UEFI Formed to Replace BIOS 422
anonymous cow-herd writes "Businesswire reports that several leading technology companies including Intel, AMD, Microsoft, IBM, Dell and HP and others have formed the Unified EFI Forum. The non-profit corporation will assume responsibility for the development and promotion of the EFI specification, a pre-boot interface originally developed by Intel that is intended to replace the aging PC BIOS."
What about Apple? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Cue CmdrTaco's OpenBoot Troll (Score:5, Interesting)
If USB could figure out driverless storage, I'm sure the rest of the industry can. How many different ways of defining storage can there be?
Networking too. I'm sick of device drivers. Sick I tell you! And not just because I run Linux. I've got an IBM T41 laptop, and trying to figure out which of 18 Windows ethernet/wifi configurations the thing came configured with is pissing me off.
Sceptical... (Score:5, Interesting)
What's wrong with the PC BIOS anyway? Give or take a few gremlins when new technologies are first introduced, the basic tech seems to have adapted remarkably well for a very long time. Since flashable BIOS technology is now routine, even the early adopter problems don't seem like that great an issue. What's the replacement supposed to offer as an advantage over tried-and-tested, apart from a few buzzwords?
On a more sinister note, there's no mention in TFA of DRM and the idea of "trusted" computing, but I can't help wondering whether this isn't one of the main aims behind the scenes, given who's supporting this new organisation.
Re:UEFI, please read this. (Score:4, Interesting)
The SGI Indy boot PROM monitor. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Cue CmdrTaco's OpenBoot Troll (Score:5, Interesting)
Leaders of OF should send EFI a letter. The worst they can say is "you're not welcome." But then everything will be right out in the open, won't it?
TW
Re:Apple (Score:4, Interesting)
Is there really any doubt whether Apple will use EFI in their machines?
Yes. You'll note that they're not listed [uefi.org] as a member. Not invited? Not interested? Working on something else? Will they just license the developed tech from Intel? Who knows. But it's interesting that Dell is there but Apple is not.
Re:Cue CmdrTaco's OpenBoot Troll (Score:5, Interesting)
they didn't.. and defined a standard 10 times larger than OF, doing approximately the same
if we (the OF people) join them, the best that could happen is a combined standard 11 times larger than OF - not wise.
Re:Hmm... wolves among the sheep... (Score:3, Interesting)
Time to stock up... (Score:3, Interesting)
20 years from now there will be a huge market for "free" computers that don't have EFI/DRM built into the system. Of course by then it will be illegal to connect a non EFI/DRM system to the Internet. But a persitant group of hackers will devise numerous methods to mask "free" computers from the corporate Internet police (CIP) which routinely scan all systems connected to the Internet looking for non-compliant systems. And in further efforts to eliminate the hacker menace the new EFI standards will be designed to scan a computers hard drives looking for signs of any activity deemed illegal by the CIP. This of course leads to several people having their doors knocked down and flash bangs thrown through the windows as the CIP confiscates their systems when they find more than a few dozen mp3 files on the users computer systems which don't have proper DRM tags.
Many more people will have their systems confiscated and accounts frozen when their computers report back that they used certain terms in IM sessions and email such as "she was the bomb last night!"
Of course the system will omit everything but the term "bomb".
Re:Cue CmdrTaco's OpenBoot Troll (Score:3, Interesting)
OpenFirmware is clearly a better alternative but it reeks of IBM and that scares most of the companies mentioned..
Use a Mac (Score:5, Interesting)
Four examples:
-Hold down a key at startup to boot from CD/DVD.
-Hold down a different key at startup to boot from a network volume (if available).
-Hold down another different key at startup to give you a menu of all bootable volumes, and boot from the one you want-- external, internal, it doesn't matter.
-Hold down yet another different key at startup to have the machine act as an external hard drive.
The features above make troubleshooting a wayward, non-booting Mac a breeze, and they come in very handy at other times as well. If you encounter a non-booting Windows PC, you almost always need another computer nearby to effectively troubleshoot and fix it.
Ever since Apple announced the move to Intel, I've been a little worried about losing those features-- but I'm hopeful that they will find a way to keep them alive on Intel-based Macs.
~Philly
Re:The SGI Indy boot PROM monitor. (Score:3, Interesting)
Being green as I was, I asked, "Does that have the SCSI controller on it?"
"Yes," the tech answers, "along with just about everything else."
Now, what arrived by FedEx was indeed basically a new motherboard, complete with processors, etc. Slide the old one out, the new one in, back in business in about a half hour (most of that because the entire lab was watching and I didn't want to screw up). I have to say I was impressed that the machine was able to diagnose itself down to a level lower than what could be replaced in the field.
The moral of the story is that, boot diagnostics are cool because you spend less time on the phone. I've never had such an experience with a PC, where if you're lucky you get a couple LEDs. I guess that's what you get for $30k.
Remember USB? (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple and EFI (Score:1, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:UEFI, please read this. (Score:4, Interesting)
The Otherside of DRM (Score:2, Interesting)
I think what the anti-DRMs need to do is change their focus. Compromise with the big companies over DRM ensuring us common folk good Fair-Use laws. Then everyone will be happy.
Re:You can simply circumvent it... (Score:3, Interesting)
Nor will I use any app that DRM's its files..
Re:Use a Mac (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm seriously thinking about switching to Mac, but since the Mac came out, I've been amused by people saying things like "See, no difficult menus and words to read, you just press System+Open-Apple+backspace+q to switch modes! So much easer and intuitive!" People can convince themselves of anything, especially if they're trying to be counter-culture or are defending their choices.
