Ramp Creates Power As Cars Pass

Ant wrote to mention a BBC News report on a ramp that generates power via passing cars. From the article: "Dorset inventor Peter Hughes' Electro-Kinetic Road Ramp creates around 10kW of power each time a car drives over its metal plates. More than 200 local authorities had expressed an interest in ordering the £25,000 ramps to power their traffic lights and road signs, Mr Hughes said."

Jackpot

[Anonymous Coward]

And just how many cars does it take to pay for one of these ramps?

How much power?

[rob_squared]

Does a tractor trailer give it? Or would that break it?

Snow/Ice Removal on Roads

[JamesAndrews]

Although the cost would be astronomical, it would be nice to implement this on highways/roads to keep them heated during the colder seasons (ie, Northern Ontario). Snow only stays on the ground because the ground temperature is below freezing. So, keeping the roads at 1 Degree Celsius would keep snow and ice off the roads.

Also, because the ice couldn't melt then freeze and expand, this would be an excellent cost savings measure over the long term: no more cracking or pot holes (which are mainly caused by freezing water.)

The other option are solar panels, but this method might be more cost effective.

Re:Great idea!

[MemoryAid]

It looks like a speed bump, so presumably it is to be placed somewhere cars are encouraged to slow down. It would make sense to convert some of that energy into electricity instead of heat.

The article said that "Depending on the weight of the vehicle passing overhead, between five and 50kW can be generated." I wonder if that is only while the car is passing, or an average figure for some reasonable level of traffic. I imagine the duty cycle of a speed bump is low.

Re:Great idea!

[aXis100]

Uhh, no. Wheels do not transfer energy (primarily), they transfer force. Force times distance (your wheels turning against torque) equals work (energy), so by wheels turning they convert the chemical energy of the fuel into kinetic energy of the car.

The only other significant energy wheels transfer to the ground is a bit of hysteresis and some skidding.

Re:Noooo way

[BLAG-blast]

No way I would avoid any roads with these, that energy the ramp "creates" it is really sapping from the vehicle.

I assume you mean you don't want to drive on the roads with these 'ramps'.

Heres an idea, since I was already taxed for purchasing the gas USE THAT MONEY TO POWER THE LIGHTS.

That brings up an interesting point. Maybe, I'm paying tax on gas to power traffic lights in your town? (I know taxes are a little more complex than that, but....) How about the people who are using the traffic lights pay for them? That sounds pretty fair, right? If you live on a street that has few traffic lights, why should you pay taxes for three streets over to power x5 the number of traffic lights when you never drive there?

This would make the lights powered by the people who are using, rather than by people who are not using them.

Re:The obvious question is

[interiot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_braking [wikipedia.org]

Basically, put these things in places people would always slow down anyway (eg. off-ramps), and it's a win-win. Free energy production for the city, and reduced wear on brake pads for the citizens.

Re:Noooo way

[nursegirl]

most Americans wouldn't understand that they're losing gas mileage.

Particularly since the company's promo video specifically says that the devices don't use extra gas. The average citizen/politician with little/no understanding of physics will believe him.

Perceived obstacle?

[Dan East]

From the pictures, that ramp appears to stick up at least 3 inches above the road surface. I don't know about you, but if I saw anything remotely that large sticking up, I'd be hitting the breaks or changing lanes to avoid it. That could be a real danger unless 100% of the drivers were already familiar with it. I would be very surprised if they tried to use it on roads with speed limits greater than 35 MPH or so.

Dan East

Re:how about if they only pop up

[dogwelder99]

Or, instead of on highways, install them as speed bumps on suburban streets with a low speed limit, and just feed the power back into the grid. Put in a movement damper and angle the ramp so the forward slope is a bit steeper than the downward slope, so that speeders pay more of a penalty. It's still a dumb idea, just a bit less dumb.

If you wanted highways to be more power-efficient, why not sink them 50 feet into the ground? You'd get a boost from potential energy and burn less fuel on a downhill on-ramp, when you're accelerating and burning inefficiently anyway... but the real savings come when you hit the uphill off-ramp, and have to bleed off less waste energy braking to a stop.

Re:Cost vs. benefit...(not really worth it)

[Anonymous Coward]

Based on my local cost of electricity ($0.06/KwHr), and assuming a ramp generates 10Kw continuously, each ramp generates $0.60 worth of electricity per hour. Neglecting installation costs and maintenance and using Friday's currency exchange rate, each ramp would have to operate 8.4 years to recoup the initial $44300 cost. Looks to me like they are far from being cost effective.

