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Linux Business Portables Software Hardware Linux

Walmart Expands Low-End Linux Notebook Offerings 384

startleman writes "A story on Tom's Hardware reports that Walmart apparently will offer a Linare-equipped notebook below the $500 mark. Manufacturer Linare said that it will bring a Linux-based device to the retailer 'within the next few days.' Specs include an AMD Athlon 1800+, a 40 GByte harddrive, 128 MByte memory, a CD-ROM drive, an Ethernet port and the firm's Linare OS as well as Open Office."
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Walmart Expands Low-End Linux Notebook Offerings

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  • fp (Score:0, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 04, 2005 @11:29PM (#11579885)
    This will not be powerful enough for today's standards.
  • Typical user? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Dancin_Santa ( 265275 ) <DancinSanta@gmail.com> on Friday February 04, 2005 @11:34PM (#11579924) Journal
    If you want a laptop, you usually want to use it for work, you know, to have a mobile computer away from your main desktop.

    Now, most people use Windows or Mac for their primary desktop. Hardly any users that buy their computers at Walmart are running Linux on their main machine. So what are they going to do with this laptop? It's not really compatible with their standard machine.

    My best guess is that the hardware is basic enough that they can probably install Win98 on it with very little trouble. This is a computer for software license violaters, in that case.
  • Put it in the store! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by shumacher ( 199043 ) on Friday February 04, 2005 @11:36PM (#11579933)
    Seriously Bentonville, put these super-cheap machines in the stores. Not because they will fail to create a train wreck. I've been in your stores - talked to you people - I know it will be a train wreck. Bring these items to your stores for me. Bring them to the store so I can see Linux move into mainstream big box retail. Bring them into the store because that will drive some interesting competition.

    Thank you.
  • by astrashe ( 7452 ) on Friday February 04, 2005 @11:38PM (#11579946) Journal
    Are the drivers for these things freely available?

    Sometimes when you buy a linux machine, it comes with binary drivers that make it hard to run with a mainstream distro.

  • Re:Typical user? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by astrashe ( 7452 ) on Friday February 04, 2005 @11:45PM (#11579991) Journal
    But this is being sold through the web site, not at the stores. Most of the people who buy them probably read about them here at slashdot. I doubt that they sell very many.

    I tend to see this as one giant corporate bully giving another giant corporate bully notice. Walmart pushes everyone they buy from to lower their prices. This is just their way of trying to muscle MS.

    Before Christmas, I saw a complete HP system at Wal-Mart for $468. It was a WinXP box with 256MB of RAM and a monitor. It even came with a CD burner.

    Wal-Mart's just trying to break through that price level. It probably ain't going to happen unless MS takes a smaller cut.

  • Low End Trend? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Ian Action ( 836876 ) on Friday February 04, 2005 @11:45PM (#11579993)
    My only worry is that the average, everday consumer will see Linux only on low end machines and equate the operating system with cheapness. And I don't mean "cheap" as in cost, but in terms of quality.
  • by aztektum ( 170569 ) on Friday February 04, 2005 @11:58PM (#11580064)
    If it's Linare and Wal*Mart then what's this [linspire.com] about??
  • Re:fp? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by HermanAB ( 661181 ) on Friday February 04, 2005 @11:58PM (#11580068)
    Exactly - till some @$$h0le broke into my office and stole my beloved Stinkpad, 650MHz and 128MB RAM with a 10GB HDD worked just fine for me - though I must add that I mostly ran IceWM, not KDE, though KDE worked OK too.

    Most people who complain about speed, complains about start-up times, which isn't a problem on Linux, since you can start all the applications you need and leave them running forever. There is no need to quit an application - just switch desktops.

    If you use Linux, then you should think Linux - if you use Linux in single tasking mode as if it is a MS Winblows machine and is forever starting and quitting programs, then you deserve to suffer...

  • by quan74 ( 451034 ) on Friday February 04, 2005 @11:59PM (#11580078) Homepage
    From looking at the screenshots (http://www.linare.com/screenshots.php [linare.com]) it looks like it's probably based on Red Hat (uses Disk Druid, and the same "time zone" selection screen as Red Hat anyway.

    I agree, they seem rather fishy, I can't find any reference to GPL or ANY license for that matter on their site, even when trying to purchase the product. According to their list of software they are also including some commercial apps (i.e. RealPlayer). I would think they are legally obligated to include some sort of licensing info up front.

