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Hardware Science

Is Your Computer Leaking Toxic Dust? 372

Posted by michael from the goggles-do-nothing dept.
n0alpha writes "A recent study by scientists at the University of Washington suggests that computers emit dangerous chemicals. Specifically, chemicals called PBDEs (poly-brominated-diphyenyl ethers) found in the household dust that collects on your monitor and keyboard could pose a health threat. Scientists say the chemicals have caused developmental and learning defects in laboratory animals and may pose a threat to people and animals. 'It's critical we phase these materials out,' said Suellen Mele, Citizens for Resource Conservation. And some companies are doing just that."
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Is Your Computer Leaking Toxic Dust? More

Is Your Computer Leaking Toxic Dust?

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  • 'dats a rhetorical question... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:25AM (#9333929) Homepage Journal

    Is Your Computer Leaking Toxic Dust?

    Being that they found these toxins on every computer sampled... As an aside, does anyone know what causes "New Computer Smell"? Obviously chemicals but what ones?

  • I tire of it (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:26AM (#9333940)
    no matter what you have and/or do, it will kill you, don't run in front of a speeding truck. no parasute free skydiving, now bungey jumping with only twine. now this.

  • *sigh* (Score:4, Funny)

    by lordkuri ( 514498 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:27AM (#9333941)
    Ya know what... this is going to be another email chain letter... nimby's going ape over the "new killer problem omg!!!" for the next 3 months.

    people... *life* is dangerous... deal with it

    • Re:*sigh* (Score:4, Insightful)

      by trentblase ( 717954 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:28AM (#9333954)
      Yes, but it's good to calculate your risks. Some things ARE more dangerous than others. I'm glad they "phased out" asbestos, for example. (In new construction at least)

      • Re:*sigh* (Score:2, Funny)

        by lordkuri ( 514498 )
        I agree with your sentiment... we *should* get rid of these things... moreover just venting about the sheeplike mentality of the general public

    • Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:32AM (#9333989)
      Unfortunately for us, in the US at least, we have become overly obsessed with germs and germ fighting. Everything you see kills 99.9% of bacteria!

      Soon we will be bathing in extra strength bleach, drinking pool water (we basically do), and using disposable/burnable everything.

      The more that we try to "fight" bacteria the more our civilization becomes prone to simple infection.

      • Re:*sigh* (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Big Nothing ( 229456 ) <tord.stromdal@gmail.com> on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:46AM (#9334126)
        BDE is not a bacteria or germ or anything of that sorts - it's a highly toxic chemical, much like PCB or DDT. The volume in each computer is not really a health risk to _you_ (unless you are a small child or a pregnant woman), but the accumulation of BDE in nature is an environmental danger that should be addressed.

      • Re:*sigh* (Score:4, Insightful)

        by surprise_audit ( 575743 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @10:29AM (#9334513)
        There's an EPA study that links chlorine to cancer too, so bathing in bleach or drinking pool water exposes you to a carcinogen. Same with regular tap water, of course.

        You have to weigh the risks, though. Peru took that study to heart and stopped chlorinating their tap water, thereby saving an estimated 180 people out of a population of 18,000,000. The result? 600,000 cases of cholera with 4,000 deaths. It's not limited to Peru, either. The epidemic spread through Latin America and in a 6 year period there were more than 1.3 million cases and over 11,000 deaths.

    • Re:*sigh* (Score:3, Funny)

      by mwood ( 25379 )
      Yah, now I'm gonna have to stop collecting all that dust and eating it for breakfast. Why can't they make computers without any chemicals in them?

      Oh!

    • BAN DHMO (Score:4, Funny)

      by iammrjvo ( 597745 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @11:28AM (#9335113) Homepage Journal

      These toxins are produced with DHMO [dhmo.org]!

      SUPPORT A BAN ON DHMO! [dhmo.org]

      "It's a moral imperative."

  • I'm glad... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Cytlid ( 95255 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:27AM (#9333942)
    ...I stopped licking my keyboard when I was 16.
    • Im guessing that toxic dust probably wasn't one of the reasons.

