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A Different Take On PC Manus' 'Recycling' Schemes 179

Posted by timothy from the please-toss-your-obsolete-opteron-my-way dept.
Timex writes "Linux Devices is reporting that the COO of Linux startup Symbio Technologies, Roger Del Russo, claims that the recycling programs of Dell and HP are nothing more than a means of getting older systems out of use, to be replaced by newer systems. Mr Del Russo then makes the case for putting the older systems to good use as thin clients, using the Linux Terminal Server Project."
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A Different Take On PC Manus' 'Recycling' Schemes More

A Different Take On PC Manus' 'Recycling' Schemes

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  • LTSP (Score:3, Informative)

    by g-to-the-o-to-the-g ( 705721 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @07:42PM (#9227048) Homepage Journal
    We use the LTSP at school, it makes working on the older computers (such as the ones in the library) not so unbearable. On the same note, must of the computers in my school are dual-boot w2k/red hat.

    • Re:LTSP (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Daengbo ( 523424 )
      K12LTSP [k12ltsp.or] is the "install and run" distro for school's thin clients. I have used it at two schools and am using their setup to produce ISOs for Thai schools based on LinuxTLE [opentle.org].

  • Teaching Old Systems New Tricks (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LaBlueCow ( 768184 ) <rdragone@adelphia.net> on Saturday May 22, 2004 @07:44PM (#9227055)
    Well, in Soviet Russia... wait, no, I refuse to make such a stupid comment... :)
    Seriously though, this sounds like it might be a decent idea. There's nothing wrong with using old systems for something... how many people out there run their old 486DXs as firewalls or NATs, honestly? Probably quite a few...
    And, if ANYthing can turn an old system into something new and useful, it would have to be Linux. For all the griping about it, it's far superior to any Microsoft product when it comes to custom built applications (not the program types, thats another story) for hardware... way to go!
    Oh, and I think this MIGHT be a FP... not sure :)

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @07:49PM (#9227076)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Nice but not cheap (Score:5, Funny)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Saturday May 22, 2004 @07:52PM (#9227087) Homepage Journal

    Using old PCs as Linux stations is a great idea, but when you include the $699 licensing fee it can add up quickly.

  • "Recycling" (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 6Yankee ( 597075 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @07:53PM (#9227090)

    A former colleague of mine tells me there is now a skip in the loading bay, full of Dell desktop and laptop machines. These are going back to be "recycled".

    They could have sold the laptops two or three times over, but these machines must go back to Dell because "they're 70% recyclable". As this chap pointed out, surely if they were sold they'd be 100% recyclable. Which does indeed beg the question, is recycling really the aim here?

    • Re:"Recycling" (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      It most certainly does NOT beg the question. It raises a good question.
    • Does it help clear up the muddle to recall that their is a difference between "recycling" and "reusing"?

    • Re:"Recycling" (Score:3, Interesting)

      by 0racle ( 667029 )
      Who cares why Dell, HP and whoever else is promoting recycling programs, its enough that they are. Quite frankly, if you thought they were doing it for some other reason then to sell new systems, well your an idiot aren't you.

      There's a lot of people here have commented that they use older systems in various situations, and I do to, but lets face it, we're special cases. We did it because we could and we already know what to do. The majority of people on the other hand don't and so I think its a good thin

      • Re:"Recycling" (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Halfbaked Plan ( 769830 )
        The majority of people can and have figured out how to plug the various cords in and get an old system up and running. It isn't a 'rare priesthood' who would recycle these systems. It's regular folks who don't have a computer. It's kids who might have a family system available in the rec room but not one they control themselves that they can make their own mistakes and learn from using.

        I see this sort of top-down recycling program as a tendency (won't go so far as to call it a conspiracy) to keep 'free'

    • Re:"Recycling" (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "surely if they were sold they'd be 100% recycled"

      Reuse, Repair, Recycle.

    • Re:"Recycling" (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Technician ( 215283 )
      full of Dell desktop and laptop machines

      One thing I noticed is DELL wants your old printer. My wife got a new DEL with an all in one printer. They included instructions to use the printer box to ship your old printer for re-cycling. They even included a pre-paid return shipping label. I think they want you to buy the ink from them.

      I decided to do research on it. The cartridges do not state how much ink they hold or estimated page yield. You can't buy DELL ink in any retail store. The prices were ab

  • Seems fishy, what are their real motives? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Does anyone else read that article as "Hey! What they're doing is evil and they're just trying to get more money out of you, but...... We can SELL you a service that allows you to use your old boxes for other stuff!" ?

