Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Robotics Toys

Fighting Android Sparring Partner 111

Posted by Zonk from the so-many-ways-this-could-go-badly dept.
GeneOff writes "Just in time for Christmas, comes FA1, the fighting android from SDT (Self Defence Technologys.) I loved my Rock-Em, Sock-Em robots I got one year from Santa. But it was tough getting opponents. Well, no more. Here is a hackable real robot that won't whimp out on you." From the article: "... a robot that can jab, hook, and cross, but still keep the violence to a minimum with adjustable difficulty levels. The FA1 can also dodge your punches with "human-like" movements and he should be hanging out on the show floor at CES -- so we'll be sure to challenge him to a round of verbal barbs from a distance."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Fighting Android Sparring Partner More

Fighting Android Sparring Partner

Comments Filter:

  • What? (Score:3, Funny)

    by seaniqua ( 796818 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @04:32AM (#14373483)
    Posted by Zonk on Sunday January 01, @03:24AM

    Just in time for Christmas? This may be one of the few times where it would actually be appropriate for the article to be a dupe.

  • How long? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @04:36AM (#14373488)
    Till we see it in arcades? In Japan anyway, since Arcades are dead here in the states, but still :).

  • Won't SOMEBODY think of the humans?! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Qwell ( 684661 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @04:42AM (#14373495)
    Doesn't this kinda violate Asimov's first law of robotics?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotic s [wikipedia.org]
    • Doesn't this kinda violate Asimov's first law of robotics?

      No, because by sacrificing themselves to teach humans self-defense they're protecting humans from harm! And isn't that what robot-man love is all about?

    • Historically, there are three major gray areas where Asimov's laws break down.

      The first is long-term harm/benefit ratios. The robots that Asimov writes about are incapable of seeing long-term benefit (like scientific advancement in exchange for a minute risk of radiation poisoning--see the short Little Lost Robot from the I, Robot collection). So in this case, Asimov's robots would be incapable of striking a human, but they would be capable of acting as a bag-holder.

      The second is emotional trauma fr

      • I think this is why people should start using more than three laws, which seems to be failing as far as robots go.

      • And third is long term vs. short term human harm. Asimov's "study of potentials" excuse might overcome this test case, but I doubt it. Within a city center, a gigantic weight is suspended over a human being, and set to crush him at T=12 seconds. A nuclear device is primed to go off 5 seconds after the weight crushes the person (T=17). The robot is placed at the midpoint between the two devices and given a top speed such that he is 10 seconds away from each. The robot can save the man, but in doing so the c

    • Other than remembering the original Rock'em Sock'em Robots, my first reactions to the posting were to remember the Rocky Horror Theme Music [rockymusic.org].

      Besides, the term "Robots" first appeared in Capek's play R.U.R. [wikipedia.org], where they definitely hadn't thought of Asimov's laws yet.

  • Might want to rethink some actions (Score:5, Funny)

    by Belseth ( 835595 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @04:43AM (#14373497)
    The groin kick feature may limit sales.

  • well (Score:1)

    by know1 ( 854868 )
    i reckon i could take one of these down

  • Speaking of... (Score:4, Funny)

    by jadin ( 65295 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @05:01AM (#14373518) Homepage
    I want mine with a Chuck Norris personality chip...

  • Interesting... but... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Guru84 ( 932641 )
    I always hate it when I see something about "androids" in the news. When I think of an android, I think of Data from Star Trek or something. I don't think of a stiff, plastic looking, herky-jerky, oversized toy. I wish they would get to making some cool androids that can actually do more than three or four very basic things. Bring on Data!

  • missing feature (Score:3, Funny)

    by User 956 ( 568564 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @05:06AM (#14373526) Homepage
    Just in time for Christmas, comes FA1, the fighting android from SDT (Self Defence Technologys.) The FA1 can also dodge your punches with "human-like" movements

    That's great, but can it find Sarah Connor?

  • Just in time for Christmas? (Score:3)

    by rnturn ( 11092 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @05:27AM (#14373553)

    Dang! Something's got to be done about the length of the submission queue at Slashdot!

    A fighting robot, eh? This reminds me of the old Twilight Zone episode "Steel" (with Lee Marvin).

  • Doubtful (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kai.chan ( 795863 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @05:29AM (#14373554)
    There is a few reasons why I doubt the usefulness of this robot.