    • some of us are a tad more concerned (Score:4, Insightful)

      by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @10:59AM (#9334798)
      ...I stopped licking my keyboard when I was 16.

      I know you all think that's really funny, but as someone who's done a fair amount of desktop support, I've cleaned many a keyboard/monitor and especially CPU by dusting with a can of air. Which has usually generated a huge plume of dust. Which I've certainly inhaled quite a bit of.

      So pardon as I act a little more concerned than you, because this reads much like the stories from 60 year old guys with lung cancer who worked in asbestos plants and whatnot. "Sure, there was all this stuff flying around, but hey, we thought, 'its just dust'" etc.

    • Boy, am I high! Just smoked a monitor.

  • Death.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:27AM (#9333943)
    Well, I guess my computer WILL be the death of me ; ;

    • Hrmph! (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Like geeks keep shit clean anyway. Only thing worse than living in a damp, dusty, mother's basement while consuming week-old moldy pizza is going outside and having the chance that you might be hit by a subway car being ejected from the tunnels ala Speed.

  • Yeah right... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Your_Mom ( 94238 ) <slashdot@i[ ]smir.net ['nni' in gap]> on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:27AM (#9333946) Homepage
    Like I could develop a learning disability from chemicals leaking from my... uh... thingamjig...

    Crap....
  • Today's date is most definitely NOT April 1st.

    That being said...

    RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

  • Dangerous (Score:4, Insightful)

    by muttoj ( 572791 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:29AM (#9333961)
    Reading this post is bad for my eyes. Going to the toilet to often can give me RSI and serious backproblems. Eating wears out my jawbones. Everything is bad for you if you sart thinking about it. Everything dangerous is called life.

  • glow (Score:3, Funny)

    by pbrinich ( 238041 ) * on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:30AM (#9333973)
    You mean that neon green glow coming from the back of my case is not healthy?

    Toxic, it's such a harsh word, how about "Not encouraging to one's health"

  • In RTFA, I saw that... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dagny Taggert ( 785517 ) <[hankrearden] [at] [gmail.com]> on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:31AM (#9333987) Homepage
    they also mentioned that these compounds are found on many electronic devices. Let's just suppose, for the sake of argument, that this dust shortens your life span by 10-15 years. Are we willing to change our lives radically (go back to 19th century living) in order to live longer? Or will we just deal with it as a cost of progress? Like an earlier poster said, everything kills you.

    • Re:In RTFA, I saw that... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Patrik_AKA_RedX ( 624423 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:41AM (#9334074) Journal
      How about using decent ventilation? Any electronic device contains materials that are very unhealty. But I doubt any of that would be really such a hazard if you'd provide sufficent ventilation and occationaly use a vacuum cleaner in the way they were intended to use.
      Just look at what a single factory dumps in the air. I'd be more worried about that.

    • Re:In RTFA, I saw that... (Score:5, Informative)

      by ishark ( 245915 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:43AM (#9334089)
      Well, the article says that there are 150+ other compounds which can act as fire retardant, so it's just a matter of choosing another one instead of disposing of all the electronics equipment.....
      • I assure you that the same group will complain about each and every one of the 150+ other compounds as soon as they are used in similar quantitities. And if they aren't as effective, the national fire protection council will add their voices in too.

        Headline: TOXIC COMPUTERS CATCH FIRE, KILL CHILDREN AND SENIORS!

        • Re:In RTFA, I saw that... (Score:4, Insightful)

          by chriso11 ( 254041 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @10:14AM (#9334392) Journal
          Well, if after a scientific process, it is determined that the chemicals are toxic, then what is your proposal? Dump mecury over the ocean so everything is dead?

          In case you don't realize, not everything needs to be made of plastic. There was once this material called 'metal' (pronounced me' tal). Many metals are quite fire resistant. Computers, keyboards, and mice could easily be made of such a material.

          • >There was once this material called 'metal' (pronounced me' tal).

            Yes, quite tasty metals, such as lead, aluminum, and cadmium.

