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Hardware Technology

Always on Laptops 48

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the moving-towards-flash-laptops dept.
yapplejax writes "PortalPlayer is offering an interesting laptop technology to manufacturers which will allow information to be displayed without actually booting the computer. The addition will cost manufacturers a mere $30 - $40 and is supported by Vista via the feature "SideShow"." From the article: "PortalPlayer kept down the costs of Preface by using a display used in mobile phones, rather that developing one specially, to take advantage of the economies of scale in the phone market, Johnson said. The costs will include $18 to $20 for a display, about $12 for the single-chip processor and a few dollars for memory and other small components, he said."
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Always on Laptops More

Always on Laptops

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  • How about this... (Score:4, Funny)

    by aarku ( 151823 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @03:13PM (#14618438) Journal
    I keep my laptop on in sleep mode, and you keep your special display and processor.
    • I keep my laptop on in sleep mode, and you keep your special display and processor.

      Don't forget to turn on your laptop now and then to check the data the special display you don't have doesn't display...

  • Linux support? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by krbvroc1 ( 725200 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @03:14PM (#14618453)
    This is simply a computer (system on a chip) within a laptop running its own firmware. The 'press release' mentions a Windows API. Does it have an open API so that any OS running on the laptop can access this device? It sounds like it might be one of those devices that you must boot into windows to configure it. Very little substance on the PortalPlayer website about their SDK. It also sounds like its embeds a small LCD display in the laptop cover.

    • Re:Linux support? (Score:3, Informative)

      by merlin_jim ( 302773 )
      I saw a prototype of this at PDC 2005 last year - it's a screen on the laptop cover and a software API to load it up with data.

      Programmers design their own UI and program against it with .NET... The idea is to provide access to information that the user may want quick access to. The demo showed a weather application, an email application (seemed to be notification based as in "you have 56 unread messages", not an email client) and an expedia client that showed travel details - something potentially very ni
      • so of all "that's the end of..." stories, this is the one about the end of laptop cases ;)

        but if there is enough hype over this thing to make really useful applications pop up everywhere then i guess it would only be a matter of time until the same api will be used to push content to your bluetooth appliance of choice (mine happens to be a phone) and then that combination could be successful, even if the initial system could get degraded to a mere stepping stone.

    • Linux support, who cares? If it's going to have a runtime of more than 14 days, it's going to be running GNU/Linux, BSD or QNX. Being a M$ toy, we can be sure they won't tell anyone else how to use it and it will take a year or so for the free drivers to make their way into the kernel. Of course, M$ users are the only people who need such a silly thing and use with Vista is an admission of failure.

      If you want to keep your laptop on all the time, just run GNU/Linux yourself and use APM/ACPI for hibernati

  • Mobile File Formats? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TheOtherAgentM ( 700696 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @03:17PM (#14618495)
    I would assume the files you can read are special, because otherwise your no boot system is in its own booted status to read the files. At that time, you might as well boot the laptop.

  • peek inside? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gEvil (beta) ( 945888 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @03:18PM (#14618511)
    What exactly do they mean by 'peek inside?' I guess I don't particularly see the applications for this sort of thing. Are they talking about being able to look up a contact or read an email message without firing the whole laptop up? Or is this to have an interface into your mp3 collection? Anybody with some insight into the uses for this?

    • Re:peek inside? (Score:3, Informative)

      by merlin_jim ( 302773 )
      Well the demo I saw last year, the guy went and booked a flight on expedia, then turned off his laptop and right there on the cover flipped through a handful of applications into an expedia sidebar app... showed flight date/time, airline, gate, and seat assignment... without having to power on the laptop.

      I was impressed.
      • So if I duct-taped a PDA to the cover of my laptop, you'd be impressed? This is all it is.

        You must be easily impressed...

        Grab.
        • So if I duct-taped a PDA to the cover of my laptop, you'd be impressed?

          No... I'd be impressed if you cut open your case, managed to fit the PDA there in the half a millimeter or so of empty space there, wired it up internally to the battery and USB ports, then wrote a software API that would let you create GUI applications on it in any .NET language, and then rewrote the operating system to sync automatically with it when new information was available. Then I would be impressed.

