Simple, Bare-Bones Motherboards?

basic0 writes "After my Windows box recently lost its life in a puff of awful smelling smoke, I tracked the fault to the motherboard. Now I'm in the market for a replacement board, but all the boards I find seem to be all-in-one models with on-board everything. I already have a good graphics card, NIC, USB audio device, etc. I just need a no-frills motherboard like I used to be able to buy. It seems like a waste to buy a board with all the built-in stuff (and probably pay extra for it) when I'm never going to use it. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Do a lot of people actually use the on-board stuff? Is it still possible to purchase a motherboard that's *just* a motherboard?"

Nah

[hardburn]

I don't think they're sold anymore, and they're so cheep now that you wouldn't save much, anyway. Just ignore whatever extras come with the board.

In fact, you just might save a few bucks in the long run by using the on-board stuff, since it may use less power than the equivilent slot-based stuff.

Cheapness

[cortana]

Motherboards are so cheap nowadays that you may as well buy one and disable all the stuff you're not going to use. I guess it's because they are produced in such numbers, that onboard audio/network chips cost mere pennies. It would probably cost the manufacturer more to sell two products, one without the extras.

all-in-one boards...

[l33td00d42]

... are cheaper in my experience, since they're geared toward the value market.

quit yer whining and buy a motherboard.

What you complaining about?

[Agret]

I already have a good graphics card, NIC, USB audio device, etc.
Well you don't want an on-board graphics card. Just ignore that. If you have an on-board NIC you can remove your PCI card and free up a slot. On-board audio is damn good these days. I paid $80 for a gigabyte board with all the on-board shit and I only use on-board NIC & Sound. They aren't very expensive and if you don't like the on-board stuff then don't use it!

They're Out There... Look harder

[kannibal_klown]

Yeh, there are a lot of "all-in-one" motherboards out there but a lot of highend ones aren't that bad. Personally I was in a similar boat, I had a great soundcard, video card, network card, etc. I settled on an ASUS who's only integrated component was sound. Finding one without integrated video is pretty easy, just look at the companies websites, reviews, etc. However most are the high-end boards, but they're at most $30 or $50 more than the cheaper modes. Ethernet, SATA, and in some cases sound are a little tough to avoid, but it's not big deal. You can disable the components you don't want, but SATA is nice (if you want/need it) and the Ethernet is just nice to have in general. In any case, it's not that bad. I'm sure by now people have posted a lot of models.

Insignificant Cost Savings.

[the eric conspiracy]

I can't imagine how much you think you would save with motherboards that support all this stuff going for $65.

Welcome to 1999

[Monkelectric]

Its *VERY* cheap to integrate this stuff onto the motherboards. All of those functions are handled by one or two chips which probably costs on the order of 5 - 10$.

Onboard video is usually pretty terrible (unless you're buying an nForce board), and if you are an audiophile like me, you'll want the 500$ sound card with the 120db DNR:) But in reality, it almost doesn't matter who made your NIC, your USB transcever, etc etc.

You can shut the stuff off you don't want

[foonf]

The core functionality for most of the onboard components is now built right into the chipset. It costs at most a couple of bucks to add the connectors and the rest of the hardware (a sound codec, ethernet transciever, etc.) needed to fully support it, and the added value is more than that.

A lot of stuff that is now integrated on literally every motherboard used to be an add on card. 10 years ago you would be whining "why do I have to get a motherboard with an IDE controller and onboard parallel ports, I already have a multi-IO card". But things change and for the most part the integrated hardware is adequate, and it isn't economically viable to not provide it.

Re:then dont use it

[peragrin]

Because the more you have the more things that can go wrong.

running dual video cards and disabling one of them works, but you never really know what's going on. maybe the driver required to disable that onboard card is what goes puff and loses it's magic.

You should be able to build a computer without extra's if you so choose.

And why do modern boards still have serial and Parralell ports? They aren't used by 75% of the rest of the world, why are they even included as standard on ALL boards? On Some us because they still have some value but ALL?

I am damn glad Mac's have eliminated all the old hardware ports that don't play nice.

Not Much Choice

[ewhac]

Most of these peripherals are integrated into the North- and/or South-Bridge chips these days. The additional cost of these on-chip features has already been amortized out, so the cost savings of not having them integrated into the chips is effectively zero.

If you are a 31337 g4m3r, integrated graphics is indeed a joke. However, it's good enough for 85% of the users out there, who will almost never run anything more intensive than Word, IE, and the occasional Flash-based game. Same deal with integrated sound -- for Windows event beeps and boops, it's more than plenty.

10/100 Mb/s speeds are now common on integrated Ethernet controllers, and most of them have very little braindamage these days. 1Gb/s on-chip controllers are also already starting to appear.

To put it another way: Parallel, RS-232 serial, and PS/2 mouse/keyboard ports used to require separate expansion cards. Today, they are integrated into the motherboard chipset, and no one thinks the worse for this. For those who need extra ports or special high-performance ports, third-party PCI expansion cards are still available.