    1) To develop an "android" with "human-like" combative movements is unlikely at this point in time. The Actroid shown in the videos here [kokoro-dreams.co.jp] is quite advanced in mimicing human motions, but the movements are very jerky and the motor control is very obvious.

    2) The previous point leads to another problem. Training with a mechnical dummy is detrimental to gaining actual combat experience. The "android" will , no doubt, move in a series of jerky movements predefined by state machines. A human fighter flows from one move to another. The android can't help replicate real combat unless it has physics and advanced algorithms programmed into it. Also, the android shown in the picture seems to be stationary. Boxing and martial arts is very dynamic, so the android serves more like a game than a serious combat trainer.

    3) The article claims that the android can dodge punches. I say that it can't. It takes a fist less than a quarter of a second to travel from the ready position to the opponent's face. The microprocessor needs to do image processing to realize that the fist is moving towards a specific area, which will require many image frames before it can actually determine the fist movements. And even if the microprocessor was able to act fast enough, I haven't seen any motors that can rotate fast enough.

    4) Cost. A stepping side-kick has tremedous amount of force. If a kick can knock a human 10 feet back, I doubt that the android can sustain its working condition after numerous attacks. When it breaks down, how much would it cost to get it serviced?

    • Re:Doubtful (Score:3, Insightful)

      by gordo3000 ( 785698 )
      While I agree with your first 3 points, I don't think the fourth is a valid problem.

      The danger of the side kick is not that it can't be dodged easily, but that when it hits, it can do a lot of damage to a person. But that is the key, it is to a person. This is a man made machine. It can easily be built to withstand even the strongest kicks. People aren't all that strong in the grand scheme of things, it is only when you compare people to other people that the strength seems incredible.

      of course, I have no

    • Tricks (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "3) The article claims that the android can dodge punches. I say that it can't. It takes a fist less than a quarter of a second to travel from the ready position to the opponent's face. The microprocessor needs to do image processing to realize that the fist is moving towards a specific area, which will require many image frames before it can actually determine the fist movements. And even if the microprocessor was able to act fast enough, I haven't seen any motors that can rotate fast enough."

      -Image proces

      • For that configuration of robot, either it moves real slow, or if they've geared it to move quickly then it has no force behind it.

        You simply can't have high force and high speed that matches what a human can do in that size of a robot with motors of today.

        • For that configuration of robot, either it moves real slow, or if they've geared it to move quickly then it has no force behind it.

          You simply can't have high force and high speed that matches what a human can do in that size of a robot with motors of today.

          You're arguing a different point. Did you miss the part where he said solenoid? No motor, no gears. High speed, high force. The downside? High energy cost.

          • You're arguing a different point. Did you miss the part where he said solenoid? No motor, no gears. High speed, high force. The downside? High energy cost.
            Could be electric solenoid, but again they are not high force, and difficult to control (could explain the jerky movements some people saw in the video). Hydraulic would give you the needed force (and more) but I see no bulky connections for hydraulics.

    • Re:Doubtful (Score:3, Insightful)

      by tamnir ( 230394 )

      3) The article claims that the android can dodge punches. I say that it can't. It takes a fist less than a quarter of a second to travel from the ready position to the opponent's face. The microprocessor needs to do image processing to realize that the fist is moving towards a specific area, which will require many image frames before it can actually determine the fist movements. And even if the microprocessor was able to act fast enough, I haven't seen any motors that can rotate fast enough.

      It looks like

    • the android serves more like a game than a serious combat trainer.

      I got the impression that it is supposed to be a game... Correct me if I'm wrong.

    • The article claims that the android can dodge punches. I say that it can't. It takes a fist less than a quarter of a second to travel from the ready position to the opponent's face. The microprocessor needs to do image processing to realize that the fist is moving towards a specific area, which will require many image frames before it can actually determine the fist movements.
      I have some expirience in 3d tracking and I don't agree. My Nokia 6600 phone with 15 frame/sec camera and 109mhz CPU (without FP

      • I have some expirience in 3d tracking and I don't agree. My Nokia 6600 phone with 15 frame/sec camera and 109mhz CPU (without FPU) can detect 3d position of rectangular marker relativly to camera and make some 3d rendering with 8 frame/sec speed

        So how exactly are you getting 3D information from a single camera? Are you assuming a known size of the marker or are you comparing successive frames? what is the accuracy of your depth resolution?

        A camera is probably not the best way to do this unless you put s

        • So how exactly are you getting 3D information from a single camera? Are you assuming a known size of the marker or are you comparing successive frames? what is the accuracy of your depth resolution?