  • When I worked at a Gateway store (Score:3, Informative)

    by LennyDotCom ( 26658 ) <Lenny@lenny.com> on Saturday May 22, 2004 @07:56PM (#9227102) Homepage Journal
    Gateway came out with a trade in program and if I remember correctly they didn't hide the fact they werer trying to get old systems out of use.

  • A good idea but... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by igrp ( 732252 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @07:56PM (#9227103)
    Well, in essence this is a good idea. Thin clients work great in certain environments and for certain target audiences. The problem, however, is that their applications are limited by nature, and are becoming more and more limited over time.

    Sure, you can use PINE or tin on an older PC without problems. Sure, you can try and shift the computing and processing burden away from the (thin) client. That, however, won't make the end users happy. They are accustomed to a certain level of usability, both regarding speed and user interface. People just plain don't want to deal with anything other - or less - than what they're used to.

    So, whilst there are still applications for older systems as thin clients you're mostly limited to situations where your intended user base simply doesn't have a choice. As soon as they're paying for it or depending on your it for their daily work most people just won't accept being forced to use an old computer. They want their new, shiny PC and their sexy, modern LCD screen.

    • Re:A good idea but... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by xeno-cat ( 147219 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @08:53PM (#9227322) Homepage
      I think you are seriously uninformed about what thin clients are, how well they perform and peoples willingness to use them.

      I am writing this post on my daily workstation which is a 150MHZ Cyrix chip with 64MB of RAM, no HD and a 100mbps ethernet card. I share a 1ghz AMD server with 5 other people here who are using similiar thin client setups. I have a sweet 17" BenQ LCD Panel and a sexy KB and mouse. I can't even see the actual computer I am using, which is really just a bunch of computer guts in a drawer (with no fans so it's totaly silent).

      People come to my desk, look at my screen and say "Wow! Nice technology!". I open the drawer and show them what it is running on and they get seriously confused and start asking all sorts of quesitons.

      The point is that thin clients work for todays technology needs. What people really want is a computer they can count on to provide the types of applications they need to use in a reliable manner. Thin clients fit that bill perfectly. Not to mention the whole office is a breeze to administer, practicaly zero administration actually.

      No Need to run PINE or a terminal, I run KDE 3.2.2 with Mozilla, OpenOffice, Evolution, Gimp, etc. etc. I can site down at any terminal in my office, log in to my account and get work done.

      People come in off the street to use our public internet terminal and deal with Linux just fine. They feel they are using the latest technology because the LCD Monitor looks so jazzy. And frankly, they are using the latest technology because thin clients are the future.

      Kind Regards
      • By the same token, I have an i-Opener in my bedroom. It's got a 16MB flash drive in it with a minimal linux installation which I use pretty much just for the X server, and I X -query a virtual machine on my windows system and run gnome2.
      • And frankly, they are using the latest technology because thin clients are the future.

        And the past.
        • "And the past"

          So true! I describe the 80's and 90's to people as a bout of binge drinking the industry went through. Now it's emerging from the back allies it passed out in (and got robbed in) squinting at the light of day and woundering what the heck happend.

          Kind Regards
      • thin clients are the future.

        That really depends on what you're doing with your machine. For the type of work I do (server-side Java stuff) and the way I do it (using an IDE rather than vi and ant) there's no way I'd get acceptable performance using a thin client connecting to a shared server.

        As in all things, there is no silver bullet, no one right way to do it. Thin clients have their place, but so do hulking great workstations.

        For what it's worth, I use a 3GHz Dell with a gig of RAM, and that's silen
        • I do the same kind of work as you and I actualy prefer using a thin client. Like I said in my post, the thin client is functioaly the same as having a complete desktop. Don't confuse thin clients with dumb terminals. I run the latest software I can get in a graphical desktop just as I would if I had a full blown desktop.

          As for the silent part, if you have not experienced a solid state computer system ( and I mean no computer spinny things like fans and HDs anywhere) than I doubt you have experienced tru

    • Re:A good idea but... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Daengbo ( 523424 ) <daengbo@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Saturday May 22, 2004 @08:58PM (#9227347) Homepage Journal
      No offense, but you don't know what you are talking about. Thin client system use is increasing, not decreasing. From your comments, you obviously don't really understand what the thin clients they are using do, so I'll explain it to you.
      1. The client broadcasts for IP and other info using PXE or Etherboot.
      2. The client downloads the net bootable Linux kernel.
      3. The kernel boots and mounts a read-only root FS over NFS.
      4. The client self-configures and starts XFree86 v. 4.3
      5. XFree86 connects to a second computer and the entire session is exported to the thin client.
      There is no apparent difference to the user. They don't even understand that they are working on the server at this point. With a Gig LAN card on the server and 100Mb on the clients, the session lag is unnoticable.
      BTW, this is a true thin client, unlike Winterms or the Linux equivalent. Exploit in the kernel? Just drop a new one on the server and update the name in DHCP (or make a symlink), and, presto, all the hundreds of clients have been upgraded with no downtime the next time the are cycled. There is no need to burn flash on hundreds of clients. Any application holes can be filled in the time it takes to patch the server, with no reboots required anywhere, and no tech to be onsite at all.