So, in short, the way systems are being put together these days, there's no cost savings to be had by breaking out the peripherals you don't need. If you feel a need to put the old parts to good use, donate them to a school, or use them to build a Frankenbox on which to do kernel or driver development :-).

Schwab

Re:Finally...

[NanoGator]

"Thank god... one less Windows user out there now. I am sorry to inform you that they no longer make motherboards for Windows as you might as well install Linux or buy a Mac..."

Good for a chuckle, but Insightful? Did the guy who modded this comment really think a gamer would be happier with Linux or a Mac?

Re:then dont use it

[SydShamino]

>> And why do modern boards still have serial and Parralell ports? They aren't used by 75% of the rest of the world, why are they even included as standard on ALL boards? On Some us because they still have some value but ALL?

My new (as of January) Dell at work doesn't have them. It just has 6 USB ports (8, if you also count the two on the front).

Dell can remove them, because they are selling a complete system and know that customers don't need a PS2 keyboard slot, for example.

The separate motherboard vendors still include them because it is cheaper to sell one motherboard version than it is to sell two, where one has a reduce featureset.

In a few more years they will be phased out. It just takes time. ISA took forever to be phased out as well. PCI is obsolete now, too, but even you might hope that they keep a few PCI slots around for a few years until all your old PCI add-on cards have been replaced. (Assuming you don't use all motherboard built-in features.)

Use everything no, eventually most of it

[amcdiarmid]

I am collecting a bunch of older hardware that I no longer have a use for due to the inclusion of everything on the motherboard. I have been finding that I, and my clients, do not use everything when it's new. Eventually, most stuff does get used.

Further, unless you are rebuying good modern *everything* every few years - the on board stuff is probably as good as what you are using.

What am I talking about integrated on the motherboard:

On board USB:
I avoided USB stuff like the plague for several years. Mostly a question of having legacy equipment around. Now that the drivers have been stable (for a long time), all the slots get used.
If I need a faster USB (due to a newer spec, or I want to do faster data xfer) I can use a PCI slot.
Your two year old USB 1.1 card is slower than my onboard USB2.0 ports anyhow. By a lot.

Firewire:
This was not really used in the PC world. Except for video transfer. Now it's also good for data transfer for portable/external hard disks. This may be the least used included item, but worth it for video. Since the HDTV cable boxes are going to have to have a firewire port, I imagine that everyone will be happy that the manufacturer put them in. Now about those ieee1394 800/400 converter cables...

Ethernet Port:
Yes: Almost always needed, it costs the manufacturer what $2 to add? Yes there are better cards than the cheapo NICs, but if you buy a real server it will have a Gb and a 10/100 NIC anyhow.

RAID:
OK, I wish more manufacturers included it. But it is not used enough except for fanboys. If you really set up a server, you need hardware raid and not this pissant software *&(*& However, if you just want data redundancy it's nice. I like the fact that many SATA raid sets seem to be floating around. Most likely item not to be on a new motherboard with the kitchen sink included.

Sound:
I don't give a *&( about sound for some machines, and for others, basic sound is good enough. Worth $2. It's good enough. I only need one machine with a good sampler, everything else can be crap. Most computers don't really need good sound anyhow.

Onboard Video:
I use it, but it's not good enough for anything graphics intense. Consider this a "For business" feature. Despite the fact that modern on board graphics processors are faster than my entire pile of ancient ATI all in wonders combined. Also, this is the item most likely to be left off a motherboard, after raid.

To conclude:
Not everything gets used at first, but eventually most of it will be. Also, after a few years (the life of a good motherboard) the items included on the kitchen-sink motherboard are prob. better than your old kit anyhow. For example, within ten percent, a NIC is a NIC is a NIC (with few exceptions). Your good NIC from a few years ago is not likely faster than the onboard version. As a second example, your two year old USB card is slower than the on-board USB2 slots.

So you will not use everthing now, but you may eventually. Also, often what is on the motherboard is as fast as your old kit - if not faster. If you use the integrated motherboard, you save the extra cost of the kitchen sink items by sparing the two minutes it would take to install each item of your old kit.

Disable in BIOS

[Anonymous Coward]

Just buy one of those boards with all the extra stuff on it, since it is probably just as cheap or even cheaper than ones that don't have the built-in stuff, then just go into the BIOS and disable all the features that you don't want to use.

More importantly...

[raehl]

There's a good chance that the integrated stuff he's going to get for free anyway is actually BETTER than the expansion cards he's so insanely keen on continuing to use.

Welcome to the reality of computer components - there's no value in trying to save old tech.

Power usage

[Nakarti]

Well if you do happen to use all the integrated junk(although some of it is less junky, such as the ATI or nVidia integrated video) you tend to use less power. And yes, lots of people do use the integrated stuff, because they don't know about the better audio quality, video clarity, network performance(mainly moot on that one), and system performance they can get with dedicated hardware.
That and it is nearly as cheap to get integrated systems than bare mainboards(especially microATX, which is often cheaper because of the massive OEM market for them.)

