Dell Still Intel Only 399
wyckedone writes "Dell Computers has no plans to offer the new dual-core AMD Opteron even though it has been proven that "Opteron's integrated memory controller and multiple Hypertransport interconnects help it outperform Intel's Xeon processor on many benchmarks, especially those that measure the performance of memory-intensive applications.". HP, IBM and Sun Microsystems have all announced that they are going to release servers based on the new AMD chip. Why not offer customers an alternative that has better performance instead of risking the lose of those customers to another vendor that does? Intel has no plans to release a dual-core Xeon until 2006."
SFW (Score:5, Interesting)
Remind me why I should care?
from the duh dept. (Score:5, Interesting)
Or so I've heard.
Seems silly (Score:1, Interesting)
Intel Paper-Launch(TM) (Score:4, Interesting)
Intel is paper-launching it's "desktop" Dual Core CPUs today ($1000+ desktop CPUs... Mmmm..) Meanwhile, AMD has supplied IBM, HP, etc with Dual Core CPUs for their server lines, which you can order today and receive within a few weeks.
This generation goes to AMD, pure and simple. The Opterons are going to swallow the Intel systems in performance whole. Maybe even price in some configurations.
Sub-$200? (Score:3, Interesting)
History: Failure to learn, doomed to repeat (Score:5, Interesting)
The i386 chip came out, it was faster, but IBM decided not to move right away - after all, who needed all of that extra speed? The i286 was fine!
If memory serves me right, I believe that Compaq came out within seconds telling anyone who would listen that they had i386 processors now - and made it their policy to always support the latest and fastest chips.
I wonder if this will hurt Dell at all. Odds are, with the enterprise vendors, not too much - but all it takes is a little mistake to give your competitors a chance to catch up. And as slim as margins on PCs are, I'm not Dell can afford to slip up in a situation like this.
Just dont' buy a Dell. (Score:2, Interesting)
Unless, that is, the consumer PC market sees a marked demand for AMD-based systems. Especially if a significant Dell competitor (is there one?) starts to meet that demand with AMD systems. I just don't see another consumer PC maker with the type of market share necessary to force Dell into that position.
Of course. (Score:4, Interesting)
Both are a possibility, but until either company is losing significant marketshare by staying the course they have traveled for so long... It won't happen.
Paper Launch story at The Inquirer (Score:2, Interesting)
TheInq on Intel Paper Launch [theinquirer.net]
Dell's not stupid... (Score:5, Interesting)
Why not offer customers an alternative that has better performance instead of risking the lose of those customers to another vendor that does?
Why not allow a hugely successful company figure out what's best for it's customers rather than assuming that they would want to please an AMD fanboy.
It's a bit trollish, I know, but Dell isn't hurting. They're doing a great job, even without using AMD. Perhaps doubling the number of configurations would increase their stock on hand, and that would cost more money and cut down on profits. Perhaps it would add complexity to the orders, which might result in poorer customer service. Perhaps the number of customers on a given hardware platform would change, decreasing the amount of testing and QA they could perform per platform, resulting in a loss for customers and vendor alike.
Why not accept the fact that there is more than just a one line blurb, and that maybe Dell actually knows what they're doing...
and their tech support... (Score:5, Interesting)
Not to be a pessimist, but I've dealt with Dell Tech Support 23 times this past year, every time with India, and I had only 2 positive experiences.
The company I work for has a lot of sales folks, who like to break laptops and all. So, I usually end up calling Dell for replacements (fulfill warranties and such) and guess what, I ALWAYS have to talk to Tech Support first. Every single time it's "reboot the machine". Come on! And good luck trying to let them know all you need is a replacement part, they just ask you a bevy of questions first and THEN transfer you when they can't understand you anymore.
They should just automate the damn tech support, it's pretty much the same effect. Those folks cannot understand you, and you end up either with a dropped line or worse, a transfer to another tech support person. BAH!
