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SLI Primer 275

GFXguy writes "If you are looking to catch up on some hardware learning you may want to check out "SL Why?". It is a short article that goes over the basics of SLI graphics. The article goes over some strengths and weaknesses of this technology as well. It looks like one video card is not going to cut it any more, at least for the hardcore gamers out there. "
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SLI Primer

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  • Re:Voodoo (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Jedi Alec ( 258881 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:15AM (#11802452)
    Well, yes, I do indeed. a 12Meg Voodoo 2 i hijacked from work for a while to complement my lowly S3 Virge...quite an improvement indeed :)
  • by Thai-Pan ( 414112 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:20AM (#11802506) Journal
    The article claims first that you need a $250 motherboard to run SLI (apparently a $75 premium for SLI), and second that you need to pay a large premium for SLI-compatible cards, which are next to impossible to find.

    I'm running a $160 motherboard with two 6800GTs that I picked up for a good price at my local shop. They did not have a single PCIe 6600 or 6800 board there that wasn't SLI compatible.
  • Why not dual core? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by glitch0 ( 859137 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:22AM (#11802528) Homepage
    Is it just me, or does this seem like a waste of space? CPU technology is heading towards dual core, doesn't this seem like the next step for video cards?

    Personally, I wouldn't buy a SLI cardset. Top of the line video cards are already $500. What kind of person really needs that much fps or resolution? It gets beyond a point of recognition, where the difference is so small that it isn't noticed. The only real reason people would spend that much money is for bragging rights, which is an absurd principle to spend money on.
  • Oh Yeah! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nrlightfoot ( 607666 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:23AM (#11802532) Homepage
    The first time I ever had a video card upgrade was with an SLI add on card on my old 120mhz intel. There where clouds in mechwarrior after I installed it!
  • Re:AFR / SFR error (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Kaihaku ( 663794 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:24AM (#11802551) Homepage
    The real question is who would want to play Doom3 anyway? Graphics are wonderful and all, although honestly I wasn't that impressed, but what about gameplay or prehaps a story that doesn't remind one of a mix of the original Half-life and System Shock with some hell through in for kicks. I was much, much more impressed with the physics engine of Half-life 2 than with anything graphically I saw in Doom 3.

    I'm one of those people who believe that this rush for graphical perfect will be dying slowly over the next decade. Eventually, we'll reach a point where graphics are as good as they're going to get on a monitor. VR, here we come, right? Well...in any case, for now I'm going to have to suffer through this focus on graphics and wonder when gamers are going to start focusing more on the plot and gameplay as opposed to pretty new shiny things on screen and the impressive rendering of blood effects.
  • Why SLI? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by caryw ( 131578 ) <carywiedemann@@@gmail...com> on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:25AM (#11802559) Homepage
    For the serious gamer how about something like a cell [slashdot.org] GPU? Why not? It should be entirely possible. Or maybe even a dual-core GPU. Anything that is possible with the CPU is also with the GPU. It's just a microprocessor with a different instruction set. That being said, why can't we plug "CPU cards" into eachother for automatic performance increases? How much of this is limitation on technology and how much are the big players stifling innovation in the market?
    - Cary
    --Fairfax Underground [fairfaxunderground.com]: Where Fairfax County comes out to play
  • by cubase_dag ( 827101 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:25AM (#11802563) Homepage
    Sure 80-90% of the "consumer" market. But what about that 100% of the 20-10% that are classifiable as gamers. Oh, and lets not forget that massive category of engineers, scientists, architects, and other professions that use 3d graphics heavily. When this technology was created it was not aimed at the general consumer market... it was aimed at the gamer and professional market. So to them it doesn't really matter if your average "Joe Blow" consumer doesn't use it, but that the core group of gamers and professionals uses it
  • Asinine (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Dragoon412 ( 648209 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:31AM (#11802624)
    It looks like one video card is not going to cut it any more, at least for the hardcore gamers out there.

    What a stupid comment.

    Currently, the best video performance out there is a pair of 6800 Ultras in SLI, it's true, but that's also well over $1000 in video hardware alone.

    Meanwhile, single-card solutions like the X850XT PE are capable of chewing through anything you can throw at them with admirable performance.

    SLI is a lot like the tablet PC: a solution in search of a problem. Sure, it's a cool idea, but in practice, not terribly useful and very much overpriced.

    Compare, for instance, a pair of 6600GTs running SLI:

    $175 for each card; $350 total. Another $50 for the premium on a SLI mainboard.

    Now you've got additional heat, additional power draw, two seperate cards, and the hassle of dealing with SLI drivers when, for $100 less, you could purchase a single X800XL and enjoy superior performance [tomshardware.com].

