Sony Announced Hybrid Digital Camera 386
Anna Merikin writes to tell us that Sony has begun shipping a new digital camera, the R1. With the R1 Sony has married the big digital SLRs' sensor with the live preview display of the compact cams. But to do so, it is not an SLR although it is about the same size as one. The new architecture also allows wider-angle optics to be used, but it does not have interchangeable lenses.
No thanks. (Score:4, Insightful)
The blurb is extremely vague and confused (Score:2, Insightful)
Interchangeable lenses (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have talked to a number of people here in Britain about the rootkit incident. Basically nobody knows about it. I had my cousins in North America ask people there, and it was the same. The vast majority of people they talked to do not have a clue as to what had happened.
While the geek community may be horrified about what has happened, the general populace in both Britain and North America most likely does not give a damn at all. They are most likely not even aware of what had happened. Thus they will continue to support Sony.
As for Slashdot covering OpenServer, there's no reason for Slashdot not to. If some news item arises involving it, then Slashdot should post it. There are still many companies around who depend on UnixWare and OpenServer. It's still a very important product, even if the company which now owns them has done much to annoy the computing community.
Re:Why Sony? (Score:4, Insightful)
I wont buy sony anymore, doesnt make their cameras poor, though I dont see the thought behind buying an SLR (ish) camera without the mirror or the switchable lenses...
Re:Why Sony? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not everyone is as into optics and cameras as you are. Sometimes people just want something that will take pictures or video, even if the quality isn't completely perfect. Not only that, they don't want to spend many pence on it.
Do you know what people do? They go down to their local electronics retailer, and buy cameras from Sony. They may not be the top of the line, but they'll work, and they may offer the best return for what is spent on them.
Sony? A new camera? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why Sony? (Score:1, Insightful)
Yeah, you know how bad those all those betacams suck and who could forget their HDC-F950. Lacking right?
Re:Why Sony? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Interchangeable lenses (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, this particular camera is a first generation of its kind and it does have some issues (most touched on in the article and the dpreview: awkward lcd placement, no closeups, crippled burst mode). But I could see myself buying this kind of camera in a few generations.
Having gotten used to the tilt-and-swivel lcd on my everyday compact, I find it very inconvenient to pick up a DSLR and having to use the viewfinder. Sure, for manual focus it makes some sense, but that is a special case I care much less about, compared to getting resonable shots from the hip or from an arms-length up above my head, or taking pictures from the ground without having to crawl on it to see where I'm aiming.
Re:So overall, the thing's a wash. (Score:3, Insightful)
This camera bridges the gap between those that would've bought something like a Canon Pro1 with an L lense, and someone buying a Rebel XT with a not so great lense. If you look at it like that, its not a bad deal. Unless it comes with some sort of rootkit.
Re:Why Sony? (Score:4, Insightful)
I wouldn't.
I would only recommend Canon or Nikon to people looking for cameras.
Sony has done nothing worth a headline here. This is pure PR - one of those planted "news" stories where some reporters got fed a story on a slow news day... maybe got sent a free camera with some marketing hype.
Move along... nothing to see here.
Re:Who cares? (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course you'll have to push past me first.
Re:SLR (Score:5, Insightful)
Digital SLRs are not "completely stupid." One major benefit is that SLR design almost entirely eliminates the "shutter lag" that is common to most other digital cameras. The top Nikon DSLRs have shutter lag of less than 40 milliseconds; compare that to many non-SLR digital cameras where you sometimes wait half a second (or longer) between when you press the shutter button and when the picture is taken.
Digital viewfinders also use up MUCH more power than SLR designs. Nikon's DSLRs nowadays have a battery life of around 2,000 shots; most cameras that use digital viewfinders can only shoot a tiny fraction of that number without requiring a new battery or a recharge.
Finally, DSLRs allow established photographers to use any of the hundreds (thousands?) of existing lenses for compatible cameras.
