Requiem For A Motherboard 502
JimLynch writes "In my last DIY column, I discussed what it was like to build my first system. As time went by, unfortunately, my DIY system wasn't all wine and roses. This column tells the story of how I destroyed my motherboard through a series of ill-planned and stupid actions. It should stand as a shining example of What Not to Do for DIYers everywhere."
worst article post in a while (Score:5, Insightful)
How many ways can I destroy a computer... yahh
Maybe if there were good gory pictures or something
Re:worst article post in a while (Score:4, Informative)
I have to agree. I wonder if they'll post a story about me eating a bag of potato chips. Oops, I dropped one! Better get a page or two in about that.
I've been building my own PCs for the past 20 years. Along with my own, I help friends and have easily build more than 100 systems, plus about as many upgrades. I used to ritually buy a bottle on the way home from the parts store and get smashed while assembling. I've put cards in backwards, splashed solder, forced all kinds of parts the wrong way, worked way past midnight, rarely think about grounding myself, and only ever ruined one thing, a CPU I was trying to rig for a dual setup.
PC assembly is meant for amateurs, so I don't know how this guy managed to do the damage he did, but maybe his next system should come pre-assembled.
Re:worst article post in a while (Score:2)
Re:worst article post in a while (Score:3, Funny)
It worked though. And thats all that co
What a twit. (Score:2)
Re:worst article post in a while (Score:4, Insightful)
In reading this, I thought, "this guy ... is employed? In computers/tech??".
I understand that we all have our moments ... but this really takes the cake of, "not doing any research before dropping money out of my pocket". You know the saying ... "a fool and his money are soon parted" - well ... (Mother of All) case in point.
Jeez. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Jeez. (Score:4, Funny)
1. Wore wool socks and held a cat while inserting a PCI card. Worked fine
2. Hot swaped video cards until the damn game worked right. I don't recommend this one but nothing broke.
3. Beat the living shit out of a stuck hard drive. It spun up and worked for a few more months, even if it did look a little odd with all the dents.
4. Placed a hard drive in the freezer overnight to see if that could get the bastard to spin up again - and it did. Worked for years after.
5. Stored used components in a frik'n box under other used components. The only ones that havn't worked are the one's with missing resistors.
6. Once I had a particulary difficult processor intall. The heat sink clip was extremely tight and in a poor location with regard to the power supply (sorry, too lazy to take it out). The screwdriver I was using to push the clip down was just a tad too big. Using all my arm streangh I was un able to get the clip down. Now I was getting pissed off and sweaty and started using my full weight to push down on the screwdriver. I wieght 225 lbs. So, of course the srewdirver sliped and I sent green chips dancing about the inside of the case. I got a smaller screwdriver and had little problem manuvering the clip into place. It POST'd just fine and I still use it to this day as a Halo server.
That being said I have a brother who can break a component by thinking about it too often. One of those poor bastards that have had more then one power supply go "up in flames" (not I smell something kinda of funny "up in flames" but full on oh-sweet-jesus-do-we-have-a-fire-extinguisher-up-
imacs don't hold beer.. (Score:5, Funny)
at least it had a use for something..
Re:imacs don't hold beer.. (Score:2)
Re:imacs don't hold beer.. (Score:2)
but not very well at all i might add...
poor little mono-clicker never worked again..
fried the entire thing..
Re:imacs don't hold beer.. (Score:2)
Re:imacs don't hold beer.. (Score:4, Informative)
Summary of article: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Summary of article: (Score:2)
You know, when I read that, I just kept thinking "He knocked out the cord to the power supply, didn't he?" Of course, he never tells us. One day it's broken, next day he plugs in a new fan and it works. Go figure.
Bad times (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Bad times (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's see... (Score:5, Insightful)
Feckin' eejits shouldn't mess around inside the computer!
Meta-bugs upon meta-bugs. (Score:5, Insightful)
The meta-bug: Failure to isolate problems one at a time.