Maybe this has something to do with it? (Score:1, Interesting)
Specifically, the six-page complaint says Intel, in at least one case, offered rebates or other funds on the condition that PC makers not work with any competing vendors, including longtime rival Advanced Micro Devices (NYSE: AMD). Another deal allegedly offered money to manufacturers in return for giving no more than 10% of their chip business to Intel competitors. The filing further claims that the practices have been ongoing since May 2002.
For its part, Intel says its business practices are fair and lawful. But it also included a key hedge in a statement issued this morning. It says that the Japanese, in their ruling, didn't consider whether any of Intel's actions hurt consumers through higher prices or other fallout. This, however, is a bogus argument straight from the "end justifies the means" school of business.
I mean, really, can't we assume that if Intel is engaging in unfair competition in Japan, at some point its competitors will be forced to conclude that operating in the region is a waste of money? What happens to consumers at that point? Do we just wait and find out? No, I don't think so.
Consider what's already happened. According to industry researcher Gartner Group (NYSE: IT), AMD's PC market share has taken a dive from 22% in 2002 to 10% in 2004. Over the same period, Intel's operations in Japan increased from 7% to 9% of its global revenues. Even more interesting is that from 2001 to 2002, Intel's total revenue from Japan declined from 10% to 7%.
Reporters need to keep asking Intel at every industry event whether Intel has a deal similar to what is alleged in Japan. They need to keep asking pointed questions in this area until Intel issues a similar filing with the SEC that explains away any anti-competitive deal they may have with Dell similar to what they filed in regard to the issues with Japan. Once Intel files that explanation to cover their asses, then reporters have something specific to hone in on.
As long as the reporters keep asking the questions about any deal with Dell to not use AMD whether financially rewarding type of deal or specific avoid ala Sherman Anti-trust deal, Intel's legal department (or Dell's) will at some point decide it necessary to file an explanation, disclosure or some double talk with the SEC.
That's when reporters can hone in on the disclosure and Intel/Dell for the kill.
Re:Because (Score:2, Interesting)
I know if I owned stock in Dell that I'd be a bit concerned.
MOD PARENT UP (Score:1, Interesting)
NONE of these predictions have come true. In fact, since the Athlon first came out and Dell rejected it way back when, Dell has blown everyone else out of the water. HP, now HP/Compaq, IBM, etc. They didn't to be the #1 PC manufacturer because they make stupid business decisions.
Re:Dell's customers not asking? (Score:3, Interesting)
I built a 150 node AMD cluster last year of the IBM 326s. This sucka really hauls the mail. Now I'm going to do a simple BIOS flash to all of the nodes and replace the CPUs with dual cores. I expect the processing capacity to cause micro-tears in space-time. Just don't stand too close when we fire it up.
In other news... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Makes perfect business sense (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the smartest point I've seen made on this story. AMD fanboys may want to think about what they're wishing for -- if AMD's #1 priority becomes feeding Dell, keeping hobbyists happy is going to fall way down on their list.
Re:Another reason to use AMD (Score:4, Interesting)
So it's not surprising to read that they are avoiding the AMD chipset, if it consumes less power and runs much cooler.
Bad example: Compaq gone, IBM still alive (Score:1, Interesting)
Compaq as a company is gone. It's owner - HP - is nothing more than an ink-delivery system for printers (look at where all HP's profits come from...).
What was the point of your example, then?
Re:Exclusive supplier agreements? (Score:4, Interesting)
This is also coupled with the fact that AMD doesn't have the customer recognition that Intel does. Dude I'm getting a Dell is followed by a man in a bunny suit. thats the way things are. On top of it one of AMDs strengths is the enthusiast market (which much of slashdot is). This market runs counter to dells market.
However where this decision doesn't make sense is in their server line. I doubt Intel gives dell a massive price break on Xeon chips (like they tend to with p4's), and I doubt Dell having Opteron chips would lose dell too much of the costs dealing with Intel, but I could be wrong. Basically with the performance of the Xeon relative to the opteron for servers the Opteron looks highly attrractive. From speed, memory performance, heat, and price standpoints. Not selling those chips seems crazy, but who knows. Maybe dell has something up their sleeves.
