snafu109 writes "Since the laptop battery recalls initiated by Dell, Apple, IBM/Lenovo, Toshiba & Fujitsu, some may have wondered whether the entire lot should be recalled. Well, over at MarketWatch, a new article reports just that. 'Sony said Thursday it will initiate a global replacement program for certain battery packs that use its lithium-ion cells in notebook computers in order to address concerns related to recent over-heating incidents.' In related news, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission has released some tips on how to lower the risk of your laptop batteries exploding, no matter who the manufacturer."
When looking at energy efficiency of power products, it's important to include the costs of manufacturing, maintenance and disposal. These true costs are what kills many power techs, like nuclear, most PV solar, and, say, slave boat rowers. I wonder how much energy will be spent per battery, including roundtrip airfreight fuel and your reading this message that I write, before the battery's current lifecycle is over.
Of course those hidden costs aren't part of our decisions when we buy these devices to stay r
Aluminum frame.. no brainer.. (scrap dealers will pay you $~0.50lb).. Clear Glass. Another no brainer.. Resin backing. (Add some solvent and make it into another PV panel.) Remaining Silicon and Copper.. Easily recycled.
As for True Costs.. tack in the costs of GW..
and all the Fossil fuel solutions fly right out the window.
Just for grins..
What percentage of earth orbiting satellites are powered by anything but PV?
What percentage of earth orbiting satellites are powered by anything but PV?
I hope you're not seriously implying that the relative performance and cost characteristics of PV in orbit, where the cost per kg of payload at launch is astronomical (har!), the environment they operate in varies in temperature by hundreds of degrees, available sunlight is completely unfiltered by atmosphere, and there is zero chance of replacing spent fuel (see point 1)somehow translates meaningfully to their performance character
These materials are recyclable, which is certainly a better setup than before. But my point is the energy costs of recycling. How much energy is consumed in remanufacturing PV into a second duty cycle? Per energy produced in its prior cycle? Plus original manufacture and other maintenance? This is not a rhetorical question - I've spent dozens of hours, maybe hundreds, over the past 5-10 years trying to get those numbers for my own construction plans. A more rhetorical question is the energy budget of the PV
That solvent for your resin isn't exactly Perrier, so you have to figure out something to do with that. Semiconductor fabrication isn't exactly made from angel farts, either. Depending on how you do the math, PV can be pretty costly. "What percentage of earth orbiting satellites are powered by anything but PV?"
When you don't have to worry about an atmosphere, or mass production, and you can't really refuel the thing, your solution set changes. PV is a really good alternative for satellites. It's less ide
To be fair though, you have to look at it as an opportune expense. The energy would be spent in any case, but is this the most efficient use or process? Like you samples, it takes a lot of energy/emissions to create a solar array. That 'wasted' energy reduces the total life cycle energy performance of solar arrays. But is the final performance better or worse than a coal burning alternative? And depending on what life cycle? (Energy, longevity, emissions, cost, prof fit, etc...)
Favorite Quote from the Consumer Products Safety Comission: "Computer batteries can get hot during normal use. Do not use your computer on your lap."
Not much good as a LAPtop, then.
No, don't use it on your lap, unless you want to suffer the fate of this man [theregister.co.uk], who burned a... er... sensitive part of his anatomy.
If the battery bursts into flames, you definitely don't want it on your lap.
I like the T42 from IBM (I guess now Lenovo makes them). They vent the heat out the side through a little air vent so you can have it in your lap and it doesn't get hot. I know there is still the danger of the battery exploding, but it is a nice touch, plus it makes for a great handwarmer in the winter.
most newer laptops have side vents. the batteries still get warm though and if you put the laptop on a soft surface (like a bed or couch), the laptop usually sinks in far enough to restrict the airflow.
i use my HP laptop on my lap all the time, but i make sure that the vent is hanging off the side of my leg, keeping the warmest part of it off of me and allowing air to flow.
In unrelated news, Sony announced today a movie rental program featuring their latest Digital Rights Management scheme. Each movie cartridge features an embedded power and monitoring system; if any attempts are made to copy the movie or circumvent the protection, the movie implodes to ensure that the copyright holder's rights are maintained.
As part of their environmental initiative, Sony has also announced that they secured a source of recycled power supplies and detonation units for this new program.
It looks to me like they are trying to save face here.. though i don't think it will help much.. Sony just keeps digging a bigger hole each way you look... I have to wonder if the exec's arn't stipping the company apart from the inside
Sony announced today that, as part of their Global Replacement Program, they will be replacing the entire globe. "Yes, we screwed up so badly, that it is cheaper to leave and start a new planet than to fix everything that Sony has done wrong," said a Sony representative. Among Sony's past transgressions include rootkit-enabled laptop batteries, exploding CDs, and firing Nellie McKay. "On our new planet, we will build a Sonyful utopia, a planet by Sony, for Sony forever. A DRMed paradise for all to behold."