      In short, though you seem to think so, nothing in the user session is running locally and the user is not limited by any old hardware. The clients can be used for another fifteen years with no penalty is they don't fail. Upgrade the software, upgrade the server hardware (or cluster), and you've got faster, better user sessions for free.
      Check out for more info. [ltsp.org]
      • Thin clients are very interesting in some kind of settings (schools, libraries, even office workers), but I'm more interested in something different that we don't read much about: the Cluster Of Workstations (COW). It uses the processing power of a bunch of normal PCs to run a cluster while the users are going to their everyday tasks.

        This would be invaluable in scientific research for instance: every person in a lab has at least one PC. Put some clustering software on them. If one runs several big jobs, th

    • They are accustomed to a certain level of usability, both regarding speed and user interface.

      If that's true, then why the problem with using that 1995 sytem? Or are your using "accustomed" in a manner in which I am not aware?

      If people truly are accustomed to a certain level of speed and a certain specific interface, then why the heck isn't Windows 3.1 still the major consumer operating system? The history of the PC has been one of a constantly changing speed and style, not the opposite.

    • I want to agree with the other respondents in this thread and also offer an anecdote of my own.

      Our local Linux user group [gllug.org] was hosting an all-volunteer set of Linux classes for the community earlier this year. We had an Athlon 2400 (or close) server with a gig of RAM running K12 LTSP with 12 Pentium II-class thin clients. Now, K12 LTSP at the time ran Red Hat 9.0. The default RH9 desktop is not exactly light on resources for even *one* machine, but we had people on all 12 terminals doing things like web bro

  • How about Chairity (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dozix007 ( 690662 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @07:56PM (#9227104)
    I say to "shaft" companies like Dell\HP start community projects to refurbish old PCs is good working order. You could install a simple Linux distribution such as Mandrake on them. Then, give them out to underprivileged children. Just a thought, would be quite an undertaking.
    • I don't think so. I've found that distros are a lot slower than windows 95. I know everyone says to put linux on an old computer and it'll run like lightning, but it's bullshit. Just using the KDE menu on these machines is a chore. Maybe a slimer window manager would help things out, but mandrake out of the box would be slow as hell.
      • Linux would be a better choice because the Liscence is free. It would not be a very low cost, and wide reaching program if you payed 100$ for a Windows distro each time.
      • Um, hi, hello, bonjour... ground control to majordomo... I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept, but it's something called a command line. People these days are too spoiled on GUIs - if it won't run the pretty buttons and cute icons, it's not worth it, right? Bah. Donate your old machines to me. I'll put them to good use...

        • Re:How about Chairity (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Stevyn ( 691306 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @08:55PM (#9227337)
          Yeah the charity will love that.

          "Here's a computer. It doesn't have windows or anything that will serve your purposes. But it has a command line. Here, I'll show you how to use Lynx..."

          Ten minutes later the person at the charity makes a phone call...

          "Hey, Jonny, do you still have that windows 95 cd? Some guy wearing a penguin shirt just dropped off a computer that is completely useless to us."

          You can't just donate a computer without a GUI and expect people to use it. Even the simplest uses of a computer of browsing the web are nearly impossible. Lynx? Is this what you're recommending? This thread is talking about donating the pc to a charity, not for some beowulf cluster in your basement to compile gentoo on.

  • Charity is also an option (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 22, 2004 @07:59PM (#9227109)
    Hey.

    Don't forget about charity; I volunteer for an organization that cleans up old PCs and gives them to needy families with children in school, and there are hundreds of organizations out there that do similar things. We won't take trash, but an old Pentium is often a fine system for word processing and basic web mojo, which is what most needy recipients would be doing.
    • there is also a charity in oregon called Freegeek [freegeek.org]. its a non profit organization that recycles and reuses old pc's. and this is how they do it

      1. users donate old computers to the org

      2. then they sort the components and sort out the ones that are usefull and box them

      3. the old stuff goes to get recycled, the silicon, chips, metal, ect can all be recycled for a slight profit. the monitors go to hazardous waste facility.

