When Should You Buy Your Kid A Laptop? 856
GuitarNeophyte writes "Marketwatch News reports that some people say that we should be buying our kids laptop computers well before they get into the higher education realm. Even as early as middle school. From the article: 'These days, it's almost unquestioned that college-bound students will tote laptops back to school. For parents of high school and middle school kids, the decision to invest in a laptop is far from given.'"
When they can afford one (Score:1, Insightful)
Easy Answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Until then; you get an abicus, son.
Thats easy (Score:5, Insightful)
keep their monitor in view (Score:5, Insightful)
Giving them a laptop to take to their friends' houses is just inviting them to access all sorts of nasty stuff.
The best possible choice? Set up your offspring's computer(s) in your own home office. What you loose in distraction, you'll gain in piece of mind and time spent with them.
not too soon (Score:4, Insightful)
what question should be asked is "when is a good time to start using a laptop in the context of my kids wider education" and I think that comes way after being able to write and read and do math and critically think what they read and not before
Oh please (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think ANY child should be given free acess to a spellchecker until he or she can read and write at a college level. It's meant to allievate your work, not do it for you.
If laptops only were not so fragile (Score:2, Insightful)
As soon as possible? (Score:2, Insightful)
But you know your child. How does he/she treat other pieces of expensive equipment in the home? If your kid treats your $xxx stereo system with respect, it's probably appropriate to give him a laptop. Just make sure to either get an iBook, or put some really solid anti-virus / anti-spyware software on the thing.
Old Fashioned (Score:5, Insightful)
My children will not have their own laptop until they get to about 10th grade.
Why? They need the basics, read, writing, and math. Having a computer just makes them more dependant on the spell checker, the calculator, etc.
Maybe it's just an unspoken myth, but computers don't make you smarter. Having access to loads of information doesn't make you smarter.
Good study habits, excellent reading skills, solid math and logic will get them to where ever they want to go.
Disclaimer. I use a computer all day as a system admininistrator/programmer. I enjoy using computers, but they don't make me smarter.
Re:Worked for me (Score:5, Insightful)
& as far as laptops for college? Unnecessary. I hated it when people were play solitaire in front of me while the prof was attempting to teach.
When they are mature enough to care for it (Score:3, Insightful)
If your student loses their cell phones, can't drive a car within the confines of the law, or cannot maintain good study habits then save your money. If they have the aspirations and act on them within their capabilities then by all means get them a laptop if it truly benefits them at the time.
Re:Worked for me (Score:5, Insightful)
I had a laptop for a bit in high school, purchased used with my own money. It was fun, no doubt, but it wasn't something I really made full use of until college & work. That's when the portability of a laptop really kicked in as a necessity for me. Do students really need that kind of portability?
At any rate, I do agree with the notion of having a computer instead of an xbox or PS2 - at least, that's worked for me. Of course, a lot of friends had gaming consoles so I could just mooch off of them
Re:Worked for me (Score:5, Insightful)
The only way for the kid to really grasp the value of his new laptop is if he works his ass off all summer to earn the money to buy it himself.
Why do they need laptops?? (Score:2, Insightful)
We should teach kids using the pen and paper method. First teach how its done before we give them a tool to do it for them. I personally won't buy my child a laptop (recertified or new) until they are responsible enough to care for it.
Buying a laptop vs. buying a computer (Score:3, Insightful)
With the affordability of laptops I opted to purchase my child one as opposed to an Xbox or PS2. My thinking was it allowed him not only to play games, but also familiarize himself with the keyboard, internet, word processing program, etc.
Which is great, but does he carry it back+forth to school and/or use it during class? I believe that's the more specific topic under discussion. From the article:
But with laptop prices coming down, children's demands heating up and parents' urge to provide all they can to further their child's education, it's likely more families are toying with the idea of buying portable computing devices for their kids.
The headline should probably read "When Should Your Kid Start Using a Laptop in School?" or similar.
Re:keep their monitor in view (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously, I think you are exactly right. Kids don't need internet access in their rooms. I don't have kids yet, but when I do I certainly don't want them thinking Tubgirl is normal. I don't think I would mind having a computer in their bedroom to write papers with, upgrade, etc..., but it certainly won't have access to the net.