PS3 fiasco
Rootkit
Laptop batteries
BluRay
RIAA/MPAA support
Sony is looking more and more like a company that is poorly led and one that maybe can't be trusted. These are all (so far) huge public relation disasters. I think they need to rethink their strategy, in the meantime, I will be politely avoiding their products.
It's not just that. The name "Sony" once meant quality. Now it seems they can't do anything right. I'd stay away from Sony products simply because it seems they break or explode frequently.;)
Not only do they have to do a full recall, but it gets dragged out through months of bad press. People will be calling their relatives asking if their laptops have Sony batteries in them. Do you think the laptop companies are going to blame anyone but Sony?
Sony should have seen this coming and bit the bullet at that point. This has turned into a PR disaster. Most people don't understand the concept of a root kit, but they do understand "can't bring laptop on a plane, because it might bring the plane down" (Virgin Atlantic did ban several brands of laptops because of this issue) or "laptop bursts into flame, everybody blames Sony". It's a very simple concept and everybody can understand it. When technology doesn't work properly or worse becomes a hazard, people become angry and scared. And the last thing a company wants is to have its name associated with fear and pain.
Check E-bay in a few months, as well as all the discount suspiciously-low-price stores through Yahoo. There are going to be a helluva lot of cheap laptop batteries for sale in "as is" condition....
Since this is a recall, they have to take back the bad batch of batteries and replace them with new ones.
And when Sony is left with hundreds of thousand of bad batteries on their hands, don't you think someone somewhere will figure out how to grab a couple of them and sell them? I doubt all those batteries will be destroyed/recycled within months or even years.
Well, you could say the same about anything that Sony has on their stock. Do you also see a couple of brand new Sony vaio computers for sale? Do you hear a lot about their stocks being stolen?
There are tens of millions of portable computers in use. The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) is aware of at least 47 incidents involving smoke or fire associated with notebook computers, from January 2001 through August 2006.
So, taking a low-ball figure of 20 million for total notebooks in use from 1/01 thorugh 8/06, that's still just over 2 incidents per million notebooks... I wonder how many incidents there would be per million notebook-use-hours.
To contrast, the rail system in the US was very pround when, in 1993, they were able to reduce reportable safety incidents below 3.0 per million train miles.
What I'm trying to say is that people are getting very worked up over a not-very-big deal (not that the goal shouldn't be 0 incidents per million hours) -- and considering the minor harm that such fires are likely to cause, is it worth the economic and financial impact of these recalls?
* Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Sony Batteries.
* Caution: Sony Batteries may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.
* Sony Batteries Contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
* Do not use Sony Batteries on concrete.
Discontinue use of Sony Batteries if any of the following occurs:
* Itching
* Vertigo
* Dizziness
* Tingling in extremities
* Loss of balance or coordination
* Slurred speech
* Temporary blindness
* Profuse sweating
* Heart palpitations
If Sony Batteries begin to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.
Sony Batteries may stick to certain types of skin.
When not in use, Sony Batteries should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration...
Failure to do so relieves the makers of Sony Batteries, Sony Corporation, of any and all liability.
Ingredients of Sony Batteries include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.
Sony Batteries have been shipped to our troops in Afghanistan and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq.
My Dell was one of the laptops with the recalled battery, so I promptly sent for a replacement. Mind you, I never had any problems with the battery at all - the computer ran cool as a cucumber (And never exploded). Of course, why would I turn down the chance for a new batter, if for no other reason than it should be better at holding a charge then my 18 month old one. Got my new battery in the mail last week, and guess what? The darn thing runs so hot, even when the laptop is running of of A/C power, that I'm practially burning my left palm everytime I use it. Is it too late to get my old battery back?
Did you actually get a new battery? Did you check the date of manufacture? I have a suspicion that somewhere in the bowels of Sony that there's a little man who shuffles 99% of the at-risk batteries from an In pile to an Out pile. On the bright side, someone who had a hot battery is no doubt enjoying a cool lap thanks to yours now.
Jesus! The article mentions a guy whose laptop started smoking as he boarded a plane.
The safety of Lenovo's batteries was called into question in mid-September after an IBM ThinkPad caught fire at the Los Angeles International Airport. A passenger who had charged his laptop at the airport boarded his plane and then realized his computer bag was smoking. He ran off the plane onto the jetway, and the overheated notebook computer began throwing off sparks, Lenovo said.
Good thing there wasn't a trigger happy air marshall there! If only he had some water to put out the... oh, wait. If I were this guy I'd be thankful to be alive.
