Nintendo Revolution Controller Revealed 1210
kakos writes "At the Tokyo Game Show, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata has revealed what the Nintendo Revolution controller looks like. The new controller is a radical departure from traditional controller types. Has Nintendo struck gold with their new controller design? The reviewers seem to think so. It should be interesting to see how gamers react to Nintendo's new innovation."
Remember your roots people (Score:1, Insightful)
Truly Revolutionary (Score:5, Insightful)
The very act of being able to control things on screen with precision 'ala mouse will finally let First Person Shooters and Strategy games be played unencumbered.
Even if this controller for some reason doesn't pan out it's 100% wireless so theres no reason they couldn't always fall back on a more "traditional" controller if need be.
To those of you that get it (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't flame. Sit back, relax, and laugh.
Damn this machine is going to be fun.
iRevolution? (Score:1, Insightful)
My first pertinent reaction was something to the effect of "how odd. It'll never work."
My next thought was that Nintendo has done some interesting things, and just maybe it'll be really cool. I'll reserve full judgement until I've gotten my hands on one.
Re:First thought was: (Score:2, Insightful)
Unless the other companies whip up some controller to imitate it as they invariably have in the past.
D-Pad, Analog Stick, Rumble - All Nintendo popularized.
Left handed users? (Score:5, Insightful)
Intuitive (Score:4, Insightful)
Intuitive controls + fun gameplay = A sure bet.
Power button not a good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone remember when the neighborhood spaz would get über-pissed because he sucked at videogames and so he'd make a run to turn off the console, and a fight would ensue?
There really needs to be a way to prevent the console from being turned off remotely, or else there's going to be lots of bruises and bloody noses in homes that house both children and Revolutions.
Innovation? (Score:1, Insightful)
Radical Departures (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:First thought was: (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop and think for one minute. Why do we even have game pads today? Because Nintendo bucked the trend of everyone and their dog with joysticks and made a gamepad for the Famicom/NES. What about analog sticks? Nintendo again with the N64.
Nintendo has made dramatic changes to the way we play our games twice now, and both times the industry fell right in step behind them imitating at their first opportunity. Who's to say they aren't doing it a third time here?
I'd tend to give a game company who's been around longer than half the population of this website the benefit of a doubt.
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:2, Insightful)
great idea, if it works... (Score:5, Insightful)
One is that the main controller looks like carpal tunnel city. Admittedly, I haven't used it yet, but it looks awkward. The wrist will be under exactly opposing strains, from the thumb pushing down and the other fingers pushing up. My knowledge about wrists is mostly limited to just HAVING two of them, but when I'm holding a standard two-handed controller, it doesn't feel like the support strain is hitting my wrists too badly. It feels like it's radiated down my arm to my elbows. And the load is shared between both hands. With the new Revolution controller, the pressure is all on one hand and comes at the top of the controller. I can't help but think that the wrist will take the entire load... possibly like a lever using the wrist as a fulcrum... against itself.
It may be perfectly fine -- remember, I'm no expert here -- but I still wonder.
My other concern is how precise and repeatable the hand-gesture controls will be. It's a really superb idea, but it's going to require deployment of sensors on either side of the TV. I wonder how well Nintendo is going to handle the gamut of televisions, from 13" B&W up to 100" projection models. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but doing it right, and giving it the kind of sensitivity you have with mice and analog thumbsticks, will be very hard.
If they can get it working reliably, but it's a bit sloppy (which is my expectation), they'll need to adjust game designs quite a bit to accommodate it. But it'll give a degree of immersiveness that we will love. Practically everyone instinctively moves the controller around, trying to give their character or car an extra 'push' when they're in a tight spot... making that into an actual control mechanic is brilliant.
Upshot: I'm so there. I'll buy one when it ships. Even if it fails, at least they're really doing something NEW.
Re:Truly Revolutionary (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if this controller for some reason doesn't pan out it's 100% wireless so theres no reason they couldn't always fall back on a more "traditional" controller if need be.
Or they could make it part of a more traditional controller. There's no reason it couldn't plug into module shaped like a traditional controller. For that matter, there's no reason it couldn't plug into a steering wheel or keyboard module, either.
