Think Secret Predicts Sub-$500 Headless Mac 922
eadint writes "I have just read an article posted on Think Secret that discusses a
confirmed $499
Apple box sans monitor. According to the article, this has been
under development for almost one year and may be available towards the
end of 2005Q1. The system is rumored to be based on a G4 with 256MB
of RAM , 40-80GB HD with a combo drive (sorry, no SuperDrive). Although Apple has stated in the past that they have no motivation to
compete in the sub-$600 PC market, this system was based on polls showing that more people would buy it after initial exposure
to the iPod." "Confirmed" seems a strong word, but I hope this is more than wishful thinking.
If it has PCI-slots I might consider it. (Score:4, Interesting)
But please add PCI-slots.
Almost certainly upgradeable (Score:5, Interesting)
Kind of like the Dell machines that start at $400 or so, then by the time you add on the usual needs (bump up the RAM to at least 512) they come out to $500 - $600.
If this is the case, Apple now has a great chance to gain market share. I've wondered for years what would happen if a headless iMac comes out (since everybody already owns a monitor, why buy a machine with another one anyway?).
If it becomes popular, I wonder if more game companies will go the Blizzard route and dual-release their software for both the PC and the Mac. Hm. Well, I've got an hour before I have to go to work - time for a little Warcraft
Re:Finally - make it an impulse purchase (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't get me wrong, if true it'd be a great deal, but not one my pocketbook would be very accommodating for. And yes... this is being said by someone who owns an iPod (of course at the time I was only an intern, now I have student loans to repay!).
Re:Finally - make it an impulse purchase (Score:2, Interesting)
My main worry is that I'll switch, drink the Apple kool-aid, then wake up one morning and think "The novelty of the pretty eye-candy has worn off now. What do I have that I would not have with GNU/Linux with (say) KDE?"
Apart from a hole in my bank balance, not much I would say.
But then I'm not a graphics person, nor do I play games or have weird peripherals with unknown drivers.
So sub-$500 or not, what would I really gain by switching to OSX as opposed to GNU/Linux (I'm a-liking Debian these days)? Speaking a member of the disgruntled-but-somehow-sticking-with-it Windoze community, that is.
Apple needs to rethink specifications (Score:5, Interesting)
The average Joe's perception of difference between a computer with 40gb of hdd & 256mb of RAM vs one with 80gb of hdd and 512mb of RAM as huge as a "3 megapixel camera" vs a "5 megapixel camera".
Apple needs to understand that underspeccing their computers to make a few dollars more per unit or to have the price slightly lower, actually costs them more than it makes. It furthermore makes people take Apple less seriously - they keep trying to push their out-of-date computers, *and* they're underspeccing them as if they're old stock or they're trying to cut every cent off of costs.
I seem to remember Commodore having a similar over-priced highend + underspecced low-end strategy.
This is a good thing imo (Score:2, Interesting)
It is also down to the ipod, apple wants the bigger marketshare and this could be the best way to do it. Since it is supposed to complement an existing system, power shouldn't be an issue either. However people will have a windows mentality and expect a $499 Mac to play DOOM 3 as does some PC's already do. This thing cannot be to slow or to fast.
What might be nice is if this thing is upgradable (other than the usual HD and memory), if one can upgrade an Xserve Gcard then I see no reason for this to be able to. But then the other consumer machines would need this ability, which they won't get as you need to go higher than that and get a Powermac. It would look weird having your lowest and highest models with that capability. I only mention it because it is another feature a windows user might expect.
They need to satisfy their intended market with more than just a low price (maybe?) if they want average pc users aboard the mac train.
iPod Dock built in (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:If it has PCI-slots I might consider it. (Score:5, Interesting)
There is already NIC, Firewire, USB, Sound and Video cards onboard. I've had several macs, and i've never installed a single addon card in any of them.
The only thing i've ever come up with was to use one as a firewall, in that case a second NIC would be desirable, but otherwise?
Apple's approaching it wrong (Score:4, Interesting)
What many people don't know is that Sun actually did this [link4pc.com] a while back. I have an ATX rack-mount server with a Sun AXi motherboard in it, and it acts exactly like a Sun machine -- because it is a Sun machine. I'd love to see Apple do this.
Not enough RAM (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Interesting... (Score:1, Interesting)
That said, hell, *I* would buy one myself as a secondary machine.
BRING IT ON!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
A 1" thick headless unit fits nicely in my A/V cabinet.
Yeah, you heard me - network connection - audio line out (or atleast USB/Firewire for 3rd party)
This is the new Media server for my den.
Re:If it has PCI-slots I might consider it. (Score:4, Interesting)
More Firewire DV and audio stuff:
ADS Pyro A/V Link [adstech.com]
Avid Mojo [avid.com]
MOTU 896HD 196kHz Firewire audio interface [motu.com]
Re:New G4 Mac Ain't Gonna Happen (Score:4, Interesting)
1. They updated the iBook to a G4 recently.
2. There is still a G4 in the Powerbook, and probably will be for another round of updates(watch Steve prove me wrong on Jan.11).
3. The eMac is still selling relatively well.
All of this means Apple is committed to supporting the G4 for at least two more OS updates after it stops shipping machines with that processor(based on past history). The 68040 chips were supported through OS 8.1(1998), though they stopped selling them in 1995(~ OS 7.5). PPC chips(60x series) were officially support through OS 9.1(Jan. 2001), though they were last shipped in 1998(OS 8.6).
Hummm (Score:2, Interesting)
If so I can save myself the 129 bucks and use the normal Apple license model to put it on my G5 and use the headless box as a home/file/web server etc.
This makes this all the more attractive if indeed it does exist.
Totally Speculative Theoretical $500 Shootout (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/
It's important to note that all of the Dell Dimension 2400 specs are ACTUAL specs, taken just this morning.
For the rumored Apple bottom-feeder CPU, I'm assuming that the hardware specs will be what ThinkSecret claims, that the graphics card will be a GeForce FX5200, and a few other items. I'm also assuming that the software will include Panther, an updated (finally!) version of AppleWorks (just for the heck of it), iLife (minus iDVD), and the other Apple-produced software which normally comes with eMacs/iMacs/iBooks. The major distinction software-wise is that, to keep costs down to a bare minimum, there would be NO third-party software included (ie, no Quicken, WorldBook, or 3rd-party games bundled).
The thing which blew me away was this: The Dell machine--without a monitor--starts at $395. However, this is with a CD-ROM ONLY, and a 90-day warranty only! Adding a CD-RW, DVD, and 1-yr warranty tacks on another $88...except that the standard ground shipping is $99, even without a monitor!! Since $500 is the cut-off, and the system *has* to be shipped one way or another, that means I had to give up the CD-RW and DVD drive and *still* came in $11 over the mark.
I was also surprised to find out the following about the Dell Dimension 2400:
--It has a sucky, NON upgradable, integrated graphics card (though you could use a PCI graphics card instead, I suppose)
--It maxes out at 512 MB RAM!
In short, if TS is right about the specs and pricing, this could definitely stir things up!
Re:As long as it isn't crippled software wise... (Score:3, Interesting)
1. His employer is paying for the software but not a work at home box/extra computer at work.
2. He has approx. $2000 to spend on a project that "needs" the above software.
3. He thinks the advantages of the above software compared to Win/Linux software is worth ~$500 to him but not $1000+. So he can "justify" spending $500 to buy a box to run the software but not $1000.
iServe (Score:3, Interesting)
Like, say, if you took a 17" iMac G5, ripped out the display, put it on it's side and racked it...but reconfig'd it so that the ports and slots would be easy to access while in a rack. Give me a single-processor G5 mobo, 2 internal SATA drives, a CD-ROM, a single PCI slot, and a choice of Mac OS X or Mac OS X Server, and I'm good to go.
I have visions of Apple Network Appliances dancing in my head..email, DNS, DHCP, Open Directory nodes, web servers, etc, etc. All that nifty infrastructure stuff that doesn't really require a full-blown XServe, but that works great on multiple cheap boxen.
The answer to familial tech support? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Apple needs to rethink specifications (Score:4, Interesting)
Why sell a machine with so much CPU horsepower then don't expext anyone to run an app that could actually take advantage of it (like Photoshop)?
Re:Seriously, how about a cluster of these? (Score:3, Interesting)
Could you cluster a few of these things together...and run the mac server version of OSX? Just thinking off the top of my head with no research yet...but, might be interesting. And at this price...easily affordable.
now's their chance? (Score:4, Interesting)
maybe now with microsoft looking pretty weak with their security problems and continually delaying longhorn, and with the problems intel is having and the rest of the PC market is having Apple is seeing this as a chance to make up for past mistakes and finally sell the "computer for everyone" they originally intended.
Re:Finally - make it an impulse purchase (Score:3, Interesting)
I've only run into a problem with Linux on ppc at this point...X locks up all the damned time. It seems a number of others are having this problem...seems to be Xorg related. However, working on this one...before the locks started, thing ran like a top. Nice to have the dual book choice. Mine is an older iBook 800Mhz.
One note...the G4 and G5's sometimes aren't as fully supported at the G3's...especially with relation to the laptops. Not familiar how well everything works with the towers.
No discussion: Gimme (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple's answer to Media Center? (Score:5, Interesting)
There's been a sea change in monitors. Back in ye Olden Days, you had a Commodore 64 using a TV for a display. Fuzzy.
Then came RGB monitors, which cost more than a TV, couldn't be used as a TV, but made computer video output much more usable.
Then the monitors developed into hi-rez monsters. They showed TV better than TV sets showed TV.
But now, lookee: hi-end high def TV's can run 1080i, or even 1080p with a converter. We have consumer TV's that can handily act as a not-bad monitor for a PC.
What's an Apple to do with the situation of Microsoft end-running the entire entertainment industry by making their DRM and Media Center the de facto standard? They take the guts of a iMac and make a cheap Small Form Factor computer for cheap. It doesn't have Bill's virus problem inherent in the OS, and, also, most importantly, it doesn't crash.
Run, Steve, run!
Re:Finally - make it an impulse purchase (Score:5, Interesting)
I haven't tried anything else, but that'll show you that just because distros are available for the mac doesn't mean they're worth using.
Re:Finally - make it an impulse purchase (Score:3, Interesting)
The whole point of buying a Mac (in my opinion) is to get the software. An old G4 tower from about two years ago will have old software from about two years ago. That's not the way I want to get started on a Mac journey.
Re:RAM is the problem (Score:3, Interesting)
Pricewatch.com is listing PC3200 256MB at $24 and 512MB at $45. Assuming wholesale prices follow a similar ratio[1], Apple is adding $10-$15 to their margin per unit by including the smaller chip. Note that 1GB chips are at $104 and 2GB at $279. We'll start seeing Macs ship with a single 512MB standard soon, but there's too much margin to be had on the bigger RAM upgrades to change yet. Probably this year, but not necessarily.
One other point to consider is that the laptops need the memory more, to save disk access and because swap space on laptop drives is horribly slow. But look at the prices [1] PC2700 memory is roughly $25 for 128MB, $35-$53 for 256MB and up around $80 minimum for a 512MB chip. As long as those ratios hold, PowerBooks will ship with 256MB standard. Don't look for that to change anytime soon, and don't expect a stable notebook with cheap RAM in it. Those $35 256s may not even be recognized by a PowerBook, let alone run without errors in one. Get Kingston, be happy.
[1] If anyone knows a good site for checking actual wholesale prices rather than nitwits who like putting that on their page so Google returns them for searches on 'wholesale' I'd be grateful to see it.
Re:The answer to familial tech support? (Score:3, Interesting)
I know what you mean. My wife is going to buy a laptop next month and if she decides to stay on a PC, I will no longer provide her with assistance. I simply am not interested in figuring out where all her spyware came from, or why Windows is suddenly crashing all the time.
Life is too short to deal with Windows.
Re:Finally - make it an impulse purchase (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, if Apple came out with a $600-$700 low-end G5, MS would really feel some heat. I think the iPod should have shown to Apple that people are willing to spend a _little_ more on features and looks. You can get plenty of good MP3 players for less. The iPod just seemed to have the right looks and features for a price that was acceptable. Obviously, 96% or so of the computer using population do not feel that the current Macs have hit that consumer "sweet-spot" yet. A 1.25G Hz G4 with the memory upgraded to 512MB should be plenty for Joe Six-pack. Though there would still be some software problems. However, I am sure if software companies start to see Mac market share going up, they would port in no time.
If this product is true, it could be a big win for Apple. I want to kick the people in charge of Aple in the head sometimes. I think Apple is blind sometimes. There is a _huge_ demand for anything that is _not_ MS at the consumer level right now. Tons of home users are fed-up with viruses and spyware. There just isn't anything out there yet with the right features and price. Joe Six-pack walks into the store, all he sees are cheap WinXP boxes from $300 to about $1,000, with the most popular being somewhere in the middle. If Apple can get one or two decent products in the $500 - $600 range, they could clean house in no time. Now I doubt they could bring down the big 600 lb. gorrila, but I see no reason why Apple couldn't grab 10% - 20% of the desktop market. Then we could really see some good competition.
Sounds good! (Score:1, Interesting)
I've been wanting such a device for awhile now, and just can't bring myself to use Windows Media Center or any of the freeware Linux solutions.
Re:Finally - make it an impulse purchase (Score:1, Interesting)
Fortunately, there's cron for tarzipping the home directory and transferring the result to a remote machine (Ok, so cable modem or DSL required). Silly, bandwidth intensive, easy solution. Someday I am going to read the man pages for rsync.
Re:Finally - make it an impulse purchase (Score:2, Interesting)
Hell: Linux.org [linux.org] is where you want to go if you're going to be pedantic.
This Thing will Sell Like Hotcakes (Score:2, Interesting)
I often go into the Apple Store at Tyson's here in DC. I oogle the 30" flat panel and dual 2.5 PowerMac. I have the means to buy it, if I could justify it. Alas, a Mac can't run a number of very important applications necessary for my work as a Software Architect (e.g. Rational Enterprise Studio). Therefore, my big computer dollars must be directed towards a PC. I notice on my visits that others are oogling the same way I am, but have the same frown -- too much money for a secondary machine. Lump those folks in with the hip younger crowd who really want the fanciness but can't afford it. Put a $500 machine in front of us and we will snatch it up. The luscious user interface and smooth integration with digital cameras and my iPod. Yummy. They are gonna sell like hot cakes even at $799.
One might say this analysis is flawed due to the eMac, but let's face facts the eMac is ugly. It lacks the sexiness of the PowerMac or iMac. It is built for school children and lacks the sophistication that we all want as adults. A sleek, cost-effective Mac will sell very well. Furthermore, if they offer a few well targeted upgrades, they will lure folks like me to turn the little $500 computer into a $1200 souped up mini-workstation.
Where can I place my pre-order?
Q88? Sounds fishy... (Score:2, Interesting)
Linux - REPENT SINNERS,THE END IS NEAR! (Score:3, Interesting)
The something is that Microsoft is the only target. While as described, only a drooling tard would pay twice as much for a Windows Media Center of inferior performance deliberately DRM broken with a G5 Mac pizzabox which Just Works as the other choice, I can think of a rapidly expanding niche market that this box would be ideally suited to attack.
The market is, of course, the Linux desktop for the non ubergeek user.
I've put the last year into learning the Linux desktop, and paid for it in part by writing Linux tutorials for publication. In part, I've been doing this because it looks like the market for people who know Linux is expanding rapidly in the places in the world I want to go. (the EU and Canada, the US politicians seem to be bent on destroying the ability for non-corporates to do technology R&D because the Hollywood content cartel wants it that way)
The main advantages of desktop Linux for the non-fanatic are:
The difference between cheap commodity x86 hardware and low cost high-quality Mac hardware is one most of us can probably live with.
The difference between It Just Works and the fun and games involved with adding new hardware and software to a Linux box is also something all of us but the hard core fanatics can live with. While the automated installer tools like apt-get/synaptic are probably as good as anything Apple sells and far better than anything Redmond ever imagined, it's really too bad that outside of the apps bundled with distributions, there isn't a whole lot that you can install with them.
Throw in the much larger number of applications which actually work and meet user needs available on the Mac platform and there aren't a whole lot of reasons to go with Linux as an alternative to Windows given a low-cost entry-level Mac platform which will probably physically break a lot less often than an eMachine or a Dell.
Don't tell me about the wonders of Open Office Writer and other FOSS apps, since I live in the real world, the "minor compatibility issues" get a lot more serious when I'm submitting copy to editors who run MS Word on Windows boxes. GIMP vs PaintShopPro? The only reason I can run Linux on my primary workstation, i.e. the box that helps me make a living is that Win4Lin [netraverse.com](WHICH IS NOT FREE) works far better than WINE does, and therefore, I can run just about anything Windows in a Windows window over my copy of Fedora Core 2.
So what would a Linux box on a cheap x86 platform do for a user that a low-cost Mac doesn't? Break more often? Cause a user trying to install something or make it work after installing to spend lots and lots of time on the Web?
As for "looks a lot like the future", imagine yourself as an enterprise CIO who's sick of paying MS tax and paying to fix the endless series of major software security problems with MS and buying cheap commodity PCs that constantly break who gets pitched Apple quality, OSX, and a chance to reduce in-house support staff at the same time. With the other option being a consultant group pitching FOSS and saying "well, some of your boxes will support Linux, we'll have to see".
I've been investing time in Linux because I see a world evolving beyond MS's product line and I want to be one of the people who can explain it and fix it for a world full of Linux newbies who just bought or had corporate get them Linux boxes to replace their aging XP machines. A *nix OS that does everything Linux does, only better, puts that plan in question.
I'm putting my planned x86 hardware upgrade on hold until I find out if this is for real or not. If Apple can compete at the low end, Linux desktops may not have mu
Would be great, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'll take two please! (at least) (Score:3, Interesting)
I't would be great to have these boxes in other applications like at my family restaurant and bakery. I could build a very low cost Recipe, scheduling, POS... system and all running Obj-C, Python, Java, JavaScript
Let it be, let it be...
JsD
Finally! Reasonably fast, cheap Macs (Score:2, Interesting)
G5s are way out of his price range. Even the discounted PM G4 1.25s (while they were still available) were rejected because buying three meant spending in the neighborhood of $7K.
As long as these $500 boxes can be upgraded to at least 1 GB RAM and can connect to a VGA monitor, my wish for new hardware this year may come true.
I bought my home system in March '03 (dual 1.4GHz) and at the time that was the fastest Mac on the planet. A single 1.25GHz ain't no slouch if you have to work on a 400MHz G4 all day. I feel sorry for the guy running Quark 6 & Photoshop on the G3 300, that's cruel & unusual punishment.