            Can I be the first to have that cool mercury trackball?
          • In case you don't realize, not everything needs to be made of plastic. There was once this material called 'metal' (pronounced me' tal). Many metals are quite fire resistant. Computers, keyboards, and mice could easily be made of such a material.

            They could be made from such a material. Not 'easily', though. Not in the sense that they can be made 'easily' with moulded plastic.

            And not inexpensively. Personally, I think modern plastics are *way* underrated for the quality of life they've given us. This is
    • "Are we willing to change our lives radically (go back to 19th century living)"

      No, but we can probably get by without fire-retardant in all our products.

      • the solution proposed in the article is to use non-toxic fire retardants. Sounds logical. I volunteer to get free new electronic equipment to test the effects of the new fire retardant chemicals on the human body over a long period of time.
    • I don't think we will live longer if we go back to 19th century living.
    • was I believe around 45, it's around 75 now so even if we factor in 10-15 years, it's still better (if that means longer) even if we don't go back to 19th century living.

  • Legislation (Score:4, Informative)

    by Big Nothing ( 229456 ) <tord.stromdal@gmail.com> on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:32AM (#9333990)
    Here in Sweden the PBDEs are already banned through legislation, and I think the entire EU is on the way towords a ban as well.

    • Re:Legislation (Score:5, Informative)

      by Big Nothing ( 229456 ) <tord.stromdal@gmail.com> on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:41AM (#9334072)
      After some research, I can provide some more informations without totally talking out of my ass:

      Penta- and octa-BDE (PBDE and OBDE) are the most toxic and will be banned in the entire EU come august (not yet banned here in Sweden, sorry for the irresponsible, blatant lie).

      Deca-BDE will not be banned in EU yet, but Sweden is working on getting a national ban (and trying to get EU to ban DBDE as well).

      I sit corrected.

  • In other news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by AbbyNormal ( 216235 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:32AM (#9333991) Homepage
    The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!
    Seriously, every week we hear about the risks of eating too many carbs and then studies proving otherwise. We hear about why we should buy this and do that. Now we'll start hearing about new improved "Air filters" that remove the new threat of "PBDE"...Only four monthly payments of $69.99! These companies will start cropping up, the moment this story hits the local news channels.

    Its kind of sad, but I don't trust most funded scientific studies anymore, they all seem out to snatch our dollar for some other ulterior motive.
    • The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!

      Did you know the sky CAN fall in some places? On May 10, 1996, 8 climbers died on Mt Everest when the stratosphere sank down on to the summit.

      Source: news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=601612004
    • Talk about motives, I couldn't believe there is actually a group called "The Bromine Science and Environmental Forum" made up of a few big bromine manufacturers. Imagine them as little kids saying "When I grow up I want to lobby for bromine!" These guys must have absolutely fascinating lives.
    • Maybe, but I can't imagine anyone ever coming back in a couple of years and saying these chemicals are good for us.

      Also, if you act now you can SmartBuy my new AntiSkyFaller for 3 easy paments of just 49.99. That's $20 less than your air filter. Call now.

      • Re:In other news... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by tsg ( 262138 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @10:48AM (#9334690)
        Maybe, but I can't imagine anyone ever coming back in a couple of years and saying these chemicals are good for us.

        As far as I can tell, nobody can really tell for sure that they are bad for us now. I haven't been able to find any health effects on humans, and the studies I have found are limited to lab mice and don't appear to be conclusive (IANA biologist). If someone could point me towards something a little more conclusive I would appreciate it.

        I'm not saying there definitely isn't a problem, but at the very least it looks like we need more research. There's enough bad science going on now to make me skeptical of any health warnings printed in major news media, and the article takes it as a given that PDBE's are toxic to humans while only really reporting that they are present in computers.

  • It's true!!!! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:32AM (#9333995)
    If you snort two or three tons of this stuff, over the period of a few days, it will kill you!

    Think of the children!!

    • Re:It's true!!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by harrkev ( 623093 ) <kevin@harrelson.gmail@com> on Friday June 04, 2004 @10:19AM (#9334444) Homepage
      I know that you are trying to be funny, but my budget allows me $1000 to build a new computer in the next couple of months (big news for me, since I use a Celeron 466 at home). I also have two small children at home -- a three-year-old and a two-year-old, and I love them very much and want them to be healthy.