If he'd simply concentrated on what was wrong (bad fan on heatsink), he never would have purchased the new heatsink. He would never have purchased a new case to fit the new heatsink. He would never have had to remove the motherboard and fuck it up by knocking parts off in his failed attempt to put it into the new case. He would never have needed a new motherboard, and he never did need a new case.
> Can be summed up in one sentence: Feckin' eejits shouldn't mess around inside the computer!
You have a gift for understatement. Describing this guy as a "feckin' eejit" is akin to describing Valles Marineris as a "ditch".
Constructive advice: The difference between feckin' eejits and the clued is that the clued try to solve one problem at a time. CPU running insanely-hotter than normal? Solve that problem - and only that problem. After you've solved that problem, then you can think about getting better solutions like a quieter heatsink/fan, a snazzier case, or a new motherboard. Solving one problem at a time means that the "solution" to the first problem doesn't necessarily have to fix anything -- it could be that you wanted to upgrade the old box anyways, so just power off the damn thing and buy your new box.
Re:Let's see... (Score:4, Informative)
Hot dogs who obsolete everything at six month intervals might not notice this sort of damage. The rest of us would.
so lame (Score:3, Insightful)
*sigh* this articles so lame, it just makes me laugh to hard.
Re:so lame (Score:5, Funny)
Re:so lame (Score:5, Funny)
>
> "On the way back, I accidentally ran over the bag of limes with my car, but figured it probably wouldn't matter. A little gravel never hurt anything, after all.
>
> "I finally got back to my house, dumped all the limes in the blender, hit on -- nothing happened! I eventually figured out you have to plug it in, or something like that."
Turns out the power was out from the storms we've had lately. I'd forgotten about that in all the excitement over dumping the limes in the blender.
So I went to Home Depot and got a portable generator, plugged it into the mains without isolating anything, and *BAM*, nearly killed the lineman fixing the downed wire three houses down the street.
I offered him a gravelly margarita for his trouble. He seemed annoyed at me. Strange.
Re:so lame (Score:3, Funny)
Hit Print to read this story (Score:4, Informative)
Food fight with spritzer bottles? (Score:2, Insightful)
That was several years ago and all the boards survived. Buy quality components is probably the best lesson!
Re:Food fight with spritzer bottles? (Score:2)
And this board, it is the exact opposite of "quality" because it _came_ with IDE channel 0 broken and some other problems that I had to work around.
I'll agree with the poster (Score:5, Insightful)
It should stand as a shining example of What Not to Do for DIYers everywhere.
You betcha. Here are some gems:
When I returned, I smelled the distinct odor of something burning. -snip- Just for the heck of it, I checked the temperature of my motherboard with SiSoft Sandra.
Mistake number 1. If you smell smoke, go for the plug, not Sandra!!
You knocked off a "white doohickey" and didn't check to see if it was something that was soldered to the board?
Yeah, that could be a problem. Learn the names of your doohickeys, at least. Then post here - we could use the giggles.
Boy (Score:5, Insightful)
The first time I built a computer, I figured that if a few of those metal support posts were good, more would be better. That's why they gave me a whole bag, right? I assembled the system and it wouldn't start. I did some troubleshooting, succesfully booted with the board out of the case and eventually solved the problem.
That's as dumb as I've gotten -- perhaps I should be writing for ExtremeTech instead? I know my first response to trouble isn't to ask in a forum what new heat sink will make me more 1337.
Re:Boy (Score:5, Funny)
Well, the next day at work, he's got the mb box under one arm, and an RMA in the other.
"What happened?"
"Well, I put the motherboard in the case like you said. I was a little hard getting it in, but I got it in and screwed it down. You were right, it was obvious where the screws went.... But they woudln't screw into anything so I just went ahead and plugged in all the cables like you said, and the power, etc.... But when I turned on the power it made a loud buzzing sound and there was a little smoke."
"Holy shit." I said.
He didn't use the little brass posts. The motherboard was flat-out grounded against the case.
