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Handhelds Hardware

Web Design Hampers Mobile Internet? 434

aws910 writes "Reuters is running an article on how flashy web design is impacting the usability of internet-enabled mobile devices, with quotes from Tim Berners-Lee. Although the article is sparse on details, it is an interesting topic for discussion. Having recently bought an internet-enabled cellphone, I can honestly say that most websites are painful to view on a 240x320 screen over a GPRS connection(EVDO is expensive/US-only). Have we moved away from 56K-modem-oriented design, only to be pulled back in that direction?"
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Web Design Hampers Mobile Internet?

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  • by TheLevelHeadedOne ( 700023 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:03PM (#12025988) Homepage
    Yes...but I don't think there's going to be a strong pull back....
  • Market (Score:4, Interesting)

    by turtled ( 845180 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:04PM (#12025998)
    Is there that big of a market for mobile internet to have sites double design, one for PCs, one for 320x240 mobile internet devices? I know very few people that use things like that. Usually to check weather and the sports scores.
  • I wrote a portal (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DrSkwid ( 118965 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:06PM (#12026025) Journal
    I just wrote a text only portal to the information I need using Nokia's Python SDK for Symbian 60.

    It screen scrapes the sites I'm interested in and just returns the stuff I *want* to know : local cinema showings, a few RSS feeds, my current bank balance - that sort of stuff

    More work than most people will do but makes me happy :)
  • by costas ( 38724 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:09PM (#12026069) Homepage
    The problem is technical, and solvable: my newsbot [memigo.com] for example offers a personalized list of top news articles formatted for PDA/mobiles [memigo.com]. I am sure there are other services that go beyond news...
  • by Delilah Jones ( 852061 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:10PM (#12026087)
    It seems plausible to think that the market forces will overpower (or otherwise direct) those of technology in this instance.

    For example, do you think that Amazon will move to a simpler website design to accomodate relatively few mobile users? Or would they go to the trouble to create an alternate 'mobile-only' website?

    The answer?

    Yes, if the market demands for such a headache merit doing so.

    Otherwise, I think the technology of mobile Internet will have to conform to the current market situation of flashy website designs.

  • Re:Useless... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:14PM (#12026160)
    umm.. Useless it is not. Usage of wireless web enabled devices is growing faster than the conventional delivery methods can handle.

    As a full time web designer - I have made my services for developing websites for web enabled devices a high priority. With proper research and proper web design skills, developing websites for slow connections without Macromedia Flush is pretty straight forward.

    What is really needed right now, especially for the Pocket PC platform (Which I feel is superior in every aspect compared to the kludge that is Palm OS)is Minimo development to progress at a faster rate. PPC IE browser is blech, and the only viable option for efficiency on the PPC platform right now is NetFront v3.1 for Pocket PC. Multimedia delivery via PPC Windows Media Player or Real Player is already in place and developing content for that format is pretty straight forward.

    I only wish Qualcomm would get off its dead ass and develop Eudora for PPC instead of just Palm OS. I don't like the idea of using Outlook, but I will if it is necessary to do my work.
  • Re:Useless... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by yog ( 19073 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:15PM (#12026175) Homepage Journal
    Well, there are times when there's no choice, such as when one is on the road or in a motel with no internet access or on site at a client's place of business where it's a security risk to touch their intranet terminals. Also, when at a factory, gas station, restaurant, rest stop on the highway... the list goes on and on. So, the suggestion of "just view the sites on a regualr [sic] computer" doesn't apply in every situation where one might need to access the world wide web.

    I'm at the very low end of access speed; I've just started using my Palm T3 with a bluetooth phone to access web sites, with mixed results. To my surprise, the sites I have used (/., Y!News, Y!Quotes, dictionary.com, NE Journal of Medicine, google.com, etc.) have been pretty "format-friendly" so far. Vonage.com--forget it; the whole site's Flash.

    I have found that by far the fastest way to browse is to ssh to my linux account and run lynx. This relieves the handheld of the responsibility to download tons of html formatting and graphics placeholders. Now if only this bluetooth phone-dialup ISP connection weren't so godawful slow it would be more useful. But, it's better than nothing.

    Anyway, clearly there needs to be some more consciousness on the part of web site designers as to different screen sizes, but my experience has been not too bad.
  • 56k modem? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dragoon412 ( 648209 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:16PM (#12026193)
    It's not about bandwidth, it's about usability.

    The permeation of flash-based advertising, unnecessarily-bloated UI design, and lack of consideration towards lower-resolution displays have put a damper on mobile web access.

    I know it's at the point where I've recently canceled my unlimited data access on my Sony Ericsson S710a. Why? There just isn't anything to do with it. ...and that may be my one gripe with this article. It seems to be blaming web designers for the lack of functionality on mobile web access. While I think that may, in part, be true, that most mobile devices have low-resolution displays, very little processing power, and less-than-efficient interfaces, operating on overpriced, under-performing data networks is a much larger barrier for the use of mobile web access than just web design.

    Mobile web, right now, is basically about IM, sports scores, news, and very limited email and document handling, and that is the fault of the devices themselves, not web designers.
  • Re:Useless... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AchilleTalon ( 540925 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:32PM (#12026428) Homepage
    What I found an order of magnitude much more useless is the design of sites which are 99% container and 1% content. Why should we bother beefing up our browsing devices for such a nuisance?

    Just for example, last night I was about to order chicken on the internet. The restaurant's site insisted to show me an animated introduction, then open a multi-frames colorful page with ads on specials and how good is their chickens. Not only it requires Flash to order chicken, but you need also a fast connection for all the images. It crashed twice during the process, I decided to go out and bring some sushis. Should it be so complicated to order chicken?