    SLI may become worthwhile in the future, but for now, it's the exclusive domain of chumps and the e-penis crowd.
  • by ergo98 ( 9391 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:32AM (#11802629) Homepage Journal
    You do realize, don't you, that super duper hyper mondo killa consoles that will eviscerate PCs and put an end to them for gaming once and for all has been predicted for about two decades now?

    Amazing how everything old is new again. Everything under the sun.
  • Re:Voodoo (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Ford Prefect ( 8777 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:34AM (#11802640) Homepage
    Well, yes, I do indeed. a 12Meg Voodoo 2 i hijacked from work for a while to complement my lowly S3 Virge...quite an improvement indeed :)

    The old 3dfx 'SLI' thing involved not one but two Voodoo 2 cards, in addition to the conventional 2D graphics card - unless you happened to hijack a second, matching 3D card, you won't have had SLI... :-)
  • by MtViewGuy ( 197597 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:35AM (#11802652)
    I remember when people poo-pooed onboard video as pretty much useless.

    But Intel's very latest onboard graphics chipset is fairly good, and the latest onboard graphics from nVidia's motherboard chipsets are getting fairly good, too. Now, if we can just get VIA to upgrade their onboard graphics....
  • by TrippTDF ( 513419 ) <{moc.liamg} {ta} {dnalih}> on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:38AM (#11802675)
    I bet it's more than that... your typical computer user is never going to need high-end graphics the way a gamer is (not until GUIs start taking advantage and interfaces change (think SphereXP). PC gaming is becoming similar to car racing as far as I am concerned. It's going to turn it into an industry for a small niche market. Watch games like Half-life go up in price to the $100 range in the next 5 years, as their margins drop and they become products only for this niche market of gamers that seem to have no problem throwing money at hardware/computers.
  • by chris09876 ( 643289 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:45AM (#11802739)
    Actually I have (It was 2.5 years later). I couldn't find the match, but I was able to find two newer processors that were better *and* cheaper than I paid for the original one =) They weren't top-of-the-line, but acceptable for my needs. Hardware is great like that... the costs are continuously declining.

    The same thing might happen with graphics cards. If you can use two mediocre cards instead of one big beefy card, it's possible you might be able to save yourself some money.
  • by dbretton ( 242493 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:49AM (#11802778) Homepage

    I suppose this may be true if you are a fan of Grand Turismo. However, aside from that, consoles just don't cut the muster. MMORPG and FPS games don't play very well on consoles when compared to their PC counterpart. Even the "greatest" console FPS, Halo, is just mediocre on the PC.

    As far as console first development goes...
    Here's a list of PC games that are still not released for the consoles: Doom 3, Half-Life 2, World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, Far Cry, Painkiller.
  • by raygundan ( 16760 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:51AM (#11802791) Homepage
    "No, gamers have always been much worse than audiophiles. "

    You're kidding, right? Audiophiles are off the deep end. I don't think you have ever seen an *actual* audiophile-- you're mixing them up with people who like stereos. Audiophiles do things like buy $3000 cables. Or put all their components on 200lb. granite blocks or $600-per-component magnetic levitation dampers to ease vibration. Power conditioners. Huge stacks of tube amps. Subwoofers that require special basement rooms to be built to act as the box.

    In the worst cases, the quest for perfect audio goes so far as to become pointless. There's an article I wish I could find for you about one particularly off-the-deep-end audiophile who paid so much for the system he used to listen to classical recordings that had he kept the money, he would have had enough to bring the *actual orchestra* to his house to play for him regularly, for years. Say what you want about huge stereos, but if it gets to the point where you can afford to bring the source home with you, you don't need reproduction.

    The worst gamers can't hope to touch this. The most expensive rig on the market with a massive hang-on-the-wall plasma or whatever as your huge monitor is still just a drop in the bucket compared to people who will spend $3000 on three feet of speaker cable. And unlike some of the audiophile quackery, at least a fast machine has measurable performance gains. Try convincing a real engineer that your $1000 power cable makes a detectable difference in sound quality.

    For your reference, as a guide to the levels this insanity can reach:

    $23,000 for a pair of 8-foot speaker cables [consumerreview.com]

    $75,000 per speaker [wisdomaudio.com]

    $40 silver-plated electrical outlet [audiophilia.com] (because... ummm... you can't just use any old outlet with the next item:)

    $1000 5-foot AC power cable [audiophilia.com]

    There's much worse. Try pricing out monoblock tube amps. Keep in mind they're not just going to buy one per channel (the minimum), but probably one per *driver* (as in, three per speaker if you have a woofer, mid, and tweeter).
  • Superior... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by dbretton ( 242493 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @11:55AM (#11802843) Homepage

    And Inferior Performance [tomshardware.com].