I thought it was common sense.... I was wrong. Some people should stick to playing games.
.
Re:Boy (Score:4, Informative)
The other reason is if programmers are allowed near hardware they will start to blame hardware for there issues.
Thank You. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Thank You. (Score:4, Insightful)
I also love the see-through door. I'll never, ever own a case without one again. I like being able to peek in and check up on my components. I can check what's going on without the bother of having to remove the door.
Check what's going on?! Not much, unless you are awed by fans spinning and semiconunductors sitting motionless on immobile printer circuit boards. What a stupid thing to say. But then again, I suppose if one is in the habit of ignoring "thingys" that one knocks off of one's mobo, that glass window might show some interesting firewroks.
Dolt, that author is.
Heart Pounding (Score:2)
My heart started pounding as I first opened the page. I saw the exact same case I am slowly building into my dream system (well. . . ok, so I only have the case, and power supply, but one day, it will be my dream system). BTW. . . I don't like his harsh comments about the case, he should have known by the posted diminsions and specs that it wasn't a light little case.
Maybe I should start writing articles for various computer tech sites, I have more experience (as I am sure most of /. does) than this guy.
My guess (Score:5, Funny)
Re:My guess (Score:2)
The ad-blocking [mozdev.org] lizard [mozilla.org] is your friend.
Re:My guess (Score:2)
Re:My guess (Score:3, Informative)
On burning motherboards & cooling (Score:2)
I replaced mine with just a heatsink, and so far everything's been fine. Almost broke my motherboard in the replacement process, of course.
So next time you are shopping for a motherboard - ensure that there is *no* fan on the north bridge. Overclocking the north bridge is so 90's anyway
In other news (Score:3, Funny)
Just take your time (Score:5, Interesting)
There are some tips you should know, like installing the cpu and heatsink before the mobo is in the case. And making sure you screw in the mobo with the correct standoffs.
On behalf of many /. ers (Score:4, Funny)
[Nelson voice]
Ha ha!
Long story short (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Long story short (Score:5, Insightful)
That's no way to learn. You probably shouldn't be missing around on a computer you need for more important stuff, or if you can't afford to burn something out, but otherwise it can be an interesting and educational progress. Much better than sitting on your ass and watching what Hollywood or even Slashdot is feeding you for a few hours.
New heights for masochism (Score:5, Funny)
Fried memory (Score:4, Informative)
Later, I found that when I had put the memory in, one of the plastic pegs that separated the mobo from the metal case fell off and the half the mobo was touching the metal case. I am not sure which short circuited first, but... game over, man. Lost everything but the hard drives, CD-ROM, and floppy drive.
More Stunning Incompetence (Score:2)
"More Stunning Incompetence"
yes.. that sums up this entire slashdot article and that article and everything on that page.
and this makes news today.. wow.. geeks everywhere must be finally getting laid..
*sigh*
requiem indeed (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Like most of you, when I need a question answered, (Score:5, Funny)
***
welll, it might shock you but if the question is "what's burning??" I DON'T CHECK INTO THE FORUMS as the first thing, I'm kind of old fashioned in the sense that in a case like that I turn off the computer and see wtf is wrong with it..
This guy is a dumbass. (Score:5, Funny)
1. jammed a DIMM in backwards (this is hard -- the slot is asymmetric to avoid this very thing), turned the machine on, and quickly smelled the sweet smell of burning plastic as the DIMM holder melted, then tried to turn the machine off but forgot that you have to hold the power button down for several seconds, and stinking up the entire house before just pulling the damn plug...
2. vacuumed the dust out of the inside of the case while the machine was running, accidentally tapping the spinning CPU fan with the tip of the vacuum attachment, and snapping one of the fan blades off, making it spin out of control like a unbalanced centrifuge and making a horrible loud noise...