As for laptops, I don't think kids ever need them. When they are young, they probably won't take very good care of it. When they get older and go off to college, a desktop is much safer. A laptop is just begging to get stolen. When I was in college I knew too many people who had text books stolen because they left their rooms unlocked while they went down the hall for 2 minutes. A laptop is just as easy to slip into a backpack as a text book.
Re:Oh please (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:keep their monitor in view (Score:3, Insightful)
One one side people scream up and down that the parents should know what games there kids are playing and what movies they are watching. The other side screams censorship when a parent tries to take some responsibility.
Keeping track of what you kids do on the internet IS RAISING YOUR CHILD PROPERLY!
Economic divide (Score:2, Insightful)
Another issue from TFA, "make sure your child's school will support the use of the laptop in classes, and find out whether the student can connect the laptop to the school's network."
This is HUGE, education costs are tremendous for the system: besides the standard fees associated with employee pay, materials, fuel for buses, maintenance, etc, there are the facility costs -- electricity, heating, network bandwith. If every student could afford a laptop electric bills would go up. My school's network get very sluggish just during the normal day, I can't imagine if 1000 students plugged in too. We don't have the resources to upgrade to that capacity.
Re:Worked for me (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, normally I would agree but in the case of my laptop, which was purchased 12/1996 for the sole purpose of me bringing it to college (tight spaces for desktops) 8/1997, I have to disagree.
My laptop was about $3600 at the time. I fully understood the true value of the device and the sacrifice my parents made to make it a reality for me...
My proof? It remains in full working order to this day on my coffee table in my living room -- relegated to web browsing and SSH and plugged into the wall for power (the battery started keeping a charge for less than two minutes in 2002).
Just because I didn't "work my ass off all summer" for it doesn't mean I wasn't able to appreciate it and care for it properly.
Re:Old Fashioned (Score:5, Insightful)
It drives me up the wall seeing posts like the parent. If you have kids that are driven to learn, they WON'T take the easy way out, they will voluntarily learn on their own (on top of school, assuming you have good teachers and such). You aren't forcing your kid to learn, you are restricting his/her ability to learn!
But what do I know, I was just someone that grew up with computers and never lost the art of learning.
Re:keep their monitor in view (Score:2, Insightful)
As for the whole thing about kids never sharing a real name and address because they might get stalked, or something, just remember that stalkers are more likely to pick their neighbor's children than ones that are inconveniently located somewhere else.
In conclusion, if you think the internet is too dangerous for children, then you should never let your child or yourself get inside a motorized vehicle.
Re:keep their monitor in view (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Worked for me (Score:5, Insightful)
And for every ten folks that has a laptop, maybe one brings them to class. The ones that do it for solitaire would be unlikely to pay attention in class even if there was no laptop. OTOH, I've got friends that swear to using tablet PCs as notetaking devices.
Too much focus on the tech.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Second quote that stuck out for me:
Wow. I have an army of teachers that prayed I kept my inside/outside classroom behavior to a minimum (let's say the principal and I got to know each other really well). I am a staunch supporter of separation of duties - much like in the work place. I work from 8-5, and anything beyond that is my time. I am talking boundaries here people!I don't see what is wrong with a computer lab just being a computer lab, and a classroom being a classroom. If things become too blurred with computer technology then we are going to loose basics in the classroom: spelling, basic math by hand, structured thought, and a respect for authority and setting.
Grow up. (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe you should pay more attention to the lecture instead of what your fellow students are doing? As for kids not needing to be exposed to the Internet, just when do you think someone should learn about this new fangled Interweb thingy? Or would you like them to disrupt your game playing on your machine to do homework?
Re:Worked for me (Score:5, Insightful)
Laptops are useful, but, as with everything in college, it's up to the student to use them responsibly. If you're the type that will automatically fire up solitaire when the laptop is on, you shouldn't have one or should keep it off during class.
Re:keep their monitor in view (Score:3, Insightful)
They'd better be geniuses you can dump through all th extra-curricular activities they can stand until they win some awards.