      What I want to know is if the "dust" is left on the item from manufacture, or if the "dust" is regular houshold dust which leeches chemicals from any exposed surface. The first one you can hope to clean off, the second one you can't. I did read a version of the article linked from the Yahoo new site (not sure how different it is from the article mentioned here). But in the article that I read, they just found dust, and apparently made no effort to determine the source, or if cleaning a new computer would help.

      And if chemicals are being emitted by every available surface, are any airborne, or do they need a carrier such as dust in order to travel?

      If the resudue can be cleaned off of the parts, what is a safe cleaner to use on a motherboard?

      At least I am glad that I have already decided on an Antec server case which has air filters over the intake fans in the front. If I do find a way to clean off the mobo and other internal electronics, then I might be able to keep dust off of the inside of the case.

  • UW? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by abscondment ( 672321 )

    Good to know it's not just the lead paint in my apartment.

    btw, that article doesn't mention the university of washington at all. Google doesn't seem to think they have anything, either [google.com]

  • Already there. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PhrostyMcByte ( 589271 ) <phrosty@gmail.com> on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:34AM (#9334006) Homepage
    Umm, if it collects on your puter and monitor, it was already there. Just now it's in one place for easier cleaning.
  • Well, I think benzene is one of the chemical that causes one of the biggest health threat.

    If I recon correctly, gasoline fumes contains beneze. Have we stopped using gas ? I think not.

    Everything is a question of risk. Just going outside is a health risk. Let's stop panicking for a while. We all gotta die of something.

    • If I recon correctly, gasoline fumes contains beneze. Have we stopped using gas ?

      No, but most western countries have put limits on the amount of benzene permissible in gasoline, eg: USA [doe.gov], Canada [justice.gc.ca], etc.
  • Does this mean /.ers will be the first to go? We probubally spend more time at a computer than just about anyone else.

  • And just how many grams per mouse did it take?? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by the_rajah ( 749499 ) * on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:40AM (#9334051) Homepage
    "Scientists say the chemicals have caused developmental and learning defects in laboratory animals" A lot of substances are harmful in high concentrations and are these compounds not also found elsewhere? Let's take a realistic look at this before we panic and start wearing gas masks when we are within 10 feet of our computers.

    Who needs cases anyway? It's a lot easier to change the configuration on my machines if I don't have to mess with those pesky cases anyway.

    "Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
    • before we panic and start wearing gas masks when we are within 10 feet of our computers.

      Now I can have an accessory to go with my Tinfoil Hat, a matching TINFOIL GASMASK. Who said nerds had no fashion sense!

    • 'Cuz they're probably also in the plastic in your motherboard, cables, and everything else. Better leave your computer outside, and run the cables through a sealed hole in your wall. Oh, and get rid of all plastic products in your house, from carpet to cookware, painted or stained wood materials (ya never can be too safe), and just about anything else developed in the past 200 years. Oh, and avoid some types of wood - cedar is a potent allergen for some, so who knows what kinds of effects that can cause. An

  • Computers will kill us all (Score:4, Funny)

    by Mr.Dippy ( 613292 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:40AM (#9334058)
    So let me get this straight.

    Computers
    1.Cause neurological damage
    2.Cause your eyes to go semi blind.
    3.Cause you to become lazy and fat


    Am I missing anything here?

  • The website has plenty of propaganda (Score:4, Informative)

    by Crasoum ( 618885 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:41AM (#9334066) Journal
    The capacity of PBDEs to bioaccumulate in fatty tissue and biomagnify up the food chain, in combination with their persistence and toxicity make this class of chemicals of high concern to the environment and human health.

    If you eat your pets, you have more problems then just PBDEs

    Now the accumilate of this chemical through birds is worrysome, just like what has been happeenign with Mecury and Pesticides, but how much of the article is just scare tactics of few to frighten many?

    As all things, before anyone becomes overly worried, research. Afterall it takes some odd 100+ cans of diet Dr pepper with saccharine a day to get possible cancer.