3. speculated that random machine crashes were being caused by a poorly-mounted heat sink, so removed the sink and turned the machine on, heard a loud "BEEEEEEP" and no start-up, then put his finger on the exposed die of the CPU to feel what was going on--OHDAMNIT'SHOTHOTHOTHOT, and enjoying the sweet smell of burning fingertip flesh...
No user serviceable parts inside your head (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This guy is a dumbass. (Score:5, Funny)
3. speculated that random machine crashes were being caused by a poorly-mounted heat sink, so removed the sink and turned the machine on, heard a loud "BEEEEEEP" and no start-up, then put his finger on the exposed die of the CPU to feel what was going on--OHDAMNIT'SHOTHOTHOTHOT, and enjoying the sweet smell of burning fingertip flesh...
I'm guilty of that last one, but my excuse is it was my very first computer job. Had a '386-SX40 (8MB memory and 120MB hard drive .... wooooo!) running with the case off, and suddenly wondered ... "I wonder how hot these things are?" Touched it with the tip of my finger - and immediately realized how hot a CPU can get.
A good way to get a 2nd degree burn on the end of your index finger, BTW. :-)
Finger Tatooing.... (Score:5, Funny)
The ink almost made him have to have his finger amputated; It is very toxic, injected under the skin like that.
You could clearly read "The quick brow" backwards, fairly distorted, across the tip of his index finger, afew days later, after all the swelling went down.
What's the real point of this article? (Score:2, Insightful)
Or maybe Slashdot readers suddenly became a bunch of dumb wannabe geeks who really need that kind of "tips" and I haven't noticed yet.
Keep organized (Score:2, Informative)
It also helps to read manuals and how-tos if you are new to this stuff.
xray
Watch for a next Slashdot story (Score:5, Funny)
In my last radio address I discussed how it was like to rule USA for the first time. As time went by, unfortunately, my country wasn't all wine and roses...
White Doohicky (Score:2)
Where can I get white doohickies? I'm a EE and this is a new one on me. What is the V-I characteristic of the doohicky? Is it a linear device? Please, someone who knows, tell me more.
What the?! (Score:5, Funny)
Damnedest thing I have ever seen. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Damnedest thing I have ever seen. (Score:5, Insightful)
That is a load of crap. There is no need whatsoever to know the difference between a capacitor and resistor to put together your own computer. You just plug the pieces in - it doesn't really matter what the things on the MB or any other component are unless you actually have to plug them into something. The fact that I know ecxactly what each chip, resistor, jumper, capacitor, etc. is has never once helped me put together a computer (okay, knowing the jumpers used to help, but now you pretty much never have to touch them, except maybe on hard drives).
I mean realy, unless you go around knocking pieces off your motherboard, how does it help to know that "that thing is a resistor" and "that thing is a capacitor"? It doesn't. Just be a good monkey and plug tab A into slot B.
Why? (Score:2, Informative)
The clueless leading the clueless.
I mean, it would be expected from somebody at THG..
Actually, now that I think about it, THG will probably post these article soon enough.
Worst I ever did.... (Score:3, Interesting)
After smelling smoke, I reached for the plug, and turned to find the ZIF socket a smoldering mass melted into the motherboard. Removing the Bright green Cyrix heatsink from the ZIF socket revealed that I had shattered the ceramic block that encased the CPU chip.
I took the melted motherboard, cracked CPU, and the faulty manual back to the store and they acknowledged that the manual was wrong. They gave me a new mobo, and a used but working CPU, even though I had only bought the board from that store.
Picture = 1000 Words (Score:3, Funny)
Dumbest (Score:4, Informative)
Anyway, I've never had a problem putting computers together. The reason for that is lots of research on the internet. Before I get ready to build a box I check everything. I never buy incompatible parts. I don't skimp on cost and risk getting a part by a no-name manufacturer. You don't know how many times I see people with broken hardware from no-names. Pay the extra 30 bucks and get the big name brand stuff. Abit, Asus, Leadtek, Gainward, Creative, Seagate, Corsair, Crucial, etc. If you get a video card from randomtaiwantech and it doesn't work, there's a reason.