      4. the usefull componets go to building, where they train people how to build the pc's

  • Remember these words (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jb.hl.com ( 782137 ) <joe@joeLION-baldwin.net minus cat> on Saturday May 22, 2004 @07:59PM (#9227111) Homepage Journal
    If a corporation says it's doing something altruistically (open sourcing shit (MS), recycling PCs to "save the environment") it always has other interests to serve.

    If that sounds cynical, I'm sorry. But it's true: corporations work for profit, and as far as I can see the only reason a corporation would want to recycle PCs is to get new ones out on the market. NO OTHER REASON.
    • If that sounds cynical, I'm sorry. But it's true: corporations work for profit, and as far as I can see the only reason a corporation would want to recycle PCs is to get new ones out on the market. NO OTHER REASON.

      "wrong."

      Every manager worth my salary (which is really setting the bar low) knows the axiom "it takes a lifetime to win a customer, a second to lose one." By doing things that are altruistic and aware of what their customers value, corporations can avoid protests and boycotts--and even "I'll go with your competitor, they anger me less."

      There is a certain dollar cost that we subconciously attribute to our values, and if a corportation offends our values, we'll look for an alternative whose cost of switching is less than the cost of our values.

      A great theoretical example of this is cars. Many imports sell for about $2,000 less than American cars--but the American cars still sell, because "buy American" has a value cost of more than $2,000 for a lot of people. (Not to mention a slew of other reasons that I'm purposefully glossing over.)

      • Every manager worth my salary (which is really setting the bar low) knows the axiom "it takes a lifetime to win a customer, a second to lose one." By doing things that are altruistic and aware of what their customers value, corporations can avoid protests and boycotts--and even "I'll go with your competitor, they anger me less."

        To quote the great I. Montoya: "I do not think that word means what you think it means." If you are doing something altruistic in a corporation, your job is in danger. What you are

        • What you are thinking of (customer loyalty, PR value, etc) is calculated, and has nothing to do with altruism.

          You're a classic half-empty-glass cynic.

          Enlightened self-interest is still "enlightened." By and large, companies that are "good corporate citizens" calculate on the macroeconomic level, and let their rank-and-file be geniunely altruistic.

          If it were not for the altruism of companies, the United Way would not exist--and my employer not only exists, they compete in a relatively lucrative field.
      1. If a corporation says it's doing something altruistically (open sourcing shit (MS), recycling PCs to "save the environment") it always has other interests to serve.

        If that sounds cynical, I'm sorry. But it's true: corporations work for profit, and as far as I can see the only reason a corporation would want to recycle PCs is to get new ones out on the market. NO OTHER REASON.

      It's simpler than that.

      Try this test: When you read an advertisement, consider the opposite of what it says or attempts to get

  • LTSP is good (Score:5, Informative)

    by OrangeHairMan ( 560161 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @08:00PM (#9227112)
    Recently, I set up a small Debian-based computer lab using LTSP at the school I attend. Currently, it only has the server and 5 thin clients, but it is astounding what can be done with this hardware:

    Server: 800 MHz Pentium III, 1 GB SDRAM, dual 20 GB hard drives.
    Thin Clients (all diskless and netbooting thanks to LTSP): 233 MHz Cyrix III with 64 MB RAM, 233 MHz Pentium II with 48 MB RAM, 333 MHz Celeron with 32 MB RAM, 300 MHz Pentium II with 64 MB RAM, 150 MHz Pentium MMX with 32 MB RAM (IIRC).

    This setup can have 6 people (one on the server plus the thin clients) running Gaim + Mozilla + OpenOffice with very little slowdown. Rarely is it noticeable. And it is very easy to manage; since there is only one computer with Debian and all the data and whatnot on it, only one box has to be updated, had new users added, etc.

    Total cost so far: $0, it is all just hardware out of my friend's basements and mine. The fact that no money has to be spent to get something like this to work (and work well) really shows that a new, shiny 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 is not needed just to check email and browse the web. The science department at this same school actually just recieved 24 new 3.2 GHz Dells, and the most that is ever done on them are Excel spreadsheets!

    Imagine the money that can be saved by using old but completely useful computers instead of upgrading every couple of years when it is unneeded... (and spending more money on licenses for new versions of Office and Windows and etc.)

    • Re:LTSP is good (Score:2, Interesting)

      by kunudo ( 773239 )
      Imagine the money that can be saved by using old but completely useful computers instead of upgrading every couple of years when it is unneeded... (and spending more money on licenses for new versions of Office and Windows and etc.)