Re:Never (Score:3, Insightful)
What's wrong with a desktop? (Score:3, Insightful)
I've been suffering for over a year now with a serious upper back repetitive stress injury. I'm only in my early twenties. But I've been intensely using computers since I was 8 years old, and in the past 3 years I've been using a laptop in a very poor posture (kept far in front of me, hunched with my arms outstreched forward and wrists sitting on desk). RSI is something that accumulates over a decade or more of bad computer use. Muscles become gradually more clenched and static without at first being painful, and once you start feeling symptoms several years after the abuse started, it's already too late. As more and more children become computer addicts my situation is going to become increasingly common.
So when I have a kid, the last thing I want to do is give him a laptop as his main computer. I'm giving him a desktop, adjusting it properly and teaching him about the importance of good posture and taking regular breaks. If he must have a laptop, then I'm getting one with a detachable screen and additional external keyboard. Abandoning the convenience and coolness of laptops seems to me like a small price to pay to avoid serious injury.
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Thats easy (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Worked for me (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Worked for me (Score:5, Insightful)
i am amazed at the number of computer illiterate 18-22 year olds on campus. i would guess at half of that population, easy.
Re:Worked for me (Score:3, Insightful)
I bought a laptop when I went to college, and it was an immense help. That may because I had the disciplain not to play solitaire in class. But that's a matter of disciplain, not technology.
Re:Old Fashioned (Score:2, Insightful)
If schools would spend more time teaching the basics instead of focusing on things like "diversity" and "sensitivity" training, kids would do much better. You'd also see a drop in cases of so-called "diseases" like ADD/ADHD.
Re:Old Fashioned (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Worked for me (Score:5, Insightful)
I tried using a laptop to take notes at one point. It just doesn't work. A notepad and paper are FAR superior to a laptop for taking notes. The computer is just a distraction. That's it.
Actually, I went through several computer "aids" for taking notes. The first was an iPaq. You just can't enter information fast enough (think, scrolling, botched text recoginition, poor tactile feedback as a "pen") to effectively take notes compared with a notepad. The largest problem, though, was that most classes involved diagrams or notations that you simply can't do on an iPaq as fast as you can on a notepad. There's just not enough room.
So I got a keyboard attachment, since I can touch-type at something like 50WPM or something. (I haven't bothered measuring, it's a wild guess.) This helped with the text parts of notes, but it utterly failed for every class except history. The only reason it worked for my history class was because history involved taking down a LOT of text notes. (And the only diagrams in that class were timelines, which you can "fake" by just writing "Year: Event" on each line.)
I also tried using a full-fledged laptop in a CS course. It's also completely ineffective due to the "diagram" issue. CS courses aren't all code - most of them involve decision trees or logical tables or some other graphical representation of a concept. (Try drawing a finite state machine using only text. It just doesn't get the message across as effectively as pen and paper.)
The laptop was useful on campus - but not in class. In class, it was only a distraction. It was insanely useful between classes where you might get an hour off and sit down somewhere and do some homework without wandering back to the dorm.
Don't get a laptop with the theory it's going to help you in class. It won't. That doesn't mean it can't help you in college at all, but if you try and use it during class, it'll just wind up being a distraction.
Except in history class. :)
The Safety Issues Are Real (Score:3, Insightful)
Kids and teens love to chat, they love to blog, and they innocently expose a ton of personal information about themselves in blogs and chatting.
You may have told them not to give out their full name or address, but predators can learn identities using lots of other information: school names, team names, friends names, names of parks and malls and other places they like to hang out. Just as social engineering is used by phishers to get password or cc info from adults, it gets used by sexual predators to manipulate kids and teens into trusting the predators.
And I think most of you probably remember feeling like you could handle a lot more than those stupid controling adults thought you could, back when you were in in high school.
That combination of factors is what has teenagers, especially girls, make a shocking number of bad decisions about meeting people IRL who they've only met online.
Having your computer in a central location in your house isn't a foolproof way to protect your kids; there is no such thing. But if the computer is in the living room, you can see if your kids' behavior changes, if they get suddenly secretive about what's on the monitor, for example.
And then you can have a conversation with them about it and figure out whether or not you should be worried.
Different parents will make different choices on that front -- maybe you aren't worried about your teen checking out some naughty pictures, but maybe you are worried about her looking at violent rape fantasy sites or about his unwillingness to tell you who new people on the buddy list are....
