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Hardware

Taiwanese Makers Will Squeeze DVD Recorder Prices 102

Posted by timothy from the you-betcha dept.
GeXX points out this PC World article predicting vastly lower prices on DVD recorders, in large part because cheap, high-volume Taiwanese manufacturers will have a greater percentage of the market, currently dominated by Japanese makers.
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Taiwanese Makers Will Squeeze DVD Recorder Prices More

Taiwanese Makers Will Squeeze DVD Recorder Prices

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  • That's good news. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Lispy ( 136512 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @09:34AM (#9605409) Homepage
    But, living in germany, the taxes on DVD-recorders [heise.de] (german, sorry) will probably eat up the win for the consumer.

    Google translation here [google.com].

    • Re:That's good news. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      That doesn't mention taxes, it is royalties that the chinese companies aren't paying that they should, to the companies that own patents relating to DVD players.

    • And german suppliers will STILL be allot cheaper then Dutch suppliers. Cheapest dvd player around here is about 69 or 89 euro. And stuff at those price is only for sale in an Aldi or Lidl. ( German supermarkets, for those of you who don't have a clue what I'm talking about ) We the Dutch elevated taxing to a religion; 19% VAT on anything electronic, copyright extor- uhm, protection taxes on blank media, outrageous amounts of regular taxes, etcetera. Thankfully, we live next to Germany so we can always buy

    • bah, as long as tax are in %10 or in A fix rate, you will get your discount.

      I don't know the actual prices but here are two scenarios

      -PERCENTAGE-
      DISCOUNT of 50% :: 200$ * .5 = 100$
      TAX on DVD :: 100$ * 1.15 = 115$
      -still 85$ off-

      or
      -FIX-
      DISCOUNT of 50% :: 200$ * .5 = 100$
      TAX on DID 50$ :: 100$ + 50$ = 150$
      -still 50$ off-

      work you number out, you will still get a discount of something. and i don't know in germany, but people here cuts little coupons to save 30cents on candy bar. discount = good!
  • More cut price pirate dvd sellers lining my streets *grins*

  • So what (Score:2, Redundant)

    by News for nerds ( 448130 )
    When you get a CDR drive for dirt cheap price DVD-R drives are still expensive.

    When you get a DVD-recorder dirt-cheap, Blu-ray recorders are still expensive.

    Where's the news? Pleeeeeeeeeease lemme know WHEN THE PRICE ACTUALLY DROPS. 'PREDICTION', NO THANKS.

  • I wonder. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ceeam ( 39911 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @09:35AM (#9605416)
    Article mentions recorders @ $220 a piece. Considering I could buy perfectly ok recorder @ $80 at the local shop... Well, when was the article really written? I guess prices did plunge since then alreayd.

    • Re:I wonder. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by sane? ( 179855 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @09:39AM (#9605433)
      Err, I think they mean consumer DVD recorders that take the place of your VHS recorder (since they mention MPEG2 chips). These are still not $110 (65) a piece, so hold your horses.
      • No. From the article:

        Taiwanese companies, including BenQ and LiteOn Technology, shipped around 1 million DVD recorders--including DVD+RW drives, DVD-RW drives, and DVD-RAM drives--worth $220 million during the first half of 2004, MIC says.
    • They're talking about stand-alone burners.

      • stand alone burners suck, until DVD media drops below $.25/disk I want to be able to edit before I burn.
        • You need to check out a DVR/DVD-R hybrid, like the Panasonic DMR E80H. Editing, DVD-RAM, DVD-R, all in a standalone unit.
        • They are meant to record the VHS recorder for casual recording and viewing, and perhaps as a TiVo backup thing. i.e., you record the football when you are out, or Star Trek, or any number of shows that Fox will consider cancelling just as they get good. I suppose the sensible person would use a DVD-RW for recording purposes. What is it? 2? 3? hours of DVD quality recording time on a medium that isn't clunky and doesn't lose clarity.

          I know a lot of consumers who would go for that.
    • I believe they are talking about standalone DVD recorders that record television, not the drives that you install in computers.