    My 2 cents anyway...
  • by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:05AM (#11580108)
    That's just KDE with a fugly skin, you know. Just look at the KDE Control Center. [linare.com] See the "apply settings on KDE startup" checkbox?
  • by KarmaBlackballed ( 222917 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:06AM (#11580116) Homepage Journal
    USB is pretty fundamental, I hope it was just a typo. I would consider buying one of these as long as it includes at least one USB port.

    Something else that looked strange: Linare said it will ship "more than 1000 notebooks" to Walmart stores in the US.

    We are talking about all of the USA. Doesn't 1000 seem like a rather small number? That is NOT a real Walmart level shipment of product. What is that all about? (Considering the margins are small on this thing, the total profit on that volume would probably not even buy a street legal used car here in the USA.) They might as well have said they will ship more than a dozen notebooks.
  • Power!!! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nick Wilson ( 153000 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:09AM (#11580133) Homepage
    Some say it's not powerful enough for today's standards, and aside from the RAM, I agree. Boost it to 256, and it's plenty. I'm typing this on a Sotec (now Averatec) 3120X laptop, purchased from a Wal-Mart (employee discount... I know, I suck, but it was $720 instead of $998), Celeron 1.2Ghz, 256M, 20G HD, and a DVD/CDRW. No legacy ports, just 3 USB, a winmodem (I'm told there are drivers, but never needed them), ethernet and 1 PCMCIA slot. Operating system is Gentoo, 100% MS Free. The only thing that is slow is compiling from source...
    Now for gaming, my laptop and these machines are not good, but for a student who needs OpenOffice and net, or someone who wants mobility away from their gaming desktop... why not?
  • by hajihill ( 755023 ) <haji_hill@hotm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:10AM (#11580142) Journal
    For a simple machine that would allow me to do some basic development work at a local coffee shop this thing could work out nicely.

    I like my desktops, and have stayed there so far, but something like this could almost convince me to try my hands at a mobile work/hobby environment. Hell, the lack of wireless would not only make it more secure, but less of a distraction than my laptop usually proves to be.

    Whether or not I get one, there is plenty of reason to believe this machine is a good thing, much as the $100 PC Projects that have been touted by several groups as the next great humanitarian effort and have been reported here on here on Slashdot.
  • by gelfling ( 6534 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:29AM (#11580233) Homepage Journal
    I wonder about a notebook priced for students that many universities wouldn't permit on their networks - not being XPpro. Now I'm sure many of you will say I'm crazy but I know for example that the UNC will not, with rare exceptions, permit a non XPpro machine in. They sniff you and if they find noncompliance they shut off the port.

    Moreover does it have at least wireless drivers built in? Retrofitting Linux drivers into a notebook machine for a PCCard NIC is not a pretty sight even for well known distros that support it. And if I can't at least use wireless at home then a notebook is largely useless to me.

    It's really $600 for a 256MB RAM unit.

    Last but not least how does this compare with a more mainstream refurbished notebook machine? This unit is a little on the low end side and compares with maybe a 2-3 year old maintstream unit.
  • Old news (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Legion303 ( 97901 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:39AM (#11580277) Homepage
    They've been selling these on walmart.com for a long time now. Reviews say the laptops are flimsy and cheaply-built, and there was a problem with advertising at first because the supplier lied to Wal-Mart about the specs and allegedly hacked the BIOS to report a higher CPU speed than what was actually installed.

    These things also don't have a PCMCIA slot, so if all you need is a cheap wireless laptop that runs sluggishly, this might be a good deal for you. I should note that linux runs fine on my $350 Ebayed P3 Thinkpad, though.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:40AM (#11580281)
    In economic theory a commodity is something which has many producers and many buyers. The other defining characteristic is that one producer's goods are not much different than any other producer's. Commodities usually have quite low margins because it doesn't matter who you buy them from so you can shop for the lowest price.

    The things that make laptops expensive are no longer as special as they were a short while ago. 15" LCDs are now a couple of hundred bucks. Run of the mill hard drives are becoming smaller and smaller. NiMH batteries are quite good and are much cheaper than more exotic types. The result is that laptops should be not a lot more expensive than desktops in the near future.

