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Robotics United States

CMU's Snooping Robot Headed for Iraq 299

Posted by CowboyNeal from the listening-devices-on-wheels dept.
mike_the_kid writes "Here's an interesting article about a robot near the end of development at CMU. It's a four-wheeler called the Dragon Runner. This robot has no 'right side up,' so no matter which way it lands, its ready to go. The user (currently projected to be a US Marine) throws the robot over a fence or up a flight of stairs. The robot has cameras that send live video back to the operator, and directional microphones that can relay as well. A cool feature is that it can tell the operator where there is movement (via audio or tactile feedback)." We first mentioned the Dragon Runner a while back, but the previous article was more about the Dragon Eye, a small remote-controlled airplane.
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CMU's Snooping Robot Headed for Iraq More

CMU's Snooping Robot Headed for Iraq

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  • I'm sure it can find the WMD's (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Right? RIGHT???

    • Right Side Up! (Score:5, Funny)

      by yintercept ( 517362 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @03:20PM (#9225929) Homepage Journal
      This robot has no 'right side up,' so no matter which way it lands, its ready to go.

      Personally, I don't know if sending more things that don't know "right side up" to Iraq is a good decision at this point.

  • June 30, eh? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by grub ( 11606 )

    If they're sending these things to Iraq so late in May does anyone really believe that Iraq will be handed back to the Iraqis on June 30?
    • It's a prototype, they most likeley want to try it out and see if it's worth the money.
      For now, at $46,000 a copy for the prototypes, no one is eager to blow any Dragon Runners apart.

      • Re:June 30, eh? (Score:2, Informative)

        by in7ane ( 678796 )
        "at $46,000"

        I for one would like to know just how much benefit the extra $45,845.02 gets you after being able to get something similar with this ($39.99) [thinkgeek.com] and this ($114.99) [thinkgeek.com] and maybe some duct tape or super glue.

        I understand that an infrared camera and a microphone will add a few extra hundred, but the thing, once again, will be defeated by stairs, and the extra bit of ruggedness can be overcome by getting a few dozen of the cheaper off the shelf things instead.

        Not to make light of somebody's
        • I for one would like to know just how much benefit the extra $45,845.02 gets you after being able to get something similar with this ($39.99) and this ($114.99) and maybe some duct tape or super glue.

          How about (these are all in the article):

          - 20 mph

          - the ability to drop it from a 3-story building without damage

          - the ability to throw it from a vehicle travelling 45mph without damage

          - a directional microphone and sensors that can detect motion up to 30 feet away

          - unified hand-held controlle
          • The thinkgeek toy probably goes marginally slower (although I've seen some very fast R/C cars, so don't be too sure that it can't do 20mph) and is less rugged. Although if you are placing a really big order you can go tot he manufacturer and ask them to make the exact same thing out of a stronger plastic - add a few hundred per unit at most.

            I mentioned the microphone and the sensors, those can easily be bought, and would not cost more than a thousand or so (your home security system has them).

            "unifie
            • The thinkgeek toy probably goes marginally slower (although I've seen some very fast R/C cars, so don't be too sure that it can't do 20mph) and is less rugged. Although if you are placing a really big order you can go tot he manufacturer and ask them to make the exact same thing out of a stronger plastic - add a few hundred per unit at most. I mentioned the microphone and the sensors, those can easily be bought, and would not cost more than a thousand or so (your home security system has them). "unified h
        • "I for one would like to know just how much benefit the extra $45,845.02 gets you after being able to get something similar with this ($39.99) and this ($114.99) and maybe some duct tape or super glue."

          You're assumuming its primary mission is to drive around houses taking photos.

          Perhaps it's primary mission is transferring lots of $40K checks from the taxpayer to someone's company?

    • Re:June 30, eh? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Saturday May 22, 2004 @01:55PM (#9225544)
      Just like the infamous "Mission Accomplished" speech, June 30th is just another mile marker that'll cause people to think that the war is over, when really it won't be.

      June 30 is not the day that US troops will walk out leaving the country alone, it's just the day that Paul Bremer gives his authority to Iraqis that the USA will hand pick and announce shortly.

      Iraq still doesn't have a stable military or police force that's capable of stamping down warlords who declare themselves mayor of a town, and until that is established, there's no way legit government would be able to survive the challenges from such insurgents.