      MIC says a drop in the price of key components, including DVD loaders and MPEG-2 decoder chips

    • I recently saw a BenQ drive advertised for the first time. I can't recall the exact price, but it was so far below the average that it made me suspicious and dismiss it; now I wish that I hadn't.

  • hmmmm (Score:5, Insightful)

    by vmircea ( 730382 ) <vmircea@tERDOSjhsst.edu minus math_god> on Sunday July 04, 2004 @09:36AM (#9605422) Homepage
    although one might see this as good, you have to wonder whether or not the extremely cheap products will be of good quality, not to say that they won't, but if they are significantly cheaper you have to be at least a bit wary... but hey this is great, because everyone will have to drop their prices to compete, meaning that all the buyers win on this... but you have to consider the companies who are currently selling their burners for high prices... what happens if they have to cut their prices in half to stay competitive? they could go under, which would be a bad thing..
    • Or it could mean that *everyone* will simply start producing cheap garbage and you won't be able to buy a quality product regardless of how much you want to pay.

      I would much rather pay an extra $10 or $20 just to know that what I'm buying will last me more than warranty+1day, there are people who don't have an upgrade cycle longer that 6 months and want something they know will simply last.
    • the dvd recorder (nec nd-1300) that i bought last year for $130 is now selling for $65. i am pretty sure that 1) that difference came out of the retailer's massively inflated markup, and 2) that nec's manufacturing costs have also been reduced by a comparable amount in the time since.

      nec (or whomever) is not ever going to make a habit of selling the hardware for less than what it costs to make (unlike microsoft, they're not selling software for the DVD burner to make up the loss).

      the market will dictate w

    • Re:hmmmm (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Simonetta ( 207550 )
      When the CD recorders first appeared cheaply (less than $200 US) about six years ago, I bought one from Mitsumi and it lasted eight months with light use. They wouldn't honor the warranty; they wouldn't pick up the telephone for the customer-support line or answer e-mails.
      A second CDRW, a BTC, lasted eleven months before dying and I was able to get a warranty replacement that still works five years later. A third, a brand and model recommended as a best-buy by PC World magazine lasted six months. Agai

  • Hard to believe (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dbarclay10 ( 70443 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @09:39AM (#9605431)
    This is kind of odd, really; I can get good capable-of-all-relevant-formats DVD burners for about $100CAD (about $75USD) each. Good CD burners cost around $60CAD. So what, DVD burners are going to go down to that level soon? Not that I won't be happy, but it's kind of hard to believe. The March of Technology goes on, I suppose.
    • Just wondering if you might be Dan Barclay. kind of funny since I lived with a roommate in second year who had the same name and family motto. He was not really into computers...unless you count surfing for porn ;) dev
    • This is kind of odd, really; I can get good capable-of-all-relevant-formats DVD burners for about $100CAD (about $75USD) each. Good CD burners cost around $60CAD.

      Are CD burners that expensive in Canada? Assuming 1 CAD = 0.75 USD that's like $45.00. I can pickup a Liteon, Sony or a Samsung local for $30-$35usd ($40-46CAD). It's possible you mean the retail box, or your cd-r drives are taxed extra. The only reason I point this out is you quote for a DVD burner of $100CCA / $75USD is right on the mone
      • Are CD burners that expensive in Canada? Assuming 1 CAD = 0.75 USD that's like $45.00. I can pickup a Liteon, Sony or a Samsung local for $30-$35usd ($40-46CAD). It's possible you mean the retail box, or your cd-r drives are taxed extra.

        CD burners are not taxed extra in Canada. Media isn't taxed at time of purchase either, the levy is paid by the manufacturer and passed onto the consumer.

        The grandparent post is probably going by the price of a drive at Futureshop (like Best Buy). Check out a site like nc

  • Interesting... (Score:5, Informative)

    by dncsky1530 ( 711564 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @09:40AM (#9605435) Homepage
    heres another source I found: DVD recorder prices fall as production surges in Taiwan [arnnet.com.au]

    But it apears that they are already cheap if you know where to shop [tigerdirect.com].