    When IBM sold their laptop operation it was because they saw the writing on the wall. We're beginning to see lots of small companies producing laptops. We aren't quite at the point of being able to assemble your own laptop from parts but we're getting close. Desktops have been a commodity for a long time; laptops soon will be.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:41AM (#11580288)
    That's funny, my uni won't let any students plug in a windows machine in to the network (xp = dangerous).

    In answer to your question, the $600 version has "wireless support".

    Also, I don't think this is really all that low-end, it's a 1.8ghz processor, the 256 ram is "nice" but upgrade that to 512 and you've got a very nice laptop on your hands (for cheap).
  • by r.jimenezz ( 737542 ) <rjimenezh@@@gmail...com> on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:42AM (#11580294)
    This can probably be done better with a used laptop from Ebay/relatives/oneself, but...

    Imagine someone having several computers in their home. Maybe one of these laptops could be used as a relatively cheap file/backup/mail server. Throw in a PCMCIA card and you may even use it as a gateway or firewall.

    The reason I say it's cheap, by the way, is the form factor. Naturally a desktop system with similar or better specs would be even cheaper. But this seems to me it's cheaper than other alternatives with comparable form factors. You could configure this laptop to run with the lid closed and that gives you a relatively sleek box which also draws little power.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:42AM (#11580295)
    at rutgers, it's easier to get online in linux than windows. with windows you have to run some complicated verification program to make sure you don't have a bunch of viruses clogging up the network. with linux, they just let you right on.
  • by Mike626 ( 70084 ) <injoke@gmailLAPLACE.com minus math_god> on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:44AM (#11580300) Homepage
    I recognize the foolishness of "Buy-American" viewpoints, and protectionist economies clearly stagnate over time, but the evidence suggests that Walmart does not strengthen enconomies large or small in the long term.

    What they do seem to do rather effectively, is fuel price races to the bottom in every field they enter. This can't be good for any community. I would rather pay a few dollars more to buy a product from a local business, or a local geek to provide the same product or service.

    http://injoke.org/index.php?title=daily_show_wal_m art_piece [injoke.org]

  • by MoOsEb0y ( 2177 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:47AM (#11580314)
    My university exploit scans new machines on the network and won't let you on unless you've installed patches (focused at windows). I and many many others have used linux with much sucess on a variety of platforms supported by linux.
  • Re:Tech specs. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Limecron ( 206141 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @12:59AM (#11580362)
    What would call "1 x IEEE 1394 port"? Umm... Oh yeah, FireWire. :)

    And it would be truly amazing to have a FireWire port, and no USB ports. Though what's truly disappointing is no built-in wireless. I worry about PC Card wireless adapters getting snapped off, and if there's no USB... And really, the whole point of a laptop these days is wireless.

    Feh, oh well, for less than $500 maybe it's worth it. Then again... :)
  • by metlin ( 258108 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @01:01AM (#11580369) Journal
    Yeah, but Universities usually allow you to download a student edition for free.

    For instance, my school (GTech) allows us to download XP Pro if you are enrolled as a student in some of the departments.
  • by teslatug ( 543527 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @01:04AM (#11580380)
    What happened to the "people use windows because it came with their computer" rationale for Windows' dominance in the desktop OS market?
  • by J_Omega ( 709711 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @01:06AM (#11580392)
    Considering that Mr. and Mrs. Mainstream do indeed shop at WalMart, I hope the same.

    I've seen MANY un-PC-edumacated people kicking away on Windows boxes that never changed the default wallpaper. The Linare puke-green-flem-ball pic wouldn't (L)inspire me to even WANT to use that PC.

    Anyhews, I hope this goes over well regardless. Seeing more and more cheap boxes with Linux preinstalled is DoublePlusGood, right?
  • Just say no! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by SparklingClearWit ( 792141 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @01:15AM (#11580430)
    Seriously. This is just a way for Wal-Mart to eliminate more competition - Dell, Gateway, HP, et. al, and 'embrace and extend' another market.

    Wal-Mart isn't saving you money. Spend a little more and buy a used Powerbook, or a stripped-down Dell.