Certainly there's a place for cameras with digital viewfinders. But DSLRs offer unique benefits that warrant a place as well.
Re:Interchangeable lenses (Score:3, Insightful)
The Sony is the same size, weight and price range as a Canon 350D with the kit lens (a bit more, actually). It just isn't a compact camera anymore, and can't really compare to them. It throws away the huge advantage of small size entirely (which it has to do to use an APS size sensor). Apparently they also throw away other features compact users really like.
Instead it invites comparison with other cameras in the same size and price range - which are DSLRs. And from a DLSR users point of view, this is not all that compelling - in no small part because image quality is apparently not up where it should be and use of RAW format seems botched, but mostly because it lacks the flexibility of interchangeable lenses. The optics on this one is by all reviews superb. But you can't put on a really fast prime lens for nighttime photography; no real macro lens for insects or flowers; no long telephoto for sports or wildlife.
It relinquishes the benefits of a compact camera in order to compete with DSLRs on image quality. In the process, it pick up some of the same drawbacks (size and cost) but fails to incorporate any of the other benefits. And, in the end, it seems not to fully have achieved the desired image quality either.
Re:No thanks. (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps I should explain.
Hint: Sony, as a corporation, has adopted the position that they should be able to do whatever they wish to your updateable systems in order to protect their corporate interests.
My position on this is clear: That's fine. I will, quite simply, not buy *any* Sony product whatsoever until I see compelling evidence that this has changed.
This camera could give me free beer (as in FREE BEER! WOO!) and I still wouldn't buy it -- because that gives capital to a company who wants to control what my devices do, and will install, without permission, software to enable this.
So. You guys still buying Playstations can just shut up about the DRM issues. Sony certianly doesn't care about your opinions. You're still buying their stuff.
I won't. Period.
So, again.
No thanks. It's a Sony.
At least I'm still polite. Come next year (and the next rootkit DRM), it'll be "Fuck no, it's a Sony."
Re:Vital statistics (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why Sony? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So overall, the thing's a wash. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
No. But feel proud that you are another victim of F.U.D.
Sony cameras will take vitually any memory stick, including the one, very rare, model called "Magic Gate" which has some DRM in it for music. Of the 15 or so flavors of Memory Sticks, I believe that is the only one that has DRM, and again, it's only for music. You can take off your tin foil hat, Sony cameras have no method for attaching DRM to your pictures.
From a user's point of view, the only difference between a Memory Stick and a CF card in a Sony camera is the size and price.
Live preview is pointless in high-end cameras (Score:2, Insightful)
- Image quality. In a DSRL you see _with your own eyes_ whatever is going to hit the sensor, through whatever optics you've got attached. This is going to be superior to any crappy LCD, unless perhaps you're working with very low light coming through due to some weird filters, or something like that. I bet you couldn't even properly do a manual focus when neccessary if you didn't use your eyeball as a direct measuring device. My idiot cousin got one of these leet cams that actually have a fake eyepiece by having a screen behind it, and he was like laughing his ass off at my "old-fashioned" (350D) camera that didn't do the AD/DA loop between lens and his eye. Try explaining to people like that that he's just getting reduced quality... even in the debrief screen, a serious photographer is going to look at the histogram, NOT the shown image because it just doesn't tell you anything about the exposure.
- Battery life. You won't be able to keep the screen on for long before you run out of charge.
- You _need_ a proper posture to hold the camera steady when shooting, and the traditional way of doing it -- holding the camera to your eye and stabilizing against your face and body is the way to go. If you were going to shoot while looking at the back of the camera, your camera shake is going to be humongous, esp. if you've got long optics attached.
Re:Why Sony? (Score:3, Insightful)
Main drawbacks of the camera is obviously the fixed lens and not being an SLR, 24mm is not that wide of a wide angle and 120mm is not that much of a tele. Since the light hits the sensor instead of reflecting up to the eyepiece without touching the sensor it shows the scene as the camera interprets it not as with a SLR an untouched view of the scene through the lens.