However, me and my roomate did make a big mistake once. The reason was that there was no documentation concerning the issue on the net, and to this day, there still isn't. The first time I built a computer with a Duron isntead of a Pentium it wouldn't boot. I couldn't figure it out. The company I bought the computer from either didn't know. But what they should have noticed on my invoice was that I had a 300W power supply and that I needed more. Eventually after several RMAs I had a 300W power supply that worked somehow magically.
Later my roomate got a new PC and it had the same trouble. My computer died soon after and we realized something. The power supply is important and 300W isn't enough anymore. Motherboard manufacturers! In the documentation for a motherboard list how big a power supply is needed! You have no idea how long it took us to figure out what was wrong with several completel seperate machines not booting in the same fashion.
Let this be a lesson.
1) do research
2) do more research than is possible
3) don't be cheap
4) if you know what you're doing it wont go wrong.
Needless to say my current box has a huge expensive 450+ Watt Enermax PSU. I will never have THAT problem again.
Wait, I know this guy.... (Score:4, Interesting)
"Would you like us to istall it for you?" (Not an attempt at selling over-priced services, just an attempt to prevent the inevitable.)
"No, I'll do it myself"
After the requsite hour she called back and claimed that the mobo didn't work.
"Did you hook up the power supply? Make sure the CPU was properly seated? Checked the RAM? Plugged in the drives? Proper grounding on backplane screws?"
She answered yes to each question as I explained each of them to her. After a good 30 minutes of trouble shooting...
"Oh yeah, when I was putting the motherthingy in, I poped off a brown cylinder with my screwdriver. is that important?"
"Hmmm, yeah, capaciters can be important. They probably didn't put it on the board to look cute."
And that is how I know the guy. I sold a mobo to his mother. "...
Switch? (Score:5, Funny)
One night, I was upgrading my PC, when all of a sudden it went berserk. The screen started flashing and it was like beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.
And then, like half my motherboard was gone. And I was, like, Nnng?. It was a really good motherboard too. And then I had to do it again and I had to do it fast and so it wasn't as good. It was kind of a bummer..
Celebration of a motherboard (Score:3, Insightful)
I built my first GNU/Linux PC this spring. It worked out surprisingly well. Here is my advice:
I've only killed one. (Score:3, Interesting)
Bang. That machine never worked again.
Zen, Motorcycles and You. (Score:5, Interesting)
If you're experienced you'd probably apply a penetrating liquid and an impact driver at this point. But suppose you're inexperienced and you attach a self-locking plier wrench to the shank of your screwdriver and really twist it hard, a procedure you've had success with in the past, but which this time succeeds only in tearing the slot of the screw.
Your mind was already thinking ahead to what you would do when the cover plate was off, and so it takes a little time to realize that this irritating minor annoyance of a torn screw slot isn't just irritating and minor. You're stuck. Stopped. Terminated. It's absolutely stopped you from fixing the motorcycle.
This isn't a rare scene in science or technology. This is the commonest scene of all. Just plain stuck. In traditional maintenance this is the worst of all moments, so bad that you have avoided even thinking about it before you come to it.
The book's no good to you now. Neither is scientific reason. You don't need any scientific experiments to find out what's wrong. It's obvious what's wrong. What you need is an hypothesis for how you're going to get that slotless screw out of there and scientific method doesn't provide any of these hypotheses. It operates only after they're around.
This is the zero moment of consciousness. Stuck. No answer. Honked. Kaput. It's a miserable experience emotionally. You're losing time. You're incompetent. You don't know what you're doing. You should be ashamed of yourself. You should take the machine to a real mechanic who knows how to figure these things out.
From "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig. (Chapter 24)
This guy's problem... (Score:3, Informative)
This is as true today as it was 50 years ago. Furthermore, I think if you can't name "major" components on a motherboard, you shouldn't be messing with it - or at the very least, you should know this and *really* take your time.