Maybe you have a relationship with your kids where the conversation and reviewing what's acceptable at your house is all that is needed. Or maybe you decide to restrict computer use, or install parental controls software, or monitor the history & temp internet files -- all those choices make sense for some families and wouldn't work in others.
But paying attention to what your kids are doing with their time and who their doing it with, that's critical for parenting, and harder to do for a kid with a laptop in their room than a kid using the computer in a public part of the house.
Do they really need one? (Score:3, Insightful)
I decided to get a new desktop machine at home and kept my home dir in school in sync with a folder at home using unison [upenn.edu]. That worked great in both the WinXP and Red Hat environment that the school is using.
Re:Answer: In Cobb County, they won't have to! (Score:3, Insightful)
I hope it fails--not because I'm a luddite or anything, or because I dislike Apple, or because I think that this particular case is badly planned--but because I think that technology should not be central to an academic education. Technology is a tool, and students should be taught how to use it, but any time you make the tool central to the process, the real goals tend to become obscured. They'll spend time teaching kids how to use the laptop instead of teaching them how to read and think critically.
Additionally, I think the pervasive presence of spellcheckers which would come with such a program should be avoided at all costs. If the kids are to be taking notes on these laptops, they should be doing it in a program which offers no spelling help--MS Word and other programs which automatically correct common mistakes without even notifying the user are particularly bad, because it reinforces those mistakes.
Why not let the kid buy it? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Worked for me (Score:5, Insightful)
Try doing any of that with pen and paper, even if you can write fast enough to keep up with the professor and still read your own writing.
As to the actual point of this article - buying laptops for kids in high school or earlier - I am not a fan of the idea, for a lot of reasons. But the one that I'm going to mention right now is this: High schoolers are, on average, less mature than college kids are, and tend to lose and break anything that's remotely portable. It's bad enough that they're out crashing the family car, don't send them out with a $2,000 laptop to bust up, too. Your kids can use your "family PC." Kick them off if you need it. If they want their own computer, they should buy one. It's a really good time to learn priorities and responsibility, and you shouldn't spend money to deprive them of the opportunity.
An obvious moment brought to you by Slashdot (Score:3, Insightful)
How about "when they're mobile"? I have a stepson (I won't say how old he is or what stage of life he's in, it's not necessary.) He's definitely not mobile yet. He spends most of his time in the house here, and he has internet access and a very nice machine.
Now it doesn't matter if he's 8 or 18... he really doesn't need one. If mobility becomes part of his life, he's going places (let's say he were to graduate and go off to college), a laptop might come in handy. Mobility often in this country is coupled with responsibility. You usually are going places (literally) when you have much to do and much responsibility.
When does a child need a car? Or a chainsaw? Well when they need to drive or cut wood. I'm sure each parent can answer the questions differently.
I think the mentality that your child will do better in school because they have a laptop is ridiculous. Sort of like buying them Nike sneakers will make them Micheal Jordan (or whomever). If they need and deserve it, you will know.
Laptops are not necessary (Score:2, Insightful)
Laptops are nice. They are cool. They are sometimes useful. But, for most people, they are simply not necessary.
When did having a computer, and now a laptop, stop being seen as a privledge?
My advice: they can have a laptop when they can pay for one (maybe meet them dollar for dollar). Thats how i got my first comp; got a job, and worked for it. And what i payed for that thing, before inflation, is a good bit more than what a mid-range lappy will cost.
If the kid wants it badly enought, they'll work for it. If they dont care for it that much, they wont. If they want it and wont work for it, they suck and/or you are a bad parent. Period.
note: i understand that it isn't the easiest thing for kids to get jobs, especially if they are under 14, but if you look you'll usually find people who will hire kids for occasional but regular odd jobs that pay under the books. Alternately, you can set up a system by which they can earn credit towards their laptop or other large purchase.
Re:Worked for me (Score:2, Insightful)
If you live in a dorm room and are not in a major directly related to computers, I would highly recommend a laptop. They take up less space, a commodity in a dorm room or even a college apartment. They also make it easier to have a computer when a group meets since they are portable. Many people in school don't use a computer for gaming so a laptop will suffice. Even if they do want a computer for gaming, you can find laptops capable of gaming for about $1200 (HP's 17in screem model). For non-gamers, a laptop cam be as cheap as $600.