Basicly you get the laggyness and limited resolution of the lcd in exchange for a picture of what the image might look as.
I got an SLR for those reasons, what I see in the eyepiece is the scene which I can interpret and the nonlaggyness of an LCD. Try finding out if an 10Mpixel image is sharp by looking at a 200k resolution LCD.
Don't buy SONY anything! (Score:3, Insightful)
Like-minded Geeks unite! Boycot those Sony scumbags who thought a rootkit was a good idea! Only the bottom line matters to them. Affect it!
Re:SLR (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why electronic viewfinders are better (Score:5, Insightful)
You've never used a camera with a good viewfinder, I'll bet. Even my Canon Digital Rebel has a somewhat sucky viewfinder, but it's so much better than any EVF could possibly be it's not even funny.
With a real viewfinder, there's absolutely no lag as you pan around. The image is perfectly sharp. Manual focus varies to not-hard with the Rebel to near-trivial with a good viewfinder. It works just fine in low light: I can set up a shot lit by a single distant candle without trouble, something truly impossible with an EVF. And on and on.
Exposure is trivial to check after the shot on the display on the back of the camera, especially with the histogram. Any camera made in the past few decades will include at least an exposure meter in the viewfinder, and modern ones will include aperture / shutter speed, shots remaining, focus confirmation points, and anything else you might want. You don't need to magnify an optical viewfinder, as it's already sharper than any EVF could possibly hope to be.
If you really want to know what an SLR viewfinder should be like, pick up a Canon 1 series (or whatever Nikon's equivalent is). Or, even better, try a rangefinder--there's few better ways to look through a camera lens than the way Leica does it.
When you've got an EVF with instant response, at least a few megapixels, and the exact same dynamic range and color rendition as the camera's sensors, we'll talk. Until then, even the best EVF isn't going to compare to a low-end SLR film viewfinder.
Cheers,
b&
Re:No thanks. (Score:1, Insightful)
Any computer that doesn't allow executable files to be launched is worthless. Blaming Microsoft for the Sony DRM debacle is exactly like blaming a woman in a short skirt for being "vulnerable" to rape. Your solution is what? Sew their labia shut in infancy?
Give me a break, and put the blame where it might actually do some good.
Re:No thanks. (Score:3, Insightful)
I won't buy an Australian built Holden Commodore because they're one of the most stolen (and poorly built) cars in the country.
That doesn't mean I blame Holden Commodore drivers for getting their cars stolen. Theives and scumbags still need to be smacked down because they're exploiting other people.
Your argument is kind of like suggesting we shouldn't have glass windows at home, because they could be exploited with a brick. Aside from that, who said the OP used Windows as an operating system? I don't need to be exploited by Sonys work to know that it sucks, why should he?
its hardware AF vs. software AF (Score:3, Insightful)
on non-slr cameras, a software routine must run that has to dump data off the entire sensor chip (basically just like the LCD lag) and analyze it to determine the focus. its speed is determined by the chip refresh rate, the main processor speed and the efficiency of the software routine.
naturally, the dedicated hardwired AF modules are much, much faster. The autofocus in a pro camera like the D2X is insanely quick and accurate.
"Quality"? (Score:2, Insightful)
WTF?
If it's a 24-120mm lens, and it doesn't weigh 10 pounds, then it can't be very fast -- f/4-f/5.6, maybe?
Zoom lenses aren't easy to make -- which means if you want to be able to zoom, you sacrifice pretty much *everything* else: speed, size, weight, quality, complexity, and so forth.
But the whole point of an SLR with interchangeable lenses is
So the whole "worth the price of the R1 alone" / "have to spend a fairly considerable sum on lenses for a D-SLR to get close to this range and the quality of the R1's lens" is ignoring the rather large restriction "has to be a zoom, at the expense of all else". (But a similar lens for my system is only $225 new, anyway.)