The next great Hype

[Robbyboy]

Let me chime in from the other side of the Nay-Sayers for Electro-Kinetic Road Ramps. How rugged are these things? What kind of road debris will it take for these to jam up? What will it take for someone to try to stop their cars, and lock the wheels on the ramp. What if the ramp ices over? With our litigous society, how long of a wait will it be before the inevitable occurs...

Lots of Negativity Around This Story...

[RoffleTheWaffle]

... And for what?

Okay, okay. I get the idea, this is essentially a means by which electricty can be derived from the same energy that drives your vehicle. However... isn't this energy that would just be wasted, anyway? This thing doesn't exactly slow down your car. It's not like it's sucking power right out of your engine. This is kinetic energy combined with the force of gravity and the weight of your car, energies that would just be wasted and poured into the ground otherwise. Ten kilowatts, depending on your perspective, may or may not in fact be 'drops in the barrel' energy wise, but it's more than enough to power devices like stop lights and road signs, granted it's stored efficiently and the devices attached to it are similarly efficient.

On a well traveled road, energy that is essentially being wasted can be recaptured and used to power lights and signs for several intersections without placing any load on the local power grid. Sure, these things are pricey, but as their price decreases with time and their efficiency and output both climb, doesn't it make sense that these things just might pay for themselves? That reduces the cost of maintaining roads in the long run by cutting out virtually all energy expenses in areas that are frequently traveled - and if the system becomes efficient enough, it could cut out the energy costs for an entire community's roadways and intersections.

This isn't 'another gas tax'. This is one less reason to have gas taxes. On a highway like ol' I-69 here in Indy, a couple handfuls of these ramps could power every lighted roadside sign and traffic signal within the city of Indianapolis, with energy to spare. Higher traffic translates directly into greater energy gains. If these things are durable enough to take the punishment, they'd pay for themselves within a matter of weeks. Now let's think about even more heavily traveled roadways, like those in New York City or LA. 10 kilowatts per panel times a few thousand automobiles a day, that's megawatts and megawatts of power being generated every day. The excess could be put into the city electrical grid, however small an amount it may be by then, and used to power other things. Street lights, low-demand municipal facilities, etc... All of this from WASTE. This is an excellent idea, and I hope to see technology like this move forward.

And before anyone replies to this, no, this is not 'just another way for the government to control our cars'. I won't be concerned about that until they start installing spike strips in these things. (And with or without ramps, that could be done at every intersection anyway....) This is hardly ripping off the taxpayer, either, if a comparatively small expense saves a ton more money. Sure, right now that expense isn't small, but it'll get smaller if enough communities buy into this stuff - perhaps even going from a few thousand dollars to just a few hundred. Money in the bank, and back in our pockets, folks... No problems here.

Re:Why not induction?

[Nf1nk]

no need for name calling, here. Maxwells equation will show that you do generate some energy, after all this how metal detectors and those street sensors work. What seems to have been forgotten is how little electricity it manages to produce. The amount is detectable, but barely useful (in a non detection sense). However if you could create a large enough coil to prodce a noticable current the drag effects on the cars would begin to be noticable whne driving (a flat section would be like driving up hill) if this wasn't cost probitive it could make for safer downhill grades. Odds are a coil of this magntude would be very expensive. This machine would be cheap in comparison.

Is it safe for motorcycles?

[saturndude]

How high do the metal plates stick up from the surrounding road?

Looking at the photo, this could be quite dangerous for motorcycles or cars with low profile tires, especially at night.

Do road signs at least warn about the plates in advance?

I question how much energy my motorcycle and I (260 kg together) are really going to generate.

Solar Panels? In Britain?

[billstewart]

There are parts of the British Isles where solar panels might work. There are other parts, especially in Scotland, where using solar panels would require seeing the sun, and therefore are obviously out of the questions. The typical local description of the weather runs to "If you can see across the bay, it'll rain within 24 hours; if you can't see across the bay, it's already raining."
Sure, some parts of the year it's sunny and beautiful, but you need the streetlights to work all year around, *especially* when it's foggy, raining, and dark. So you might need some pretty big panels.

On the other hand, these ramps probably cost a big enough pile of money that it's still cheaper to use mains power than "free" power siphoned off passing cars.