    The less people that shop and buy at Wal-Mart, the better off this whole country will be.
  • by SarahKatt ( 856591 ) <lolitakatsarah AT gmail DOT com> on Saturday February 05, 2005 @01:29AM (#11580490)
    This machine is obviously geared toward getting Linux "Out there" to people who are Lin-curious but not confident enough to fly solo on their primary PC, and also I suspect Wal-Mart is trying to reach the power-user market by offering a machine without the costs of Windows involved.

    This is all well and good. If you have $500 to burn and want to experiment with a proprietary version of Linux, this is your bag. For the rest of us, I'd suggest visiting your friendly garage sale or used computer depot for a good solid 750mhz PC to throw Fedora on for grandma and grandpa who are Lin-curious. Power Users that don't want to give Microsoft their share of PC sales cash have options. Build your own machine even.

    So this leaves this option kind of in the air. The only reason I would see to buy it, would be to get a fully functional system, format, and install Gentoo.

    Nice try, but not quite home-calibur Linux <b>yet</b>.
  • still expensive (2) (Score:3, Interesting)

    by delirium of disorder ( 701392 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @01:32AM (#11580500) Homepage Journal
    Over two years ago I bought a Toshiba laptop at Best Buy:

    14 inch LCD
    DVD drive
    56k modem
    10/100 ethernet
    2 pcmcia slots
    ATI radeon (works fine with linux opengl drivers) 256 megs ram (I upgraded to 512)
    1.5ghz PIV
    Windows XP Home (formated it and installed Debian
    3 usb (version 1 not 2 unfortunatly) ports.

    The only thing that sucked was the soundcard/speakers and the Microsoft tax. It only cost $600. Acording to moore's law (I know technecally it's about density, not price or performance) that kind of computer should be down to $300 by now (half price at the 18 month mark, and I give it a little extra leway.) Other machines have gone WAY down in price. I just bought a sun machine:
    2 gig ram
    4 way SMP (450mhz each)
    4 redundant power supplies
    It cost me $200 and runs solaris 10 great. It would have cost me at least $2,000 two years ago. Why is PC hardware, particularly laptops, still so expensive? On the high end the specs are going up so the price/performance ratio is higher, but at the low end, things have stagnated or even gotten more expensive. Cheap laptops cost more now then they did years ago. New SD-RAM is more expensive then it used to be and often more expensive then faster DDR RAM. CPU performance has also grown slowly in the low end dispite the constant clockspeed increeses. It took the desktop over a decade since the technology was available (the mips R4000 came out in 1991) to go 64 bit.

    Intel is certainly part of the problem in spite of their recent 180 on the mhz myth and adoption of AMD64 for the Xeon. I have a pentium II 450mhz system with 512k L2 cache, and a PA-RISC system with 1.5meg L1 cache. I even have an ancient sgi Indy with a 200mhz mips processor with 1meg cache. Why do new Celerons still only have 256k L2 cache and PIVs only have 1meg L2 cache? Up to about 2 megs you will still get significant performance increeses by adding more cache. I understand the Itanium2 has a 9meg on chip L3 cache, and I'm sure that's one of the reasons its price/performance ratio stucks ass. However, there is a happy medium between the PIV and Itanium when it commed to cache. AMD is in the same boat with a 1meg L2 on the Athlon64.

    Microsoft is part of the problem, but this certainly isn't the case for this walmart computer. It might be a step in the right direction, but the industry can produce better desktops and laptops cheaper.
  • Re:Warranty? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Baricom ( 763970 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @01:42AM (#11580536)
    If Wal-Mart.com's return policy [walmart.com] is the same as its stores, it doesn't hold a candle to Costco's [costco.com].

    It takes a gutsy business to promise to refund almost everything it sells, in any condition, ever, in cash (even if you pay with a credit card, as I usually do). They've made a lot of money from me because of it.
  • Re:No USB ports? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BrookHarty ( 9119 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @02:01AM (#11580625) Journal
    Did they forget to list it, or do they really think a notebook without a USB port would actually sell?

    The photo has 4 USB's ports, but I dont show the Firewire, wonder if its the same model...
  • I run Window Maker. It uses 800kB of RAM (this is why a pixmap-only theme, the default config uses 300kB). I used to have a 166Mhz Pentium box with 48M of RAM (96M swap) and it was Window Maker + Konqueror (2.something) + Gaim + xchat + emacs fine. Mozilla wasn't touchable (then again, there was no Firefox at the time and M17 was sloooowwww). Compile times were slow but reasonable for a system of its speed. Things sped up a bit when I made the background a solid color instead of a pixmap (and used a non-pixmap theme in Window Maker).