As far as features working on intel-based machines, anyone who's had even a little programming experience should know that the processor doesn't matter; you can do whatever you want on whatever CPU you have, the only difference will be suitability to certain tasks (as in, how fast can it do the things that make what you want to do fast and efficient, like matrix transforms, vector math, fast I/O, memory blitting, etc). Any modern CPU can do anything any other modern CPU can do, just at different speeds for different tasks.
Re:Ignorance is bliss.... (Score:2, Interesting)
A thousand times? Is it really *that* hard right now? It seems like EFI is basically just moving GRUB from the MBR into a bit of flash rom, then adding DRM to make sure I'm not trying to boot an OS the EFI chip doesn't approve of.
This means that Linux can be installed without breaking the existing installations or screwing with the boot loader at all. The DRM is a problem but there is not too much information about if there is going to be a lot of DRM in this new bios replacement.
I can do all of this with existing technology. And without DRM. You imply that people having doubts in regards to this technology have those feelings out of ignorance, yet you yourself say that "...there is not too much information...there is going to be a lot of DRM..."
So, basically, we should be exicited that a number of tech companies want to replace a working technolgy with a version, which while it may work marginally better, will also prevent us from using and controlling the use of our machines as we see fit? Now *that's* ignorance.
Re:Cue CmdrTaco's OpenBoot Troll (Score:2, Interesting)
PC industry is filled with crippled hardware. Only if people knew the quality of what they buy...
It is quite showing that OF is adopted only by Sun & Apple: both well know for quality harware with good record. Companies not afraid to respond to customers claims. And frequently responding.
Additionally, from rumors I have heard, EFI is designed madularly, and modules basicly can be any kind of binary blobs. So EFI will improve nothing on side of BIOS - it will remain closed source, and will quite quickly end-up being fix for every hole system might potentially have. Just like BIOS.
After all, all those magic stuff they promise, can be as easily implemented on top of modern BIOS. There is no technical problems as it is. *NO* *TECHNICAL* *PROBLEMS*. Many companies have source code for BIOS. Just sit down and do it. Just like IBM did with Slimline Open Firmware - stripped down version of OF, sufficient to boot Linux on JS20 blades.
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/libra
P.S. From what I have heard about BIOS developement, it is low amount of flash which is problem: normally installed on PCs is only 64k. That's the problem - not BIOS itself. EFI I'm sure will mandate something like 1MB minimum of flash - after all the prices are now so much lower. But still as it stands: there is no un-solvable problem with BIOS.
Re:Cue CmdrTaco's OpenBoot Troll (Score:4, Interesting)
Second off, 'Trusted Computing' can, and likely, will coexist with I-have-control-of-my-own-box computing. The question is, how will that coexistance work?
1. Is it gonna work by the Linux community needing to buy seperate motherboards with seperate firmware and seperate CPUs.
2. Is it gonna work by the Linux community hacking the firmware in ways that aren't technically legal (think Xbox) so the business community won't have anything to do with it.
3. Or is it gonna work by having firmware where 'Trusted Computing' can be turned off and on (or forced off and on) depending on the OS you choose to run?
If the F/OSS doesn't work with major industry groups, you're going to get #1 or #2 and F/OSS operating systems will be marginalized or worse. If they work with the industry groups you'll at least get a shot at #3.
There is a good second reason though. If F/OSS wants to be part of the computing community then they're going to have to come out of their F/OSS burrows occasionally and join industry groups to create industry standards. Yes, it's hard. Yes, lots of these groups don't work. Yes, some of these companies are evil, or mean, or monopolistic. So what?
There's a term for people who don't join in the decision making process and then complain about it afterwords when the decisions go against them. Actually there are several terms, but the one I want to use today is "childish". It's time for F/OSS to grow up and actually play with the big boys.
TW
Re:Cue CmdrTaco's OpenBoot Troll (Score:2, Interesting)
They come to me and say "Hey, I want to do X with my computer, will *something they configured somewhere* do the job".
I'll say, "No, that's an EFI box, you don't want that", and they'll get something else I recommend.
Even non technical folks can understand a simple comment like "The only thing this 'new and exciting' technology gives you over the old tech is the ability to have someone else tell you what you can and can not do with your computer".
I turned everyone that asked me away from Divx (and the reason I mentioned above was the driving force behind people's decision to go with my recommendation), and I'll do the same with any trusted computing platform. And I'll advocate boycotting any company that tries to force it on us (hell, I still don't buy anything from Circuit City).
Re:Use a Mac (Score:1, Interesting)
With PCs - All I've ever seen in BIOS is the boot order sequence - and sleep info (sleeping on a Mac is handled by the OS and not the boot chip).
The only "long" keystroke is option-cmd-p-r which resets the programable RAM which is like resetting the CMOS on a PC.
mod parent up (Score:2, Interesting)
The obstacle to a free BIOS is the reluctance of manufacturers to releast the necessary information to allow the BIOS to control the hardware.
Perhaps if they allow their hardware to be freely programmable they will be excluded from the "trusted computing" allowable hardware?
I have a question, if anyone is familiar with this. Do hardware manufacturers take the specs for a BIOS and port it to their hardware when installing it, or do they release their specifications to the BIOS developers?
Perhaps we are needing freedom hardware manufacturers. I wonder, if the F/OSS community was to design specs for free hardware would there be any incentive for someone to manufacture it?
I suppose it depends on how much of a market there is for a totally free/customizable computing system.