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Comments: 134 +-   ATI, NVIDIA Launch New Chipsets for Socket AM2 on Tuesday May 23 2006, @11:30AM

Posted by Zonk on Tuesday May 23 2006, @11:30AM
from the it's-called-synergy-folks dept.
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theraindog writes "The web is swirling with reviews of AMD's new Socket AM2 processors, but they're not the only new chips launching today. ATI and NVIDIA have both introduced new core logic to accompany Socket AM2, and The Tech Report has a comprehensive comparison of the new chipsets. ATI's CrossFire Xpress 3200 and NVIDIA's new nForce 590 SLI are run through an exhaustive suite of application, peripheral, and power consumption tests with surprising results. The nForce 590 SLI definitely has the edge when it comes to the sheer number of integrated peripherals and extra features, but the CrossFire Xpress 3200's performance is competitive, and its leaner approach pays big power consumption dividends. It looks like ATI may finally have a credible alternative to NVIDIA's domination of the Athlon 64 chipset market."
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ATI, NVIDIA Launch New Chipsets for Socket AM2 50 Comments More /

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  • Take your pick (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BadAnalogyGuy (945258) <BadAnalogyGuy@gmail.com> on Tuesday May 23 2006, @11:34AM (#15387866)
    On the one hand, you've got Ferrari with its sleek lines and power-packed drivetrain. On the other you've got a McLaren with its race course-styled lines and race track pedigree.

    Which one you spend your money on is up to you and the aesthetics you find more pleasing.

    As for me, I'll stick with my Toyota Corolla and the 42mpg that it gets.
    • I will take the delorean, cause if your gonna build a time machine into a car, why not do it with some style.
    • Well,... its more like mainboard which I would be proud to show in my computer and another Barbie gay model which I would be embarassed to show. But anyway, ATI owners, there are still non-transparent cases out so you can relax.

      Is ATI concentrating on usual Barbie collectors with this colors or what?
        • I've got a 2006 Civic and the mileage is really great, as long as you drive like someone who's trying to save gas. I can go 500+ miles on one fill up, which is about 38 MPG. Plus it's very comfortable. The stereo is nice, the sliding sunroof is a great feature, and the engine is so quiet. That really helps your ninja attacks.
          • Just about every station I pass has both gasoline and diesel fuel. Only the Casey's do not have diesel. About half a dozen stations in town even have E85 ethanol fuel, but that isn't very common outside of the rural or butting-up-against-rural-areas of the Midwest. One even has propane, but that's REALLY uncommon.
        • Too bad it's diesel. VW could use some style in its lineup too. Other than the Beetle these are pretty bland cars. And they admit it too with their "low smug emissions" commercials. It's just a marketing tool to push blandly styled cars.
        • I used to drive one of them ('98 New Beetle TDI, 5-spd.). Really enjoyed it. After emissions equipment, it only has about 95 HP, but it doesn't feel like it. The engine has a lot of low end torque, and through the manual gearbox it's pretty fun to drive. With the auto, it'd be a misery.

          I used to regularly get between 39 and 44 MPG out of it, and I did a lot of mixed secondary/highway driving. I think if you really drove with economy in mind, it would be closer to 45-50.

          The price of the fuel fluctuates here

  • AM2 vs. Conroe (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23 2006, @11:37AM (#15387886)
    Hexus Review [hexus.net].

    Not entirely on topic, but it is interesting.
  • Well, they did but not in any particular quantity, and pretty much only in the beginning to launch the Athlon off the ground. So what was the problem?
  • Seeing as the ATI board doesn't have a built-in ethernet controller (which honestly seems a little crappy, I thought these things became standard on-board features a year or two ago), and the motherboard only has a limited number of PCI / PCI-X expansion slots (very limited, if you go for an SLI setup, as I'm sure many will).. where is the room for expansion with other devices such as Soundcards, PCMCIA slots (yes, these ARE handy on desktop PCs in my opinion), WiFi cards, TV-Tuners etc?

    It seems to me that you're really limited to just 1-2 additional cards, and not having an in-built ethernet controller really limits flexibility..

    I'm also not 100% sure about having only 1 PATA connector, although this is probably a good thing these days..

    The difference in power consumption just between different motherboards is quite amazing - I have never really paid much attention to the actual motherboard I use in the past, but I guess it is starting to get quite important to over-all system performance these days.
    • That's what I thought when I skimmed through the review. Not including ethernet is a major omission, imho. It seems that ATI really just wants you to buy their mobo and a couple graphics cards.

