat claim... "It's important that the kids OWN something to maintain through love... and care." Awwwww.... how can we say NO to that?! Once again, footballs, dolls, and books don't cost $100 per child.
Your final claim: Makes my mind boggle. By this same logic, anything that hasn't been tried, no matter how stupid, far-fetched, or wrong-headed, should be tried. After all, if it hasn't been tried, it's silly to predict that it will fail, right? Might as well just spend the 50 million dollars and see what happens!
50 million dollars (500,000 laptops * $100) is a LOT of money to gamble with in a developing nation. I'd much rather see them spend that money on projects that have been shown to have a significant positive impact on educational quality -- smaller class sizes; basic health care so that kids don't miss weeks of school; upgrading school facilities with good lights, good water, and a reasonable amount of climate control -- good roofs to keep the rain out, ventilation to keep things cooler in summer, heaters to keep things cooler in winter. Save the OLPC project until it's actually shown that a laptop in the hands of each child will benefit them, rather than wasting money, wasting time, and putting yet another cement block around the neck of developing countries.
Parent
Steel ones (Score:2)
Not that I necessarily disagree with him. If those schools are worried about their power bills, giving the kids laptops and high speed internet is NOT the solution. Maybe the cuts necessary to pay the power bills could have come from some other crazy scheme, though.
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Insightful)
More likely, he is canceling this because the last thing a military dictatorship wants is informed citizens.
Parent
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Insightful)
It occurs to me that one of the stories told about widespread internet use is that people would be able to do things like "look up how to fix their irrigation systems on the web". Well, I've been using the web since Mosaic 2.0, and I'm much less able to fix a truck, repair an irrigation system, care for a garden, or do a whole bunch of other things that I know a lot of other people who aren't using the net know how to do. If I want to learn how to fix a truck, I might use my laptop to find a school or a place to do it - but then I'm just replacing the yellow pages. I'm more likely to find someone in my own personal social network who has the skills I want to acquire, and hang out with them.
The one practical thing that net connectivity has given me is access to recipes for cooking that I didn't have before. If the OLPC enables children in the developing world to cook eggplant parmigiana, I guess that's a good thing, but it's probably a lot less ambitious than what the creators had in mind.
The early zeal of the project isn't even a matter of "having a hammer and seeing every problem as a nail," it's more like "having a cantaloupe and thinking it's a hammer, and then throwing your cantaloupe at vaguely nail-shaped kittens."
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
There are a few more:
But outside of that I guess you are right. I don't cook, so I can't say much about your recipe theory. I would only add news to the list, but that's hardly necessary, and all that matters will eventually propagate through traditional means anyway.
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Insightful)
It depends on the person.
Some people aren't into DIY, so they use the web to look for someone to buy from.
Some people are into DIY and use the web for things other than shopping.
In my case, some of the things I have used the web for are:
Probably not the things a person in a developing country might look for, but that is because I don't live in a developing country. It does demonstrate that the web is a useful reference library, and I contend that the web contains information that is useful to a person in a developing country, that they would otherwise miss out on.
For example I've heard of villagers using the web to monitor world prices for various crops they grow, placing them in a stronger bargaining position when the people they sell to try to understate prices.
I don't think there is any question that the developing world needs the Internet. The question is how to best get it to them. Many people seem to view the Internet as a luxury, which it is if used for entertainment or amusement. The flip side of the Internet is textbooks, meteorological reports, market prices and the like, which are necessities for anything but a subsistence life style. Maybe people in developed countries take these necessities for granted, so don't notice the Internet's role in providing them?
If not OLPC what then? Information can be distributed on paper but as the volume and timeliness of information picks up the Internet is cheaper. OLPC seems like a cute misnomer for "Internet without infrastructure".
Parent
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Informative)
It is not permitted to fail in a Thai school. So, the teachers either keep testing and testing until a pass is obtained, or they simply make the lowest grade a pass, and distribute the rest of the marks accordingly. I know, because I was forced to do this. The Thais need to focus on sham. And as far as I know, the Thai university system is not accredited.
In the provinces, things are the same, except not nearly as wired.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
No bravery. He cut projects of the PREVIOUS government. They had a coup a few months ago, the army appointed the current government. It's traditional to cut the previous administration's pork barrel projects to make room for your own.
That would have been a real coup (Score:2)
Cancellation is extreme (Score:4, Insightful)
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Good Decision (Score:2, Funny)
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Re: (Score:2)
A representative of the Junta will be happy to appoint your candidate as soon as they have assumed power.
And who said Juntas were all bad?
Poll says Thai citizens ... (Score:2)
There was no poll -- who is asking the citizens? It doesn't matter what a poll says or what the citizens want. Unless, of course, the generals decide it matters.
Makes sense (Score:2)
-matthew
Understandable... (Score:2)
Glad to see that rationalism is not dead yet (Score:4, Interesting)
High levels of government corruption in participating countries is not a coincidence either. Someone will make a lot of money on this, and you can bet it won't be teachers.
Re:Glad to see that rationalism is not dead yet (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Some contextual links deleted by the editors (Score:3, Informative)
The "junta" being referred to is the Council for National Security [wikipedia.org], a clique of the Thai army that seized power in the 19 September coup [wikipedia.org].
The Education Minister is Wijit Srisa-arn [wikipedia.org], a former Opposition member of parliament.
http://en.wikipedia/wiki/ [en.wikipedia]
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
With respect, I disagree: I don't feel that children in developing nations need a chance to learn about computers nearly as much as they need encouragement to dream of and plan for ways to improve their society using their ideas and their heritage.
Perhaps the "Great White Hunter" metaphor isn't the best choice, but no matter how it's expressed, the fact remains that computers are a product of, and therefore cursed by, the legacy of an industrial economy that wants people to buy things whether they need them
On the other hand.. (Score:2)
I'm disappointed, but this guy is 100% new AFAIK - it's actually too early to know what he'll do.
Re:Thinking style of a Developing Nation's Governm (Score:2)
Your experience does not translate. (Score:3, Insightful)
I didn't see my first computer until I was 11, didn't own a Pc until I was 13, and didn't own a PC with a GUI until I was 18. Yet here I am, a member of the "techno elite".
Your schools could afford textbooks and libraries. That's why most of your peers are literate. Those things don't work where you can't afford them. Today, you consider electronic publications cheaper and better than paper publications. It's the same way for schools and that's the point of the OLPC program.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)