As far as upgrading, a desktop is nice but most people don't upgrade their machines. Most people that read slashdot do but most others don't. Non-computer people will want to upgrade after 3-4 years because their computer is 'slow'. At that time, a new machine is about the same price as the upgrades that they need or want.
Re:Worked for me (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bullies (Score:3, Insightful)
give them old computers (Score:3, Insightful)
iBooks for $50 next week in Richmond, VA (Score:3, Insightful)
They're selling the county's inventory of 1000 iBooks for $50 each. Limit one per person, and you do have to be a Henrico resident (or know one
http://www.henrico.k12.va.us/ibooksale/ [k12.va.us]
Re:Bullies (Score:1, Insightful)
Worse, you still are letting them control your behavior, and advising others to do the same. Do you call them up today and ask what you should wear to work?
Teach your kids to stand up for themselves and not let others control them. Bullies will move on to easier prey if their victim constantly fights back, literally and/or figuratively.
Make them get their own. (Score:3, Insightful)
Shangrila (Score:2, Insightful)
Same time you buy him/her a car (Score:2, Insightful)
I was raised to work for the things I want. It's not like my parents couldn't buy me car, or buy me a computer, or pay for me to go to school, but they wouldn't. I'm doing the same for my kids.
I bought my first PC my last year of high school (1998). I had a family PC I could use before then. I bought my first car after my first year of college. I bought my first house after my fourth year of working full time.
My parents didn't buy me anything and although I hated them for it at the time, I really appreciate it today.
How it worked for me... (Score:4, Insightful)
The way it always worked was it was the FAMILY computer, not mine (though I was the only one really using it). This meant it had to be in an accessable room (i.e. not my bedroom) and I couldn't lock away any files on it or bar anyone else from any part of the PC for any reason. I also had to turn over the computer whenever anyone had a real need for it. This was basically a zero-privacy deal where what I was doing on the computer could be checked at a moment's notice.
I was caught surfing porn once. I was told that if I was caught again, it would be the end of computer and net access for a LONG time to come. The rule basically was if they caught me doing something bad, that was my first and only warning. The PC was not mine, the connection was not mine, I had to share it and be open to inspection whenever they felt like it.
I was still able to strip the thing down, rebuild it and learn all the ins and outs of it. But I knew I there were risks and concequences to doing "bad" stuff. My parents were able to keep an eye on my activities without keeping me from learning. THey were also aware of all the violent video games I played, they knew because they had to take me out to buy it, and they'd come up and watch me play every now and then.
It was the correct balance (IMO) of parental responsibility and child freedom. I don't think it's a good idea to give a young kid their own laptop and send them off to their rooms. It's too easy for them to get lost in the bad stuff, and too hard for the average parent to monitor. If I someday have kids, there will be a family PC setup in the same room as my equipment. The kids will have largely free reign over it, but it won't be hidden from sight, they'll know what is and isn't allowed and the consequences will be clearly outlined.
Also, I know I took much better care of my computer equipment once I had to earn the money to buy and maintain it. When it was given to me by my parents, I just sort of took it for granted.
Re:Grow up. (Score:3, Insightful)
Your logic is a maze of twisty passages that only a Bush Administration official could navigate, so let me simplify it for you. Playing games in class shows no effort to concentrate on the lecture while distracting other people. Being distracted by games being played by other people means you are at least trying to concentrate.
Re:Bullies (Score:2, Insightful)
Your POW comment is unrelated. A POW has the responsibility to survive, and to escape if possible. Nothing to do with schoolkids and bullying.
1) True, no argument. I will point out that they have the same tactical problems.
2) If you make repeated reports to the principal and/or local police of assault, intimidation, vandalism, and theft, eventually they are going to have to deal with it. Or with the lawsuit you can bring against the school district when you finally get hurt or have a laptop stolen, and there is a clear paper trail history of reports they ignored.
3) Then why aren't they getting detention/suspension? Oh yeah, because you never report them, and it's easier to ignore. This, at worst, is a draw because you both end up punished.