    • Re:A little worried about networking (Score:5, Informative)

      by hattig (47930) on Tuesday May 23 2006, @12:07PM (#15388095) Journal
      There's a PCIe attached Marvel GigE controller on the ATI chipset based motherboard. It doesn't take up a PCIe slot, it's connected to the northbridge on-board.

      This is also how Intel connect their networking controllers AFAIK. Do all Intel motherboards 'limit flexibility' therefore?

      ATI merely doesn't have an ethernet controller embedded into their southbridge, and I don't blame them if they can let the board makers choose a suitable stand-alone controller that will be better in the end than whatever ATI put in.

      nVidia went the opposite way, and put two GigE controllers with lots of fancy stuff into their southbridge. Great for the 1% of people who need two Ethernet controllers, but I expect it is a side-effect of nVidia's server chipset line which probably shares the southbridge.
    • If you read correctly you will note that they didn't build it into the CHIPSET - i would bet you would be hard pressed to find a board with that chipset that didn't have a Netcard built in.... personaly i think it makes sence.. it is a chipset designed to talk to devices.. and an network card is designed to talk to the world.. and honestly other companys are better at designing network cards then ATI or nVidia.. let the main board manufacture pick which one to put on.
        • it doesn't invalidate the power issue. there are far to many variables to cover and honestly no hardware review site has the testing equipment to test how much power a chipset uses .. they are taking relative delta values and shoving them on there web site..

          personaly i don't think it will hurt ATI one bit.. board designers are used to this kind of thing and it will make no diffrence.. except on low end boards expect to see Realtek chips and high end see Intel Pro's or some thing of the like..

          personaly i do
    • Seeing as the ATI board doesn't have a built-in ethernet controller (which honestly seems a little crappy

      I'll agree with you there, but...


      It seems to me that you're really limited to just 1-2 additional cards, and not having an in-built ethernet controller really limits flexibility

      Except for graphics cards (which have typically had their own bus since the days of VL - And even though anything can theoretically use x16, nothing does except graphics) and network, what more do you really need?

      TV tun
      • That's funny, you can definitely hear the difference with my turtle beach Montego DDL. Aside from that I haven't seen a graphics card yet come with an HD-TV Tuner. Currently in my comp I've got my vid card, capture card, sound card. So really all you'd need I say is 3 slots. Of course room for a slot cooler would be nice with the heat output of most vid cards today. I was shocked when my new vid card ran hotter than my processor. Oh well, there are plenty of manufacturers out there. SLI isn't a huge issue b
        • You won't see a card with a non-OTA HDTV tuner in it because HDTV is the Sacred Cash Cow of the Networks and needs to be protected at all costs from the Evil Computer Pirates by loads of DRM. You might see them as standalone boxes that require authentication tokens like CableCards and such, but they will probably use an encrypted cable connection to a proprietary app on the computer with a TPM that only makes DRMed files.

          I only have one card in my computer, a little PCIe GeForce 6200TC running my two monito
    • PCI-X is an extention to the PCI standard that was available in workstations and servers, which was available I think starting around 2002. It used the 64 bit PCI slot and allowed it to operate at up to 133MHz, I am not sure if 266MHz ever made it to production). It was primarily used for high speed RAID and network cards.

      True to historical form, PCI-Express group made a completely different, incompatible standard (electrically and physically) but still used the same name. If you want a video card, you w

  • Whoa - the chipset alone makes 20W difference? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by pla (258480) on Tuesday May 23 2006, @12:00PM (#15388034) Journal
    I've recently started trying to build my new systems to draw as little power as possible. I've done fairly well at it, too (largely thanks to the 90nm Athlon 64s, although I'll keep my eyes on Intel's new offerings), with not a single system in my house sucking over 100W at the wall.

    But I have to admit, it never even occurred to me that the chipset alone could account for (over) 20W difference between systems - And that only considers the difference between the two, not the absolute draw. I had previously focused on the CPU, then the GPU, then HDDs, in that order.

    With the current trend in power consumption, it looks like my next system will focus on the GPU first, then Northbridge, then CPU, then HDDs! Holy reversals, Batman!

    What next - Should I worry just how much power my fans and ever-growing number of parts with numerous LEDs draw? I never considered them as a significant draw, either...
    • What do you expect of something that needs a heat sink and fan? Granted, it is smaller than that of the common CPUs and faster GPUs, I currently don't run a graphics card that has a fan and the heat sink is pretty small.
    • is it fullbore or idle? What are you building your boxes with? I've been wanted to build a low power computer but it looks expensive and you're stuck with something what can't be upgraded, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

      • Re:Whoa - the chipset alone makes 20W difference? (Score:5, Informative)

        by pla (258480) on Tuesday May 23 2006, @01:57PM (#15388749) Journal
        How did you do it? Which components did you choose, and what tools are available to test things like power consumption and heat output?