I remember upgrading the memory, as a kid, in my TRS-80 Color Computer 3, from 128K to a whopping 512K. This was about 15 years ago. I remember the instructions (which I still have, along with the computer, and upgrade - and yes, it still runs great!) warning about handling the CMOS devices to avoid static electricity (when inserting each of the DRAM chips into their sockets). I ended up grounding myself using a length of steel wire tied to the kitchen faucet, then looped around my arm as I did the upgrade.
All in all, it took me about an hour to perform that first true "upgrade" on my Color Computer - being a 15 year old kid, impatient to get my upgrade going, but knowing that if I screwed up, my parents would be pissed (they paid for it, after all) - I took my time, grounded myself, and made sure I did everything right. So what do I have to show for it?
Well, patience, number one - but I also can still whip out my Color Computer 3, with floppy drive, monitor, and 512K of RAM - and boot it into OS-9 (8 bit multiuser/multitasking, baby!)...
The article HAS to be a joke (Score:3, Insightful)
As quite a few other posters have pointed out their tips for building a new system, all I really want to add in is RTFM. I'm not saying you have to read the entire thing, but everytime I've built a new system, that's my method. Open the box, ogle the motherboard, then take 5 minutes to look over the manual--that way you at least know the random jumpers on the board. And it gives you a moment to step back from it and calm down--at least for me. If I'm about to be building a new PC, I'm raring to go. I think the key to building a system is to SLOW DOWN! Think before you ram that $300 CPU in the wrong way and bend all the pins.
That's just my advice.
Re:The article HAS to be a joke (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wow (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow (Score:4, Funny)
Best use for an AMD CPU. EVER.
Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
I have the same board he has, sorry strike that, had and I gone through two fans because of temp getting to high but I allow the BIOS to turn of the PC if things get to hot. Linux can get might pissed off about a hard shutdown but it's better than having to get a new CPU.
All in all a really dumb story...
I would like to see a picture of said doohickey to see what it was he broke.
Re:Wow (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, he made a series of incredibly boneheaded moves. No big deal there, I think most humans do something like that at least once in their life.
However, he was smart enough to write an article and make some money off of his mistakes. Hell, he can probably deduct the cost of the dead hardware as a business expense. I never managed that.
Re:no doubt.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Agreed. I haven't built a system since an O/C Celeron 2 800 running at 900 Mhz was a kickass system, but in my experience the hardest part was figuring out with components your board supported. Most componenets could ONLY be connected the right way and it was just about impossible to connect things the right way in the wrong place. As my co-workers used to say when I worked at Old Navy: "A partially trained Monkey could do the job, and the customers would probably treat him better"
Building my first PC was no where near as confusing as the first bike I built, or the Car Engine I hope to rebuild in the future (as soon as I can listen to one of those muscle car guys talk about engines without my eyes glazing over, and parts of my brain BSODing)
Re:no doubt.. (Score:3, Insightful)
You get to:
1. Buy tools to do the job right.
2. Have screws and bolts left over after every trek under the hood/in the case.
3. Get to swear you'll never touch this goddamn piece of crap again when it fails to start/turn on.
4. Be overjoyed at the sound of sweet exhaust/bios beep when you're finally finished.
The only real problem with cars is that they don't stay perfect forever. But I guess the same could be said for case fans/hard drives
Re:no doubt.. (Score:5, Informative)
Bah. Here's what I learned about building a machine:
1. Buy as much as possible from the same retailer. That way when something goes wrong, there's no back and forth on it.
2. Buy from a store. There are a lot of "cheap" internet sites that will happily sell you unreliable hardware, then become hard to contact afterwards. Swap meets are an especially bad place to purchase new hardware components. With a store, you can walk through the door and strangle the guy behind the counter.
3. Buy as big of a case as you possibly can. This will allow you a lot of room to work on the inside, as well as good airflow and extra mounts.