    Same article, two pages earlier.

    Oh yeah, and the cheapest you can find an X800 XL is $350, not $200/300.
  • Re:Superior... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dragoon412 ( 648209 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @12:00PM (#11802891)
    CompUSA is using the MSRP; you can pick up the ATi-manufactured one there for $300.

    Point being, the 6600 GT is the most credible instance of an SLI implimentation. The cost/performance of a pair of 6800 GTs or 6800 Ultras compared to a single X850XT PE is just laughably bad.
  • by JustNiz ( 692889 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @12:04PM (#11802942)
    Unfortunately most specs out there just demonstrate how cpu-limited the 2 6800 Ultras in SLI are.

    Even for a single 6800 ultra, the figures you see are *slightly* lower than ATI X800 in most benchmarks because the ATI deals *slightly* better with being CPU-limited. Those results have usually got nothing to do with maximum GPU performance because they often test at stupidly low res's like 640x400 or 800x600.

    Instead, look at the figures at the highest resolutions, where Nvidia still creams ATI.

    Actually the main reason I'm going to buy Nvidia (again) is that ATI still don't take Linux drivers seriously.

  • Re:Asinine (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dragoon412 ( 648209 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @12:06PM (#11802963)
    Did you even bother to look at the benchmarks I linked?

    Your 19" LCD is native to 1280x1024, which is a fairly low resolution. By adding a second 6800 GT, even with AA and AF cranked up, you can't hope to get anything near double the performance. If you get even an extra 15% to your framerate, I'd be amazed.

    And again, dual core CPUs won't be coming anywhere near doubling your performance. They're essentially SMP on a single chip. They'll help with compiling, yes, but gaming? It amounts to a lot of nothing.

    And for the record, the "slowest" 939 A64 is the 3000+, which you can actually pick up in Winchester core, too. Apparently, you didn't do much research into building this rig of yours.
  • Interface (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Craig Ringer ( 302899 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @12:42PM (#11803376) Homepage Journal
    For me, that's just it - the interface. Higher resolution helps, as does my pro quality 19" monitor, but it's the interface that's the killer.

    Show me a mouse that ships with a keyboard and mouse so console developers can *rely* on them being present, and I might care about console games. Hell, just the mouse would do, though mouse-and-controller would be more than a tad clumsy :S

    As it is, I find most games I care about (RTS, strategy games, and games like Deus Ex and System Shock II) either don't exist for consoles, or are pathetic hollow shells of their former selves. Deus Ex II: Invisible War, anybody?

    The upgrade cycle and low starting price would be attractive, but I don't find it too bad with my desktop. Then again, I don't buy top end gear, so I'm usually in the lower middle of the requirements and performance bracket. This is helped by the fact that I often play older games.

    When it comes to developers building for consoles first, I'm painfully aware of that. I often fire up a game demo for something really interesting, and it has a bloody console interface or is written with the assumption that the user will be confined by console input devices. Especially in FPS games, this is *incredibly* annoying.

    Call me a bigot, but if all I can get is console games, I'll just stop buying games. There are a lot of old, good games out there - and I'm gaming less these days anyway. I play games for fun, and I don't find console UIs fun.
  • by stuffisgood ( 666330 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @01:10PM (#11803633)
    Honestly, I don't see how consoles will EVER cause an end to PC gaming. The fact that some games "just play better" on a PC combined with the slow release cycle of a console (let's just say on average about 5 years) means that eventually, towards the end of a consoles lifecycle, PCs will catch up and beat the crap out of them, just like they always had. I remember 4 years ago my top-of-the-line PC was playing games far inferior in all round experience to my much cheaper Xbox console. But now the tides have turned and my mid range PC is now producing a much better experience.
  • by billstewart ( 78916 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @01:21PM (#11803761) Journal
    I went to college before CDs came out (:-) so audiophiles back then were optimizing vinyl-player systems. After doing some sidewalk construction on my fraternity house, we were left with a number of big hunks of slate, fairly flat on top and weighing maybe 100 pounds. One of the guys used it as a stand for his turntable, set on top of cinder blocks, and it was fairly resistant to people dancing nearby. He mostly listened to classical music, and while his system wasn't high-end audiophile gear, he'd reached the point that he could pretty much hear anything the orchestra was playing - and spending more money to cut out the next little bit of distortion was nowhere near as effective as getting records of better orchestras with better conductors, because hearing the Boring Strings Orchestra slightly better wasn't going to improve their playing any, while getting Furtwangler or Stachowski conducting the Berlin Philharmonic was going to sound better even if the vinyl was old and scratchy.

    I had that room the following year and used the slate as a plant stand :-)

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