As always, should you or any of your I. M. Force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This notebook will self destruct in 10 seconds...
Damn Mr. Phelps! At least read your messages in private!
Just in case some of you are wondering why these batteries explode. A scientific summary would be: They become overcharged.
And if you are wondering how overcharging can create an explosion. Another scientific summary would be: If you put more energy into an environment which cannot handle it. It becomes unstable.
If you are wondering why an environment becomes unstable when too much energy is involved: It comes down to atomic science.
Wondering why it comes down to atomic science? You might want to think about going back to school, we need more scientific minds like you.
.... And when I get my new battery, will it be made by Sony or someone else? If it's made by Sony, you'll excuse me if I am a bit gunshy about using it.
Thanks to the story here yesterday on the IBM/Lenovo battery recall, I went to the website [ibm.com] and checked my battery on my T43. Whaddya know, it's one that's part of the recall. I called and they transferred me to a call center in Atlanta and I was on hold for about 10 minutes. I should have my replacement within 4 weeks. Of course they said not to use it anymore - i.e. just use AC power (that's alternating current, not anonymous coward power!) and I know they have to say that but I'm going to keep using the
It is interesting that everyone is blaming Sony and no one talks about Toshiba here. Back when Apple recalled batteries, quite a few people in this forum bitched about Apple. Now that Apple, Dell, Lenovo, and Toshiba have recalled batteries, people do realize who's fault it is. If I had been Sony, I would have asked the manufacturers to recall batteries all at the same time. Instead, they are getting bad press four times in a row as all the reputable manufacturers recall their batteries. What a PR disaster!
No, there were plans to locate the ITER in Japan, but they ended up deciding to put in France.
Of course, there's a big difference between mass producing millions of a thing as cheaply as possible using laborers working for a dollar a day, and building a huge one-of-a-kind project with a huge budget and twenty year time frame using hundreds of physicists and engineers.
At least they are recyclable (Score:3, Insightful)
-Rick
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I wonder how much energy will be spent per battery, including roundtrip airfreight fuel and your reading this message that I write, before the battery's current lifecycle is over.
Of course those hidden costs aren't part of our decisions when we buy these devices to stay r
Re: (Score:2)
Aluminum frame.. no brainer.. (scrap dealers will pay you $~0.50lb)..
Clear Glass. Another no brainer..
Resin backing. (Add some solvent and make it into another PV panel.)
Remaining Silicon and Copper.. Easily recycled.
As for True Costs.. tack in the costs of GW..
and all the Fossil fuel solutions fly right out the window.
Just for grins..
What percentage of earth orbiting satellites are powered by anything but PV?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I hope you're not seriously implying that the relative performance and cost characteristics of PV in orbit, where the cost per kg of payload at launch is astronomical (har!), the environment they operate in varies in temperature by hundreds of degrees, available sunlight is completely unfiltered by atmosphere, and there is zero chance of replacing spent fuel (see point 1)somehow translates meaningfully to their performance character
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I do believe the chance is decidly non-zero.
Very very small, maybe, but still greater than zero none the less.
-nB
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A more rhetorical question is the energy budget of the PV
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
"What percentage of earth orbiting satellites are powered by anything but PV?"
When you don't have to worry about an atmosphere, or mass production, and you can't really refuel the thing, your solution set changes. PV is a really good alternative for satellites. It's less ide
Re: (Score:2)
Slightly less than there used to be [wikipedia.org].
to be fair... (Score:2)
Like you samples, it takes a lot of energy/emissions to create a solar array. That 'wasted' energy reduces the total life cycle energy performance of solar arrays. But is the final performance better or worse than a coal burning alternative? And depending on what life cycle? (Energy, longevity, emissions, cost, prof fit, etc...)
It takes a lot of energy to cr
quote (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:quote (Score:4, Informative)
If the battery bursts into flames, you definitely don't want it on your lap.
Parent
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i use my HP laptop on my lap all the time, but i make sure that the vent is hanging off the side of my leg, keeping the warmest part of it off of me and allowing air to flow.
I sense a conspiracy! (Score:5, Funny)
Today: Rootkits, and DRM
Tomorrow: Holding the world hostage with boiling lithium..
eeek...
Re:I sense a conspiracy! (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
As part of their environmental initiative, Sony has also announced that they secured a source of recycled power supplies and detonation units for this new program.
why (Score:3, Interesting)
Sony just keeps digging a bigger hole each way you look... I have to wonder if the exec's arn't stipping the company apart from the inside
Re:why (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Further Details... (Score:5, Funny)
More tips to prevent explosion! (Score:5, Funny)
OK, I'll say it (Score:4, Insightful)
Rootkit
Laptop batteries
BluRay
RIAA/MPAA support
Sony is looking more and more like a company that is poorly led and one that maybe can't be trusted. These are all (so far) huge public relation disasters. I think they need to rethink their strategy, in the meantime, I will be politely avoiding their products.
