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Robotics Science

Robot Makers Say World Cup Will Be Theirs By 2050 345

Posted by timothy from the our-new-robotic-goalies dept.
mindpixel writes "The Scotsman is reporting that the Japanese are very confident they can build a robotic team that will win the World Cup by 2050 using a descendent of the 38cm tall VisiON which operates completely independently of human input, making its own decisions based on information that it perceives with its 360 degree vision, and is able to recognise the football, approach it and deliver a hefty kick. It is also able to identify an opponent and shield the ball in much the same way as a human player does."
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Robot Makers Say World Cup Will Be Theirs By 2050 More

Robot Makers Say World Cup Will Be Theirs By 2050

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  • im going to watch that (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:32PM (#11328940)

    in my flying car !

  • Sure (Score:3, Funny)

    by slobber ( 685169 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:33PM (#11328957)
    Just replace players with tanks and the cup is yours!

  • What about feigning Injuries?? (Score:5, Funny)

    by TheShadowHawk ( 789754 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:34PM (#11328961) Homepage

    Will the robots also be able to fall down and scream in 'agony' when the opposition barely nicks them in the hope of getting a easy penalty?


    • I was wondering about the 3 "rules" of robotics. Namely will these robots not get aggressive in their gameplay to avoid harming a human being? If they move out of the way to prevent hurting an oncoming player then the only thing they'll have going for them is the goalie.

      • Re:What about feigning Injuries?? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by KiloByte ( 825081 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:57PM (#11329252)
        I'm sorry, but the "3 rules of robotics" are just some do-gooder blabbing that no one cares about the slightest.

        In fact, military purposes are one of key fields for robots.
        • nah, the do-gooders are the ones that want to give robots rights equivalent to a human as soon as some crackpot codes into them the ability to say "I don't want to be a slave".
          • Well, I would ask you at what point a robot is equal to a person. I mean in theory if you took a computer right now and simulated an entire real brain (real simulation talking here, I assume atom level up will do it but I may be wrong) you'll have something that is just as much thinking as anyone else, and certainly has no less consciousness, just people will demean it because they know an easy way to pull the plug. Of course if one day that's you, you may not want them to pull it.

            So yeah, if someone pr
            • exactly, and if your vacuum cleaner did do that you'd return it to the store cause it was "acting funny" and they'd melt the fucker down and give you a new one.
              • Would you do that with your kid? Or someone you hired? How come whenever anything new comes along we get a great "ism" against it, persecute it for awhile, then after about a hundred to a thousand years accept it?

                If you don't want to treat something as an intelligent being, don't make it an intelligent being. That's my guess as to how things will be done. I don't want to be born a silicon shell on this planet any time soon.
        • I, for one, would be happy if militaries poured their money into robotic soldiers. Perhaps one day all wars would be fought with robotics and human casualities would be a fraction of what they were before. Unlikely I know, but perhaps...

          • Re:What about feigning Injuries?? (Score:4, Insightful)

            by HybridJeff ( 717521 ) on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @12:14AM (#11331101) Homepage
            Well I disagree with you on that one. Robotic soldiers would result in more death, not less. Robotic soldiers would allow rich countries to wage war much more freely, as there would be no body bags coming home, and much less public resistance towards the war. This would result in more wars, with more civilian casulties, all be it fewer deaths of invading soldiers since they would mostly be robotic.
          • Great, so we'll have fields of robots blasting each other. Then what? Whoever has more robots at the end wins?

            What exactly is the point of war if people don't die?

          • It's not just the soldiers that die. The US invasion and occupation of Iraq, ordered by George Bush, killed 10,000 to 100,000 civilians.

            If he were the leader of almost any other country, he'd be in the dock at the Hague awaiting a War Crimes trial.
      • You realize that the three rules of robotics are fictional, right?
      • The rule doesn't cover hurt feelings. Presumably the robot would be able to steal the ball much more effectively than a human, probably without contact at all. Or at least contact that would cause harm.

    • Re:What about feigning Injuries?? (Score:4, Funny)

      by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @09:23PM (#11329546) Journal
      If they make them in Italy - yes.

    • Re:What about feigning Injuries?? (Score:5, Funny)

      by imr ( 106517 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @09:33PM (#11329666)
      No, they won't, they're japanese robots.
      The italian robots, tho', will fall without anyone in a 1,5m radius.
      The argentinian robots will use their hands, and they will have 8 of them.
      The german robots will be be very fair ... as long as they win the game, if they are loosing around 15 mns before the end, they will begin to break the other robots legs.
      The french robots will have so much cosmetics enhancements because of all the commercials they play in, that they will be barely able to run.
      The british team wont have a robot goalkeeper.
      The us robots will make everybody laugh but nobody will show it. Despite their advanced design (and the heavy armor of the goalkeeper) their programmation will be terrible. They wont get anything of the game and will err randomly on the field and will even fall when there isnt anybody in a 5 meters radius. Yet the referees will still continue to be really really nice to them since the fifa will still want the us market.
      As for Brasil, they won't have any robots but real players and will continue to win.
      • LOL LOL.