        Just a little meta-comment first... If you log in to post, you can have Slashdot tell you when someone replies. But since you asked, I'll presume you plan to check back in the near future. :)


        For measurement, I use a simple kill-a-watt meter. WONDERFUL little toy, and pretty cheap. Unless you have access to dozens of samples, though, you'll need to do your research up-front and the measurement just confirms your success. The below suggestions you should take as BROAD generalizations, you really need to look up each component of your system and pick ones that work together and give you what you need, all while minimizing power.

        For your first critical decision (even if you put CPU as the #1 constraint), graphics. Do you just want desktop productivity with only the most basic 3d acceleration? Go for on-board Unichrome or (a bit older) Radeon Xpress (which tend to include the whole chipset, not just video). If you want some "real" 3d power for gaming, but don't rank that as the sole reason you own a PC, try to get one of the newer mobile GPUs. Personally, I went with a GeForce 6600, which draws low enough power to work in a passively-cooled config, but has enough horsepower to play previous-gen games at full res and highest quality (and most current games at the default quality). You might also consider driver support for it first - Many GPUs now offer a wide range of performance, dynamically selectable, so you can run in low performance (and thus low power) mode most of the time, then kick it up to play a game.

        For the motherboard, if you don't need a ton of peripherals, uATX boards tend to consider power draw as a design constraint whereas most MBs seem to assume you'll just get a bigger power supply if necessary. And now we see that chipset makes a big difference as well - I'll apparently need to research this topic far more for my next build. ;-)

        Which brings me to power supply... Most people don't think anything of it, and get the cheapest, biggest one they can find. I currently run all SeaSonic S-12s (well, one older SeaSonic, the model of which I forget but the same basic design as the S-12s). Nice quiet 12cm fan, and 85% efficient. They cost a little more, but keep your total power budget in mind - When I say I don't have a single system drawing over 100W at-the-wall, I mean it. I have one 380W in my file-server (spinning up four drives will most likely represent the biggest load your system sees), and the rest have 220W (the lowest SeaSonic makes), with not even a hint of instability. And don't neglect what a difference a few percent more efficient makes - On a high-end rig that draws 400W internally, going from 70 to 85% efficient will save a whopping 60W at-the-wall.

        Currently, the biggest difference you can make comes from the CPU. Go with a P4, and you might as well abandon power consumption as a design constraint. On the opposite end of that spectrum, if you don't need a lot of horsepower, the Via Epia boards (of which you can now get a dual-CPU model, the DP-310) absolutely rock and have everything on-board - I run a passively cooled single-CPU Dual-NIC Epia as my internet gateway, with a CF drive, and the whole thing draws 26W (IIRC); yet, when necessary, I can use it as a low-end desktop machine fully capable of doing just about any common task short of gaming or video editing. For my "real" machines, I currently have Athlon64s (one RS400 chipset and one NForce4, the latter of which I now regret after reading the FP link). Though spec'd at a TDP of 65W, in practice they draw 30-35W under load, and 7-11W idle. A Pentium-M would give more bang-per-watt, but they cost a hell of a lot more. And as I mentioned, the next-gen Core Duos look very promising.

        For memory, running one gig stick instead of two 512MB sticks (otherwise ide

        • Re:Whoa - the chipset alone makes 20W difference? (Score:5, Informative)

          by darkwhite (139802) on Tuesday May 23 2006, @03:22PM (#15389367)
          That's a nice overview, but one important thing you forgot to mention for those who want a decent video card with a good performance/power ratio is that NVIDIA just recently came out with the G71/G73 cores, both manufactured at 90nm, which market as 7900GTX, 7900GT, 7600GT, and 7600GS in decreasing order of power draw. The last one in particular has amazing price/performance/power balance - it's only about 4x slower than the most ridiculous single-card solution out there, has passive cooling (!), and can be had for under $120.
          • one important thing you forgot to mention for those who want a decent video card with a good performance/power ratio is that NVIDIA just recently came out with the G71/G73 cores

            Wow? I actually hadn't seen a comparison of those in terms of energy efficiency yet.

            Having just looked it up, I see the 7600GS draws a mere 32W - Fully 20W (give or take a few between implementations) less than the 6600!