4. Find out what every cable is *before* you plug it in. Also, make sure which direction it goes. Sometimes they need forcing, but only force after you're SURE that it's supposed to fit that way.
5. Take your time and assemble the components as early as possible. Some things can only be inserted inside the case, but others (such as CPU, fan, and DIMMs) can be assembled outside the case. It also never hurts to leave things like the hard drive unplugged just to make sure your system turns on and functions. Remember, SLOWLY.
6. Buy quality components. It may look cheaper to buy that AZUZ motherboard instead of the ASUS one, but the difference is tremendous.
One last tip: don't buy the latest and greatest processor unless you absolutely have a reason to do so. The performance difference between that and the next model down is almost imperceptible due to wait states in the CPU. You're much better off investing your money into more RAM. Less heat, more speed. For gaming, go for the best vid card, though. Unless you like to upgrade, you'll be with it for a long time.
Good List (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Good List (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, I found that local computer stores often do a good job. I built my last computer from parts I bought at a small computer store in Concord, CA. All the parts were ASUS or Intel (including the ASUS GeForce 2 GTS with shutter glasses which I didn't know what to do with). The only things I got from CompUSA were a midrange case (largest they had) and a new 19" Monitor. Put all the parts together, and that self-same system is still runni
Baby steps, Bob. (Score:3, Informative)
Definitely, though, the huge case advice shoul
Re:no doubt.. (Score:3, Informative)
True, but it is the CPU waiting. The wait states have more to do with cache misses, bus speed, and memory latency. The end result is that your CPU rarely his 100% capacity, thus real world performance differences between CPUs is somewhat mythical.
Then again, I didn't really feel like giving a dissertation on why CPU speed doesn't matter. Getting a good MoBo is about all you can do to really improve the issue. Since "qualit
Re:no doubt.. (Score:2, Funny)
Works for computers AND intercourse.
Re:no doubt.. (Score:2)
Re:no doubt.. (Score:5, Interesting)
I only run Linux on it and never even installed Windows at all, everything is fully supported by Linux.
The only problem I have with it is over heating. I have a nice heatsink/fan sitting on the AMD 2500+ and I'm not overclocking it at all. But still, I have to have the case open and a small table fan pointed right at the motherboard to keep the temperatures down to 44c...otherwise it raises to 55c+ with the side panel on and the two case fans running.
I've seen the temp jump up to 61c-62c which from what I've heard is either fine to it's too hot. I've heard the gamut of people saying it's not a problem and not worry about it.
But here's the rub...I run Gentoo Linux, and since I compile everything, I don't want it overheating while in a compile...as an error could easily be compiled into code and be almost impossible to track down a bug....or so I've heard. This has NEVER happened to me. I guess I'm just extra paranoid about the temp.
Other than my paranoia, everything runs tip-top and is very speedy. First computer I've built from scratch (not to mention the first OS I've built from scratch) and everything is ok. Other than me running the memory as single channel DDR instead of Dual channel for 3 months because I had it in the wrong slots. D'OH!
Fixing your cooling problem... (Score:4, Insightful)
Unfortunately, a lot of cases have decorative plastic front bezels that don't let air thru, even though they seem to have a grill in the front.
On all my cases, I use a 7" diameter AC fan on the front. I cut a hole thru the plastic bezel, thru the sheetmetal, and mount a 240 volt AC 7" (6.75") diameter fan on the front, blowing in so as not to fight with the power supply fan.
Using a 240 volt fan on a 120 volt system makes it run slow so it is not noisy. You could also use a 120 volt fan and a speed control suitable for inductive loads ( a light dimmer usually isn't). The ideal is to use a 200 volt fan made for the Japanese market (where the voltage is 100 or 200 volts, vs the 120/240 in the USA) but these are a little hard to find.
You absolutely need to have outlet area to dump the hot air, and I try to put my cards in every other pci slot, and leave out the blanks covering the slots in between. In this way you make a card cage like in the mainframes, where air used to flow between every board.