          Without that you're just an

  • Sounds familiar (Score:2, Interesting)

    by itsownreward ( 688406 )
    This has been talked about for a few months, ever since Asus demoed a version like this. You can see a current take on it (with quite a few links) that works in Windows XP here: http://www.makezine.com/extras/41.html [makezine.com]

    Granted, it's ugly as sin, but it works and gives you space to start working on potential applications and uses for this technology.
    • You can see a current take on it (with quite a few links) that works in Windows XP here: http://www.makezine.com/extras/41.html [makezine.com] [makezine.com

      Great, just what I need, *another* piece of generic PC hardware with a Windows logo permanently printed on it. I was slightly annoyed when keyboards started to sport a dedicated Microsoft key, but having a LCD display with the same thing will really get on my nerves...

  • I was hoping (Score:3, Funny)

    by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) <akaimbatman@gmaYEATSil.com minus poet> on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @03:24PM (#14618567) Homepage Journal
    And here I was hoping that someone had come up with a laptop that never needed to be turned off.

    FWIW, it is possible to create a laptop that will power itself for years on end. Unfortunately, it would require that a consumer-focused Radioisotope Thermal Generator [wikipedia.org] be developed that is far lighter weight than the current models. Even then, it will still add a few pounds to your laptop, but what's a little extra weight when you never need to plug in? ;-)

    Sadly, the current anti-nuclear stance of the public makes such "nuclear batteries" an unlikely development. Just throw it atop the pile of cool technologies that have never seen the light of day. :-(

    • Re:I was hoping (Score:3, Informative)

      by necro81 ( 917438 )
      Yes, but what happens when you have an RTG in your laptop, and you have the thing on your lap? Since they are typically used in spacecraft, I guess waste heat and leaked radiation isn't usually much of a problem in their design. On your lap, right near your crotch, I think there might be a problem or two.

      • Re:I was hoping (Score:3, Insightful)

        by AKAImBatman ( 238306 )
        Since they are typically used in spacecraft, I guess waste heat and leaked radiation isn't usually much of a problem in their design.

        1) If it's leaking radiation, then it's not a very good design. The entire point of an RTG is to convert radiation to electricity. If you're letting it escape, you're letting your power escape.

        2) Waste heat is already a huge problem. You're going to have that problem whether you use a 65Watt battery or a 65Watt RTG.

    • Re:I was hoping (Score:4, Funny)

      by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @03:36PM (#14618720)
      Sadly, the current anti-nuclear stance of the public makes such "nuclear batteries" an unlikely development. Just throw it atop the pile of cool technologies that have never seen the light of day.

      If you ever break your atomic battery, you'll never need the light of day again, as you'll glow in the dark rather spectacularly.
      • If you ever break your atomic battery, you'll never need the light of day again, as you'll glow in the dark rather spectacularly.

        And this, my friends, is why we don't have laptop batteries that last 10+ years. Because of a hick-town sherrif who's afraid to glow in the dark. :-P

        BTW, visit your eye doctor sometime. They've got this cool phosphorus solution that they put in your eyes to check your vision. It works great for Halloween parties as you can make your eyes glow in the dark. I think I should go as a
    • That would be a laptop that not only didn't need to be turned off, it couldn't be turned off (the nuclear battery will continue emitting energy whether you use it or not).
    • Uh, upon what will the laptop with the Radioisotope Thermal Generator be sitting? There are some things very near my lap that I would prefer not to expose to high-energy radiation thank you very much.
    • Can't they just put in a cold fusion generator and have the thing run on water?
  • Yet more pointless hardware, that drives up the cost of laptops, how hard is it to boot a laptop?
    • It is about how much power does it take.
    • Its not about how hard it is, its about how long it takes. and the inconvenience of doing so (plus shutting down) for information which would be much more easily obtained by looking at the side of your closed, turned off laptop.
    • Yet more pointless hardware, that drives up the cost of laptops, how hard is it to boot a laptop?

      In my estimation, this feature will probably only be implemented on high-end laptops at first, like all other new technologies. Therefore, if you don't need the technology, this will probably drive down the cost of laptops without supplemental displays, making non-2-display laptops cheaper. So quit whining.