Re:remember when (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course it's only been a couple hours since I last played a game on that system. The quality of the games still plays a huge role in it's acceptance.
Re:Remember your roots people (Score:1, Insightful)
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers... (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree, and I think the thing that will make or break them is the question: Is it easy for 3rd parties to develop for? The article seems to say that, in practice, the idea doesn't inherently suck. Okay, so that's the first hurdle cleared. Now it's time to see if it's just as natural to develop for.
An believe you me, I sincerely hope it is.
Try looking at it in a mirror (Score:5, Insightful)
"Home" button functionality seems obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
is this a joke ? (Score:2, Insightful)
I love two handed gameplay (the addon analog stick just feels real weird) and this looks really really cramped . Every unintentional nudge or move of my wrist now would cause me change my char position ?
during gameplay i frequently change my grip and holding positions intutively without having to stop/pause the game in any way..now how do i do that ?
this has to be some kind of joke
Re:First thought was: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:4, Insightful)
Likewise, games NOT designed specifically for this controller (most games on PlayStations and Xboxes) will likely not be ported to the Nintendo console. Why would they be? They need a completely different way for the gamer to interact with it now.
Fine motor skills and FPS (Score:5, Insightful)
Your fine motor skills can be trained to a much higher degree of acumen than your whole arm/shoulder/hand.
This controller may end up being worse for FPS games than even a traditional gamepad/thumbstick, but I guess we'll find out in a year or so.
Certainly has potential (Score:5, Insightful)
The addition of the plug-in thumbstick controller with 2 additional triggers increases the control possibilities, and with enough polish it seems like using the analog stick with one's left hand for movement while simply pointing with the controller in one's right hand (or vice-versa for the lefties) could be an even more accurate and satisfying control method for first-person shooters than the mouse and keyboard or DS touch screen (and certainly light-years ahead of two analog sticks).
The key with this radically different controller really is, you guessed it, control schemes. If we didn't have the position and orientation sensors, then 2 action buttons would be paltry and anemic for anything but a turn-based strategy or RPG game, or a simple puzzler or platformer. Certainly a modern fighting, action, or sports game would suffer. BUT, using the revolution controller, motion becomes much more important than button mashing. Swinging the controller through the air like the hilt of a sword would reproduce than sword stroke in the game. Or, imagine playing a basketball game where you use just one of the revolution's buttons to hold onto the ball. You lift the controller up, move your hand to make the shot, put a little spin on it and release at just the right moment... how much would that kick the ass of any other sports game?
One issue that arises, however, is that it becomes very non-trivial to port titles from other platforms. The Revolution's controller doesn't just enable radically different control schemes... it basically necessitates them, as there aren't enough analog sticks and buttons to map a conventional control scheme on to (unless a newer Revolution game were to make use of an older gamecube controller). Nintendo will probably have to lead the way on the system with strong first-party titles.
Actually, one can look at the history of the DS as a good reference point for this: in the very beginning, we had some games that were built like glorified tech-demos. They showed off the possibilities of the new interface, but they were little more than software novelties, and there wasn't a whole lot of game underneath. Over time, however, the system built up a library of first-rate ports (Super Mario 64 DS), innovative and fun re-inventions of classic genres like the platformer (Kirby: Canvas Curse), widely appealing non-games (Nintendogs), and extremely solid games for hardcore gamers where the touchscreen and dual screens are a natural and organic part of the gaming experience (Advance Wars: Dual Strike). Now, there are dozens of great-looking DS titles on the horizon, and Internet gaming is set to take off on the system.
I think we might be looking at something similar on the Revolution. We start off with very gimmicky titles designed to get people comfortable with the new controller and wow passers-by at the local electronics store. After a while, a next-gen Mario and Zelda will start to show how old-school genres can be transformed into a new, fun experience with the new controls. Meanwhile, something like Metroid Prime 3 will hit and add a new and brilliant control scheme to the mechanics of the shooter and possibly impress a lot of hard core gamers. Seeing
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I love the power glove... (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe it's just the rabid (very, very rabid) Nintendo fanboy inside me speaking, but my God, it's beautiful. Even if I find myself mostly playing with the "nunchaku" setup the article was talking about, just the idea of having the controller split up into two, independent components (one for each hand) makes me wonder why it wasn't implemented so well before. It's as small or as big as you like it.