The fans are cheap on the surplus market, if you check the ads in Nuts and Volts magazine, you will find lots of surplus places listed. If you get a used fan and it has noisy bearings, you can pull them, read the part numbers, and order replacements for them from a bearing place like E. B. Atmus.
Once you make the proper holes in your case and put in a big fan, you should get lower temps than you do with the cover off.
If you want to be less extreme you can use smaller 12 volt fans, just make sure you cut the holes to let air in and out.
Here are some cheap fans at marlin p jones [mpja.com]. The 24 volt fans may not run at all on 12 volts, unfortunately, but the 12 volt ones should run on the 7 volts you get between +12V and +5V on your power supply.
Good luck!
Re:no doubt.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:no doubt.. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:no doubt.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Firefox wouldnt matter too much - a bug in glibc would be annoying. But most of the time the compile simply fails - if you compiles fail on different source code lines (inreproducable) you can be pretty sure it is a hardware problem (overheating or bad RAM).
Which is why I've heard many times not to be overclocking while your compiling anything.
Thats a good advice. My current system ran at 85C when first assembled (And mainboard, CPU and cooler came as a bundle). Starting a compile locked the system. My brothers system even failed trying to install Windows XP because of lockups. Checking the CPU temperature in the BIOS we saw a temperature of 120C (on my system because of the compile, on my brothers system even when idle.). We decidered there just wasnt enough pressure from the Cooler (Arctic Copper Silent Pro) on the CPU - so we manufactured two thin copper plates of about 0.8 mm width and did put it between the mounting piece and the cooler. We now needed much more force to press the cooler onto the CPU, but both systems now run stable on 50C.
So:
Dont trust manufacturers. Even good ones. If something seems weird (like cooler that could be pressed onto the CPU
Re:no doubt.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:no doubt.. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:no doubt.. (Score:4, Informative)
Different CPUs are capable of different temperatures. (case in point: Intell Prescott chips being derided as "Pres*hot*" chips)
Internal case temp should be in the 30-45C range (assuming ambient air temp of around 25C). My AMD cases are running 41-46C at the moment, but the A/C is off and the ambient temp in here is 31C. CPU temps are generally in the 50s, depending on the case temp and the particular chip. I only use AMD, but I get nervous when the chip hits the high 50s. At which point, I investigate larger heatsinks or higher cfm fans.
Only solutions for lowering internal case temps are either:
- Remove heat-generating components
- Get components that produce less heat (5400rpm drives instead of 7200rpm drives, older video cards instead of the dual-heater top-of-the-line beast, use an older and cooler CPU)
- Adjust/add fans to move more air through the case per minute (air flow). Make sure the exhaust fans are properly oriented so that air flows through the case as designed.
- Simply buy a larger case so that the heat producing components are farther away from each other (Antec Sonata / p160 or a full-tower case)
- If the video card has a fan on it, make sure there is at least one empty slot between it and the closest PCI card
- 7200+ rpm drives generally require active cooling (Antec p160/Sonata cases have drive bays with a dedicated 120mm fan slot). Putting a 7200rpm drive in an external USB/firewire enclosure that doesn't have a fan is a good way to kill the drive (been there, done that, now only use 5400rpm drives in those enclosures).
I tend to be conservative with my cooling advice because my office has poor climate control. Like I said, it's 31C in here at the moment, which is warm enough to be uncomfortable even in shorts and a t-shirt. However, all of my machines work just fine since that they're in good cases with good airflow.
Re:The outlet is the key (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The outlet is the key (Score:3, Funny)
Turning of a switched outlet is no worse, and often better, that a random outage.
I've been through lots of outages, and even had my comp connected to switched outlet someone (ok,ok, me somtimes) would turn off without making shure the comp was
Re:Dumbest thing I ever did to hardware... (Score:3, Informative)
The best way to fix it is to get a new fan, and install it into the power supply (don't just buy a new PS unless you need it for a good reason, a fan will be a lot cheap