  • Does it get the information using windows (without booting windows?), or windows can update the external display using the API? . If its the former which I guess it is (using second for setting up the first),the idea is very close to information on a cellphone, and I think Linux can also be supported since it also can provide the same info, afterall its not using the hardware specially designed for windows.
    • And if it bypasses Windows, why not make the screen a bit bigger? In that way you never have to use Windows at all! Hey, why not scoop out all the hardware inside the laptop and put this new thing in?
  • Serious question, only Vista support is mentioned....

  • Put the OS on embedded non-volitile memory already (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheSkepticalOptimist ( 898384 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @03:43PM (#14618802)
    Honestly, embed OS'es like Linux or Windows in some form of memory on a laptop or desktop mainboard and turn it into a calculator already!

    It is freaking ridiculous that 6/7 years into the 21st Century (however you count it) that we still rely on BOOTING computers from antiquated electromagnetic platters before we can access the software applications.

    There is no reason why all the OS components, kernel and key applications cannot reside in some built in non-volatile memory so that the computer is technically "always-on" even if the power is turned off. All you do is restore the environment in the memory as opposed to booting fresh. You can pair that with keeping a small charge on volatile memory to keep the current desktop environment active in low power mode.

    This may actually make the OS more secure as you can make sure that nothing can touch or corrupt the embedded software and OS kernel simply by making the embedded software read only. Patches, updates or upgrades would require a sophisticated authentication protocol to allow changes to the embedded OS software.

    It ain't rocket science.

    I know PDA's and mobile platforms used embedded OS'es, but is there any reason why the humble Desktop or Laptop computers can't use this same technology? Put 1gb of embedded non-volatile memory on to the mainboard and let Windows or your favourite OS of choice be installed into it in its running state.

    In some ways I find that computer/software technology has become stagnant. No matter how fast CPU's get, or how fancy OS'es get there are some things that haven't changed for almost 30 years on computers. It's time for a revolution, make our computers better darn it instead of adding cutesy add ons that mimic what real innovation could do more effectively.
    • It's been done before.

      A buddy had a Tandy PC that was equipped with DOS v3.3 in the BIOS (designated c:\)

      It didn't work very well in practice, but in theory, damn it was cool.

      (Among many software problems that he had due to c:\ being read-only, the whole system was slow as hell.)
      • Yeah, but ROM is slow. You could boot the OS out of the flash, keeping only core files (a few libraries, the kernel, etc). You'd just copy the flash contents to memory (something too expensive back then) and run it there. That would be no different from loading it from disk to memory and running it. But it would be much faster. And since it is only a few OS files, programs would all still be on the C: drive. And if they want to mess with one of those files in the Flash, there would be a copy on the HD as a
      • The Zenith MiniSPORT laptops had the same thing: DOS in ROM, and the HMA could be hardware-assigned as EMS, battery-backed RAMdisk, or a mix of both. I never noticed a speed problem, it was snappy no matter what. Software at the time didn't generally count on having a hard drive at all, so C: being read-only wasn't a big deal.

    • Re:Put the OS on embedded non-volitile memory alre (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, it's not rocket science, but it is incredibly complex, and I'm guessing from your post that you've never studied how operating systems work or things like "authentication protocols". What happens when you go without power for an extended period of time? You lose your entire OS. What do you do if you want to upgrade your OS and the volatile memory you're storing it on doesn't have enough space? (keep in mind that volatile memory is MUCH more expensive than a hard drive) How do you differentiate norm
    • It ain't rocket science.

      No, it's called standby.
  • Since many of the people who would use this technology (business travelers, executives, geeks, etc.) will have a PDA or even a cell phone with them anyway, I think a better way to implement this technology is using bluetooth.