          I'm using more complex algorithm, more simple mobile versions could be found here :
          http://studierstube.org/handheld_ar/artoolkitplus. php [studierstube.org]
          or here
          http://staffwww.itn.liu.se/~andhe/UMAR/ [itn.liu.se]
          PC version
          http://artoolkit.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
          My version vill be avaliable for download probably in month or two. Dept

          • Cool. So it is using a known size high contrast target (black and white), essentially a highly constrained environment. This approach does not easily extend to a general scene with unknown targets such as would be required for boxing. That situation is much harder to deal with and slower (like 1-5 fps on decent hardware) unless as I say you use some kind of optical target on the gloves.
            • This approach does not easily extend to a general scene with unknown targets such as would be required for boxing.
              Actually I think it would be somehow more simple for boxing, because we don't have to track orientation of the glove, only it's position. For high-contrast glove (like bright red) it would be easy to extract contour from semi-known background, and after that take the geometric center and average radius of the contour for rough approach. And if to put contrast marker(s) on the glove more precis

              • I agree. However if you are depending on a high contrast glove then that is the same effect as a marker. You are containing the environment and nothing else in the scene can be the same colour as the glove. This is no longer a general scene.

                Also if you wanted to know accurate depth, then you have to know the exact size of the glove to do a model match.

                think it would be more like 10-20 fps

                In a constrained scene as described probably, not in a general scene.

                • However if you are depending on a high contrast glove then that is the same effect as a marker. You are containing the environment and nothing else in the scene can be the same colour as the glove.

                  Not exactly. There shouldn't be object with projection topologically connected to glove - like the shirt of the same color or wall. Separte obect can have the same color. About size you are correct. Of cause it is constrained scene - but we don't want general computer vision algorithm with arbitrary object re

                  • A single camera has no depth perception. A red glove held several feet in front of a red sheet will not be detected as a glove.

    • Re:Doubtful (Score:4, Informative)

      by Somegeek ( 624100 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @09:53AM (#14374021)
      I think you misunderstand the purpose of the robot. (Not surprising given the article summary.) Check out the company's webpage at:

      http://sdtandroids.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabinde x=0&tabid=1 [sdtandroids.com]

      It is not something to dynamically interact with you during an entire round of fighting, but apparently something that you will program to practice a specific move or punch on. It was designed to give you more realistic interaction and target than a punching bag and to be safer than practicing on a sparing partner.

    • I suspect the robot isn't a performance demonstrator, rather, it's just a first step. You could have said in the context of travel about the Wright Flyer too, but there's no denying that powered flying did eventually develop into something useful. This may also develop into something useful even if it isn't now.

    • Training with a mechnical dummy is detrimental to gaining actual combat experience.

      It's enough to make you wonder why the wing chun people have been training with wooden dummies for freaking ever... you ought to send them your memo.

      The article claims that the android can dodge punches. I say that it can't. It takes a fist less than a quarter of a second to travel from the ready position to the opponent's face. The microprocessor needs to do image processing to realize that the fist is moving towards a speci

    • There is a few reasons why I doubt the usefulness of this robot.

      There are a few reasons why I like this robot, and had considered the idea myself before:

      1) To develop an "android" with "human-like" combative movements is unlikely at this point in time. The Actroid shown in the videos here is quite advanced in mimicing human motions, but the movements are very jerky and the motor control is very obvious.

      I have trained for 9 years in Wing Chun, and one of my training aids has been a wooden dummy. It does not
      • I have trained for 9 years in Wing Chun, and one of my training aids has been a wooden dummy

        Sparring is more dynamic than wooden dummies. The wooden dummy does not provide the user with actual combat experience. The wooden dummy trains form, speed, and reaction. I'm sure your Sifu will agree with me. Regardless, the product is being advertised as an alternative to a sparring partner, which I disagree with.

        I disagree. No matter how fast you may think your fists are, that microprocessor is considerably
        • Sparring is more dynamic than wooden dummies. The wooden dummy does not provide the user with actual combat experience. The wooden dummy trains form, speed, and reaction. I'm sure your Sifu will agree with me. Regardless, the product is being advertised as an alternative to a sparring partner, which I disagree with.

          I agree that it cannot fully replace a human sparring partner, maybe someday, but certanly not now. The wooden dummy does train exactly what you mention, I also find that it trains power in techn
          • Andy Serkis wore a body suit with positioning markers, and his body movements were tracked in real time by computers and cameras. Additional animation was required, but the movement of his "avatar" covered every joint and bone in his body in real time to an accuracy more than required for a computer to manipulate a sparring partner.