    Of course, I may used phone, however, in this specific case, I was using my phone line to surf from a location having only a 56Kbps connection.
  • Re:Useless... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rokzy ( 687636 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:32PM (#12026436)
    I use the internet on my mobile. Email is obviously fine. General browsing can be a bit awkward and slow, but my main use - looking up IMDB reviews while in the shop DVD section - is great.

    The idea of walking home to look up a bit of info is (or "can be" and "should be") as retarded in today's society as needing to find a phone box to tell someone you'll be a bit late.
  • Re:Useless... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MillionthMonkey ( 240664 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:33PM (#12026442)
    People like clean, simple interfaces. Why do page designers always insist on flashy designs? The flashier it is, the more it looks like an advertisement. When important GUI elements are disguised with flashy colors and graphics to attract attention, they look like advertisements and you end up looking all over for them and not finding them.

    The internal HR web site for my company isn't even usable in Mozilla; the major navigation "tabs" near the top of the screen are visible only in IE. In any other browser they appear sunken, like gravestones after a flood, so you can see only a few rows of pixels at the very top edge of each tab. You have to keep waiting while the page convulsively realigns itself as the flashy images load. If I see one more stock photo of people smiling at computers, I'm going to vomit.

    As for my phone (mMode), forget it. You can enter an arbitrary URL but I have yet to find one that doesn't give an error message. It can't load even something simple like a blog. If there's a column at the left, right, or top with images from adservers, it always chokes on those. By default the phone dumps you into a menu-based structure where you can browse news, sports, or "what's hot", and from what I can tell, if you're looking for news, sports, or "what's hot" it's great. That's never what I've needed it for though. I tried doing a white pages search on the road once- surely that must be possible- and gave up after 20 minutes after getting errors from both Yahoo and MSN. I ended up using a "low tech solution": calling my wife at home and asking her to do the white pages search for me from her PC.
  • Re:Useless... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Deinhard ( 644412 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:38PM (#12026499)
    With all of the RTFM and RTFA retorts around here, I think the best solution to a boring wait is to RTF whatever. Better still, read a book.

    Are we getting so wired that we can't just sit still with a bound book and read for half an hour?
  • Re:The SDK (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DrSkwid ( 118965 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:50PM (#12026649) Journal
    the filtering is done server side, the SDK is just used to get the files and display them, a bit like a web browser but a dedicated Symbian app, using a URI to build the menus from a text file

    here's an example [maht0x0r.net]

  • Re:Useless... HARDLY (Score:2, Interesting)

    by starglider29a ( 719559 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @02:50PM (#12026655)
    What was the John Cusack film that he made before Identity? I wanted to know. I was at the video store, pulled out my web-enabled phone, went to my phone webform http://af2k.com/mpt/imdb.asp, which borrows from imdb.com/Find and asked... the answer choked my phone.

    I was in a Karaoke bar, gearing up to sing "Wildflower" by Skylark, so I surfed onto google to review the lyrics. Worked great.

    Mini-browsers are like swiss army kives. If you have one, you will find legit uses for them... <BLINK>IF</BLINK> the pages are NOT choked with crap.

    PS: No, I didn't REALLY try to use blink tags
  • by tachyonflow ( 539926 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @03:18PM (#12026957) Homepage
    I have a Treo 650, and the "kilobyte meter" at the top of the Blazer web browser has certainly opened my eyes to how heavyweight some web sites are. I can't pull up an article on denverpost.com without pulling down about a megabyte of data. Fortunately, the Treo 650's high resolution and Sprint's fairly speedy data service make this mostly painless, but I have to wonder if high-performance cellphones and heavyweight web sites are hurting Sprint's data network. Also, I bet these sites are really sluggish on 56k modems.

    I've been thinking about how to best design a web site to solve this problem. For dynamic web sites, alternate "views" of the site could be automatically selected for different web browsers -- as long as there is sufficient separation between the content and the presentation. Maybe CSS could help, too.

  • by AndroidCat ( 229562 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @03:42PM (#12027237) Homepage
    You should try it with no screen at all! I've been playing with text-to-speech of web pages recently [primus.ca]. It's not that hard to scrape text for reading from an individual web site, but each one requires a look at the HTML to set up filters for the meaningful text and a few tries to get it right -- and problems if the page's formating ever changes.

    With RSS, I expect it to be a lot better and be much easier to get a non-kludge working. That's my next addition planned after some speech input.

  • Re:Useless... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Deinhard ( 644412 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @05:49PM (#12028865)
    I disagree. While content is certainly important, medium is equally valuable.

    There is something almost spiritual about the printed word. You get a better feel for the content when you can feel the paper, the binding, even the ink across the page if you try hard enough.

    Samuel T. Cogley in the ST:TOS episode "Court Martial" said it best:

    "Don't you like books?"
    "Oh, I like them fine, but a computer takes less space."
    "A computer, huh? I got one of these in my office. Contains all the precedents, a synthesis of all the great legal decisions written throughout time. - I never use it."
    "Why not?"
    "I've got my own system. Books, young man, books. Thousands of them. If time wasn't so important, I'd show you something-- my library. Thousands of books."
    "What would be the point?"
    "This is where the law is, not in that homogenized, pasteurized, synthesized - Do you want to know the law, the ancient concepts in their own language, Learn the intent of the men who wrote them, from Moses to the tribunal of Alpha 3? Books."

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