  • Are the format wars over yet? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mst76 ( 629405 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @09:41AM (#9605440)
    I haven't been following the DVD formats, so can someone tell me if the DVD+/-RW thing has been settled yet? And whether we'll have to go through the whole thing again with DVD-HD and Blu-Ray? And whether for backups I'm not better off just buying some cheap IDE hard disks and put them in an external enclosure?
    • Now DVD burners usually support both + and - format.
    • can someone tell me if the DVD+/-RW thing has been settled yet?

      Found this here [cdrinfo.com].

      In Europe, DVD+RW products have captured a 76 percent share of the DVD market, while DVD-RW and DVD-RAM have 14 percent and 10 percent, respectively. In the United States, DVD+RW has a 72 percent market share, while 19 percent goes to DVD-RW and 9 percent to DVD-RAM.

      Most makers contacted have adopted DVD plus. Wu Xiang-chun, a representative from the overseas division of Amoi, pointed out that a uniform standard will boost t

    • Yep. At this point nearly all drive support both, and even in the cases where only one is supported, it often reads to the other.

      So don't worry about it, buy a drive, and then buy compatable media. This should not be a surprise, as both formats were designed with the idea of allowing DVD players to play disks they record. There never was a reason to expect that one would win, it isn't like BETA vs. VHS where the formats were physically incompatible.

  • The big question is... (Score:4, Funny)

    by mangu ( 126918 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @09:45AM (#9605451)
    ...will they be able to copy the custom DVD's [slashdot.org] the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences is creating?

  • Semantic Key For The Clueless (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 04, 2004 @09:47AM (#9605461)

    DVD Burner - A 5.25" boxy thing you put into your computer case. Almost gratis.

    DVD Recorder - A stand-alone consumer electronics device you connect to your TV-set. Includes shiny packaging and remote control. No computer needed. Costs a bundle.

    • That's a good point why is it that a DVD burner costs (in Australia) $150-$200 while a DVD recorder costs ~$1200? Like when you consider say a TV tuner card for $100 (which I believe is quite expensive, I haven't looked at them for a long time) you can record TV with your computer for $300 tops. Now does it really cost $900 for the dedicated ADC chip to encode the AV signal?
      • I believe that the $100 Tv tuner isn't doing any encoding, it's just offloading that to the processor - the mpeg encoder chip increases the price quite a lot. Plus with a dvd recorder the picture will be much much better - have you seen the quality of wome of the cheap Tv tuners?
        • A Hauppague PVR-250 and 350 cost something like $150 and $250, respectively, and both have on-board MPEG and some other goodies, although I think they only record 480x480 when the standard for NTSC DVD is 720x480.

          I do agree some tuners on the cheap cards are somewhat nasty, and the chip capturing that tuned signal sometimes isn't so hot either. Unless you reneed Linux support, I suggest using Philip's SAA series chips over BookTree's (now Connexant) 8x8 series. Connexant does make a better video capture
          • Both the PVR 250 and 350 come with on board MPEG2 (and MPEG1) encoder (350 has h/w MPEG2 decoder also), and can record full PAL and/or NTSC resolutions at a quality better than what Discovery Channel uses for some broadcasts (can see artifacts) with a max. of 12 megabit / sec.

            The ivtv [sourceforge.net] project has a working driver in alpha afaik.

      • "That's a good point why is it that a DVD burner costs (in Australia) $150-$200 while a DVD recorder costs ~$1200?"

        Here in the USA, an 8x multiformat DVD burner is around $80-$90 if you shop online.

        A DVD recorder is around $200-$300. Prices have fallen signifigantly. Look at this [target.com]. $229 for a DVD recorder. Not bad at all.

        So, it looks like people in Australia are just getting ripped off. DVD recorders have been under $300 for about five months now in the US.

        • AUD != USD (Score:2, Informative)

          by novakreo ( 598689 ) *

          "That's a good point why is it that a DVD burner costs (in Australia) $150-$200 while a DVD recorder costs ~$1200?"

          Here in the USA, an 8x multiformat DVD burner is around $80-$90 if you shop online.