Re:First thought was: (Score:1, Insightful)
When the NES came out, I thought "Cool!". The controller was GOOD for the time. I didn't need convincing that it was a good idea. You could SEE it.
When the N64 came out, I though "Cool!". The controller was GOOD for the time. (I still like it better than the Gamecube and Playstation controllers). I didn't need convincing that it was a good idea. You could SEE it.
But THIS? I don't think 'cool'. I need convincing. I just don't see it.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not spending $200 or so on a new system where something as basic as the controller is questionable... I'll have to give it plenty of testing in the store
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:3, Insightful)
And as far as game libraries go, I think having access to the entire back catolog of Nintendo games going back to the NES (quite possibly those from 3rd party developers as well) could just be considered an advantage.
Re:Truly Revolutionary (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably because it's the shape that human hands are designed to hold.
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:First thought was: (Score:5, Insightful)
They put more thought into their designs than their competitors. For example, Sony's buttons are neatly arranged, but it takes a while to memorize which one is square, or whether L2 is the top or bottom one. The Gamecube controller looks odd at first glance, but you never have to stop and think about which one is the little red "B" button, or which is the vertical bean-shaped "X" button. And that's exactly why Nintendo made it that way.
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:2, Insightful)
AnandTech: comparing PS3 and 360's hardware [anandtech.com]
And in my opinion a different controller design does not seem as hard a hurdle to overcome as different design philosophies imposed by the hardware. But that last part is just IMHO.
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:5, Insightful)
I have so many questions that can only really be answered by testing one myself. Does it have to be pointed at the TV to work? (I have read there are sensors you must place on top your TV). That right there would eliminate good swordfighting. How good is the accuracy really? Does it drift? If you move the controller quickly, or hit a hard surface with it, does it lose tracking? Does the accuracy get worse as the controller suffers from wear and tear? Does it have a limited tracking space? For four players, you would need a very large tracking space, or you would be hitting each other all the time. A very large tracking space could enable some really cool single player games, too. Could you walk around and wave the controller all over, or are you restricted to sitting down while holding the controller steady in a small "zone" and pointing it at the TV? One of the reporters mentioned that if you moved out it of a certain box while playing the demos, you would have to move back before continuing.
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:2, Insightful)
The irony being that one of the Revolution's major selling points is downloadable versions of classic Nintendo games. Turn the controller sideways and it's perfect for the classic games. The same games that get re-released with EVERY Nintendo system. Do we really need another release of Excitebike?
Congratulations, Nintendo, you have successfully created a new machine with absolutely NO third-party support. I'll be looking forward to seeing you implement the unique features of the controller on yet another version of Mario Party or Warioware.
Re:I for one (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I love the power glove... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Radical Departures (Score:5, Insightful)
Like it or not, and regardless of what you think of their consoles, Nintendo has been responsible for every single important controller innovation for the last 25 years.
The original Nintendo Entertainment System dispensed with the single joystick/button and came out with the direction pad (D-Pad) - something that's still included on every single controller design today, including Sony's and Microsoft's.
The Super Nintendo Entertainment System came out with a new four button design. However, it wasn't the number of buttons that was revolutionary - it was the diamond shape that they where placed in. Again, this exact design is still being used.
For the N64 Nintendo came out with the analog control stick - which ushered in the age of true 3D gaming. Once again, everyone immediately copied their design. And once again, the analog control stick is still being used today.
Finally, for the Gamecube they came out with the "Wavebird" - the first truly well-designed wireless controller. And guess what?
Microsoft and Sony's new controllers are wireless.