The R1 may be a great new camera (for its price level), but the only way you can claim that one can't cover medium-wide-angle to medium-telephoto with an SLR, affordably, is to ignore most of the best SLR lenses available.
At the risk of Godwinning the thread... (Score:1, Insightful)
No, they haven't. The SS and Gestapo did. Germany, as a large country, has various political and military factions, and not all of them are equally into the whole Final Solution thing.
(I mean, really. Sony puts their name on their equipment as a means of capitalizing on goodwill that accrues to the whole company. Since the DRM stupidity hasn't been repudiated on an executive level, all of their divisions do deserve to be tarred with the same brush.)
Re:Awesome. I'm waiting for Canon's answer! (Score:3, Insightful)
I think this is the future of photography.
I don't. The next few years will tell us who's right.
Re:At the risk of Godwinning the thread... (Score:1, Insightful)
Huh? Your analogy is right; Germany did have various political and military factions, and not everyone was aware or would have approved of the Final Solution thing. It'd indeed be wrong to claim that all Germans are evil.
As for Sony: do you really expect the executives to have understood what a rootkit is? Especially the executives of the non-electronics divisions? Please. It's not unlikely that the Music division did it off on their own, and after it was discovered, what would the other division heads do? Sony's primarily a Japanese company; it's reluctant to admit to mistakes, and divisions speaking out against each other would be considered even worse.
Re:No thanks. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's still the same corporation. Whether it happens to be different division of that corporation makes no difference. Both divisions answer to same peolle, the board of directors of Sony Corporation. The money Sony Music earns goes to Sony Corporation, and vice versa. The money Sony Electronics makes can be used to benefit Sony Music.
Do people differentiate between different divisons of Microsoft? No. When they do something stupid with Office, people say "Microsoft is at it again". When they do something stupid with Windows, they say the same thing. They do not say "Microsoft's Office-division is at it again!" or "Microsoft Windows-division is at it again!". When MS pushes
Saying "But it's not the same company, it's a different division!" is just an excuse. They are part of the same company. And you can clearly see the same bullshit attitude Sony Music has, all through the Sony Corporation. Why does Sony Electronics use some proprietary flash-RAM crap (memorystick) for example? Why can't they use compact flash or any other technology that has wider use, why do they stick to their own crap? What the hell is it with this ATRAC-crap Sony Electronics pushes? Sony as a whole is only interested at their bottom line, at the expense of the consumer.
Like the original poster said: Nice camera, but since it's by Sony, I wont be buying it. I'm drawing the line here. You fuck with me, and you can be damn sure that I'll do my business elsewhere. It's about time the corporations learn that world and people living there are not their private playground where they can do whatever they please. Sony Corporation has the power to replace the entire management of Sony Music. Untill I see them doing that, I wont be doing business with them. If they choose not to do that... Well, there are other companies willing to sell me their goods.
Sony Corporation: Go fuck yourself.
Re:I have one on the way... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No thanks. (Score:2, Insightful)
SONY is SONY. Some examples:
SONY went to court against a small restaurant named "Sony's Place". The owner had the nickname "Sony" so she thought it's _her_ nickname. Nope she was have to change name _and_ pay for "damages".
SONY is a prominent member of *IAA.
SONY uses DRM on music CDs prohibiting fair use.
SONY encrypted the raw photo files just as Nikon did so you do not own your own pictures in raw format.
SONY is a bully. I have already one Panasonic (VHS), a JVC (8mm) and a SONY (D8) camcoder. Due to their arrogance the next one definitely won't be a SONY camcoder when flashmemory-camcoders will be a bit less expensive.
At last but not least:
SONY is the head - if you call it SONY Music, SONY-BMG or whatever it is still SONY. They're taking the money so they must take the shit too anyway.
The latest XCP incident was not the first and not the last example of SONY's treatment of consumers as criminals.
I suggest look for other resources when buying anything: your wallet is your only way to vote for better alternatives!