At that price I'd expect buckling spring switches (like the old IBM Model M) or mechanical Alps switches (like the old Apple Extended Keyboard II). Although I think only Unicomp makes buckling spring keyboards anymore.
I'd be disappointed if keys that look so nice, just have a squishy feel to them like a cheap rubber-dome membrane Dell keyboard.
huh? The squishy feeling is a good thing(tm) Its called a quiet keyboard. I very much dislike the spring keyboards, esp if yo use them for data entry. With quiet keyboards its much easier to press the keys.
huh? The squishy feeling is a good thing(tm) Its called a quiet keyboard. I very much dislike the spring keyboards, esp if yo use them for data entry. With quiet keyboards its much easier to press the keys.
Although ultimately it comes down to personal preference, I think that the 'clicky' buckling-spring keys are actually easier to use and less fatiguing. Because there is immediate tactile and audible feedback when the key-switch is actuated, you don't have to press it as far down. When I use a 'soft touch' keyboard, I find that I hit the keys further and harder, because there's not that feedback; I slam each key all the way down instead of (with practice) only pushing each key down as far as is necessary.
The noise of the original IBM Model M's is definitely a downside; if you have to work around other people, I can see how it wouldn't win you many friends. In my opinion, the Apple Extended Keyboard II with the Altus switches is the best of both worlds. It's softer both in terms of pressure and sound than the IBM, but it's not as 'mushy' as a soft-touch (silicone dome).
I get ~130WPM gross, ~115 WPM net on that test. Your 50wpm may seem fast by normal standards, but it's glacially slow by "slashdot" (programmer) standards. Programmers need to type in dozens of lines of code to express a single idea sometimes, and if you do that every day for a few years it really improves your typing speed (and accuracy). My only contribution to this discussion is the best keyboard is the keyboard that you're used to, and it's as simple as that. If you are used to that annoying clicky fe
Programming ability depends on typing speed about as much as IQ depends on how quickly you write or mathematical ability depends on how quickly you can do arithmetic (that is, the relation is very slight). A programmer who can express the same idea with less code doesn't have to type as much, after all.
(I type in the range of 80-110 WPM at 90% accuracy, before this becomes an attack on my typing as well:) )
the best keyboard is the keyboard that you're used to
Uhm, no. That'd be "data-entry monkeys". The average programmer productivity is not dependant on typing-speed at all, and less so the more challenging the project is. The trick in programming ain't typing quickly, but typing the *correct* stuff.
Brooks in his Mythical Man Month has a good discussion of programmer-productivity in a large project. Average programmer-output is something like 100 lines of code a *day*.
If you're hammering out massive amounts of trivial code where the limiting factor is your t
Yes, that happened to me once, when I really needed to use VBA instead of Perl...
Hmm, that gives me an idea for a special Perl keyboard, with all the punctuation marks present on the home row, and the letters relegated to the keypad and other 'peripheral' locations....;^)
My statement was simply that Programmers, on average, type faster then the general populace. I stand by this statement, but it is a one-way implication (and not at all a correlation). So while being a programmer implies a faster average typing speed, I am in full agreement with you that having a faster average typing speed implies nothing (and least of all programming ability, it might just mean you spent months blabbing on IM to your buddies).
To all those people who are saying use a better language, you're
This type of keyboard has little to do with typing, and more to do with keyboard shortcuts and custmisablity.
As an example of how useful a KB like this is for multimedia developers, have a look at these keyboards and accessoris [logickeyboard.com]; they're an intuitive but sometimes expensive way to have your shortcuts laid out in front of you for just one application. With a keyboard like the Optimus, users can apply schemes that change between apps, or that even change when you hold down the CTRL, CTRL-ALT, or CTRL-ALT-SH
Where exactly do you see a place for your contextual list of commands that start with CTRL on this interface [chrisdidthis.com].
This was my interface just before I checked my mail. I'm running at 1680*1050 on a 24" Dell and I barely, barely have room for everything (I'd be running at 1080p but my video card hasn't got a big enough frame buffer).
Keyboard shortcuts and the means to remember (or quickly refrence) them are a fact of life, and solve numerous interface problems. You'd be making the same type of baseless argu
With the old IBM keyboards. There seems to be this kind of reverence for them on/. and I don't understand why. I used to have one (had an IBM desktop). It was noisy and hard to press the keys. I much prefer my current MS keyboard which has easy, quiet keys. The only potential argument I've heard for the old keyboards is durability. Ok, maybe so, but what kind of stress do you subject them to that makes them break? I have, thus far, never managed to wear out a key on a keyboard. I use the hell out of my computer too, it's pretty much all I do with my time.