          A DVD recorder is around $200-$300. Prices have fallen signifigantly. Look at this. $229 for a DVD recorder. Not bad at all.

          So, it looks like people in Australia are just getting ripped off. DVD recorders have been under $300 for about five months now in the US.

          Biogenesis was using Australian Doll

    • Standalone DVD recorders are not expensive anymore. I saw a DVD recorder for $200 at costco a week ago. Firewire in, remote, all the bells and whistles. I might just get that pretty soon, it even had a TV tuner. It only supported DVD+R(and RW) (why?) and was some brand I'd never heard of. But hey it's Costco, no stupid restocking fee if you don't like it.

    • I'm surprised that computers with DVD burners themselves haven't squeezed DVD recorder prices.

  • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • DVD-Recorders, not DVD+/-R/RW Drives (Score:3, Informative)

    by BWS ( 104239 ) <swang@cs.dal.ca> on Sunday July 04, 2004 @10:02AM (#9605506)
    just to be clear, they are talking about DVD-Recorders; those are the things you hookup to your TV and record TV shows...

    not the DVD-/+ R/RW drives your computer uses..
  • Yawn. I have 3 DVD burners now, and don't need another one. What I would be much more interested in is reasonable prices on Blu-Ray recorders and media.

  • It's a cycle! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by igrp ( 732252 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @10:05AM (#9605520)
    If you like at the big picture, it's all part of a cycle. CD-R drives and USB sticks are so cheap and in wide-spread use these days that they've widely replaced conventional discs (at least, if you're looking at the middle class in developed countries).

    These days, it's actually not uncommon to be looked at strangely if you pull a 3.5" disc out of your briefcase. In a few years, a 3.5" disc will be as much of an exotic, strange relict as 5.25" discs are today. Many people these days, have never even seen or used a ZIP drive or a magnetic tape.

    As DVD records become cheaper (I rememeber when they were around $1500 not too long ago and people would ask why anyone would want a DVD burner) and, perhaps more importantly, DVD media reaches price levels currently associated with CD-R media more and more low-budget computers will come equipped with DVD-burners and not CD-RW drives.

    That's, at least in my humble opinion, one of the main reason CD-RW never really took off. There was just no reason to use rewriteable CDs. With relatively high-capacitiy recordable DVDs becoming widely available, CD-Rs just became so cheap there was no reason to reuse a CD-R.
    In a couple of years, CD-R will only be used to burn audio CDs. Most computers can already read DVDs so there's no reason for DVD-R/DVD+R not to be used even more widely.

    And the next DVD standard is already in the pipelines. Early adopters, new developments, consumer demand and, probably, the industry's demand for IP protection will eventually push the prices down enough for the new standards to replace the current DVD standard. The only thing that I think could interfere with this cycle is distributed computing along with truely distributed storage.

    • I think it's a little simpler than that. CD-R & -RW have their place: big file transfers, making music/MP3 CDs when you don't have an MP3 jukebox, inexpensive media, etc. But hard drive capacity has grown to such a point that they are no longer viable for system backups. Even my frickin' laptop, 4 1/2 years old as it is, has a 30 gig HD that you just can't back up on CD, it requires a DVD. I can back up critical data, but I can't do a full system backup with just 650-700 meg a disc.

      Writable CD has
    • These days, it's actually not uncommon to be looked at strangely if you pull a 3.5" disc out of your briefcase.

      Not half as strangely as when I pull my 8" floppy discs from the mid 80's...

  • DVD recorder price is going down. *yaaawn*. First the price of dvd (the one with film) is still SOOOooo high that now for the price of 3 dvd you can get a reader. Now the recorder will be cheap. To record *WHAT* ? With all those macrovision , protection scheme, DMCA, drm, and evil bit stopping you making copy of broadcast, what will be the usage of those device ? These day I am barely using my PVR to record anything...

