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Comments: 234 +-   `Bionic' Arm Brings Back Sense of Touch on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:27PM

Posted by CmdrTaco on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:27PM
from the we-can-rebuild-him dept.
robot
hardware
bdcrazy writes "Two way communication with prosthetic devices allows man who lost both arms in an accident to feel hot and cold, to sense objects and to actually move the prosthetic device to pick things up and put them down. "
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  • Nice (Score:5, Funny)

    by natron 2.0 (615149) <ndpeters79 AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:29PM (#12892225) Homepage Journal
    It is well and good until the arms short circuit and try to kill him...
  • Flashback (Score:5, Funny)

    by lukewarmfusion (726141) on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:29PM (#12892229) Homepage Journal
    ...to robot pricking each finger and palm, one by one, as the patient says "ow!" and then wrapping the prosthetic arm in a black glove...
  • Step 2 (Score:5, Funny)

    by Nytewynd (829901) on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:29PM (#12892232)
    The next step is finding out that Darth Vader is your daddy.
  • Peltier Junction (Score:5, Informative)

    by Enigma_Man (756516) on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:30PM (#12892243) Homepage
    These work using a peltier junction. For those not "in-the-know", peltier junctions are basically chunks of metal that push heat to one side when you run current through them one way, and the other side when you run current through them the other way. This provides a cold, and a hot side that can be varied very quickly from cold to hot, by changing the amount and direction of the current. They are very inefficient though, requiring a lot of current that is generated as excess heat overall. These are commonly used to cool processor cores down, pushing more heat into the heatsink, but keeping the core cooler than it would be with just a heatsink.

    -Jesse
    • Re:Peltier Junction (Score:4, Informative)

      by RapmasterT (787426) on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:41PM (#12892425)
      These are commonly used to cool processor cores down, pushing more heat into the heatsink, but keeping the core cooler than it would be with just a heatsink.
      I'd disagree that they're "commonly used" for CPU cooling. Peltier heat sink assemblies have fallen way out of vogue in the last few years and were never particularly popular in the first place. Problems like generating a significantly higher amount of waste heat, while simultaneously creating a frost (no kidding) and condensation problem made them extremely impractical when faced with water cooling options.

      That being said, peltier cooling IS commonly used in those little desk top refridgerators and portable DC cooler/warmers that you see for sale in RV catalogs.

      • Peltier junctions are most often used for CPU cooling, I suppose is what I meant to say, though that was just a guess. I've also seen them in those port-o-coolers too... Anybody know of anything else these are used for?

        -Jesse
    • I've actually often wondered what it would take to give a synthetic sense of touch to something. I'm guessing this "peltier junction" must be the best option for temperature since that's what their using? What else would you need, and how would you accomplish it? You would need the ability to feel whether or not something is hard or soft, whether or not it is rough or smooth, and that's really about it? Could both smoothness and hardness be deteched by the same sensors? If anyone knows please reply...it's f
      • Well, in this article, it says that the nerves from the guy's hand were reattached into his chest, attached to a pneumatic plunger that would push on the nerves when his replacement hand was pushed on; that would give him the sense of touch/pressure, though I doubt it has the resolution for something like surface texture. I'm assuming in this case (it's how it's done elsewhere in prosthetics) that there are also peltier junctions touching the nerves to provide the hot/cold sensation. In the past, the peltie
  • When will this guy [ktuu.com] be able to get some feeling back with the use of a prosthetic device.
    • Your link is broken. But I suspect something happened to his penis. Could you elaborate? How was it cut off? Did some machinery in a shop explode and tear his penis off? Or did a trout eat it?
    • Supposedly they found his penis and put it back on. This according to the article you linked. I've heard of not R'ing TFA, but you should at least R your OWN TFA.
      • Where did they find his penis? And what caused it to go missing in the first place? Did they reattach his actual penis, or was it a prosthetic binary-temperature device like the one described in this topic's article?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:30PM (#12892251)
    Would the user be able to sense that his arm is in liquid-hot MAAGMAAA before it melted?
  • This reminds me of the old joke about the voice-actuated artificial arm.

