Apple Backs Blu-ray 491
zaxios writes "The New York Times is reporting that Apple has joined the Blu-ray Disc Association, and will use Blu-ray in upcoming versions of iMovie and Final Cut. The move puts Apple among Sony, Matsushita, Dell, HP and Walt Disney in supporting Blu-ray; companies including Toshiba, NEC, Warner Brothers, New Line Cinema, Universal and Paramount are pledged to adopt the competing HD-DVD format. Apple's support confirms Blu-ray's future dominance on the desktop, but the division in Hollywood and notebook manufacturers between the two HD videodiscs will ensure the bona fide format war we were all secretly pining for."
um? (Score:5, Insightful)
Against the MS behemoth supporting HDDVD? Why exactly?
And mow for something completely different, who pays this site [dvdsite.org]'s bills?
HD-DVD will win out (Score:4, Insightful)
Consumer: You mean this is a H D DVD. Wow I have been hearing so much about how good HD is so I want one.
Dont laugh VHS rolled of tounge better than Beta Max. One has to wonder what marketing genus wanted to call their product beta anyway
About this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Am I on the ball here or is there really not a complete performance domination by Blu-ray?
Re:Not really... (Score:3, Insightful)
Just look at the history!
Re:um? (Score:3, Insightful)
However - I would not rule out future devices that would support both standards, if they both gain good marketshare.
Re:Not really... (Score:2, Insightful)
The diffrence that matters (Score:3, Insightful)
its the fact that there are going to be two _competing_ formats which means...
lower prices!
Sony & Apple (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:um? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:HD-DVD will win out (Score:3, Insightful)
Beta tape was higher quality, with a crisper picture. Video professionals STILL use Beta. Objectively, it is a better tape format.
But at the time (late 1970's- early 1980's), Beta tapes could barely hold a full-length feature film. They crapped out at a little under 2 hours. Not so good for home taping.
VHS, on the other hand, had SIX hour tapes. They could easily hold an entire sporting event, several TV episodes, and a film, all on one tape.
Home Taping sold home Videotape recorders, and customers chose the cheaper, more plentiful recording medium. "VHS" is meaningless letters, but customers easily understand "three times the recording time on the same size tape".
Re:um? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think now that Apple is supporting Blu-Ray, don't be surprised that Microsoft ends up supporting this format, too. The reasons are simple: MS wants interoperability with high-definition DVD discs created with a non-Microsoft OS, and I think Microsoft likes the higher recordable storage capacity of Blu-Ray discs, too.
Re:And that is why... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The invisible elephant (Score:5, Insightful)
So, whether Hollywood likes it or not, Apple's just won the fight for Blue Ray... unless they get tricky, and simultaneously support HD-TV as well, which isn't beyond the realm of possibility.
SoupIsGood Food
don't forget the MiniDisc! (Score:4, Insightful)
i type this as someone who has a few pieces of MD hardware and actually likes it.... though i think most people that use(d) minidiscs liked them. i never bought pre-recorded music but used it to replace cassettes.
Format Wars (Score:3, Insightful)
So why, exactly, should I be pining for a format war?
All that means to me is several years of incompatible hardware, price fluctuation, and annoying-ass FUD campaigns ("Our discs last longer! HD-DVDs melt after three months!" "That's a lie, plus OUR discs have better color density on playback!" "Oh YEAH?? Well, OUR discs...")
A format war might drive prices down more quickly in the short term, but what good is that to me if I need to buy new hardware and don't want to get stuck with a lemon during those few years before either one format wins hands-down or dual-capability drives get introduced?
Re:The invisible elephant (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not really... (Score:3, Insightful)
MOD PARENT DOWN- WRONG WRONG INFORMATION (Score:0, Insightful)
Read the other responses to the post, the parent is clearly mac propaganda.
MOD PARENT DOWN- WRONG WRONG INFORMATION (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:Dell (Score:3, Insightful)
at some point what the masses buy will be important for burning discs, but i guess for now it is an issue what formats laptops will be able to play? if Apple, Dell etc etc sell laptops that can only play BlueRay discs and not HDDVD it might matter? if i could pick up both formats in the store, i would obviously buy the one i will be able to watch on a laptop.