            The technique you cited here is motion capture. However, there isn't any slow external device dependencies with recording coordinates from a few markers. It is also true that
            • Well, if you combine the real-time motion capture of Andy Serkis as gollum (check it out on the extended extras for LOTR) with the type of motors used in the ASIMO, it can be very smooth - check out this motion: http://world.honda.com/HDTV/ASIMO/New-ASIMO-run-6 k mh/index.html [honda.com] Note, I am not suggesting that the ASIMO itself would be a sparring partner, but that the motors can indeed be more fluid than you would expect, the asimo does not have to be mounted, whereas the sparring partner could indeed be.

              Soleno
  • Yeah, ok. Hack some more so it can bite off one of ears, too and shout "I'll eat your kidz!"
  • Nobody has said it yet?
    Ok then I will.

    I'd hit it!

  • WTF (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Le Marteau ( 206396 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @05:52AM (#14373573) Journal
    What is this, a joke or something? No videos of the 'android'. Just two dopey pictures. You go to the website (http://sdtandroids.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabind ex=2&tabid=2 [sdtandroids.com]) and here are the specifications of their product:

    Specifications
    Height:
    Weight:
    Power Supply:
    Materials:

    My apologies if I'm missing something, but this looks like more of a proposal than a viable product.

  • Why is it that I can see myself now curled up in a corner with this thing kicking me in the ribs?

    Damn ass-kicking robots!
  • have they put it up against Lee Marvin?
  • If it's hackable, how about giving a whole new meaning to spamfilters that fight back? download a spamfilter into its CPU, input a spammer name, and queue the voiceover:

    "Fighting Android Spamfilter 1 is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. Ant it absolutely will not stop, ever, until the spammer is dead."

    I'll buy two.

  • I want one, but for fencing. A boxing robot is pretty simplistic, compared.
  • Go, Battling Maxo, Go!
  • Sounds more fun than DanceDanceRevolution. Maybe it'll become a hit for weight-loss programs.

  • Invasion! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tajgenie ( 932485 )
    So if you put lots of them in a room, which one will win the battle royale? They are technically identical!

  • Why aren't we deploying thousands of these to Iraq? With an army of war-bots over there, we could bring all the kids home, no excuses.

  • Am I the only one who read this as "Fighting Android Spamming Partner"?

  • "Technologys?" (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is atrocious. GeneOff gets sent back to the fourth grade, and Zonk is fired for not seeing this. Anyone who compares me to a certain political movement in Germany loses and gets sent home.
    • You 68'er!
    • "Technologys?"... This is atrocious. GeneOff gets sent back to the fourth grade, and Zonk is fired for not seeing this.

      I'm surprised that you didn't catch the use of the fictional word "whimp", as in, Here is a hackable real robot that won't whimp out on you. I do believe that Zonk meant wimp [reference.com].

      Come on, people. Both of these could have been caught by running the text through a spell check. I'm sure your favorite open-source Office program or the text editor that comes with OSX has a decent one built in.
  • I survived getting beat up all through school and they think I'd buy a robot to kick my ass? Shouldn't this be listed under pr0n?
  • The FA1 fighting androids were created by man.
    They rebelled.
    They evolved.
    They look and feel human.
    Some are programmed to think they are human.
    There are many copies.
    And they have a plan.

  • Dune (Score:1)

    by rdf ( 724130 )
    Hmm, reminds of a training session in Dune, with young Paul Atreides getting his butt kicked by a sword-wielding training bot.
  • I'd like to see that stupid android go against, say, Semmy Schilt [sherdog.com]...

    Something like that would be fun to spar against when doing technique work, I guess, though it will eventually get boring when you realize blood and teeth don't fly from an android...
  • Can the robot be programmed to replicate elbows from Shorin Ryu and Judo throws as well? And what style punches does it throw? Boxing or Asian? They differ enough to make a difference!
  • There is no way that this would make an effective sparring partner. As many of the comments here have stated ... it cannot make for a challenging fight at least not until maybe v.25 comes out (in or around 2012). I see this thing more effective as a warm-up tool / smart punching bag. If you have any other expectations, you are bound to be disappointed.
  • This site needs more robot crap...

Slashdot Top Deals

"It's the best thing since professional golfers on 'ludes." -- Rick Obidiah

Close