4) Have you ever seen "Shawshank Redemption"? The idea is not to win. It's to make it such a pain in the ass that they will move on to easier prey. If every time they mess with you they know they will end up in a fight and getting hurt, they'll give up.
And when I say "fight", this can mean non-physically. If they get reported every single time they look at you sideways, sure, they'll call you lots of names. But eventually, it'll just not be worth it to be in the principal's office for the fiftieth time.
If you can fight back at least somewhat, then this advice aplies: they will not be in a group forever unless they all live together and take the same classes. Find the one you can beat, and take them on one on one when they're alone.
5) Can't help you there, but where is that mighty parental wrath when this shit is happening?
6) Weapons are a bad idea, period. But if your assailants are armed, you are a complete asshat not to report it. That's not bullying any more, it's assault with a deadly weapon. Are you just going to ignore it? Can you live with yourself when they end up using it on someone else?
Dead on with the adult comment. I got bullied a bit in school, and learned to become invisible. Not really the best approach...I find that in the present I do almost anything to avoid confrontation as a result.
However, most school encounters are not the same as adult ones. Teenagers are not fully developed physically, mentally, morally or ethically. That's why there are different rules for them.
Re: Worked for me (Score:2, Insightful)
They simply refuse to treat their kids as equals...
But should parents treat their children as equals? There's an implicit pecking order in a parent-child relationship until a child proves that he or she is mature enough to be treated as an adult.Responsibility should be granted as it is earned, in my opinion. Overall, I agree with your opinion, but sometimes the equality thing can be taken a bit too far.
every single time... (Score:3, Insightful)
having a laptop in class never really helped me. sure, i could type up notes, but i don't take many to begin with anyhow. i found that in the majority of my classes, i ended up using pen and paper anyway, as a math/cs major. diagrams, flow charts and little visiual queues greatly out numbered raw code that was generated in my classes.
now, the one technological advance that would benefit EVERY STUDENT, 100%, no matter their computer literacy, typing speed, course load or distraction threshold, is a simple, affordable ebook reader. make the viewable screen 8x10 or 11, use e-paper [parc.com] so it can run for months on a set of watch batteries and pad the living shit out of it so it'll be more durable. distribute recquired school texts as PDF on CF cards and you've just solved one of the biggest problems in american schools: students who have to lug 50lbs of text with them throughout the day because they don't have time between periods to stop off at dormrooms/lockers for the next round.
this is where the inovation should be. add a simple input interface and you could have information cross referenced between documents and suppliments. figure out how to make ultra-low energy draw wifi cards and you could link them to a national database for easy inquiries on specific topics. hell, you could have two models, the Standard that displayed and cross-referenced the info on the CF card, and the deluxe that allowed the user to "take notes" and link it to a specific page of a text (to accommodate those of us who like to write in the margins). if you had one of these designed like a portfolio with one screen on either side of the fold you could make one side the "book" side and the other the "note" side..
we're really missing the boat on this one, folks. students in general don't need full fledged laptops. all they need is an easy and convenient way to read and reference text.
in this scenario, they students who would truly benefit from laptops could still have one. but i'm willing to bet that the percentage of stuents nowadays who could really use a laptop to broaden their education to be around 5-7%, no greater than 15%. the rest would either use it in the fashion i describe for the e-book or use it to dick around in class while the teacher isn't looking..
read thru a couple hundred replys (Score:2, Insightful)
What i haven't seen is the issue of actually carrying it around.
Haven't many schools discontined issuing lockers?
Would your kid really want to lug this around along with the 25lb of textbooks ?!? How do physically carry it if your backpack is full? Carrying it seperately won't cause an issue with the kid banging it into things?
All that, plus the obvious issues of theft and oversight of use, seems a questionable idea to me. Get them a desktop. Put it next to yours if trust is an issue.
If they completely replaced books with computers, great. But that's not what is addressed here. I am guessing the textbook companies would charge you full price for an ebook and DRM it to death anyways.
Re:Worked for me (Score:1, Insightful)
When you mentioned social promotion, I assumed you meant passing 6th-graders to 7th grade even though they can't read on a 5th grade level. This is a complex issue, which may reflect as much on society as on our schools. If this isn't what you meant, let me know.