Which is why I think that this new design will work - and stay around for a long, long time. Simply put, Nintendo has never ever faltered in their controller design. Their consoles, perhaps - but not their controllers. Instead, their new controller designs are almost always adapted as an industry standard nearly immediately. What's interesting about this time is that Nintendo waited until Sony and Microsoft had solidified the features on their new consoles - which means they won't be able to immediately copy them.
It still remains to be seen at how this controller will work with the current form of games coming out. However, regardless of what you think, it IS revolutionary. It will change the way games are played, and I'm extremely interested in finding out what the games for the Revolution will look like. I'm not in the ecstatic "NINTENDO RULES SUPREME AND OWNZ ALL OF YOU" camp, but I am *very* interested in what this controller means - and excited, too.
FPS Controller and other musings (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How about accelerometers (Score:2, Insightful)
While this would permit you to derive velocity/displacement, derive sounds too much like differentiate for a mathmematician.
Re:Fine motor skills and FPS (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I like the idea (Score:3, Insightful)
That's because it's pretty much impossible to produce enough force for a meaningful effect, especially in a small and battery-powered device. Furthermore, it couldn't possibly make the controller heavier or stop your sword swing in mid-air, it would only resist changes in orientation, not position. It really wouldn't work that well even if they did implement it. It would just feel kinda strange, not much at all like moving real massive objects around.
Re:Radical Departures (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Fine motor skills and FPS (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is that for geeks like you and me we are used to the wrist movement because I guess it's more natural to us. I've been trying to switch, but it's hard.
Re:How about accelerometers (Score:3, Insightful)
In fact, it seems as though the controller becomes more of a classic NES controller when this happens.
Re:yep (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Radical Departures (Score:4, Insightful)
You have just summed up this entire article perfectly.
No doubt there will be those who say they weren't actually the first. To those people - remember that Nintendo was the first company to make it work.
They key here is to remember that Nintendo knows what they're doing, they're not morons. People are making statments such as "my arm will get tired!" and "its going to limit our game control in terms of buttons!". C'mon. Seriously. You really think Nintendo hasn't thought of your thin, pasty arms getting tired?
Just look at the Gamecube controller. People complained about its goofy look, and it wasn't even a far departure from the other consoles! I ended up finding the Gamecube controller to be perhaps the most comfortable and flexible controller ever.
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:3, Insightful)
*
- think, running down the field in a new EA game, juking left and right, flipping the remote up to do a quick jump.*
imagine doing that for few hours. now imagine your wrist. now imagine the sidewinders with tilt sensors that ms had ages ago and how much 'fun' they were.
though, they DO say that you'll be able to stick this into more traditional controllers(bongos and shit).
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder if, for this reason, they'll need to make games harder. It (hopefully) will be so intuitive that the separation between the user and the game will be gone, meaning that the controller won't trip people up anymore. And that seems to be where half the challenge actually is.
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't have a Revolution controller (obviously), but I have experience with a similar device [gyration.com]. It is a gyroscopic mouse, not dissimilar from Nintendo's new controller.
I am not convinced the technology can live up to our expectations. The video looked cool, but those actors weren't actually controlling anything, and those are game concepts, not actual games. This type of technology has always been rather fiddly when you use it in real life. It will live or die based on how good Nintendo's tracking technology is, and I'm not convinced good enough tracking can be put into a durable consumer product. People's kids are going to be slamming these things, and it has to be reasonably cheap too.
They have excellent tracking, are highly intuitive, and are quite durable. You don't have to point it at a screen to work, since it uses RF, not infrared. I believe the Revolution uses a bluetooth Piconet like the PS3 and 360, but don't know for sure. The GyroRemote doesn't drift, and can be used in a lot of positions. And it's designed to be used while the user walks around and waves his hands.
Your concerns are very valid. Fortunately, none of them are insurmountable technical issues. Nintendo has a reputation for putting some good thought into most of their product design. This is probably one of the most important products they've had to design in 15 years or so, and I would believe that they are working their asses off on this.
I hope and believe your concerns will be addressed by the time the Revolution makes it to market...
Re:Just a thought (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I've read it. It's still stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
How about... encouraging kids to actually move is a good thing. Seeing how fat american kids are today, a little movement during their gaming sessions wouldn't hurt...