    Then again, I could be mis-informed
    • It might take some odd 100+ cans of soda with saccarine to get cancer, but:

      - What about the flavor enhancers, dyes, preservatives, and other such synthetic 'foods' which we eat daily?
      - What about the horemones, pesticides, and animal drugs which we eat whenever we consume meat?
      - What about the pesticides we eat whenever we consume even non-processed fruits?
      - What about the polution from combusted petrolium?
      - What about the mercury that is now all-too-present in nearly all fish?
      - What about the chlorine and

  • Further proof (Score:3, Funny)

    by Exiler ( 589908 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:42AM (#9334080)
    that research causes disorders in lab animals.

  • You can joke but... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:44AM (#9334108)
    It's already been documented that silicon valley has the highest incidence of autism in children, as well as a growing rate of infertility. No idea on cancer yet.

    Health care people also have increasing rates of autistic children, and at the same time their work environment has become increasingly technical (higher end imaging systems etc) I have not seen breakouts on different professions, expect more studies to follow.

    I have four friends with recently diagnosed autistic kids, Parents: radiation technician, nurse, medical equipment technician, programmer, data administrator.

    The fall of the Roman empire was attributed partly to the fact that the wealthy and affluent would drink wines out of lead vessels while the poor drank from animal sacks. The wealthy and powerful ended up poisoning their minds and allowed the barbarians to overun them. We may be doing the exact same thing with technology.

    Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.

    • Re:You can joke but... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by slackerboy ( 73121 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @10:08AM (#9334341)
      Yes, and some of that is quite possibly due to an increased knowledge of autism and therefore increased diagnosis.

      In the case of Silicon Valley, I read an article that talked about the fact that there are an unusually high number of children with Asperger syndrome (a mild form of autism). Since people with Asperger are still fairly functional in society but have some quirks (like the inability to understand that not everyone sees things the same way they do), some scientists believe that a lot of geeks may actually have undiagnosed Asperger's. Once you concentrate enough people with this syndrome/genetic predisposition for it and then they start raising families of their own...

      Which is not to say that there are no other causes, just that they may not be environmental. The fact of the matter is that no one really understands autism.
    • And surely some of that is due to misdiagnosis. My nephew was diagnosed with autism at age 5 by a school psychologist after some behavioral problems. Turned out they were wrong and the boy was just having separation anxiety from being away from his mom at kindergarten.

      The doctor who diagnosed the separation anxiety said that autism has become the ADD of this decade. If you can't find a reasonable answer, it must be autism.
    • It's already been documented that silicon valley has the highest incidence of autism in children, as well as a growing rate of infertility.

      Correlation does not prove causation.

      I have four friends with recently diagnosed autistic kids, Parents: radiation technician, nurse, medical equipment technician, programmer, data administrator.

      Nor does anecdotal evidence.
  • Circuit design uses many toxic chemicals and some manufacturers have been sloppy about it. Some new fab processes use safer stuff like C02 and citris.

  • But I didn't realize that spontaneous computer combustion during shipment was a problem that needed a solution. Dockworker carelessly flicks a cigarette into a pile of computers and they go up like California sage brush? Who knew?

  • Think how your intellect is affected. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by index72 ( 591909 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:49AM (#9334153)
    I know of a banking software support department that was a victim of toxic overload. Their work area was full of computers, smelly carpet on the floor and walls of the cubicles and chemical emmiting magic markers strewn profusely around the work area. Added to that were stacks of computer manuals emitting printing ink vapors. The coup de grace was the cleaning lady that would spray deodorizer and wipe everybody's cubicle down with a cloth so dirty it probably was infected with several new undocumented life forms. What happened here was a situation where a large bank's database needed repairig, a major change that was to be done remotely from the tech support area. A dozen or so guys sat in on planning the change as well as the head of the department. A considerable amount of time was devoted to developing the proposed change. They diagrammed out the change on their chemically saturated ink pen markup board, the kind that is so common these days in corporations (no mind that junkies sniff the same type markers to get high). While they made their changes the cleaning lady made her rounds, the network laser printer spewed pages and clouds of toxic vapors, the fax machine added to this toll of chemical brew. When the time came to make the changes on the bank's ACTIVE database the mouse was clicked. One guy said as soon as that was done he realized they had screwed up. A banking system that processed tens of millions of dollars per hour was brought to it's knees. These guys were literally poisoned by the conditions prevailing in their work area and it made them look like chumps. There were other signs, particulary a high rate of headaches and one guy even had a sinus infection so bad that he ended up in the hospital(he was taking asprin because he just thought he had a 2 week long headache). While no one source of chemical outgassing is particularly signifigant it adds up.