            And it comes in dual-DVI versions. Aww man - Now I need a reason to justify the upgrade! ;-)

        • Currently, the biggest difference you can make comes from the CPU. Go with a P4, and you might as well abandon power consumption as a design constraint. On the opposite end of that spectrum, if you don't need a lot of horsepower, the Via Epia boards... For my "real" machines, I currently have Athlon64s... A Pentium-M would give more bang-per-watt, but they cost a hell of a lot more. And as I mentioned, the next-gen Core Duos look very promising.

          As a low-power desktop platform, the current-gen Intel Co

  • Linux support (Score:2, Interesting)

    by martok (7123)

    One of the reasons we haven't been able to move to athlon64 is the lack of Linux support on the nforce5 chipsets. In particular, SATA NCQ has never worked and afaik, they required an NDA for the ATA developers to work on this. I've also heard the ethernet has some issues. So let's hope these chipsets open up a bit.

    Intel's chipsets have excellent Linux support BTW from the open ahci SATA to the e1000 ethernet drivers.

    • I have had good luck with both several Intel chipsets (845MP, 855GM, E7530) and NVIDIA's Nforce4 chipset in Linux. Some earlier versions of the "forcedeth" driver had issues, but the current one is very stable. I have never had chipset-related troubles in Linux. The only problem I have ever even had with hardware is a Windows PocketPC that won't sync with SynCE, but that's probably a different case...
      • Linux developers should be telling nVidea to go to hell.
        I assume you mean "should" in the sense that they're correct in doing so. Search LKML for NVidia and look for a kind word. Not only does NVidia not release documenation for the graphics hardware, but even their network, sound, and SATA hardware needs to be essentially reverse engineered. If it wasn't for my gaming addiction coupled with my not-so-steely resolve, I would never buy anything from NVidia.

  • nVidia Forceware 90 Series (Score:3, Informative)

    by eddy (18759) on Tuesday May 23 2006, @12:35PM (#15388254) Homepage Journal
    In conjunction with this, nVidia are also today releasing their new Series 90 [nvidia.com] of drivers for Windows, the biggest visible change is a new configuration panel interface [vr-zone.com].

  • *Raises his hand* (Score:3, Interesting)

    by thebdj (768618) on Tuesday May 23 2006, @12:42PM (#15388288) Journal
    Does anyone else remember when VIA was a big player in the chipsets? Like seriously, what happened to Via? I hardly see any AMD boards using Via chipsets anymore, most the new ones were all nForce until ATI started theirs as well...
    • I'm waiting for the VIA chipsets. I expect they will support AGP, and will be cheaper due to not having features I'm uninterested in.

      On the other hand, I may just get a 754 chipset sempron in a month, instead of waiting.
    • They made one chipset that some people had some compatibility issues with ; most of which can be overcome, I know, I had some and then I didn't.

      The people who weren't able to fix their issues were extremely vocal, of course, and public opinion swayed away from VIA. Which is too bad, I've been extremely pleased with my VIA-equipped boards.
  • If the ATi chipset drivers are anything like their graphics card drives (bloated and buggy), then no way! nVidia's nForce line has never let me down, I for one will stay with the nForce line.

  • I tried one ATI chipset... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Malor (3658) on Tuesday May 23 2006, @01:34PM (#15388611) Journal
    Last year, I was trying to build a HTPC, and bought a little SFF box. It had an ATI chipset inside... what a complete piece of shit it was. The drivers were awful, and the USB never really worked right. The system was connected via USB wireless, and I could rarely copy more than a 25mb file or so before the ENTIRE USB SUBSYSTEM would lock up... wiping out keyboard, mouse, everything. Ended up having to do a hard power off every single time. Turns out this was a widely known problem and, to my knowledge, it was never fixed. That SFF was a complete waste of money, a total loss. I should have just lit a few hundred-dollar bills on fire.... at least it wouldn't have taken all the troubleshooting time.

    After my previous experience with the dismal ATI graphic drivers, particularly in OpenGL, they are on my shitlist for at least the next three or four years. The hardware may be good, but who can tell with drivers that suck that badly?

    I'd suggest steering WAY clear of any ATI chipset.
  • Hardware sites sure know how to make me feel good about my purchase.

    "NVIDIA's nForce4 chipset family was introduced more than a year and a half ago, so it's long overdue for a replacement".

    Dam you Techreport!

    Btw a Passively cooled 7600GS from Newegg for $99 AR is a dam fine "budget" GPU choice.
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