Broadband Over Power Lines vs. Radio Relayers 147
amaiman writes "Recently, broadband Internet access has been increasing around the country. These broadband signals, while providing Internet access to remote communities that would normally not be able to receive broadband, are causing enormous interference to the radio spectrum. This article details some of the problems, and a video available on the American Radio Relay League's (ARRL) site shows exactly how much interference the broadband power lines can cause. Detailed information is also available on the ARRL site."
Re:But I thought... (Score:2, Insightful)
de OH6GFR
Re:But I thought... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah. Good luck. The minute that happens, Mexico and Canada will start running high power at those frequencies.
Radio waves don't care about political borders. And it took Canada 20 years before we even got laws banning pirate US satellite equipment. It'll be another 100 before we get laws to protect US powerline broadband.
I suppose if you live in the center of the US, you'll be ok. Quickly! Everyone! Move to Kansas and get away from those other pesky countries!
>It may not be right, but that is what will happen. BPL will get more votes than hams.
Just about everything does, but HAMs still have their frequencies. Partly because if Americans lose them to commercial interests, nobody else cares, and the bands become useless anyways, except for short range communications.
Re:But I thought... (Score:5, Insightful)
There are far more users on the HF-band than just the hams. There are "small" communities like military and air traffic who are opposing BPL as well because it would also ruin their ways to communicate over a long distance without dragging cables with them or to have many radio relay stations along their routes.
Of course then there is satellite communications, but I don't think we will see gear suitable for, lets say, spec-op -troops to carry with them all the time to provide them reliable enough way to communicate with others like they can do with their small HF-radios.
And what about emergency situations? All communications and power is cut out for large areas. How would you call for help? Via radio, of course. But because of BPL nobody can hear your scream. "But hey", you would say, "then there will be no BPL around to mess with the communications". Yes, but there where the power and communcations, and the help of course, is, there might also be BPL so it would be hard for them to receive your message and your critical help might not arrive in time.
No, don't think me as an enemy of technology even after this. BPL is good technology, but at the moment I can't keep BPL mature enough yet to be used for what many are willing to use it now. It may be great technology for a last mile or to be used inside the building, but over airlines (or what ever you call telephone wires hanging on poles) for long distance not. Some European countries (e.g. Germany, IIRC) have banned BPL because of its interferencies and on many more countries it hasn't started to become popular because there has been more problems than success with current BPL technology.
The idea of BPL in it's current form is disgusting (Score:5, Insightful)
Under good conditions, you can transmit halfway across the world, with just 1-5 Watts of transmission power. The Amateur Radio community knows this as "QRP" operation, and it is quite popular. So, yes, even small amounts of HF noise will go a long way to interfere with shortwave communication.
20 years ago a sizable amount of communication was still being done by shortwave (HF) radio, and anybody thinking about poisioning large chunks of HF spectrum would've been declared a raving lunatic. Every kHz of HF spectrum was (and still is) a prized posession. Look up any frequency book from the 80's and you'll see that there wasn't a Hertz of HF spectrum unallocated, and it was (and still is) tightly controlled by international agreements. For large Radio stations (BBC, VOA), it is still the only way to connect to people in dictatorships and less advanced countries.
Today, most commercial and military communication in the US has moved to satellite; Only smaller services (in the west), third world countries, radio stations and HAM radio operators use HF. Of course, why would large power companies care about other countries or the BBC news ?
The HF spectrum is still the most valuable piece of electromagentic real estate there is in the World. Purposefully injecting additional noise into the band for no other reason than to save a few bucks is a terrible mistake and shows ignorance and recklessness on a staggering level.
Re:But I thought... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Interference (Score:3, Insightful)
Amateur radio is probably more relevant now than since the 1940's. Its real reason for existance beyond the first uregulated days of "gee isnt this neat" was to provide a steady supply of wireless operators to draft in the event of a war. Its not the only reason but its a major reason it survived.
Alan
I'm against it... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:But I thought... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's shoddy engineering that will cause interference to all HF users. These users are not the intended recipients of the signal in the slightest, therefore, it's an application of a technology to power lines that doesn't belong there.
I'd love to see my power lines bring broadband to my home faster and cheaper than my DSL or Cable connections. But not at the cost of trashing the radio spectrum. Find another way. Wireless ISP's using much higher frequencies and Part 15 devices are doing a much better job of engineering. 2.4 GHz, 5.3 GHz, and 5.8 GHz are all bands where a lot less people are inconvenienced by additional usage, and the use of spread-spectrum technology and the need at those frequencies for directional antennas alleviates many of the problems that plague BPL.
Re:The idea of BPL in it's current form is disgust (Score:2, Insightful)
A quick scan of the HF bands reveals quite a lot of RTTY and FAX still, as well as VOLMET and the HF civil aviation frequencies (which are still quite active, choose the right frequency and its almost continuously active over the Atlantic). I heard an RAF SSB frequency the other day, it was still active (although the traffic was mostly asking for updates on the football).
Then there's the US Government with its 'Radio Free $(region)' which is still active as well as all those US religious/evangelical stations.
The HF bands are still very active, and may even become moreso again if DRM (Digital Radio Mondial) takes off.
And the powerlines will probably not cause just HF interference. They could also cause interference on other bands, and may even affect medical equipment in hospitals as well as interference to emergency services.
It is a monumentally stupid idea...
(and if you want more broadband, well, BT is looking into running fibre optic cable to every house in the UK...)
Re:Yet another example... (Score:3, Insightful)
While I agree that ham radio would be the best way of doing comms, there are other alternatives like satellite links, although they aren't very efficient for local communications.
The attack that you speak of seems to shout out NUKE to me, so I will just point out that your radio on the giant antenna probably won't survive the emp from the blast.
I do agree with you though, in any non-nuclear scenario, HF radio is the best way to do things, otherwise you need to depend on fiber.
Re:Yet another example... (Score:2, Insightful)
From what I understand, once this goes out in mass, THAT'S when the problem will show, and THAT'S when it will be impossible to pull back. Once a good chuck of the powerlines are using this stuff, the damage is done. Even if there's a disaster that takes out power for a large part of the US, the interference is already floating out there in the areas that aren't out. The concerns I've heard is that the interference hit large areas due to cummulative affects.
Unless a power outage takes out ALL power then we still have the problem. And, that just for our country. If we use it, you know either other countries will use it or find some way of dealing with the leakage that is just as harmful. The concerns being brought up are for long term and for wide area problems which could be caused by this tech. The studies and counter-arguments are not covering this at all. They are all basing it on short term and simple one-installation tests that don't answer the other conerns. THAT'S the frustration. At least that's the impression I've gotten...
Re:Yet another example... (Score:2, Insightful)
What you may not realize is that I am a emergenct coordinator for my town. We Hams run monthly drills and participate in events like the NYC Marathon, Special Olympics and other large scale events. This is always done at our own expense as we can not accept any money. If we can't enjoy our hobby there is NO incentive to continue to provide the public service we do. So when something happens don't look for us to pull your ass out of the fire.