      I would guess that most of your fellow slashdotters would agree with you. I would also guess that the marketing departments of Dell, HP and every other company that actively pushes their stuff to universities would insist that they need to continue riding the upgrade carousel.

    • Re:LTSP is good (Score:3, Interesting)

      by value_added ( 719364 )
      I'm thoroughly impressed. It would interesting to see a few photographs of such a setup in action.

      I'm wondering, though, didn't you have to install PXE capable NICs on all the clients? I picked up a lot of used Dell PIIIs on eBay some time ago for next to nothing and am still amazed not only by how capable each of them is, but also by how much time I spent using each of them. At the same time, though, they were the only systems I'd seen that had PXE capable NICs.

      Admittedly, buying "old" hardware isn't
    • Until I moved to Korea, my lab in Thailand was four p133 Dell clients and a Via 600MHz C3 for a server. I beat you on age of hardware, dood! Where's my prize?
      Seriously, though, I have been involved with the LTSP project for ove four years now, and it grows more amazing all the time.

  • So recycling is bad? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by agrippa_cash ( 590103 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @08:01PM (#9227115) Homepage
    Of course they want you to upgrade, the question is what becomes of the old computers. My understanding is that the vast majority of computers donated are nearly worthless to schools because they cannot run any modern programs. These computers are only good as thin clients and most non-profits don't have a thin client setup. If his proposed arrangement takes off, NPO's could specifically say:Give us your old hardware. Until then, I'm glad OEM's are disposing of the systems properly (assuming they aren't just shipping them off to China or something).

  • but think of the numbers (Score:2, Interesting)

    by natbro ( 697124 ) *
    i reuse old pc's like crazy, too, for myself and for nonprofits i work with. but think of the number of damn new machines you're talking about -- recent pc industry growth reports suggested that ~100M of the new PCs shipping this year will be replacing old ones! it's just like recycling other materials: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. The first word is Reduce for a reason -- it's the most important step, and the hardest to motivate people about.

  • LTSP? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gumpish ( 682245 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @08:07PM (#9227136) Journal
    From the LTSP site:

    LTSP is an add-on package for Linux that allows you to connect lots of low-powered thin client terminals to a Linux server. Applications typically run on the server, and accept input and display their output on the thin client display.

    Uhm... that sounds kind of like X-Windows...

  • This is old (Score:3, Informative)

    by Roland Piquepaille ( 780675 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @08:07PM (#9227138)
    I've known at least 10 people who have started businesses around the idea of giving old PCs a new life. One of them, Roger Gross, started Icentrix ltd. (now defunct), that used to make "MarioNet [sir-george-young.org.uk]" appliances (essentially old PC serving as X servers and web browsers, talking to a centralized box).

    Most of these guys' companies either don't fare too well, or are kaput, because the idea is, well, obvious...
  • This is nothing new, IBM did this 100 years ago with type writters and POS machines. They bought out 2nd hand shops covertly, then priced stuff super cheap to kill competitors, but destroyed their own equipment. Then they shut the stores down and then using that customer list of 2nd hand buyers, go out and use their sales force teams to sell new machines.

    A great scam.

    But one that MS cant do, they cant just 'get rid of' old OS's, or can they? using viruss hmmmmm maybe they have covert coding teams making o
    • MS doesn't have to scam the customer directly. They just scam OEMS into forcing them to release windows on all their new machines and then the OEMs run their own scams to keep selling new machines and they both make their money. And if a OEM tries to offer other OSes MS can just pull out and basically kill that OEM.
    • Thats exactly what happens with microsoft. They release a patch for a potential sercurity problem, a smal percentage of users apply it, then virus writers read the security buliten that microsoft releases along with the patch and creates a virus that exploits the majority of the computers that haven't been patched. I've always know that it works that way, but I never realised that it can be used as a sales tactic. Ingenious.

  • This is news? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by darnok ( 650458 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @08:21PM (#9227187)
    > the recycling programs of Dell and HP are nothing
    > more than a means of getting older systems out of
    > use, to be replaced by newer systems

    Exactly what did he expect these recycling programs are for? Of course they're primarily a means to sell new systems!

    If a company has a bunch of HP/Dell PCs that are about to reach their end-of-life, they can either arrange the disposal themselves or give them back to the vendor to dispose of. Many companies will offer the PCs to their employees for a very low cost, and some of these employees will take them, put Linux on them and give them to charity. Maybe the company has someone on staff that acts as a focal point for charitable distribution of these PCs (as well as new stuff); if so, that person may take on the role of coordinating that sort of work.