    They finally attach one to an armless human patient and it goes like this.

    The guy says, "Arm, scratch my nose". And the arm does it.

    "Amazing!", says the guy.

    "Arm, sign my name." The arm does it.

    This continues for quite a while. Finally when the guy's alone.
    He says, "Arm, take off my pants." The arm complies.

    He looks at the arm, and then at his penis and says, "OK arm, jerk it off!"
  • by justforaday (560408) on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:31PM (#12892266)
    So far it's only cost about $100,000, which is far cheaper than the $6,000,000 that was originally estimated. Maybe we'll get a little closer to that price once another arm is added, and some legs and a head and body...
  • OOoooh (Score:4, Funny)

    by TCaptain (115352) <slashdot.20.tcap ... u r m e t . com> on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:31PM (#12892271)
    "We can rebuild him. We have the technology.
    We have the capability to make the world's first Bionic man.
    Steve Austin will be that man. Better than he was before.
    Better . . . stronger . . . faster."
    • "We can rebuild him. We have the technology.
      We have the capability to make the world's first Bionic man.
      In fact, we have some good news.

      "We just saved a bunch of money on our car insurance
      by switching to GEICO."

      --The Six Million Dollar Invoice

  • by UltimateWager (893855) on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:32PM (#12892285)
    The article describes being able to feel different levels of pressure in addition to different temperatures. It sounds like an impressive level of feedback.

    Anybody want to take bets on how long it takes for a Linux dist. to be built for it?

    • Anybody want to take bets on how long it takes for a Linux dist. to be built for it?

      Cool. Then we can create a beow...

      Oh, never mind.

    • by Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:55PM (#12892596)
      The article describes being able to feel different levels of pressure in addition to different temperatures. It sounds like an impressive level of feedback.

      Anybody want to take bets on how long it takes for a Linux dist. to be built for it?


      About 5 years, 1 year for the guy to learn how to type "make menuconfig" with his toes, and another 4 for gentoo to finish compiling.
  • by pestilence669 (823950) on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:32PM (#12892290)
    I keep wondering if advances in prothetics will slow research into regrowing limbs. Once the replacement becomes better than the real thing, will people trade in their real arms for fake ones?
    • Why on earth would anyone want to trade in a real arm for a robotic one? Why not just have 3 arms?
        • I would love to have a hand on my forehead. I have tried to convince my girlfriend that this would, in fact be wicked cool (even more so than my idea for over-and-under double barreled penises) but she doesn't seem to get it.

          Think about it--sipping coffee, smoking a cigarette, keeping your sunglases from slipping off your forehead, reading maps while driving, the possibilities are endless.

          As for "wouldn't look appealing"? Well, if someone ever criticized my third forehead hand, I'd lean in real close, l
  • Feeling hot and cold is one, but how about feeling a woman? I think a guy would be in a lot more pain if she rips it off and beat him to death with it.
  • They're making progress in this ares, but still have a long way to go. I wonder how long it will take for the researchers to develop some kind of motor system that is lightweight and has enough tourque to more accurately mimic normal human movements.

    This may also advance the general robotics fields too (I would love to have a robot to fetch food and clean).

  • by Poromenos1 (830658) on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:37PM (#12892364) Homepage
    Masturbating without a sense of touch is way better though, it doesn't feel like you're doing it... Not that I'd know! :P
  • by Formica (775485) on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:37PM (#12892365)
    Here's an article with a little more details on the technical end:

    Rewired, amputee lifts arm with mind [embedded.com]

  • by nizo (81281) * on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:38PM (#12892384) Homepage Journal
    Sullivan's prosthesis has a computer in the forearm that is wired to a mechanical hand and to a "plunger" device on his chest. The hand sends signals up the wires to the plunger, which pushes the skin. That stimulates the nerves in his chest to transmit sensations to the brain as if the nerves were still connected to his real hand.
    On Wednesday, when Kuiken touched a spot on Sullivan's chest, Sullivan said: "Oh, that's right between the finger and thumb on the back side of the hand."
    If Kuiken touches one of Sullivan's prosthetic fingers, Sullivan can feel it and say which finger it is.