So what's the deal with the old IBM keyboards? Is it just some kind of geek-tough guy thing? "Back in my day our keyboards could cause hearing damage and by god we liked it!" I just don't understand what the problem with modern, soft, quiet keyboards is. They don't seem to have problems with breaking even under heavy use, so what's up?
As a pianist I enjoy the feel of the buckling spring keyboards, although I haven't owned one in years. I might compare it to the difference between a classic piano and a electronic substitue: there's an intricate tactical sensation when playing on an acoustic piano due to the mechanics. But that may be going to far on drawing a parallel. I also find that I can't type as fast with some of the squishy quiet keyboards. There is an exact point at which the key is pressed that I can recognize with the old clicky
Looks like the keyboard is force on an angle. Normally you're able to adjust the height of the keyboard. I generally like my keyboard as flat as possible and my desk/chair set to the right height so my wrists are in a comfortable and flat position instead of being tilted up. Too bad, looks like the keyboard has promise.
I agree. That said, I love my Microsoft ergonomic keyboard with the 9 degree reverse tilt.
Also, why does every fucking keyboard manufacturer in the world feel that they have to screw around with the enter key at every opportunity? You'd think they'd learn that people want a rectangular enter key, with a rectangular backslash/pipe key above it and a rectangular, full-width backspace key above that.
Speak for yourself, over here in the UK we have the vertical 2 row (upside down L) enter key. I think there should be various layouts to match the different standards around the world.
Overall changes are one thing (ala Quake), but what I want is to have the display change when I press the CTRL or ALT key.
So that CTRL changes the C key display to COPY and so on. Including the function and specialty keys (arrows, PrtSc).
And an editor that allows me to customize what the keys show, so when I am programming I can set up the display to match my key mapping preferences. With smart focus management to whatever program is in the foreground.
And an editor that allows me to customize what the keys show, so when I am programming I can set up the display to match my key mapping preferences. With smart focus management to whatever program is in the foreground.
You shouldn't need an editor for this. Rather they should release a good API, so that is it is easy for every program to tell the keyboard what to display when that program is in focus. Since your IDE already knows your keymaps, you shouldn't have to tell the keyboard again (imagine what a mess).
This is beautiful technology, but as with so many other things, the difficulty will be in getting programs to support it.
Which is a great idea for grandma, who doesn't know how to use a computer, but really isn't that much of an advantage to an advanced computer user who never looks at their keyboard anyway. Anybody who users a computer more than 2 hours a day, should probably learn the key shortcuts and make their life easier. People depend way too much on the mouse, which is understandable in a GUI environment, but even then, using the keyboard is much faster. I could see this being an advantage with VS.Net, and it showi
what I want is to have the display change when I press the CTRL or ALT key.
It doesn't do this? I thought that's the whole point of this keyboard and the reason why I found it cool. I even had kind of assumed it would include (or at least have planned) a way to make this controllable by the application that has focus, so that, for example, vim or Gimp could display their shortcuts. Not that would be helpful.
As a hobbyist game programmer, I immediately began to think about what games you could write for the keyboard itself. My general idea is that you could make all the keys act as one big (low-res) screen.
You could have a Whack-a-Mole type game, where a mole would display on the keys and you'd have to whack him by pressing one of the keys the mole occupies.
Or you could make a Snake clone where you would maneuver the snake by tapping on the direction the snake would go.
Oddly enough I like my Microsoft Internet keyboard. The keys don't feel as cheap as other keyboards I have used and when it gets dirty it seems to survive complete submersion in water. Although I admit I have not tried mac keyboards, so I don't know what I am missing.
I suspect that this won't be used a lot on home computer systems. Where it may be used a lot is in things like automotive dashboards and possibly non-critical systems on aircraft where space is at a premium and touch screens work poorly if you're wearing gloves and/or want some tactile feedback.
That is exactly what I was thinking when I just saw their upravlator [artlebedev.com]. That thing, although looking unconventional at first, might be a bigger succes than their oled keyboard, especially as it can have direct applications in industries.
This is the sort of thing that many users would love to get when the pricepoint is right. Both for easy of use (wouldn't you love a keyboard that could change languages at a single click?) and for increased productivity (that photoshop overlay looked pretty slick).