        Brazil will still win with a secondary human roster.

        US will show up with football players with pads and an american football robot.

        English robots will have to carry 10x the armor to protect themselves from insane crowds who try to light them on fire.

      • During the World Cup 2002, there was an editorial cartoon with a little boy watching television:

        BOY: LES BLEUS, they...they scored!
        HIS DAD: Relax kid, it's only a commercial.

        (for the ignorant, the French team, the defending world cup champions, did not score a single goal during the world cup finals!)

    • I'm surprised no one has said this yet. (Score:4, Funny)

      by Xyrus ( 755017 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @10:05PM (#11329981) Journal
      All you balls are belong to us!

      ~X~
  • How convienient - team sets outrageously ambitious goal, deadline is after everyone involved will have retired...

    Maybe they should volunteer to help Bush make a colony on Mars while they're at it.
    • I'm reminded of the Japanese 5th generation AI / language project of the 90s... that was going to somehow revolutionize everything. Anyone hear about that in the last few years?

      • Re:Hmmm... (Score:2, Informative)

        by woah ( 781250 )
        I'm reminded of the Japanese 5th generation AI / language project of the 90s... that was going to somehow revolutionize everything. Anyone hear about that in the last few years?

        You mean this [japan-101.com]?

    • Not too terribly ambitious- Sunday's Scientific American Frontiers had the current Robotic World Cup, a miniaturized version of this, and I've got to say, the current state of the art as far as game theory was quite impressive (as well as some of the hardware- one American team had a backspin roller on the front of their bots that meant that the bot could actually autonomously "pull" a ball out of a corner on the modified foosball table they were using for a field). I have NO doubt at all that 2050 is a re
      • What do you mean playing against a human team? Your robots will play against my robots.

        I suppose the Windows 2050 "Processors" will get trounced in the quarterfinals by the Linux 2050 "Beowulf Clusters" 5-1, to the delight of the fans watching on cornea-integrated-media-delivery systems.

        Of course, same robots will be busy eradicating the last of mankind to "restore peace and democracy" in the "digital world."

        • Announcer:

          And Tux, who's come off of a left paddle injury with tremendous intensity here in the quarterfinals, takes the ball down the field. Score is still tied 0-0 with just twelve seconds on the clock to do it for the second half....He gets past Beastie with an impressive stutter step....HE GETS IN RANGE....THE GOALIE GETS DOWN....DO YOU BELIEVE IN MIRACLES?

          Let's check our official Netcraft judges panel--and they're going to count it! *BSD is dead!

  • One area that researchers are not keen on tackling, however, is robot armies. "Down through human history, the weapon that has caused the most deaths has been the knife, so all technology has a risk, but what we do with this technology is up to human beings," Mr Ishiguro said. "I don't think the idea of robot armies is a good one, but that's not my decision."

    He also dodges the question of a robot insurrection, a possibility that will not have escaped anyone in the industry after the release of the Will S

  • Physical contact (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Asterixian ( 806481 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:36PM (#11328994)
    So what happens when one of the human players on the other team does a slide tackle on the robot? Does the robot fall down? Does the robot get damaged? Does the human get injured? IANASP, but it seems like physical contact between opposing players is so common that replacing man with machine is either clumsy, scary, or both.

    • Re:Physical contact (Score:3, Insightful)

      by IO ERROR ( 128968 ) *
      So what happens when one of the human players on the other team does a slide tackle on the robot? Does the robot fall down? Does the robot get damaged? Does the human get injured? IANASP, but it seems like physical contact between opposing players is so common that replacing man with machine is either clumsy, scary, or both.

      It's a foot and a half (38cm) tall and weighs five pounds (2.4kg)! I'm no physicist, but I can imagine what would happen.

  • From the looks of it, it will first kick the opponents in their knees so it can freely roam around and kick the ball without any opponents left.
    • I don't see how these robots can play soccer if they're 38cm tall. A soccer ball itself is like 30cm in diameter (just guessing). Besides considering how high up above the ground the ball can fly during a game, the robot'll have to be at least as tall as a human to compete--otherwise you could just kick the ball straight over these guys.

  • A bit more to it than that (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DrSkwid ( 118965 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:37PM (#11329006) Journal

    If only soccer was as easy as a bit of shielding and hefty kicking !

  • Bones vs. Titanium (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Sonicated ( 515345 )
    Pampered multi millionaire footballers won't even step foot on a field if other players have slightly hard shin guards, let alone legs made of titianium!
  • Of course robots are going to win.. who's going to slide tackle something with a solid exoskeleton which will presumably weigh significantly more than the average person? Can you say "compound fracture?"
    • Let's not even start about the spikes on their shoes.