Phil
Re:Not to flame (Score:2, Interesting)
AMD are also crippled on the desktop by MS's inability to produce a 64 bit OS. People feel comfortable with microsoft OS's and an OS upgrade is always a good driver to upgrade.
Let's face it, if Longhorn came out at the same time as Opteron, AMD would have more than double the market share they currently have.
Re:SFW (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It would not be good for Dell's bottom line (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Makes perfect business sense (Score:1, Interesting)
Dell is extremely demanding on its suppliers, who actually build factories and warehouses DIRECTLY outside Dell's facilities because Dell has like a 1 hour mandatory turnover time (not sure on exact details...read about it a while ago). In other words, when it asks Intel for a specific chip, it must be there within the hour.
For AMD to provide this kind of service, it would require the construction of facilities (time) and get past the learning curve/smooth the kinks (more time) --- maybe that's why it won't be profitable until 2006...
Re:MOD PARENT UP (Score:3, Interesting)
However, HP and Compaq had two problems. First, they had eMachines syndrome - they made shitty hardware, and people were starting to realize it. Second, as somebody else said, HP is an ink delivery mechanism for their printers. They're not a computer company. They're not a camera company. They're not even a printer company. They're a flipping ink company.
Dell hardware is MUCH better than HPaq hardware (not saying much, mind you - I'd rather avoid Dell, given the chance). Sure, HPaq and IBM use(d) AMD. (Servers only, for IBM, though, last I checked - the PC division, which was the only one sold off, used all Intel, IIRC) However, there are other factors leading to the downfall of those companies.
The Unfortunate Truth (Score:3, Interesting)
1: HP builds crap, supports it like crap, and was the first major manufacturer to stop shipping the Windows Operating System discs you paid for as part of the system with the system. Their "recovery disc" is even more crap, when you can get it. They sell computers mainly to bundle their much more profitable printers with. If you disagree, tell me the last time you recommended a Pavilion to a friend you wanted to keep.
2: Sun is overpriced! Let me repeat, Sun is overpriced!!
3: IBM is not as cheap as Dell, is trying to get out of the PC business because they're losing money on the desktop and notebook arenas, and hasn't been winning any customer support awards for end-users/home-users for years, if not a decade.
4: Gateway is dueling with Apple to see who can have a lower market share in computers. They try to sell TV's the way Apple sells iPods.
5: And Dell, who suffers from none of the above, keeps insisting that "Well sell AMD based computers when our customers demand it." How deaf can they be?
6: Alienware and the other niche marketeeters? $$$.
In my book, not a single good choice for a no-problems, affordable, supported, home AMD system. And both myself, my wife's business, and the company I now work for (as well as the last one) have all been loyal Dell customers accounting for well over 1000 units sold so far. Dell does not care about us!
Re:and their tech support... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:from the duh dept. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Bad example: Compaq gone, IBM still alive (Score:2, Interesting)
Compaq as a company is gone. It's owner - HP - is nothing more than an ink-delivery system for printers (look at where all HP's profits come from...).
However, if you strip away all of the other unrelated businesses that IBM and HP are in, it looks a little different. IBM is just about out of the PC market altogether, whereas HP is still a big player, profits or not.
On the topic of the original GP post: The 286 vs 386 isn't that comparable to today's situation. The 386 had almost 3X the performance of the 286, plus it added virtual memory and removed the shackles of 16-bit pointers. It was a massive upgrade.
The new dual core chips don't offer anything that you can't currently get with a dual CPU motherboard. It's pretty much just a packaging issue. It's an internal implementation detail that may temporarily affect the system vendor's cost margins, but a few months delay introducing them probably won't have much long-term effect.
Re:from the duh dept. (Score:3, Interesting)
LoB