Re:About this... (Score:5, Insightful)
"One single-layer Blu-ray Disc can hold about 25GB or almost two hours of HDTV audio and video, and the dual-layer disc can hold approximately 50GB."
"HD-DVD has a capacity of 15 GB (for dual-sided HD-DVD, maximum capacity would be 30 GB)... The cover layer is, as in the case of the DVD, 0.6 mm thick (unlike the Blu-ray Disc at 0.1 mm). The numerical aperture of the optical pick-up head is accordingly the same as that of DVD player (0.65 mm). These factors mean that HD-DVD media is less expensive to manufacture than Blu-ray, not requiring the re-tooling of disc production lines (as is needed for Blu-ray discs)."
Re:Not really... (Score:3, Insightful)
What good is it to have a format, Mr. Anderson, if you have no software to edit it with?
If I had a dollar for every windows box at Pixar and Lucasfilm, plus 50 cents for every windows box at professional editing houses in NY and LA, I'd have about $4.50.
Film and TV professionals like Apple, trust Apple, and they use Apple.
Oh, and Sony has this little thing called a Playstation, which means (shazam) 50 million blu-ray boxes in homes overnight. Once you have it, might as well buy some movies for it, right?
The only people I see so far supporting HD-DVD are content providers who don't sell hardware or do their own manufacturing. The hardware guys all seem to want Blu-ray.
Places like Paramount want the cheapest option because they have to subcontract manufacturing DVDs. What they sell is intellectual property, they don't really care what format it is on. They do care if the needed price point is more then what their customers want to pay (most casual DVD buyers would balk at a $60 Blu-ray disc, but would probably pay $5 to $10 more for HD-DVD).
Hardware manufacturers like Sony want Blu-ray because they need a killer hook to get you to upgrade (like more storage space). Sony is weird, because they are BOTH kinds of company at once, but they still think of themselves as hardware-oriented. They care a lot about format because they want control over sales, they want licensing fees (if applicable), and, most importantly, they manufacture the players. People JUST bought DVD players 3 or 4 years ago. The only people clamoring for a new format are Movie Professionals and Home Theatre Geeks, who tend to favor Blu-ray for technical advantages. They are willing to drop the $$$$$ on a new player, which means boffo profits for Sony. Paramount sees jack shit from player sales. They want to move as many DVDs as possible, they don't care if you use them as coasters. Sony would rather sell you a new player and 7.1 sound system so you can watch (Paramount movie) Top Gun on it.
Apple is a hardware manufacturer. They want to sell more editing suites and copies of FinalCut Pro. More lines on the screen is not going to be an easy sell with the people who buy their stuff. A big storage jump is.
Re:HD-DVD will win out (Score:2, Insightful)
VHS won out over Beta for one simple reason:porn.
There was more porn available on VHS than there was on Beta (I hear -- I was too young at the time to know for sure). Porn always, always, always drives mass technology adoption.
~jeff
Re:The Real Question (Score:3, Insightful)
I always love it when people give names to products which whould seem to imply that they are "the greatest" only to surpass them within a year or three.
Re:Format Wars (Score:4, Insightful)
The poster was being sarcastic since clearly, no one wants a format war if it can avoided.
100% have iMovie (Score:1, Insightful)
I have a G4 PowerBook and it works great, even in HD mode.
My Concern Either Way is: (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is (and was/still is with DVD) that high data density makes the media far more succeptable to surface imperfections, be they scratches or dirt. Who hasn't sighed in irritation at rental DVD's that skip or blurt? And if you think DVD's are bad, just think for a minute about an optical media with 10 times the data density! Until synthetic diamond becomes cheap enough to coat consumer level optical discs with, I look forward to the return of our Caddy-Carrying Overloards.
Either that or there needs to be some SERIOUS error correction implemented. The average consumer just isn't going to want to handle a movie like it was a precious peice of china. Without some solution to this problem neither media will catch on with me. Maybe "they" are just planing on selling you a new copy of the disc every six months, but archivers and folks who use the media for data storage are not gonna like that.
Re:And that is why... (Score:3, Insightful)
Due to multiple hardware manufacturers in the X86 world, there was not much drive to leave legacy connection tech.
Oh yeah, the first iMacs didn't have Firewire. That came with the B/W G3 towers.