    • ...who's going to slide tackle something with a solid exoskeleton which will presumably weigh significantly more than the average person?

      I'll be impressed (really!) if they can do it and meet a reasonable set of restrictions to make it a "fair" competition. Self-contained, bipedal, height between 170 and 190 cm, total weight on the field under 100 kg, no fuel intake during a period, some reasonable restrictions on anatomy (eg, no trick arms for throw-ins, 360-degree rotating heads, or knees/hips tha

      • Re:No shit.. (Score:3, Interesting)

        by OwnedByTwoCats ( 124103 )
        Energy will be the issue. If a robot can use hydrocarbon fuels at whatever temperature the engineers can contain, they will have more energy available, and they will win.

        If they are restricted in their power sources to roughly the same energy density as carbohydrates and muscle, then it's a much greater challenge. They will be making the same tradeoffs as humans: sprint now to get there, if it means being winded for a little while afterward?
  • Getting them to not break the opponents legs and heads will be the tough part.
  • will be rooting for our new robotic overlords!

    --LWM

  • Very close already... (Score:5, Funny)

    by jemenake ( 595948 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:38PM (#11329025)
    Well, even today, I can build you a one-robot team that will, at least, would never lose.

    I needs no batteries or wheels. However, it is 24 feet wide and 8 feet high. If the ball is stiffly inflated, we can actually reduce the size of this robot down to about 23 feet wide by 7.5 feet tall. :)
  • and playing cricket we should be OK.
  • I think these shows prove that no one gives a damn about watching robots play sports.
    • The reason why those shows suck is that the robots are hella lame.

      300 lbs "spinning thingies" aren't really intelligent nor particularly interesting. I mean theree basically two robots. The wedge, and the thingy with a huge, slow, weak hydraulic "pincer" of some sort that spins around.

      Most matches are just attrition, e.g. who's robot will fail first and not which one will actually destroy the other.

      Oh and fuck humanity!

  • secret play (Score:4, Funny)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:40PM (#11329057) Journal
    We'll just slashdot 'em in the final round

  • Snake oil (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Alomex ( 148003 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:42PM (#11329072) Homepage
    Yet another product release by the Snake Oil corporation otherwise known as AI.

    Content-free statements like the 2050 press release is what gives AI a bad name. Serious AI researchers would be well advised to ostracized people who make such half hazardly statements, yet they seem to embrace them: the overly (and misguidedly) ambitious robot soccer competition is part of the main conference in the field (IJCAI).
  • Unless it rains.
  • THE footballers of tomorrow will have the midfield guile of Zinedine Zidane, the finishing ability of Andriy Shevchenko and the staying power of Roy Keane.

    Roy Keane? Staying power? World Cup? They sent him home! [bbc.co.uk]

  • And one more thing... (Score:5, Funny)

    by GeorgeMcBay ( 106610 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:44PM (#11329099)

    making its own decisions based on information that it perceives with its 360 degree vision, and is able to recognise the football, approach it and deliver a hefty kick. It is also able to identify an opponent and shield the ball in much the same way as a human player does.

    And if that doesn't convince you they'll win the World Cup, perhaps you need a demonstration of the man-killing laser beams that shoot out of their eyes, meatbag.

  • The football? I thought they said the World Cup. Don't these foreigners know that footballs are for the Super Bowl and soccer balls are for the World Cup? Sheesh.

  • Shape Up (Score:5, Funny)

    by Rie Beam ( 632299 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:49PM (#11329151) Journal

    "a descendent of the 38cm tall VisiON"



    38cm = 14.9606299 inches, or about a foot and two inches



    Nothing to fear here. Except maybe leg-humping offenses.

  • General, speaker and topic independent voice recognition (i.e. computers will understand general human speech) is promised for roughly 30 years in the future.

    Strangely the 30 year distance from "now" has been in effect for several decades. It seems the problem gets progressively more difficult, the better it is understood.

    I guess the same is true for the robot-issue: Allways just not quite in reach.
  • By 2050 we will be able to clone a team of David Beckhams with giant mishapen, club feet and a goalie with 6 arms that will own the robot team!

  • I for one welcome our new soccor playing robot over lords.

    I'm an avid soccer player and soccer is by no means a clumsy sport. It requires an ample amount of finace and agility. I don't see a robot achieving this. This is based simple on the fact that a robot the dimensions of a human being would probable way two or three times as much. thus having significantly more momentum to overcome on say on a simple move.

  • because I can't help it (Score:5, Funny)

    by bersl2 ( 689221 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:54PM (#11329214) Journal
    The World Cup? I'd say that they've set a pretty high

    GOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!