    ***If this is "all too hard" for the company, and they just want to get rid of the old PCs without being accused of screwing up the environment by dumping them somewhere***, they're free to give them back to Dell/HP who'll dispose of them. Some companies see this as a useful thing; they've got a problem (disposal of a bunch of PCs without screwing the environment) and Dell/PC will take care of the problem for them. That's called a "competitive advantage".

    Here's news: there's no fleet of people at Dell/HP who call up every charity in the world trying to dispose of old PCs 24x7! There may be a few people who take the role on themselves, but there's no way a few people can dispose of thousands of old PCs on an ongoing basis in their spare time.

    It's *not* trivial to donate these PCs; among other things, either they have to arrange for MS to transfer the OS licence to some unknown recipient (unlikely), or they have to arrange a workforce to format discs, install e.g. Linux on them and then train whoever it is these PCs are going to be given to. Strangely, neither Dell or HP feel it is their role to act as unpaid Linux trainers for the world's underprivileged! Finally, if a charity receives a free PC from Dell/HP, there's at least an implied support arrangement there - when that old clunker of a PC breaks down, who's gonna get called?

    If Slashdot or any other organization wants to form a group of people who will take these PCs, reformat them, install Linux, donate them to the world's charities and provide support afterwards, I'm sure Dell and HP would be very happy to hear about it. After all, that group would then be solving a problem Dell and HP have - how to dispose of the PCs. Do that; the world will benefit from it and probably vendors other than Dell and HP will want to jump on board too. If not, then find something real to complain about.
    • At ITShare SA [itshare.org.au] take donated hardware, install Linux, and donate to low income groups and individuals....We have sister organisations all over Australia tooo, doing the same. We would LOVE to get donations from Dell & HP of all these stockpiled computers - we are always desperate for hardware. No licencing issues! Ongoing supports for recipients! Win Win!!!
      • Have you contacted Dell and HP directly and offered to take the PCs off their hands for nothing?

        If not, or you don't know who to contact, respond and I'll see if I can put you in touch with someone at HP Melbourne. It's many years since I worked there, but I can probably still track down someone for you to talk to. If it comes off, I think it's probably likely they'll give you some exposure too; they'll be keen to announce that they're partnering with you to help the community.
    • install e.g. Linux on them and then train whoever it is these PCs are going to be given to.

      Why is it that the training costs always come up when Linux is mentioned, but never with Windows. You didn't mention the training costs for Windows. Do you think it doesn't exist?

      These are charities. They're not using WinXP. They're using whatever's on their current system. That might be Windows 3.1, MSDOS, OS9, AppleDOS, etc.
      • You miss my point - they can't use Windows of any nature because the licences aren't transferrable. A charity is not gonna leave Windows on recycled PCs because there's a history of MS cracking down on recycled licences. To recycle these PCs and give them to anybody, people have to install a free OS of some type - it could be Linux, FreeBSD, FreeDOS, whatever. I think Linux is the obvious choice here, but it is one of several candidates.

        Whichever one it is, the people receiving these PCs will need tra

    • Re:This is news? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by 1hurcoman ( 778742 )
      Where I work we are currently replacing purchased hardware with new "leased" equipment. We wipe the drives on the old, sometimes really old, computers and "donate" them to the schools. These computers are below our specs... sub 700 Mhz. Sometimes just barely. Just fine for the ol e-mail, surfing setup. How come I saw our systems on EBay for sale just a week after "donating" them. I guess the schools didn't want them. Of course, this is great recycling. The company does not have to worry about the E.P.A. if

      • That sounds like a win for everyone concerned. The schools may not find a good use for them as they are, but I'll bet that the $70 each will be helpful and keep them in use somewhere. At that price, they'll still likely help someone who otherwise couldn't afford it.

    • It IS trivial to donate the hardware. Wipe the HD and donate it as is. Surely, in the face of 1000 donated PCs w/o OS, a charity can find someone (perhaps a local LUG) to load Linux on them.

      In addition , there are likely schools that have man hours available (possibly student hours) but are strapped for cash to buy hardware. They'd likely be willing to give Linux a shot as well. It would even qualify as vocational training for the students.

      It's not hard to find many ways bare PC hardware can be reused s

  • Writing from an LTSP 133 Mhz 32 RAM terminal that acts like a P4!