$400 is over my budget. When it hits $100 it's mine.:-)
After looking at the site, the Optimus mini three (three keys) runs for $160USD. I do not see how they can sell 103 keys for $400, when they are selling 3 for $160. I know that the price will get cheaper for the keyboard (still has only one usb controller), but at the 3 for $160 rate, the keyboard with 103 keys would run ~$5493USD. I seriously doubt it will be cheaper than a nice cell phone.
I don't know about your credit card, but when I charge something, they require something a bit more concrete than "less than the price of a good cell phone".
Since I need to exchange keyboard setups (from Spanish (Spain setup) to English to Japanese and others at times, I can see usefulness in this thing. Looks flashy too, although looks like it's rather expensive. I wonder if it works in Linux, too?
Now for the keyboard they've dropped OLED, dropped the extra function keys and moved back to LCD meaning that you'll need an external power brick to power it.
Nearly a year and a half after some spiffy 3D rendered pics, they've almost got a product out that vaguely resembles the original idea. In the meantime, the product has become so infamous that the little 3-button teaser product needed a note specifically saying it wasn't vapourware when ThinkGeek opened up pre-orders. I think they peaked too soon.
Meanwhile, the Ideazon Zboard (a range of key sets that include highly customised key shapes) and the Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard (LCD display built into keyboard) have been in the market for ages. And they're affordable.
OMG! They "destroyed it" by supporting the keyboard design the overwhelming majority of people are used to instead of supporting a layout that only two companies feel is important.
Those bastards.
What key switching tech does it use? (Score:5, Interesting)
At that price I'd expect buckling spring switches (like the old IBM Model M) or mechanical Alps switches (like the old Apple Extended Keyboard II). Although I think only Unicomp makes buckling spring keyboards anymore.
I'd be disappointed if keys that look so nice, just have a squishy feel to them like a cheap rubber-dome membrane Dell keyboard.
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Re:What key switching tech does it use? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
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Buckling springs have ergonomic advantages. (Score:4, Insightful)
Although ultimately it comes down to personal preference, I think that the 'clicky' buckling-spring keys are actually easier to use and less fatiguing. Because there is immediate tactile and audible feedback when the key-switch is actuated, you don't have to press it as far down. When I use a 'soft touch' keyboard, I find that I hit the keys further and harder, because there's not that feedback; I slam each key all the way down instead of (with practice) only pushing each key down as far as is necessary.
The noise of the original IBM Model M's is definitely a downside; if you have to work around other people, I can see how it wouldn't win you many friends. In my opinion, the Apple Extended Keyboard II with the Altus switches is the best of both worlds. It's softer both in terms of pressure and sound than the IBM, but it's not as 'mushy' as a soft-touch (silicone dome).
Parent
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You must type rather slowly...
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My only contribution to this discussion is the best keyboard is the keyboard that you're used to, and it's as simple as that. If you are used to that annoying clicky fe
dozens of lines? (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, that happened to me once, when I really needed to use VBA instead of Perl...
Parent
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Programming ability depends on typing speed about as much as IQ depends on how quickly you write or mathematical ability depends on how quickly you can do arithmetic (that is, the relation is very slight). A programmer who can express the same idea with less code doesn't have to type as much, after all.
(I type in the range of 80-110 WPM at 90% accuracy, before this becomes an attack on my typing as well :) )
Agreed!
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Brooks in his Mythical Man Month has a good discussion of programmer-productivity in a large project. Average programmer-output is something like 100 lines of code a *day*.
If you're hammering out massive amounts of trivial code where the limiting factor is your t
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Hmm, that gives me an idea for a special Perl keyboard, with all the punctuation marks present on the home row, and the letters relegated to the keypad and other 'peripheral' locations....
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So while being a programmer implies a faster average typing speed, I am in full agreement with you that having a faster average typing speed implies nothing (and least of all programming ability, it might just mean you spent months blabbing on IM to your buddies).
To all those people who are saying use a better language, you're
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
6200 lines/year * 10 words/line = 62000 words/year
62000 words/year / 1080 hours/year = 57 words/hour
57 words/hour / 60 mins/hour = 1 wpm
Apparently, considering no coder types at anywhere near 1 wpm, writing code is bottlenecked by thinking, not typing.
E-Paper keys? (Score:3, Insightful)
But if they used e-paper for each key, couldn't this be used in laptops and other low-power devices?