    <ducks>

  • Kicking and blocking aren't the only things (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dmccarty ( 152630 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:56PM (#11329231)
    The biggest challenges aren't kicking and blocking. How will they handle a goalie bot being able to recognize an incoming ball and block it. And what if the ball has spin on it? 2050 seems like a long way away, but if you look at the state of today's vision recognition we have a long way to go.

    Also, there's the interesting question of logistics: will the World Cup champion team want to play against a team of robots? How would you like to miss the ball and kick your shin right into a robot's aliminum alloy leg? Ouch!

  • Is this in the same route of saying something in 1955 that will happen in 2005? If so, might I ask where all of the predictions from that era went? And why is no one bragging about "being right"?
  • Considering the creation of Skynet will lead to the destruction of humanity, we simply won't be able to field a good team in 2050.
    • Wait... so are you saying the true goal of Skynet was to destroy mankind's football infrastructure -- civilization -- so as to win the World Cup? That's chilling! Not just the implications for A.I., but also for the possible plot of the next Terminator movie. *shudder*

      • Yes, and let me tell you, the best scene of the next Terminator is where Diego Maradona tries to a outrun a T-1000, but unfortunately for diego the robot was sent back to 2004, not 1984.
  • Maybe not robots but certainly bionically enhanced people by then.
  • Doesn't really seem practical for robot/human soccer matches (considering the humans would obviously be at a severe advantage), but what about a Robot World Cup? And yes, I mean real soccer-robots, not some BattleBot hitting a soccer ball with it's wedge before another innappropriately-placed hole appears.

  • But the real question is... (Score:4, Funny)

    by saddino ( 183491 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @09:16PM (#11329466)
    ...can they design an authentic robotic soccer hooligan? (powered by alcohol of course)
  • This claim was made for one reason and one reason only: to get press.

    And what did "The Scotsman" do? They gave it to them. Why? To sell newspapers.

    There are so many other "robot" claims that could have been made, each with much deeper ramifications. (like robotic cars that drive themselves, or robots in combat, or robots performing tasks too dangerous for humans, robotic pilots, robotic servants, even robotic dogwalkers, the list goes on endlessly), but none of those predictions (as life-changing and u
  • It's funny ya know. When the RoboCup was announced it was claimed that once we solve soccer, we'll be well on our way to solving all the problems of robotics. After all, for a robot to play soccer it has to be able to recognise objects right? Like the ball, the net, other players, etc. Well yes and no. If you're making a soccer playing robot you need to be able to recognise those 3 types of objects, but you don't need to code a general object recognision system to acheive that. You don't even need the
  • what sort of celebration dance does a robot do after scoring a goal...the robot?
  • Well of course by 2050 robots will be able to win the world cup. They could probably win it now if they just partnered with the folks over at BattleBots.

    "We have a red card for leg severing!"

    "Oh no...looks like Beckham got caught in the pulveriser! Will he make it folks?!

  • First, 38 cm high? That's... um... a bit of a hardship to the humans that are used to playing players that are 180 cm tall, isn't it?

    Second, 360 degree vision. Again, that's quite an advantage to the robots - literally "eyes in the back of their head".

    A bit fairer competition would be 180 cm tall robots with 180 degree vision. Let's throw in a restriction that the robots be bipedal, too - no hiding the ball among 8 legs or some such...
  • "By 2050, our aim is to beat the winners of football's World Cup and we are very confident that we will be able to do that," said Shu Ishiguro, who heads Robot Laboratory in Osaka. "When we have accomplished that, we will have a society in which humans and artificial intelligence are completely in harmony."

    WTF?? Yeah right. I don't know why we humans fight wars when all vestiges of dis-harmony could be eliminated by one team beating the other in soccer/football.

  • It's bad enough being kicked by a human leg, let alone a robot leg.

    Could you imagine the bruises you'd get from playing this robot army?
  • In theory these robots should be able to kick footballs around at tremendous speed with precision people will never be able to match.

    Vision systems will allow them to map the trajectory of the ball onto their own appendage with pixel accuracy, figuring out the precise power and angle of the return kick necessary to land that ball anywhere they want (within reason).

    And where vision fails, touch sensors on the surface of the foot will be able to figure out what part of the ball they are touching, and what s

  • I, for one.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mshiltonj ( 220311 )
    I, for one, welcome our new soccer-playing robot overlords.
  • but, I predict that within 100 years, robot soccer players will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them.
  • ... and a robotic team will tie from 2015 to 2049 thanks in part to their goalie [engeltron-x.de].

  • Yeah, and I got a (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Le Marteau ( 206396 ) * on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @01:34AM (#11331600) Journal
    hydraulic jack which will win the weighlifting competition. And my Honda will win the marathon.

    Apples and oranges, peeps. Sure, it's interesting, having robots and stuff. But this fetish about machine/human competition misses a big point, and is just plain dumb.

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