    Basically they could save the cost of the extra display in the laptop, but allow the data and APIs to be exported via bluetooth. Then I run the client app on my PDA (or maybe even cell phone), and I don't even have to lug my laptop out of the bag to see the latest email or flight tim

  • OSX (Score:2, Informative)

    by rjstanford ( 69735 )
    Or you could just buy a Mac and enjoy a computer that's "on" as soon as you finish opening the lid, which removes a large portion of the need for this special screen. Admittedly you would still have to open it, but considering that you already need to unzip your bag, take the laptop out, orient it, et ceteara, popping open the screen is no big deal. Unless you're on a Windows laptop that can take an amazing long time to go from sleep mode to fully functional (like mine).
    • Interesting. I have a Windows laptop, and a PowerBook, and I have exactly the opposite experience. Strangely enough, the PowerBook sometimes comes up quickly, then immediately goes back to sleep on me before I can do anything.

  • Do We Really Need This? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @04:19PM (#14619255) Homepage
    Do we really need this? It seems rather useless to me. First, so you know, there are pictures of this kind of thing that another comment [slashdot.org] has linked to.

    Now, does that look useless to you or what? I can see my appointments! Wow. My PDA does that now. Or my phone can. Or my watch can. Soon my Toaster will too. And with my PDA I can edit the appointment. With these little screens, you either can't edit it (useless) or it would have to use the disk (must understand filesystem, file format, etc; HDs use battery) or it just saves the changes into memory to be put into the schedule program when you boot it up (that would require battery to keep the memory going). Neither of those seem useful.

    But it's on my laptop! So when I want to see an appointment on the road, instead of looking at my PDA or Phone (as I said before), I can pull out my laptop out of it's case and press a button so I can read data off a little 2" screen. Wow. For all that time, I could just use the laptop. My Mac comes out of sleep in about 2 or 3 seconds. I can open the program, look at what I want, and close it back up in under 20. How long would it take me to get details on an appointment with these little screens. Can I even do that? My Mac uses almost no power when in sleep mode (it tells me when it comes out of sleep that it could stay that way for about 10 days). And newer macs have a disk based sleep mode that uses NO power (instead of next-to-no-power).

    Sure, it may be useful if you keep your laptop on your desk and you want to be able to glance over at it... but if you do that, leave the laptop plugged in and turned on.

    This seems like a solution in search of a problem. People like the little screens on their phones because they can see who is calling. The screen on the laptop doesn't provide that. See if you got new e-mail messages? Nope. It would either have to talk to the e-mail server (waste of battery, complex) or it would have to get the mail program to check (which involves basically running the laptop all the time).

    And, after all of this, if you want to act on something you see on the screen by running the program in Windows, you either have to open the lid and wait for it to come out of sleep (can take awhile, from the laptops I've seen around me), or the computer was off and you have to turn it on and wait for a full boot. Genius.

    I'm with another post. For that price ($30) you can easily embed 256MB (or maybe even 512 since it doesn't have to bee too small) of Flash on the motherboard and boot the OS kernel and some other stuff out of that. That would cut boot times a ton. That would save power (don't spin up the disk unless you need it). That would make sense.

    But adding a little screen that won't give you much value? Don't bother.

  • Here's a link but scroll down to the FLorence image:http://intel.com/technology/itj/2005/volume0 9issue01/intro/p06_new_usages.htm [intel.com]

    Me, I'd really want instant-on more than always on. The suspend on ol thinkpads PLUS linux always messes up the sound (even IBM admitted this at least for this OS), so I hardly use either one.
     
  • My laptop is already always on. It's a 12" PowerBook G4. I open the lid and within a second I can use the computer. I close the lid and within a second it's put into a sleep so deep the battery is almost not draining at all. I can leave it unplugged and asleep for days at a time, but as soon as I open the lid within a second I can use the computer.

    Get a Mac next time.
    • I'll back this up. My iBook is never off, I can leave it for days in its case, and then get it out, flip up the lid and be doing stuff within a couple of seconds.

      Far more useful than having this extra display ON the laptop (meaning you have to get out the laptop, orient it, etc) would be to have a subsystem that would work over bluetooth with a compatible phone/PDA/whatever to give you various status messages.
  • you don't need always on, because the power drains from your battery if you have your mouse or printer connected via the USB ports.

    So, why bother with always on technology - just get WinXP!

    [caveat - I own WinXP on my AMD eMachine laptop - and man does it drain the batteries ... ]

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