You left out a few: (Score:2)
Universal Media Disk
PSP "White is Coming" ad campaign
Lack of PSP title support
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Confused? Worried? (Score:4, Interesting)
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From what I've read, it appears that Sony puts more battery charging safeguards into to their branded notebooks than Dell, Apple, etc do?
Ron
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The worst way for this to happen to Sony (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony should have seen this coming and bit the bullet at that point. This has turned into a PR disaster. Most people don't understand the concept of a root kit, but they do understand "can't bring laptop on a plane, because it might bring the plane down" (Virgin Atlantic did ban several brands of laptops because of this issue) or "laptop bursts into flame, everybody blames Sony". It's a very simple concept and everybody can understand it. When technology doesn't work properly or worse becomes a hazard, people become angry and scared. And the last thing a company wants is to have its name associated with fear and pain.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Check e-bay in a few months (Score:2)
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And when Sony is left with hundreds of thousand of bad batteries on their hands, don't you think someone somewhere will figure out how to grab a couple of them and sell them? I doubt all those batteries will be destroyed/recycled within months or even years.
Re: (Score:2)
low incidence (Score:5, Insightful)
So, taking a low-ball figure of 20 million for total notebooks in use from 1/01 thorugh 8/06, that's still just over 2 incidents per million notebooks... I wonder how many incidents there would be per million notebook-use-hours.
To contrast, the rail system in the US was very pround when, in 1993, they were able to reduce reportable safety incidents below 3.0 per million train miles.
What I'm trying to say is that people are getting very worked up over a not-very-big deal (not that the goal shouldn't be 0 incidents per million hours) -- and considering the minor harm that such fires are likely to cause, is it worth the economic and financial impact of these recalls?
Let's turn the question around... (Score:2)
Sony Batteries (Score:3, Funny)
Sony Batteries
-only $14.95-
* Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Sony Batteries.
* Caution: Sony Batteries may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.
* Sony Batteries Contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
* Do not use Sony Batteries on concrete.
Discontinue use of Sony Batteries if any of the following occurs:
* Itching
* Vertigo
* Dizziness
* Tingling in extremities
* Loss of balance or coordination
* Slurred speech
* Temporary blindness
* Profuse sweating
* Heart palpitations
If Sony Batteries begin to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.
Sony Batteries may stick to certain types of skin.
When not in use, Sony Batteries should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration...
Failure to do so relieves the makers of Sony Batteries, Sony Corporation, of any and all liability.
Ingredients of Sony Batteries include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.
Sony Batteries have been shipped to our troops in Afghanistan and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq.
Do not taunt Sony Batteries.
Sony Batteries come with a lifetime guarantee.
Sony Batteries
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!
New batteries better? (Score:3, Interesting)
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Smoking bag in an airport! (Score:3, Insightful)
Good thing there wasn't a trigger happy air marshall there! If only he had some water to put out the... oh, wait. If I were this guy I'd be thankful to be alive.
Re: (Score:2)
Damn Mr. Phelps! At least read your messages in private!
Why do the explode? (Score:3, Interesting)
And if you are wondering how overcharging can create an explosion. Another scientific summary would be: If you put more energy into an environment which cannot handle it. It becomes unstable.
If you are wondering why an environment becomes unstable when too much energy is involved: It comes down to atomic science.
Wondering why it comes down to atomic science? You might want to think about going back to school, we need more scientific minds like you.
PS: slashdot already handles this (Score:2)
$string =~ s/\r\n/####/isg;
$string =~s/\n/####/isg; #Where #### is the HTML br tag. Am I missing something?
Hey pizpot, use the "Plain Old Text" input type and it will already do this for you. It also allows HTML tags in the "Plain Old Text" posting format.
(Posted with Plain Old Text)
Sony Xplod (Score:3, Funny)
Okay... Sony has recalled a bunch of batteries... (Score:2)
Where? (Score:2)
Thanks Slashdot (Score:2)
Check your battery manufacturer in Linux (Score:4, Informative)
cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0
Everyone blames Sony (Score:2, Insightful)
If I had been Sony, I would have asked the manufacturers to recall batteries all at the same time. Instead, they are getting bad press four times in a row as all the reputable manufacturers recall their batteries. What a PR disaster!
I
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Of course, there's a big difference between mass producing millions of a thing as cheaply as possible using laborers working for a dollar a day, and building a huge one-of-a-kind project with a huge budget and twenty year time frame using hundreds of physicists and engineers.