      So, at least the frist attempt at forming a stable Iraqi government will happen on June 30th... but that still is a long way from America being out of there.
      • Look at how long Russia occupied Afghanistan. As soon as the russian left, the warlord took over. The same will happen in Irak, or MORE LIKELY, some fanatic religious governement will take over, OR, the old guard will come back, as soon as the USA forces leave. If you think otherwise, well , history teach us otherwise.

        As soon as the cat is away, the mouse dances...

      • A clarification. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by killjoe ( 766577 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @05:34PM (#9226534)
        It seems like you were duped by this administration too.

        The iraqis will have "limited sovereignty". Basically that means that they will have no say over over the US military and the laws of iraq will not apply to the US military. It will also mean that they will not be able to control their oil fields any way they want (i.e they will not be able to privatise them). Finally they will under no circumstances be allowed to join OPEC.

        In actuality they will not be able to make any decision with wich the US would disagree. Of course nobody is suggesting that a set of hand picked puppets is going to look out for the interest of iraqis over the interest of americans but they could'nt even if they wanted to.
        • If I may add to your post.

          US forces will NOT be bound by the Iraqi legal process. The US forces will NOT be required to get a search warrant before searching anyone or busting into any building/home.

          Iraqi nationals "captured" by US forces will NOT be allowed one phone call to their attourney.

          If an Iraqi national is killed by US forces, there will NOT be an investigation (unless pictures get leaked to the US media).

          So, the US forces can go anywhere, anytime to arrest or kill anyone without any Iraqi cour
      • "Mission Accomplished" was for the troops who were riding home on the carrier Bush was on when he said it. For them, their mission was accomplished.
    • If they're sending these things to Iraq so late in May does anyone really believe that Iraq will be handed back to the Iraqis on June 30?

      This is just a mopping up operation of some holdout insurgents. We should have them cleaned up by June 29th for the handover the next day. Nothing to worry about here folks.

      PS: Please send 100,000 more marines with this shipment of robots.

      • One could argue that sending toys late in May is simply a matter of wanting to get the toys on the field before the end of the game. In other words, it is impossible to conclude anything from people playing with toys other than boys love toys.
  • Comes with a hooding device for remote hooding.

    *torture electrodes are an optional extra

  • Minority Report (Score:5, Funny)

    by ninejaguar ( 517729 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @01:45PM (#9225491)
    In a few years, it'll have spider legs, climb on your face, and poke you in the eye.

    = 9J =

  • like a blackbox... (Score:5, Funny)

    by slashrogue ( 775436 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @01:45PM (#9225492)
    "We've thrown it out of second- and third-story windows," said Capt. Dave Moreau, project officer for Dragon Runner at the Marine Corps Warfighting Laboratory in Quantico, Va. "We've thrown it off the back of a moving vehicle at 45 miles an hour."

    If they can make the robot out of this stuff, why not make the whole Marine out of it?

  • Definetly an improvement (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dozix007 ( 690662 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @01:46PM (#9225496)
    The Dragon Runner is a definete improvement to the impractical (at least in it's current state) Dragon Eye. It will be much easier for a person to operate a small vehicle that is a bit more "stealthy" that a small plane. With the Dragon Eye, there were far too many variables for any combat troop to use with any real practicality.

  • This is definitely a neat little gizmo, that will help gather information that would otherwise be hard to collect.

    If the Iraqi hostiles capture one of them, though, I would be willing to lay down cash that they will sell it to a US-hostile entity - I would guess Al Qaeda or possibly Red China.

    Hope it's rigged to destroy itself via remote control...

    • This is definitely a neat little gizmo, that will help gather information that would otherwise be hard to collect.

      You are absolutely correct, after all, surveillance satellites have a very difficult time seeing over fences.

      Just another stupid toy that helps kill people, it'll probably make some defense contractor rich. Isn't that what this war is about.

      As far as your "Red China" notion goes (it's spelt "China" by the way) all you have done is made yourself sound like a racist. They (the Chinese) make

      • I think you mean:

        drink /dev/toilet

      • You are absolutely correct, after all, surveillance satellites have a very difficult time seeing over fences.

        Two problems with this:

        1. As marvelous as satellites are, they cannot really see into buildings, or anything with a roof.

        2. Soldiers on the ground won't have direct access to military spy satellites. There isn't nearly enough of them to be able to respond to every query by a lowly marine. You might as well say; "Why do we need soldiers? We have nukes!".

        As far as your "Red China" notion goes (it
    • Assuming they just capture the robot and not the operator, what would they do with it without the remote control with integrated video display and force-feedback to indicate the direction of detected motion (which I assume includes some kind of encryption)?