Re:HD-DVD will win out (Score:2, Insightful)
Wouldn't that be better than:
Consumer: You mean FinalCut Pro is on a HD-DVD-ROM? I wonder how much extra HD footage they can get on a DVD.
HD-DVD is a confusing name. It makes the inappropriate association of a possible content on the optical format.
Re:Market Share (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:HD-DVD will win out (Score:1, Insightful)
If you wanted Beta, your choices were Sony, Sony, or Sony. There were other licensees, but sales were dismal and those other vendors either switched to VHS or left the VCR market completely.
Every other CE company sold VHS, every store sold VHS. It was obvious that once you picked Beta, Sony had you locked in and could charge higher prices for replacement mechines. When I bought my first-generation VCR, I didn't even look at technical specs, I looked at the number of vendors competing for my dollars. I picked VHS, and wasn't surprised when Beta failed as a consumer format.
Sony has failed every time that they try the proprietary strategy, and succeeded when they partnered with someone else who insisted on a 'bigger pie, not bigger piece' strategy. The Sony-Philips CD joint venture succeeded because Philips insisted on reasonable royalties. Philips had learned from the Compact Cassette, where they used their patents to enforce standards for interoperation, not to collect revenue.
Sony has partners for Blu-Ray, and I hope that those partners prevent Sony from making another blunder. Sony comes up with good technology, but every time that they try to control a market, they kill it instead.
Sony controls both sides (Score:2, Insightful)
The other thing Blu-Ray has going for it is that Sony has a big stake in both sides of the equation.
If Sony DVD players only support Blu-Ray, it will be difficult for other content-publishers to ignore that market share, particularly since the movie-studios really don't have a dog in this fight.
Then, Sony is also a major studio, soon to own MGM as well. If Sony only produces it's content in Blu-Ray format, the other electronic manufacturers will have to support it and create hardware that will support either format. Unlike Universal Studios and Paramount, etc, Sony can get away with this because they do have a dog in this fight, that being their electronics division.
So, Sony Pictures will be willing to give up some market share to support the format, whereas the other studios supporting HD-DVD ultimately will not be willing, since they don't have any stake in the other side of the equation.
The only reason the other studios are even chiming in on this discussion is because they are trying to limit the power of Sony. They have no significant vested interest as Sony does.
If Sony manages to get the hardware makers producers players that support both formats, it will only be a matter of time before nobody produces anything but Blu-Ray content.
Perhaps a format war is a good thing (Score:3, Insightful)
By the time DVD burners reached a price point I could afford, all the format issues had been worked out. Sure, my first drive (Pioneer 104) was -R only, but by that point which format you had didn't really make difference.
Video professionals aren't using Betamax (Score:3, Insightful)
Sony Professional has certainly made enough profit on those formats to make up for the Betamax losses by now.
I just dont understand (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:um? (Score:1, Insightful)
For Hollywood, this is a nightmare. They want something that holds only a movie. One side, 4.7 GB DVD, MPEG 2, and the other, an MPEG 4 file, either H.264 or WM9. Both with new DRM. Probably network verification. The marketer's dream.
Blu-Ray, working with short wavelengths, is the way to go. More bandwidth, more storage, for whatever. One layer for one movie, next on for another? SHD (super-high-def)? It might even last as a format for 20 years or so, until the 3D cubes. HD-DVD is will be overdone before it comes out. I smell a DiVX -- and not the software kind, that stupid DVD format that failed. Oh, how stupid are these people? They're testing stuff like a DVD that last a couple days, and then fades out. (Gee. I copy it when I get home from the store. One copy cheaper than it was over the net. Finished in 10 minutes.)
That HD-DVD ad campaign is such transparent FUD and bullying. "One format rules all." Nonsense. The studios will lose if they try to impose their marketing model on the new model.
What is a 200 GB, recordable medium in each home? A new medium.
Offered the difference between a backbone connection or a 56K dialup, which do you pick?
Re:Apple as an indicator of future dominance. (Score:1, Insightful)
USB was on PCs long before it was on the iMac. The rise of USB occurred as the number of PCs with USB ports attained critical mass. The fact that the iMac was released around that time is basically coincidental.
Firewire has (sadly) failed to attain critical mass - the market for it is driven by DV cameras though, not apple. Floppy-less machines are the result of the USB thumb drive and blank CDs at $0.20/piece.
Apple does not drive hardware standards.