    If you run a smallish window manager and have at least 48M of RAM (one of the 16M SIMMs went bad so I had to swap memory around and ended up at only 32M after convincing my friend that his Indy didn't need RAM and then it wasn't usable) everything will run fine. OO.o will be basically unusable (at least 641b was, it's certainly better now since 641b is ancient) but KOffice and Applixware Office (yeah, remember that? It was $30 and kind of worth it...SHELF is neat little programming language at least) run great. Eventually I was able to snatch some PC66 for free and got up to 64M with a blazingly fast (note that this was 2001ish so you should laugh) K6/233Mhz and the system was very usable.

    I actually ran Quake 3 at around 25fps @ 640x480x16 after I replaced the TrioV64+ with a Voodoo3. Team Arena and Solider of Fortune weren't really playable though. Heretic II got above 40fps and I wasted way too much time on that (This was when Loki games were going for $10 a pop at EBGames). Sim City 3k didn't run well at all, even with 64M (funny how the one 2D game needed more RAM than the 3d ones...).

    The point is, 128M of RAM is a lot. Not when you are running KDE 3 or GNOME 2 on it, but if you stick to running Window Maker (or Fluxbox, IceWM, XFCE, etc.) and using Konqueror or Mozilla (or Galeon or Firefox) it will work fine. OO.o might not be too happy but KOffice works fine unless you need to do super heavy duty word processing. You might be surprised at how well KDE/GNOME apps run when you aren't running the entire desktop environment.

    If it weren't Walmart (which I refuse to shop at for ethical reasons, they are an evil evil company) I'd be tempted to buy one of these and throw Debian onto it.

    Note that I still run Window Maker even though I have a dual AthlonMP 2800+ system with a gig of RAM :-)

  • Re:Tech specs. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 05, 2005 @03:26AM (#11580914)
    The people looking to buy something in this price range are unlikely to have a home wireless network or be able to afford a wireless ISP. It's all about the target market.

    I'm assuming the USB omission was a typo. They didn't state that it had a PS/2 mouse port, keyboard connector or power connection either; I think this is just implied.
  • by b17bmbr ( 608864 ) on Saturday February 05, 2005 @03:51AM (#11580988)
    i have a laptop like that, an old CTX K62-300 w/128mb ram. truth is, machines like this aren't really that good for development because the keyboard sucks and the screen is crappy. my guess is that a
    as for wifi, you can get a cheap linksys pc card for $30. a $100 or so PC is a different issue, as the monitor and keyboard are separate. problem with laptops is, and has always been, ergonomics. cheap comes at a price. honestly, unless you're doing windows development, and since this laptop runs linux so you won't be, get an old ibook or thinkpad on ebay. for the same price you're getting much better hardware and the performance hit is minor unless you're rendering a 30MB photoshop file or something. my 700mhz G3 ibook is still great for tons of stuff, and you can pick them up on ebay for around $600. an ibm 700-900mhz P3 goes for around $400. these were once top of the line, with the better screens, keyboards, hard drives, etc., not bottom barrel crap thrown together for a few sheckels. pennywise and pound foolish. i'll tkae older quality over newer crap any day of the week.
  • The alternative (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Brendor ( 208073 ) <brendan@e.gmail@com> on Saturday February 05, 2005 @04:38AM (#11581129) Journal
    Hey, I'm PROUD to wear a $6 t-shirt made by slave labor in China... Oh wait, I'm NOT, but every other sotre is out of business now...

    Unfortunately The question is whether people want to pay thrice the competitors' price for clothing made here in the US or any where else with well compensated workers. No I don't work for American Aparel [americanapparelstore.com] but their ads caught my attention a while back. I was dismayed they did not do online shopping but that has since changed.

    As for the topic at hand, the moral disadvantages of buying an especially cheap computer are perhaps counter-balanced by the environmental advantages of buying a small form factor machine?

  • mac mini killer (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 05, 2005 @11:31AM (#11582540)
    Hey it's a noteboook so it's kind of small form factor, portable, cost the same as a mac mini, but this one comes with a screen. The specs are about the same for both machines.

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