  • Patent expired (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ballpoint ( 192660 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:51AM (#9334174)
    PBDE's were first used in the 1970. All related patents are expired by now, and the revenue stream is tanking due to increased competition. Time to 'leak' some info to the greens who will happily lobby to have these 'dangerous' chemicals outlawed.

    Too cynical ?

  • Dust ON computers? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lone_marauder ( 642787 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:56AM (#9334226)
    I am a little confused. My research indicates that computers really don't generate very much dust at all. When they are new, they are very clean and generally devoid of fibrous substances that could be liberated as dust.

    I have found, however, that computers make excellent dust accumulators. PBDEs are not only used in computers, but also in children's pajamas, mattresses, etc. - all of which generate large quantities of dust. If there are harmful flame retardant chemicals in the dust, wouldn't that have more to do with the mattress, furniture, and clothing than it would with the computer?

  • CDC FAQ on PBBs and PBDEs (Score:4, Informative)

    by rtos ( 179649 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @09:58AM (#9334241) Homepage
    US CDC has a rather helpful list of questions and answers called ToxFAQs(TM) for Polybrominated Biphenyls and Polybrominated Diphenyl Ethers (PBBs AND PBDEs) [cdc.gov]. Of particular interest is this:
    "
    HIGHLIGHTS: Polybrominated biphenyls (PBBs) and polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDEs) are manmade chemicals found in plastics used in a variety of consumer products to make them difficult to burn. Some people who ate food contaminated with PBBs in the 1970s had skin problems. Almost nothing is known about health effects of PBDEs in people. PBBs have been found in at least 9 of the 1,613 National Priorities List sites identified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). PBDEs have not been identified in any of the 1,613 sites."
    Basically, we don't really know much about the effects on humans of this class of chemicals. That said, they do seem to be very persistant chemicals... which could exacerbate any problems that do eventually show up.

    Either way, I guess we should all stop licking our monitors and keyboards just in case.

    • Well, if we want to build fire-retardant structural components for computers, maybe we could go back to making them out of metal. I already hated these flimsy plastic cases...maybe I can get a doctor's note to have them replaced!
  • Maybe this is a way to finally get techno-geeks to clean the dust and crumbs off of their systems.

    I hope they do some followup research on the things hiding in my keyboard.

  • Take another look at the second article in the original post. Their tests were measured in pg/cm^2. Picograms. As in 10^-12 grams. It's gonna take a while for the compounds to accumulate to toxic levels (on the order of mg/kg body weight).

    Also, remember that the PBDEs are primarily used as cleaners and anti-flammability agents in the manufacturing processes of many electronics. They're not being created by your monitors (i.e., there's a finite amount of them per piece of computer equipment, so they'll

  • They put fire retardant in computers?

    If so, I've never found it to be very effective with equipment that I've owned.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Heck, Mothers accross the wold have been trying to do that for years!
  • "Is your computer leaking toxic dust?"

    I sure hope so. I'd like it to kill me before my job does. At least my death would be caused by something I like.

  • So, how does the hazard of the dust from the two computers and eight laptops in my office compare to the hazard of the fumes from the new carpet and fresh paint that my boss insisted on?

    Yeah, I kinda thought so.
  • What did they do in the lab? make the rats each the dust?

    How many of us lick their keyboards or computer cases anyway? Is there scientific study around that?

  • Doing something (Score:2, Insightful)

    by gillbates ( 106458 )

    What really irks me is that these chemicals aren't even needed - flame retardants are used because US companies fear getting sued if someone's monitor catches fire and burns down the building.