    You can visit the irc channel [mailto] to talk about it :)

    I translated the latest install doc to
    spanish [ltsp.org] and I love LTSPing :)
  • .... putting a lightweight efficient multitasking OS on it like Amiga Research Operating System [aros.org]

  • We've been doing this since March (Score:4, Interesting)

    by slasher999 ( 513533 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @08:46PM (#9227289)
    I'm not going to go posting a link here and bring the Slashdot effect down on my own company, but we started a buyback program in March (long before we knew about Dell and HP's plans - maybe they stole them from us!) for exactly this reason - get the old stuff away from the users and replace it with newer hardware. For us, the aging Pentium and Pentium 2 systems, most of which are still running Windows 95 or 98, are a support nightmare. The systems are not under warranty any longer, components are no longer available through distribution, and we don't have time to be searching ebay looking for a used 266MHz CPU. Besides, our customers tend to look at us funny when the bill ends up showing 4-5 hours of labor because of the cost involved in finding and obtaining old components. It's just not worth being in that market when a quality business class machine runs just under $1000 US.

    As for thin client, it's a solution some of our customers like. However, it doesn't resolve the old hardware issue. Instead, it actually adds to the problem be extending the life of systems that were never designed to last more than 3-5 years. In the past week we have had a customer complain that their last 200MHz machine just died, another client complained that their last machine with ISA slots died and now they can't use their first gen ATI AIW ISA card, and we had a call from a client that couldn't figure out how to get their new (USB only) printer working with their 6 or 7 year old desktop (with no USB).

    Supporting this old stuff for the SMB (small/mid-sized business) clients is a nightmare. We spend a lot of time convincing customers to "recycle" about 1/3 of their PC hardware per year so that all of their hardware is covered under warranty and so we can support the most recent Windows operating systems and applications throughout their organizations. Having part of the office on Windows XP, part on Windows NT 4, and part on Windows 95, and half under warranty and half not covered under warranty just increases support and management costs.

    • We spend a lot of time convincing customers to "recycle" about 1/3 of their PC hardware per year so that all of their hardware is covered under warranty

      With thin client systems, just have an extra around as a spare. They are so cheap, much cheaper than trying to fix.

      Having part of the office on Windows XP, part on Windows NT 4, and part on Windows 95, and half under warranty and half not covered under warranty just increases support and management costs.

      With thin client everyonbe runs the same softw

      • With thin client everyonbe runs the same software becuse ... uh, everyone is running the *same* software.

        Not necessarily. In a lot of these "thin client" scenarios the customers are actually running old desktop hardware and using the MS Terminal Server Client or the newer RDP client. These machines have an operating system that needs to be maintained - patches, updates, etc. Most users don't use apps like IE through their Terminal Server, some tend to use Outlook installed locally on these "thin" clients

    • Where I work (a mid-sized/large company), there is an abundance of old Pentium 133/166 machines that were in use up until March. There are hundreds of them, but only 3 or 4 different models. While the older systems are a support nightmare for you, it's the newer systems that cause us more difficulty.

      I can ghost an old pentium machine in 10/15 minutes and have the user up and running again. If we get a new Pentium 4 machine though, Windows 2000 or XP has to be installed manually on it, drivers updated, win
      • If we get a new Pentium 4 machine though, Windows 2000 or XP has to be installed manually on it, drivers updated, windows updated, and software installed. This can take HOURS to do.

        Why? So long as you are receiving in the same model machines, build one and Ghost it. Either use the MS "sysprep" tool to regen the sid on the next boot or use another tool to do the same. XP machines can be pushed out in the same 10 mins.


        Believe it or not, I have had more of the newer DELL machines fail due to bad hard dri

  • My Old System (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Is currently being used as a closet-based mailserver. Just about any box can handle an MTA and SpamAssassin.
    At the Property Disposition here in Ann Arbor, they've got hundreds of half-decent computers for $100-$250 each.
  • new life is nice and all, until this [64.233.167.104] starts to happen.
    • Nice link.

      My question is "is it a hardware fault, or engineering fault?"

      The reason I ask is electrolitic capacitors for the most part are a low frequency device. They charge and discharge to smothe out DC voltage. Because they are a wet electrolyte design, they have some internal series resistance. When used in a switch mode power supply, the series resistance can see a lot of high frequency current if it is not externaly shunted. This high current can cause the component to overheat and fail.

      This is

  • Older boxes can still run Win2000 Pro. (Score:3, Informative)

    by MtViewGuy ( 197597 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @10:35PM (#9227704)
    I think many people think that many older machines can't run newer Windows versions.

    Actually, you can still run Windows 2000 Professional, given that the minimum requirement to run W2K Pro is a Pentium 133 MHz CPU. Given that there are a lot of machines out there with the ATX form factor that use the Intel 440LX and 440BX chipsets with at least a Pentium II 233 MHz CPU, you can set up for them to run W2K Pro with at least 256 MB of RAM installed (most of the 440LX/440BX chipset mobos can support three 168-in DIMM's for at least 384 MB of RAM) and a 16 to 20 GB hard drive.