    Wow. I just know he is glad he can still play the "pull my finger" game with his grandkids.

  • KRYTEN: Okay, now let's recap: the limb is connected to neurons which run up to the left hemisphere of your brain, which controls the right side of your body. Now, all you have to do is merely command the arm to do something, and it obeys. Now, let's practice. Right, concentrate, sir. I want you to think: "arm - pick up the ball".

    LISTER: Okay.

    KRYTEN: Now just think: "I will pick up the ball"

    LISTER: I will pick up the ball.

    KRYTEN: That's right, good, now, concentrate.

    LISTER: *I will pick up th

  • Two way communication with prosthetic devices allows man who lost both arms in an accident to feel hot and cold, to sense objects and to actually move the prosthetic device to pick things up and put them down.

    But will it let him to type in his login and password so he can read the story about himself?

    Here's the story [yahoo.com] at Yahoo.

  • Two way communication with the prosthetic is a huge breakthrough! Glad to see this is becoming possible.

    Without this kind of feedback, control becomes...very difficult. For example, think of the cruise control in a car. You can make a decent one with a pair of opamps. The (oversimplified) way it works is that it takes the speed you're going and finds the difference between that and the speed you'd like to be going and uses that difference to work out how much to push in your accelerator.

    Now try to w

  • Usage stats (Score:4, Funny)

    by Quiet_Desperation (858215) on Thursday June 23 2005, @02:06PM (#12892710)
    "For some reason his right arm is showing more wear than the left," said Dr. Todd Kuiken. "Especially around the fingers and palm. We're not sure what's up with that."
    • by Darth_brooks (180756) <chico.wccnet@org> on Thursday June 23 2005, @01:49PM (#12892525) Homepage
      More like one of those instants where your brain, while processing the signals you've just sent to your appendages, says to itself:

      Fuck. This guy's an idiot.

      I've done stupid things with electricty. Similar things. Not once, but twice, I've touched both metal ends of a Flourescent light tube while the light was on. Once while a box cutter was in my hand, touching the metal end of one of the lights. Not me showing off being an idiot, just having one of those beautiful moments where Darwin should have taken over. My hands got moving faster than my mind could slow them down.

      This guy was probably up on a cherry picker. His weight shifted, a gust of wind came along, etc and as he started to fall his insticts yelled:

      GRAB SOMETHING!

      meanwhile his mind, not really paying attention sees what's happening and says:

      Nono don't grab th.....nevermind.

      Yeah, the guy probably screwed up somewhere down the line but Shit will invariably, consistently, and always, Happen.
    • by Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) on Thursday June 23 2005, @02:03PM (#12892678)
      I don't mean to sound like an insentive asshole

      You definitely should consider being fitted with a prosthetic asshole that can feel hot and cold and sense objects.
    • by Linker3000 (626634) on Thursday June 23 2005, @03:00PM (#12893257)
      Where I did my electronics engineering apprenticeship, we had a guy who had suffered a similar accident. His whole nervous system was shot to pieces and he had to wear tinted glasses because his eyes became sensitive to light. He had two claws for arms...and worked as a draughtsman in the drawing office!

      One day he was in front of me at a drinks vending machine and he asked me to put the coins in for him as this was about the only thing he couldn't do with his claws. He punched the buttons and out came a cup of coffee. Just as he went to pick it up, the plastic 'splash door' on the front of the cup area (which was stuck up) came down and knocked the cup, spilling coffee over his claw.

      "Damn", he said, "but at least I didn't get burned!".

      He was a really nice guy.
    • Was this one of those famous, "Hold my beer and watch this!" situations that seem to have become so well known?

      Most probably not. There was a similar case in an electric power company where I used to work years ago. This is how it happened: A maintenance crew was doing a job in a 180MW generator in a power plant. While an engineer was holding simultaneously the 13800 volts busbar, with a short-circuit current of 20000 amps, with one hand and the grounded rack with the other hand, someone closed the breake

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