    It appears that in their "quest for safety", or "liability shield" in corporate-speak, they've actually made their products more hazardous.

    Quite frankly, I'm sick of the "We must do something" approach. This is the same thinking that led to:

    • Companies using a flame retardant in children's pajamas which was lat
    • I'm sorry, before ABS, the reasonable expectation was that if you slam on your brakes, your wheels lock up and you take longer to stop, and loose directional control of your car.
      ABS may make the distance to stop your car slightly greater in dry weather, if you can brake like Niki Lauda or Michael Schumacher.

      I know I pretty much can't do that, so I'll gladly slam on the brakes as hard as I can, and let the computer figure it out, I guarantee you that I'll stop faster that way.

  • "Alle Ding sind Gift und nichts ohn Gift; alein die Dosis macht das ein Ding kein Gift ist" [all things are poison and notwithout poison; only the dose makes a thing not a poison"]

    Paracelsus (1493-1541), Father of Toxicology

    The scientists in the studies reported their results in units of picograms per cm2. So they found from basicaly nothing, to slightly more than nothing - their maximim combined concentration of the brominated flame retardants was about 300 picograms, or 300 x 10e-12 g/cm2, or 3x10e-10


  • ... may pose a threat to people and animals.

    Uhh, Newsflash -- People are animals. Homo sapiens to be exact.

  • Very surprised... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by akaina ( 472254 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @10:26AM (#9334498) Journal
    I am very surprised at the reaction from the community here. I hate FUD spreading fear-mongers as much as the next geek, but this isn't the first time we've learned that we need to actively remove dangerous substances from daily interaction.

    Anyone here have exposed their kids to PB based paint? Anyone here use any DDT on their lawn this year?

    These chemicals are cummulative and the damage cannot be undone. Let's hope these kind of studies continue to educate law makers.

    We really shouldn't be so lax about infant technology that hasn't been fully explored.

  • Since PBDE is used for flame retardant, hold your expensive equipment next to a blowtorch

  • Some numbers and thoughts... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Idarubicin ( 579475 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @11:01AM (#9334812) Journal
    From the linked report, the highest concentrations observed in the sampled dust were on the order of 200 pg/cm^2. That's 2E-10 grams per square centimeter; most of their measurements found lower concentrations.

    Their wipe tests were performed after dust was allowed to accumulate for at least five days. Let's suppose that I regularly remove and ingest the dust from 200 cm^2 of my computer. That would be licking the dust off about thirty square inches of my computer's case.

    In that case, I'm being exposed to 40 ng per week, or about 2 micrograms per year. That's about 0.1 mg over the course of my lifetime--a tenth of a milligram.

    A recent literature review(1) (abstract [nih.gov] and full text [nih.gov]) gives a threshold for toxicity due to octa-BDE (the most toxic compounds studied in the wipe tets) as 2 mg/kg (fetal toxicity/teratongenicity, rat and rabbit models.)

    The most toxic compound being phased out (penta-BDE; not measured in the wipe tests) affects neurobehavioural development from 0.6 mg/kg (rat and mouse models.)

    The carcinogenicity of these compounds is not well-characterized, however any effects seem to appear at much higher exposures that one would expect in the real world.

    In other words, these compounds bear watching and the fact that they are bioaccumulative is troubling--but they're definitely not something to panic about. I'd also be more concerned about ingestion from other sources--bioaccumulations in fish and eggs--rather than from your computer hardware. Those problems, in turn, can be addressed through proper disposal of retired computer equipment.

    (1) Darnerud PO. "Toxic effects of brominated flame retardants in man and in wildlife." Environ. Int. 29(6):841-53 (2003).

  • A little sanity from The Reg's article-- (Score:5, Insightful)

    by caveat ( 26803 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @11:17AM (#9334992)
    "According to other scientists, such as Dr. Gina Solomon, senior scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council, there is no need to panic. They say that although the levels of PBDEs are high enough to be worth talking about, they are unlikely to pose a serious threat to human health."

    'Nuff said.

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