  • DRM (Score:4, Interesting)

    by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @11:00AM (#9605756) Journal
    Outside hardware manufacturers are less likely to be controlled by hollywood so hopefully we can get cheap hardware that also ignores drm right? - broadcast flags, fast-forward flags etc. If the market can be flooded with these things then people will be less likely to take the MPAAs bullshit on broadcast flags. Technically they wouldnt be able to use the DVD logo but its not like the music industry cares about messing with formats (RIAA and MPAA are pretty much the same thing).

  • Is cheap good? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mratitude ( 782540 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @11:21AM (#9605932) Journal
    When VCR's were as cheap as $100 and came with all the bells and whistles, I bought a Sony that cost $500. On the surface, that didn't make any sense to most anyone at the time. However, 10 years later I still have that VCR and it functions as well as the day I bought it. The only problem I've had with it is the occasional head demag and I've had to replace grease that had crystalized and wasn't allowing the tape-grab assembly from keeping tension on the tape as it inserted/ejected the tape.

    So, I can get a DVD Recorder cheap but can I buy only one and enjoy its use till the media format nears obsolescence?
    • For that money you could have bought 5 of the cheap ones and kept pace with more recent developments (nicam, widescreen, etc.)
    • When VCR's were as cheap as $100 and came with all the bells and whistles, I bought a Sony that cost $500. On the surface, that didn't make any sense to most anyone at the time. However, 10 years later I still have that VCR and it functions as well as the day I bought it. The only problem I've had with it is the occasional head demag and I've had to replace grease that had crystalized and wasn't allowing the tape-grab assembly from keeping tension on the tape as it inserted/ejected the tape.

      I wouldn't bu

  • But there will be newer things.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by John Seminal ( 698722 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @11:22AM (#9605947) Journal
    Just like at one point my 8X CD-RW cost $200, I can now get a 52X CD-RW for $35. But who really wants a CD-RW, who longs for one? DVD+/-RW will continue to fall in price, but there is something new just around the corner. Dual Layer DVD's are there, and for those who want to back-up their DVD collection 1 disk to 1 disk will want the Dual Layer DVD+/-RW. There is always something new and better. The question is knowing what to buy and when. I got screwed 10 years ago buying an IBM PC because I beleived the salesperson that microchanel would become a standard and the AT clone machines would all cruble. I could not upgrade that machine because everything was proprietary and cost three times as much.

    I think this is just like hard drives. When I had my PIII500, I thought the 12 gig hard drive that came with it was all the space in the world, that I would never need more. Then I found napster, and those 12 gigs seemed so small.

    I for one am happy with these price falls because I am one who can not afford to buy the newest and greatest.

    The only thing I hate is the mail in rebate. If this 50% price fall comes in the way of the mail in rebate, they might as well not lower the price at all.

  • TV-based DVD recorders (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I have a Philips DVDR-70 which records from an integral analogue TV receiver, external satellite receiver or auxiliary device connected to a set of audio and video sockets on the front, and uses "plus" media (DV+R, DVD+R/W). There is an RF passthrough but no remodulator, so you need a telly with at least one SCART. Initial set-up is mostly automatic and all menu-driven. If you have an ultra-modern telly with EasyLink, set-up is even easier as it will use the SCART cable to transfer your settings from the
    • I'd recommend the DVDR-80. I bought one from the Littlewoods outlet shop in Ellesmere Port for 142 last month during their 25% off everything clearance they have every Sunday. Since then, they've made a point in excluding the DVD recorders as 142 was a bargain.
  • I for one am _pissed_ (in a childish way) that the DVD burners have fallen in price so damn fast. I can no longer charge a penny for doing quality DVD transfers because now the inbred swine can just buy a 70$ POS burner and it even comes with "DVD Mastering for Dummies" software. There went my 12-month business plan to subsidize the frickin' AV equipment.


  • So, has anyone used any of the DVD copying software from windows?? Can you make a recommendation, or anti-recommendation??
  • The dual layer blanks are too expensive and these stand alone players can't compress large dvd's.

    Who cares if the recorder is cheap if the dual layer blanks cost over $5 (in 100 packs).

    • the price of the blanks will fall as they become more common. A 10-pack of 5-1/4" disks for the TRS-80 used to be $40 over twenty years ago. Scale THAT to present day dollars!!

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