    I myself run W2K Pro on an Abit AB-BM6 440BX chipset motherboard with a Celeron "A" 500 MHz CPU; W2K Pro runs pretty decently fast, notably bacause I have 384 MB of system RAM installed.

    In my humble opinion, if your computing needs are primarily business apps and accessing the Internet, you really don't need the fastest machine out there. It's only when you have to play the latest games or run programs to edit digital still pictures or videos downloaded from a MiniDV/MicroDV digital camcorder that you really do need a machine with a faster CPU.
    • Got you beat: W2K on a 466MHz Celery on an i810 board. 256MB RAM. PCI Rage128 32MB video card with the onboard "vampire video" turned off. W2K is very happy on it. I've used it as a local Unreal Tournament (1999) server, and it ran splendidly for that purpose. I also have W2K running on a 400MHz PIIm ThinkPad 600E (dual boot with Knoppix HD-install) with 288MB RAM and it's happy there too.

      I've run W2K successfully on a K6-2 300 (as a server!) and even a 233MHz Pentium (I) with 128MB RAM. Of course the latt

  • When to upgrade? (Score:3, Informative)

    by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @10:36PM (#9227705)
    When to upgrade is the big question, and sometimes doesn't have the obvious answer, machines with suprisingly low specs can sometimes do all you need.

    The computer of my boss (the head of a small company that isn't afraid to spend money on computers) is a 600MHz Pentium III that came with NT4. It now dual boots into linux and has more memory (cheap), a good video card (v. cheap), more disk space - and now in most cases it appears to give an instant reponse to what is asked for it. About the only things that make the machine show its age is Open Office - which is even slower to start than win4lin plus a fairly old MSOffice, but once it has started going it works well. It's not about being a cheapskate, the machine does what it needs to do, and I put four new dual 2.8GHz Xeon servers in that office yesterday, which are doing some of the real work while the desktop machine is working as an Xterm displaying what thirteen other machines can do to some data over a weekend.

    Not enough years back the only hardware I had to use was a pentium 90 with a pitiful amount of memory and a crap video card, but it was surpisingly effective with linux, Xfree86 and a lean enlightenment theme on it, so long as I ran the actual applications (from netscape up) on an SGI machine in the next building. The major failing of that machine was a lack of OpenGL support - a new video card would have fixed that easily and the machine could be used even today, so long as you only have a budget of just above zero. If there's something nice on the network, and things are set up properly, you can get away with all kinds of old hardware.

    To sum up, even if you are not worried about spending the cash, you don't always need an incredible 3D games machine on your desk at work - and your machine that is getting a few years old may not slow you down at all.

  • They can have my dead monitors and printers,
    there's no way to fix or reuse these.

    Although I do rip out the motors from the printers for robot projects.

    They also get all my old AT boat-anchor systems.
    If it doesnt have PCI,it's not worth fooling with.
  • Is it just me, or does this not appear to just be a similar ploy, perhaps one even not more transparent? Even if they do provide solutions based on LTSP, their business is selling commercial software and providing service and support. Recyling old PCs is just a trick to get people to buy new PCs? Well, duh! And a car could easily last 20 years, get 75 MPG and require almost new service over those years, but that is not what capitalism demands.

    Similarily, these whiners are also just drumming up their own
    • You have that backwards. Desktops haven't gotten to the point where they're anywhere near thin client (what we used to call "terminals") in TCO. When we went from using X terminals to using desktop computers the cost went through the roof: we needed more support people and more people spent more time dealing with problems on their Windows boxes.

      The only reason we switched was that we watched the applications and solutions we had been using getting crowded out by ones that required Windows, and the remote W
  • does he suddenly appear screaming "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN " ?

    got. to. love. the...overacting.
  • the whole deal with Y2k was a move by major oem's and software companies like Microsoft to use the deep-seeded ancient fear of the new millenium to scare people into dumping their 486's, 386's, 286's, etc for nice brand new systems that costed even more than the usual price because they were y2k compliant with the latest windows, etc..

    simply a move to get people to buy new stuff so people get a big profit.

    my neighbor down the street gave me an old 386, and they said "watch out though, it's not y2k complia
  • There are three R's in earth friendly stweardship.

    They are:
    Reduce - don't use what you don't need.
    Reuse - If at all possible, reuse.
    Recycle - Recycle what you can't reuse.

    All three have their place. Reduction of use has the greatest impact followed by reuse, and finally recycle which is in essence the last alternitive but is still better than throw away.

    Something like the terminal project is better than recycling by an entire order of magnitude. Having said that however, sometim

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