Re:YES

[Anonymous Coward]

Curious what you would consider a legitimate question? Are we down to only posting obscure questions about code writing or networking? I had the nerve a while back to post a query about ram speed and operating systems related to render farms for 3D rendering. I was interested in $ verses performance. It's hard to get real world information on the subject yet I was given a similar reaction by several posters. Unless you've had a chance to try every combination out there it's a legitimate question.

As to the current poster I had researched the same subject and had come to the same conclusion everyone else, just ignore the redunadant features. For basic tasks most are adequate anyway. Video Cards obviously being the dodgiest thing on most boards. The built in networking and sound are decent and I don't miss having to configure them. It may not be the most brain or experience taxing question but it definately seems to have provoked discussion since you found it worthy of whinning over.

Re:What you complaining about?

[LordStraun]

Personally, I'd love to just get a good-ol' barebones mobo too. The first thing I do when I buy a new one these days is disable _everything_ except for the NIC..

Stay away from onboard video.. that's just common sense.

The onboard audio these days is passable, if you're using a sub-$100 set of stereo speakers. But if you're an audiophile like myself with several thousand dollars invested in a nice 7.1 spkr setup, (or heck, even a $300 set of 5.1 speakers) then the onboard audio just doesn't cut it. I thought I'd give a couple boards a try, but their optical/digital outputs were a pain to configure, the sound "configuration" software was a joke, and 'equalizer' functionality only resulted in badly distorted and staticy sound.

I've yet to encounter a current on-board audio chipset that didn't sound and perform like crap. Even the 4-year old SB I have in my test box sounds better.

I will admit that compared to past products, the audio on today's boards is much better.. but it still cannot compare to a dedicated expansion card IMNSHO.

Re:then dont use it

[Anonymous Coward]

What's funny about that is this is one of the things I despise about Mac design. An RS-232 port is so ridiculously easy to make hardware for, you can build a serial interface to something in a couple minutes. Maybe you don't like doing anything with hardware outside your computer, but I have found it absolutely invaluable for that purpose.

Re:What you complaining about?

[maraist]

For servers, I've found that having onboard video isn't too bad; especially if you can reduce it's system-memory to 2, 4 or 8 meg.. On a 1+ gigabyte system, the last 8 meg shouldn't be much trouble. If we're talking a budget server ($300 or so), then the money savings can often be worth it.

Device Driver Support if you're running Linux

[billstewart]

If you're running Linux, try to find out if the drivers are available for the built-in parts. They probably are - builtins tend to be pretty vanilla standard Southbridge parts, so enough other people often have them, and Knoppix can probably find them. But otherwise you may need to use your own boards.

If you're running Windows, the integrated on-board stuff will work fine, and as another poster says, you could use the built-in graphics to run a second monitor, which you'll find very addictive. If you're a gamer, you'll probably want to use your own video card, but otherwise it's nice to have your system be cooler and quieter with the built-in video.

Re:YES

[Max_Abernethy]

You're right, that is a mistake. This isn't a news site, it's a site where entertaining tech-related stories get posted for people to read when they feel like taking a break for a few minutes. People post constantly about how slashdot isn't exactly what they think it should be. If someone posted about SETI, then you'd get a bunch of folks complaining that SETI is not important to them personally and therefore shouldn't be on Slashdot. There's filtering tools if you don't like ask /. stories, and if that's not satisfactory and you really can't deal with scrolling past stories you aren't intersted in then this (and the internet, and the entire un-filterable world) is not for you.

Insignificant Cost Savings: So what?

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

How about a bare bones board that cost around $100 - 200, but comes with TOP QUALITY components?

Re:pricewatch

[irving47]

Search this, search that... God forbid we get some actual discussion on a topic. If all you Google-worshipping goons had your way, we'd all have it as our browser home page and it would be locked.
Seriously, that was an insightful topic and interesting answer...

Mod away.

Re:Insignificant Cost Savings: So what?

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

How about capacitors that don't leak, eh?

Re:YES

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a clue for you: That's just a TAGLINE.

Sorta like Fox: Fair and Balanced.

So, in conclusion, Slashdot not a news site, Fox is for morons.
Got it?

Re:Insignificant Cost Savings: So what?

[(negative video)]

What are you refering to with "top notch"? What are you looking for that you think should be better that the typical MB is lacking?

Support for ECC memory, industrial-grade capacitors that won't dry out or corrode within a few years, power converters with plenty of safety margin so they can get covered with dust and still last forever without burning up, high-speed buses with with electrical reflections and crosstalk properly taken into account so they don't crap all over my precious data, a BIOS not written by a team of psychotic crack-monkeys in a Taiwanese dungeon, proper documentation for the chips so that drivers have a chance of working correctly, proper tests at the time of manufacture so that consumers never ever see a flaky board, cooling fans with bearings that are both quiet and capable of lasting more than two years, connectors in sensible locations, connectors with enough friction that the hard drive cables don't pull loose under light pressure, and so forth.

I don't ask for much, really.