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As an example of how useful a KB like this is for multimedia developers, have a look at these keyboards and accessoris [logickeyboard.com]; they're an intuitive but sometimes expensive way to have your shortcuts laid out in front of you for just one application. With a keyboard like the Optimus, users can apply schemes that change between apps, or that even change when you hold down the CTRL, CTRL-ALT, or CTRL-ALT-SH
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This was my interface just before I checked my mail. I'm running at 1680*1050 on a 24" Dell and I barely, barely have room for everything (I'd be running at 1080p but my video card hasn't got a big enough frame buffer).
Keyboard shortcuts and the means to remember (or quickly refrence) them are a fact of life, and solve numerous interface problems. You'd be making the same type of baseless argu
I've never really understood the obsession (Score:5, Interesting)
So what's the deal with the old IBM keyboards? Is it just some kind of geek-tough guy thing? "Back in my day our keyboards could cause hearing damage and by god we liked it!" I just don't understand what the problem with modern, soft, quiet keyboards is. They don't seem to have problems with breaking even under heavy use, so what's up?
Parent
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Forced tilt? (Score:3, Interesting)
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Re:Forced tilt? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Forced tilt? (Score:5, Funny)
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Also, why does every fucking keyboard manufacturer in the world feel that they have to screw around with the enter key at every opportunity? You'd think they'd learn that people want a rectangular enter key, with a rectangular backslash/pipe key above it and a rectangular, full-width backspace key above that.
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Functionality Display (Score:5, Interesting)
So that CTRL changes the C key display to COPY and so on. Including the function and specialty keys (arrows, PrtSc).
And an editor that allows me to customize what the keys show, so when I am programming I can set up the display to match my key mapping preferences. With smart focus management to whatever program is in the foreground.
Re:Functionality Display (Score:5, Interesting)
You shouldn't need an editor for this. Rather they should release a good API, so that is it is easy for every program to tell the keyboard what to display when that program is in focus. Since your IDE already knows your keymaps, you shouldn't have to tell the keyboard again (imagine what a mess).
This is beautiful technology, but as with so many other things, the difficulty will be in getting programs to support it.
Parent
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It doesn't do this? I thought that's the whole point of this keyboard and the reason why I found it cool. I even had kind of assumed it would include (or at least have planned) a way to make this controllable by the application that has focus, so that, for example, vim or Gimp could display their shortcuts. Not that would be helpful.
Re:Functionality Display (Score:5, Interesting)
You could have a Whack-a-Mole type game, where a mole would display on the keys and you'd have to whack him by pressing one of the keys the mole occupies.
Or you could make a Snake clone where you would maneuver the snake by tapping on the direction the snake would go.
Or some kind of piano game, á la Guitar Hero.
Parent
Pre-orders start December 12? (Score:2)
Keybords (Score:2)
I really like the keyboard on my MacBook, I wish I could find one like it for my PC's
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Best use for this... (Score:4, Insightful)
-b.
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Can't wait for it to hit mainstream. (Score:2)
$400 is over my budget. When it hits $100 it's mine.
Under $400? (Score:2, Interesting)
Minor question - How much? (Score:4, Insightful)
nice eye candy (Score:2)
I like the look, I like the idea... I've waited a long to see these be available... but, around $400???
At that kind of expense, it better have a 100G drive, about 512M memory, and run Linux. (and for an extra $100 - $200, Windows XP...)
I know it's new, I know price points start high, I'll wait.
NB: This keyboard does not use OLED. (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah but... (Score:2)
No, really
You're not supposed to look at the keyboard (Score:2)
You're not supposed to look at the keyboard. It slows down your typing.
Learn to type on a blank keyboard [daskeyboard.com].
Interesting. (Score:2, Interesting)
I wonder if it works in Linux, too?
Optimus Prime? (Score:5, Interesting)
Reminds me of an old joke... (Score:5, Funny)
zes, how did zou know?
BBH
No scaling up (Score:3, Interesting)
Now for the keyboard they've dropped OLED, dropped the extra function keys and moved back to LCD meaning that you'll need an external power brick to power it.
Marketing *way* too early (Score:3, Insightful)
Meanwhile, the Ideazon Zboard (a range of key sets that include highly customised key shapes) and the Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard (LCD display built into keyboard) have been in the market for ages. And they're affordable.
Touch Typists (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Staggered columns versus matrix keyboards (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent