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Portables Media Music Hardware

Virgin's New iPod Rival 401

Posted by timothy from the like-a-virgin dept.
iammaxus writes "CNET has the scoop on Virgin's new iPod killer. Favorite quote: 'Virgin said support for open standards such as WMA will let people select the music service of their choice.'" While this doesn't look like a bad player, it's the same price as an iPod mini (and incompatible with the most popular pay-per-download site), so calling it an iPod killer seems a bit premature.
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Virgin's New iPod Rival More

Virgin's New iPod Rival

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  • design... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by selderrr ( 523988 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:15AM (#10512352) Journal
    I don't really like the design of the device... This shows why apple doesn't rush to market : they redesign and redesign and redesign until it's perfect. The Virgin player looks somewhat a quick & dirty design.

    Their portable speakers on the other hand look nifty.

    • Re:design... (Score:4, Funny)

      by mirko ( 198274 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:25AM (#10512426) Journal
      While searching Google for iPod Killers [google.com], I found one that might succeed, though, it's elegant, light and support economy modus... Here it is... [google.com]

    • Re:design... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by shepd ( 155729 )
      I disagree. Looks really nice. I like how they've outlined the buttons with what appears to be a ridge so that it's easy to use in poor light without having to light up the device.

      From what I can see of the picture, it seems like the clear LCD protector covers most of the front of the unit. I like that, too.

      The blue-grey on silver-beige two tone scheme sets it apart from all the copycat white-only products out there.

      By choosing not to use an identical interface to the iPods, Virgin will attract users

    • Re:design... (Score:3, Funny)

      by Lussarn ( 105276 )
      Yeah, they redisigned until it looked like a white brick. Most of apples products these days looks like a white brick. What if I don't live in cloud city and need some other design?

      • Re:design... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by macthulhu ( 603399 )
        I love all of my Apple products, but I always thought that the last few years worth of designs (iMac, G3, G4, iBook, & especially the iLamp) looked like set dressing from A Clockwork Orange... which in my book isn't a bad thing, just sort of odd. I'm not thrilled with the all white lineup... It starts looking shabby after all of the handling. This is particularly annoying in the case of the iPod and iBook...
    • That is one of the ugliest gadget I've ever seen. It looks like a 10 calculator from the "soft-button" era crossed with the world's worst cell phone. Who's going to want to show off that poor mutant child?

    • Re:design... (Score:3, Funny)

      by tbase ( 666607 )
      I agree. But even Apple can't beat the design of this iPod killer [8trackheaven.com]
  • In other news, Microsoft announced today that all of their intellectual property will, from now on, be fully licensed under the GPL.

    • Re:support for open standards such as WMA... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Amiga Lover ( 708890 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:22AM (#10512398)
      It's funny how used to saying that going the windows way is the way of 'choice' and apple is some kind of dead man's zone people are.

      "Hi! Use WMA! it gives you CHOICE over which online stores you use!"

      yes, you can use the online stores that have 2% of the market, 3% of the market, and 7% of the market, but you do miss out on the choice of using the biggest & best...

      • Re:support for open standards such as WMA... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by blowdart ( 31458 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:46AM (#10512533) Homepage
        yes, you can use the online stores that have 2% of the market, 3% of the market, and 7% of the market

        But does the end user care, as long as the music they want is available for purchase? Doubtful. With all the major labels, and a lot of the minors on all the stores most people will use the store that works for their device and not worry about anything else. It's when you try to track down a hard to find piece of music the problems arise. If you're a Beatles fan you're right out of luck.

        Of course there's other "choice" available with WMA, you can choose a device from another vendor, you're no longer locked into Apple as controller of the format, seller of the music and only "manufacturer" of the portable device that plays it.

      • Re:support for open standards such as WMA... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Mr_Silver ( 213637 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @09:29AM (#10512876)
        "Hi! Use WMA! it gives you CHOICE over which online stores you use!"

        I appreciate that the parent poster was joking but it is worth pointing out that if the Apple store starts to jack up the prices, there is nowhere else you can legimately purchase the AAC files that they sell.

        On the other hand, if a WMA shop does the same, you simply shift to another one.

        Finally, everyone likes to blame Microsoft for the DRM in WMA. However they completely forget that Microsoft just provided the capability - it is up to the content providers on whether or not they use it.

        • You can always buy CDs if Apple jacks the prices -- which they have no motivation to do.

        • Other AAC stores... (Score:3, Informative)

          by Otto ( 17870 )
          I appreciate that the parent poster was joking but it is worth pointing out that if the Apple store starts to jack up the prices, there is nowhere else you can legimately purchase the AAC files that they sell.

          Off the top of my head:
          -Magnatune
          -Real's Music store (yes, it sells AAC at 192kbps)
          -Allofmp3.com (dubious legality aside)

          AAC is by far a more open format than WMA. Anybody could setup a music store to sell AAC files. Now, doing it with DRM and supporting the iPod or iTunes is a different story, I g

    • Re:support for open standards such as WMA... (Score:5, Informative)

      by gfxguy ( 98788 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:55AM (#10512602)
      Of course, the CNET article doesn't actually say that... and also mentions mp3 compatibility... so it was just a stupid post, really.

      The Virgin site seems to be slashdotted at the moment, so I'll see what their marketing says about it, but I'm doubting they'll use open and WMA together...
      • Page is finally coming up without pictures...

        Sounds pretty decent... built in radio, dual headphone jacks...

        and despite what's been said, while it may not be as simple or elegant as the iPod, I don't think it's much uglier.

        I still prefer solid state, though... I guess if I travelled a lot, but since I can rotate songs anytime I want, at home or work, I like the (what I presume to be) longevity of solid state.

  • Whatever (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ibentmywookie ( 819547 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:15AM (#10512357)
    Every man and his dog is making an "iPod killer" these days. But none of em seem to get it.

    I am yet to see a better combination than iPod + iTunes for managing music. And the interface on the ipod is really nice and easy to use. I haven't bought one because they're a bit pricey and don't play ogg :)

    • Re:Whatever (Score:2, Insightful)

      by excessive ( 621757 )
      Theres the fact its a nicer looking product but theres another set of "iPod killers" that I think miss the point entirely. A lot of manufacturers seem to think that adding a screen and video playback somehow makes their product an "iPod killer". You generally only want video playback when you're moving but aren't controlling the movement, (e.g. trains, planes, passengers in a car...) anywhere else, you'd use a DVD player. Demonstrations, possibly, I suppose. DVD players are handier anyway - you'd have t

    • Re:Whatever (Score:2, Troll)

      by cfuse ( 657523 )
      Every man and his dog is making an "iPod killer" these days.

      I thought the iPod killer was the iPod mini?

    • Instant karma (Score:5, Insightful)

      by chegosaurus ( 98703 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @09:13AM (#10512755) Homepage
      Man says iPod is too expensive and doesn't play ogg. HOLD THE FRONT FUCKING PAGE!

      Score 4 and counting. Love those moderators.

  • the 50th challenger for the throne (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TAGmclaren ( 820485 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:16AM (#10512359)
    except, really, it doesn't do anything better than the king. Branson of all people should know that if you don't differentiate, you won't beat the incumbent. Especially when the incumbent has a flock of rabid followers and is singularly considered the coolest tech gadget in the past ten years.

    • Re:the 50th challenger for the throne (Score:5, Interesting)

      by I confirm I'm not a ( 720413 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:22AM (#10512399) Journal

      Branson of all people should know that if you don't differentiate, you won't beat the incumbent

      Not trolling, but (with one obvious exception - Virgin Galactic) when has Branson innovated? Virgin Atlantic was just another airline, Virgin Cola just another cola, etc. There's probably something obvious I've missed but when I think of Virgin/Branson, I *don't* think innovation, I think discount prices.

      (Still, with Virgin Galactic I'm prepared to forgive him...)

      • Re:the 50th challenger for the throne (Score:5, Interesting)

        by D-Cypell ( 446534 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:32AM (#10512460)
        You may wish to research Branson's early business history. He began with a telephone order music service that was (at the time) very innovative.

        It seems that the smart thing to do in business, is to come up with a innovative product, make enough money to get your head above the water and from that point just lock-step.

    • Coolest tech gadget? (Score:5, Funny)

      by pjt33 ( 739471 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:59AM (#10512635)
      Surely you're forgetting the Segway!
    • > Branson of all people should know that if you don't differentiate, you won't
      > beat the incumbent.

      Branson sells stuff cheaper, and he's `beaten` the people he competes against, to the extent that he's successful, anyway.

      The Japanese `beat` the UK in terms of cars and motorbikes without differentiating. They do new stuff now, but in the 70's - 90's they were doing a lot of copying of successful western designs.

      > the incumbent has a flock of rabid followers

      So did the Amiga. You make money by sel

  • Qua?? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:16AM (#10512360)
    support for open standards such as WMA

    Since when is WMA an open standard?

    I've already got my iPod and I hope it doesn't get killed by this device. Can I take Virgin to court if they kill my iPod?

    Come on, this "iPod killer" thing needs to stop until the device is actually rated and used by someone, and is actually better than the iPod. Also, a key point: it needs to actually sell more.

  • WMA? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by darkseid ( 701125 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:16AM (#10512362) Homepage
    Since when is WMA considered an open standard? How about FLAC or OGG?

    • Re:WMA? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by TAGmclaren ( 820485 )
      Since when is WMA considered an open standard?


      It's not. For users, anyway.

      Virgin is getting confused. They're telling us the reasons they selected it, as opposed to the reasons we would select it. WMA is definitely not a selling point, not to anyone who knows shit about technology.
      • ... too bad that's only a very small portion of the people interrested in portable music players. They only see WMA as a format that has the same quality as MP3 at a smaller size... so this is definately a good selling point for Virgin.

  • What they don't realize (Score:5, Insightful)

    by panker ( 461977 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:16AM (#10512363)
    iPod is cool, but its seamless integration with iTunes is what makes it the thing to beat. These iPod killers seems to forget that.
    • Wouldn't seamless integration with everything be more preferable? I would think the successful iPod "killer" (can't we just say competer instead?) would support as many media types as users use, and integrate with all the services and software out there.

    • Re:What they don't realize (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jrockway ( 229604 ) * <jon-nospam@jrock.us> on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @09:33AM (#10512911) Homepage Journal
      I agree with you. All the posts above mine (in reply to yours) seem to think iTunes + iPod sucks, but they are very uneducated.

      If I listen to an audiobook on my computer for a bit, then sync with my ipod, the ipod resumes where I left off. When I get back to my computer and sync, the bookmark (on the computer) is right where it was when I was listening to it on the iPod. Perfect integration.

      If I change the per-song EQ setting in iTunes, it is reflected on the iPod.

      The song count, last-played timestamp, etc. are all synchronized between iTunes and the iPod.

      Soundcheck works on both iTunes and the iPod.

      (need I mention the iTMS?)

      All of these things make the iTunes + iPod combination perfect. Everything that the iPod does, iTunes does. Everything iTunes does, the iPod does. It even syncs with iCal and Address Book, too.

      That is why the iPod has not been killed by some "iRiver" (how did they get away with that name!?) or Sony ATRAC3 player. Nobody else has paid attention the software, all they pay attention to is bullet-points (0.3 megapixel camera! yay! that's just what my music player needed!) and names like "iPod killer".
  • Last time i checked vendors are having to hack the iPod to be able to download to it or pay fees to Apple..

    I still think the market will be fragmented until the adoption of an open standard - that is royalty free is adopted.

    The margins are so thin on online music the only way people can make a profit is through proprietary hardware.

    Standardize on the hardware and make some profit on the services folks!

  • Virgin Trains vs Virgin Player (Score:5, Funny)

    by Dynamoo ( 527749 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:18AM (#10512372) Homepage
    Virgin is a classic case of "brand stretching", and in the UK they run an incredibly unreliable passenger railway service. Presumably people using the Virgin music service can expect their downloads to be 2 hours late, to break down regularly and to disrupt the entire internet when in progress.
    • To be fair they're not really any worse than any of the other privatised rail companies are they?

      I don't use rail all that much so do correct me if I'm wrong.

      (I'm sure someone will anyway ;)
      • All rail in the UK seems determined to be as crap as possible.

        They recently shut down the local lines for 3 months while the 'upgraded' it. Then they put the fares up to pay for the 'upgrade'.

        The trains are still as late as ever, and the 'upgrade' seemed to consist of a bunch of blokes shoveling gravel around - nothing else has changed.

        The trains still cost half the price of the busses though so I still use them...

        • Re:Virgin Trains vs Virgin Player (Score:5, Insightful)

          by dschuetz ( 10924 ) <.gro.tensad. .ta. .divad.> on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @09:03AM (#10512670)
          All rail in the UK seems determined to be as crap as possible.

          Hey, at least you've *got* serious rail. I recently spent a couple weeks in the UK (mostly in Yorkshire) and was impressed by the rail system, overall. We had one delay coming back from London (the Leeds train was late) but in general, we never had any problems.

          And the whole "walk a few blocks into town to grab a train to go the next major city over" thing was fantastic. Just £6.50 for a 1-hour ride to/from York? Incredible. That'd be like driving to the nearest strip mall here in Northern Virgina and getting to downtown Baltimore for, what, $10 or so? I can't even do round-trip to DC for under $7 during rush hour, and the nearest Metro (subway) station is a 15 minute drive away.

          So, yes, there are probably many problems, and there will *always* be problems. But having a large, well-used, cheap regional/national rail network is something we chaps on the left side of the pond will always envy. We're lucky if we can get regional rail around a single city, let alone networked between 'em. (and we'll never have a subway as pervasive as the London Underground, except in New York, and that's only because it was built so long ago).

    • When the UK's railway service was privatised -- which was probably the worst thing that happened to the railways since they were nationalised -- the Government of the day made sure that Virgin received the absolute worst rolling stock and worked the absolute worst routes. This was a deliberate attempt to discredit Richard Branson {who had previously expressed the belief that he could do a better job, and thus had to be taken down a peg or two}. Branson has money, for certain, but seems to realise that it
      • I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to suscribe to your newsletter.

      • Re:Virgin Trains vs Virgin Player (Score:4, Interesting)

        by kraut ( 2788 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @06:10PM (#10518171)
        >The Public was conned into believing that privatisation would benefit them in some way....
        You tell me with a straight face that you honestly believe that the privatisation of, e.g., BT, has not benefitted the British people, and I'll buy a copy of Socialist Worker off of you. When I've stopped laughing, which will take a while.

        > Why did people buy these shares anyway?
        To make money on the investment? Capitalism 101.

        > ... that the British blood in your veins...
        Oooohh, Nationalist and Socialist, nice ;)

        > After seven years of Blair, the nation's wealth is distributed less equitably than when he started,
        I'm not sure the focus on wealth distribution is entirely healthy; you should look instead at the levels of poverty. If everyone has enough to eat, and a roof over their head, access to services and education - why should they worry that someone else has more?

        > and fox hunting is still legal.
        And let's hope it bloody well stays that way!

        Coming on to the real failures of the Blair administration:
        * Completely fucked up the reform of the house of lords, achieving the seemingly impossible by making it less democratic.
        * Huge increases in tax, nicely hidden away where it's not too obvious to the feebleminded.
        * No visible progress on improving the things that actually need fixing - NHS, transport, education. But time to protect cuddly foxes.
        * Still no Freedom of Information Act. Funny how they dropped THAT manifesto promise once they got their grubby hands on power.
        * Continuing erosion of civil liberties. Come on, Blunkett makes Howard (previously universally reviled as the most repressive home secretary in history) look like a bleeding heart liberal in comparison. Let's look at some examples:
        * RIP act - the government, the council, and any tom dick and harry has the right to snoop your email. And of course this will not catch a single criminal.
        * Phone taps don't need judicial oversight anymore
        * Foreigners (like me, in theory) can be locked up indefinitely without trial, charge, or any disclosed evidence
        * Biometric ID cards - lots of government invasion into your life, huge costs, zero actual benefit.

        Let's not even get into the mess of the pension system (admittedly that was a mess beforehand, but he's not done anything to improve it), or the fundemental injustice of meanstesting.

  • Ipod Killer? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mrn121 ( 673604 )
    I keep reading about "ipod killers," but have yet to see the ipod dead.

    Seems that these "killers" aren't real dangerous. It is the ipod that is killing everything else, truth be told.

  • I've never heard of WMA referred to as an "open standard" before.

    Is this now an ISO standard? Or is the person in the article just making stuff up?

  • Clunky gray FM Thing (Score:5, Funny)

    by JasonUCF ( 601670 ) <jason-slashdawt@@@jnlpro...com> on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:19AM (#10512379) Homepage
    So, uh, it's the same price as a Mini, right?

    And the same kind of storage, right?

    And it doesn't have iTunes, right?

    And it's got those 80's style recessed buttons for navigation, right? 80's style gray looks like, too.

    So, the addition of an FM Tuner (i like) makes it a killer?

    Has someone been drinking the Richard Branson [wikipedia.org] cappucino?

    Don't get me wrong, I admire the guy, I'm glad there's true entrepenuers (read: morning wood all day long) guys like him... but come on... try and read between the lines a little! Don't be another mindless hype blowhard!

  • "...friends not included" (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    damn :(

  • lacking (Score:5, Funny)

    by Savves ( 786087 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:20AM (#10512390)
    from tfm:

    Share your music
    Dual headphone jacks so you can listen with friends. Friends not included.

    bummer... for once i thought i could finally get one bundled with a music player =(

  • Open Standards? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Constellation ( 125410 )
    Since when is WMA an open standard? The last time that I looked it was owned solely by Microsoft and jealously guarded by an army of lawyers.

  • "Apples To Oranges" Comparison (Score:3, Informative)

    by bdash ( 598142 ) <slashdot DOT org AT bdash DOT net DOT nz> on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:22AM (#10512402) Homepage
    Nice to see that Virgin Electronics has a sense of humor [virginelectronics.com]. If only it were a good one...

  • They just don't get it. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tclark ( 140640 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:23AM (#10512412) Homepage
    What these supposed challengers don't get is that the iPod is not just a nifty gadget. It's part of a system that includes an online music store, a desktop client, and the actual iPod device. An "iPod killer" has to take on the iPod on all of these points.
    • It does...

      http://www.virgindigital.com/

      I tried the ipod desktop client once in a store. It sucked (It actually crashed when I was using it). They really don't need to try very hard to beat that.

    • What these supposed challengers don't get is that Windows is not just a nifty operating system. It's part of a system that includes a browser, a set of server software, and the actual Windows platform. A "Windows killer" has to take on Windows on all of these points.
  • Virgin's site: "Currently this site experiences heavy traffic. Please try again at a later time." Kind of like their trains, really...

    Presumably this product is primarily aimed at the UK market, which has always been Virgin's primary turf, and where the iPod isn't quite as popular as it is in the USA. Probably because iTMS hasn't been available here until recently.

    • Re:UK market? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Tony Hoyle ( 11698 )
      There's no mention of this on the UK sites, so I guess it's US only.

      The UK market is much smaller, and is dominated by cheap clones - in fact most people have 128MB MP3 players.
      • btw. virgin doesn't really do consumer electronics in the UK... it does a lot of other stuff though...

        http://www.virgin.com/uk/atoz/default.asp?all=sh ow

        'Virgin Brides' - where do I sign up?
  • I understand "Currently this site experiences heavy traffic. Please try again at a later time."

    But what's up with the geeky asian dude with the weird shoes and is his name really George ? He doesn't look like a George.
    If your site is experiencing heavy traffic, why include an almost 21 KB graphic on the error page, which adds absolutely nothing to the informativeness of the error, adds to the traffic and looks just creepy.

    Are they trying to scare potential visitors away ?

  • iPod killer? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Quixote ( 154172 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:26AM (#10512434) Homepage Journal
    iPod killer [virginelectronics.com], meet the website killer [slashdot.org].
  • Same price as I paid for my 20GB Thompson for a quarter of the storage (they're trying to compete at the ipod price points too!). Doesn't play MP3, plays WMA (which I have currently exactly zero use for).

    If fact I can't see a good reason to buy this at all, except it looks prettier than an ipod and is smaller.

  • Built in FM tuner, can you record? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by linuxtelephony ( 141049 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:28AM (#10512445) Homepage
    I like the built in FM tuner. The big question is if you can record from it. It doesn't look like it. And that's exactly what I want.

    I attend various conferences. Some of them broadcast on a low power FM radio signal for people in the audience that are hard of hearing. Those people can have a private radio with headsets and adjust the volume to make it easier for them to hear. It also is a great way to record the program without the distracting noises from the audience.

    I'd like to find an MP3 player, HD based or replacement memory sticks (SD, xD, whatever), that has the ability to record using a built in microphone and an FM tuner. A microphone jack would be a plus.

    The closest I've found is a small 128/256 meg device, but the memory is not interchangeable, it's built in.

    Anyone know of anything like that? Who makes it? And where it can be found?
    • iriver has what you want. except for the memory sticks/hd.

      Supports up to 1 GIG of recording. For voice that is a heck of a lot. I bought one for similar purpose and so far have been very happy.

      The advantage of the no HD models are that they are better for sports - running, biking etc. You can listen to your conferences again while on the treadmill.
      • > The advantage of the no HD models are that they are better for sports - running, biking etc. You can listen to your conferences again while on the treadmill. Yes, because setting the device down on the treadmill panel might require a 3 foot headphone cable.

    • neuros (Score:3, Informative)

      by mgkimsal2 ( 200677 )
      The neuros mp3 player will let you record from fm, and even broadcast FM to another receiver (though I never got this feature to work very well).

      I've got an older one you can buy for $50 - contact me if you're interested (mgkimsal2@yahoo.com). It's just 128 meg - no HD. You can buy a HD separately if you like the player. I don't recall if there's a MIC line in or not, but there's a built-in MIC you can record from.

    • I'd like to find an MP3 player, HD based or replacement memory sticks (SD, xD, whatever), that has the ability to record using a built in microphone and an FM tuner. A microphone jack would be a plus.

      The Neuros [neurosaudio.com] does all of that.

      MP3, FLAC, OGG, expandable/updatable firmware to add more and/or update codecs later. Gapless support for OGG on the way very soon (it's in the beta firmware).

      FM-tuner, built-in FM transmitter (for listening [with a quality hit] on your car stereo and the like), record from FM t

  • > support for open standards such as WMA will let people select the music service of their choice.

    This misunderstanding of WMA could be just marketing confusion, but I'd argue that many consumers would simply see this as A Good Thing. The more times something like "WMA" can be seen alongside or in the same sentence as "open standards", the greater the closed source foothold.

    Letting me pick WMA is like letting me pick my master. I want freedom!

  • ANOTHER ipod killer? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ru-486 ( 73117 )
    For Christs sake, unless it has the friggin scroll wheel it's just another mp3 player! (And it must be lickable)

  • On the other hand, (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SerialHistorian ( 565638 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:39AM (#10512495)
    WalMart's music store tends to have a wider selection of music than iTunes does (There's a lot of really new, albiet obscure stuff that WalMart has that iTunes doesn't.), and it's cheaper per track to buy stuff at WalMart online. The Virgin player would be capable of playing songs from WalMart's music store where iTunes and the iPod isn't.

    There are good reasons to discount microsoft's media products as useless, but "they don't have the market share" is *not* one of them!

  • CNET does some editing. . . (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Zobeid ( 314469 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:41AM (#10512502)
    It would appear that someone was stung by the many negative comments posted to that article. I can't find the previous quote (from Virgin) about open standards, but now the article has this somewhat more vague sentence:

    The $249 Virgin Player, weighing 3.1 ounces, supports MP3 and WMA music formats and is capable of working with various digital music services, the company said.


    Of course the iPod supports AAC and MP3 and "is capable of working with various digital music services" too. So I guess that's fair enough.
    • As you say the article was edited. CNET provided this answer to some of the comments, confirming that it was edited. Should also note that they also understood that in Apple's case it is the DRM that is proprietary and not the AAC format.:

      Thanks for pointing this out. We've fixed the mistake in the story. Microsoft's WMA, like MP3 and Apple Computer's FairPlay DRM, is a proprietary format. Ogg Vorbis is a rare example of an open audio standard, but as others have pointed out, few products support it.

  • If they wanted to call MP3 an open standard - even though it is subject to patent licensing - since there are plenty of software libre applications supporting it, I'd go along.

    If they wanted to call OGG Vorbis an open standard I wouldn't raise a single reservation as it is clearly and obviously a fully-open and unencumbered standard.

    But calling a closed proprietary system like Windows Media format an open standard is a double-plus ungood use of the word 'open'.

  • ... on Virgin's new iPod killer (Score:5, Funny)

    by DaneelGiskard ( 222145 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:48AM (#10512558) Homepage
    Given the responsivness of their site it rather seems to be a story on "...slashdot's new Virgin killer" ...

  • "it's their choice, not ours..." (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mgkimsal2 ( 200677 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:49AM (#10512563) Homepage
    Songs downloaded from iTunes are not supported. It's their choice, not ours.

    I'm glad someone has put it in such basic terms, rather than in small print.

  • hmm (Score:3, Insightful)

    by catwh0re ( 540371 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @08:51AM (#10512578)
    iPod mini or new virgin player...
    I'd go the mini, mostly because it doesn't look like a plastic remote control.

    Now com'on I'm tired of hearing about 'Britney killers', and 'iPod killers'. All these products are merely trying to fill a market that is reaching it's peak momentum, a person will now just buy an iPod over other devices simply because it's 'cool', and their friend has one.

    Not many people left in the game who just want a music player. (Hence why the iPod does so well, despite just being a music player.)

  • give me a call when these devices are $100. That's my pricepoint for 4-5 GB. $200 for 20 gb.
    I don't think this is an ipod killer. the regular 20gb ipod is more of an ipod mini killer than this, because its only $50 more.

  • Has to be BETTER or CHEAPER (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cyngus ( 753668 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @09:15AM (#10512777)
    If you want to dethrone a wildly popular product, you have to put one out there that is wildly better or quite a bit cheaper. Companies traditionally haven't been able to compete with Apple very much on the better part (perhaps clock speed, for a while), so they've come out with cheaper products. You are not going to derail the iPod with something that is roughly the same at the same price point. A little more capacity or being compatible with a different set of incompatible standards (WMA DRM vs iTMS).

  • Unfair to Apple (Score:3, Funny)

    by Astadar ( 591470 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @09:24AM (#10512840)
    Virgin can have articles which refer to its devices as "Virgin's new iPod killer", but Apple can't really go and announce "iPod's new Virgin killer."

    (at least not without some outcry from the "virgin's rights" people)

  • compare the volume (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jxyama ( 821091 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @09:45AM (#10512997)
    just wanted to note that this player is much closer in size to regular (20 GB) iPod than iPod mini. since it's lighter than iPod mini, i imagine it will feel less "solid" and a bit airy compared to the mini. (which would make it feel "cheaper" imo.)

    20 GB iPod: 2.4 x 4.1 x 0.57 = 5.61 cu. in.
    (40 GB iPod: 2.4 x 4.1 x 0.69 = 6.79 cu. in.)
    iPod mini: 3.6 x 2.0 x 0.5 = 3.60 cu. in.
    Virgin: 3.78 x 2.23 x 0.62 = 5.23 cu. in.

  • The Real Killer... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by blueZhift ( 652272 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @10:40AM (#10513477) Homepage Journal
    All of this talk about an iPod killer seemingly every week now is just wishful thinking. The insiders must know that the true iPod killer will be the device that does the following.

    1.) Looks really good, like the iPod

    2.) Plays _all_ of the major formats including OGG

    3.) Works with whatever music store you like

    4.) Is competitively priced and reliable

    Technically this is all possible. Having a good looking player that plays all of the major music formats is well within reach. The other stuff is where it gets tricky primarily due to copyright issues. If encumbering DRM would just go away the market would explode. It is the need for DRM that leads to the current incompatibilities. Yeah, if there were a single standard it would be better (maybe) but that's not going to happen because there is basic disagreement on just what the end user should be able to do with music and how much and how often they should pay. Right now, the iPod plus iTunes offer what IMHO is the most end user friendly set of circumstances. Yeah, the iPod doesn't play OGG, but nothing keeps me from converting OGG to mp3 and loading it that way. I can even get unprotected WMA on my pod. Unfortunately a lot of the Japanese music I listen to is on copy protected CDs which are a bear to deal with, but after some work (no cracking involved) I can get these on my pod too. No extra fees or subscriptions! I can pretty much deal with music the way I did in the days of making compilation cassettes for my car or walkman. Heck, this is even easier than that was! Right or wrong, I feel more like Apple wants to help me DO things, rather than STOP me from doing things.

    Bottom line, no iPod killer is likely to appear anytime soon because the fundamental problems are nowhere near resolution. Microsoft could do a lot to unify things on the Windows side, but ultimately competition among record companies isn't going to allow the kind of unification that could pose a real challenge for Apple's iPod+iTunes dominance. And of course, Apple isn't likely to be standing still either.

    • Re:The Real Killer... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by tonywong ( 96839 )
      Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree with your statement.

      An iPod killer has to be cooler than the iPod. That's it.

      Granted UI and integration are part of the mix, but to be honest, I don't think the public gives a hoot about OGG. OGG doesn't provide joe average with any perceived benefits, so mp3/aac are considered 'good enough'. On the other hand, if there was a new format that was 10x more compression with better audio, that would be interesting.

      The working with all stores thing is a bit of a red herr

  • Uhhh (Score:3, Funny)

    by Danathar ( 267989 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @10:53AM (#10513590) Journal
    I'm sorry...but the case design is Butt/Ass ugly.

    How can I feel "Hip" with that thing?

  • Missing features (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nwbvt ( 768631 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @11:16AM (#10513831)
    I see no support for ogg vorbis (and yes that is important, I'm not re-ripping my entire CD collection because virgin doesn't know what .ogg is) or gapless playback (my Pink Floyd albums sound crappy when there are millisecond long gaps in between each song when there should be smooth transitions). Unless this player really does support both of these, I'm still shopping for a Karma.

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