Re:That's not the point (Score:4, Insightful)
And yet, none of your non-gamers people ever told you that it doesn't feel natural to hold a controler with both hands, and then press one of 10 buttons to swing a sword? While it may seem pretty natural for gamers to press buttons to have your characters perform actions, I would actually think that it is more "logical" to actually swing your arm if you want to swing a sword.
Try going to a medieval fair sometime, and in one of those fake duels, locate the appropriate buttons on your sword that will make you swing it...
Re:No doubt (Score:3, Insightful)
Listen: It's not a remote control. It only looks like one.
You control the game by swinging this thing (remote controls can't do that).
This functionality might be nice for games like Soul Calibur, Resident Evil (finally, the chainsaw controller could make sense).
The article also says you can fit this thing into another controller, to play more conventional games (or get a 3rd party "standard" controller for 10 bucks).
Re:Certainly has potential (Score:4, Insightful)
As for third party support, I'm optimistic. It won't have the deluge of stuff like the PS2 had, but I think there's enough people out there that will be fascinated enough with this device to pursue some ideas. Nintendo has been talking up how they want to make the Revolution easy to develop for, so hopefully they'll get that right. Ideas are easier to come by than budgets, so if they can make the cost of developing a game low relative to the other consoles (which reportedly cost a sizable fortune to make games for), it should be appealing for developers.
Like other commenters have noted, I think Nintendo's sort of resigned itself to having lost the hardcore gamer market. They hardly targeted it with the Gamecube and the DS, and they seem content to let Sony and MS beat each other senseless over it. We'll end up with two incredibly powerful and expensive systems playing basically the same types of games, standing next to Nintendo's more modestly priced system with a library full of exclusives and very different games. It's like that basically with the current generation. As soon as I got an Xbox, I didn't really have much use for my PS2 anymore. But the gamecube gets plenty of time, because the games are so unique. No matter how much you love the PS3, no matter how much better you think it is than the Xbox360, you'll still have plenty of reasons to get the Revolution.
There's really only two ways that I see this generation playing out. First off, either Sony or MS completely dominates the other, and Nintendo earns a healthy second place. Or Sony and MS basically split their part of the market and Nintendo earns a healthy third place, selling just as many units as in the other scenario. Basically, Nintendo is trying to set it up so that their success or failure is unconnected to Sony or MS's actions. While there's certainly overlap in the market, Nintendo is trying to escape from that in two ways: Appeal to new gamers, and offer a different experience to the more hardcore among us.
It's a different attitude. I think if MS visited your living room and saw an Xbox360 sitting next to a PS3, they'd be disappointed. If Nintendo came in and saw a Revolution sitting next to a PS3, they'd be mostly indifferent, maybe ask you if there's any good games on that system. Sony and MS are out to kill each other, Nintendo's just here to sell games.
Re:Truly Revolutionary (Score:2, Insightful)
I can imagine a wheel controller without the mounting base on it, with paddle shifters on the backside. You just hold it out in front of you, turn it, push out to accelerate, pull back to decelerate. No expensive sensors needed, it's all in the revolution controller module. You need something to connect the paddle shifters to the a/b buttons, but that's no biggie. I seem to remember the article also mentioned that the controller supported force feedback as well.
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:4, Insightful)
Uh... yes, they were. And then they handed the controllers to members of the press, who also controlled things.
"and those are game concepts, not actual games."
They weren't showing off games, they were showing off the controller. They were there to demonstrate that the controller worked and how well. According to first-hand press reports, they did the job.
"This type of technology has always been rather fiddly when you use it in real life."
So have wireless controllers. Then the WaveBird came out. Of course, non-Nintendo wireless controllers still have the habit of sucking...
"People's kids are going to be slamming these things,"
Ignoring for the moment the history of durability of Nintendo hardware, "so?" Peoples' kids won't be the only ones using these things.
"and it has to be reasonably cheap too."
Console + 1 controller will have a price point of $200, much like the GameCube was. An extra controller's price will probably resemble the WaveBird's.
FUD much?
Re:Just remember, moderators: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:1, Insightful)