      I guess they could hack it, or hope that BestBuy has a compatible universal remote :)

  • One problem... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @01:51PM (#9225525) Homepage

    So far the US approach has been to bomb the crap out of building with helicopters and planes from miles away, and then go an look at the bodies.

    If the marines are never close enough to people when they are alive to identify that it is a wedding party not a group of fighters then this is hardly going to help. Unless of course it can be deployed from 20 miles away.

    • Wedding? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by James Lewis ( 641198 )
      I don't think it is conclusive at all that a wedding party was hit. Although I wouldn't think it impossible that the US military would try to cover something like that up, I think it very likely that the insurgents are getting better at propaganda, and this is exactly the kind of thing they want circulating in US news. Anyone who has studied Vietnam will realize that there was a strong possibility that North Vietnam would have sought a truce had the US been united in its support of the war. I think it is be
      • It's pretty easy to use propaganda against us when we went into the war unjustly in the first place.

        We are occupiers of millions of people. We have ahndpicked their govt and will hand over the reigns to our puppets who will have "limited sovereignty" which means we still control their military and oil.

        There are now pictures of tortured prisoners and dozens of prisoners that died under our control.

        There are now mass graves outside of falujia where hundreds of iraqis are buried.

        To this day nobody can make
        • Oil. "A sea of oil".
        • To this day nobody can make a positive argument as to why we went there, why this was the only solution, or why we had to do it now.

          Sure they can. What you mean is that you don't accept those arguments.

          What nobody has bothered to explain is why the iraqis deserved to be freed more then the palestenians, chechnians, taiwanese, chinese, tibetians, east timorese, north koreans or any other long suffering opressed people of the world.

          You have to start somewhere. If we'd attacked North Korea, people would be

          • "Sure they can. What you mean is that you don't accept those arguments."

            The arguments don't make any sense. How can any rational person accept that. Is it allowable to say "cos god told me to"?

            "You have to start somewhere. "

            You do? Why? If you start someplace then where is your plan? Who is next? Where does it end? Why hasn't the president made this argument? Why hasn't he said that the US will take out every opressive govt in the world and occupy their land and replace them with handpicked puppets. If
  • against that cranky old next door neighbor
  • Shouldn't be too long now until we have spiders like in Minority Report.

    Toss 'em in the building and let them tell you whats in every room.
  • If only the Dragon Runner were being sent to an island [imdb.com].
  • That is all fine, but this [musicit.net] is the robot they should be sending to Iraq =)

  • This Will Save Lives (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Pave Low ( 566880 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @02:07PM (#9225603) Journal
    This not only to help protect the lives of US and coalition forces, this robot has the potential to save the lives of innocent civilians.

    A big problem with entering buildings, and around corners is that nobody knows whats behind it. If a coalition soldier sees that there are no insurgent force, or confirm that there is one, then it will greatly enhance their fighting capabilities and situational awareness.

    This is exactly why continuing research of defense technologies is needed. It's not to better kill, it's to better save lives.

    • They both wear the same clothes.

      They both speak the same language.

      Look at the Palestinians. Women and children become suicide bombers.

      The ONLY way to tell an insurgent from a civilian is whether s/he is attacking you or not. This robot will not do anything in that case.

    • Re:This Will Save Lives (Score:2, Interesting)

      by rtv ( 567862 )

      Nonsense. Weapons like this only make it more likely for people to be injured and killed. This kind of 'assymetric warfare' tool (i.e. we have 'em, the other guys don't) just makes it more likely that we will start and continue wars.

      Robots are particularly nasty weapons, because it reduces the risk of injury to one side so much. A commander is more likely to attack a building and kill everyone inside if she is less likely to have any nasty injuries on her team. Can you tell the difference between an Iraqi


    • What happens if the robots go on strike [noonelikesyou.net]?
  • While the Marines are all there staring at their TV sets, the bad guys will sneak out the back door, walk around the house and blow the crap out of the distracted Marines.

    Go the glass knife every time.
    • Not only is this comment dumb as certainly there will be someone watching the back, and this is about improving surveillance and not reducing it, but it is also lame because uncle enzo had the straight razor ("I prefer steel, myself") and it was raven with the glass knives, destroyed by the RadiKS narrow cone shock projector.

  • Nicer bot (Score:2, Interesting)

    by KjetilK ( 186133 )
    What happened to the Afghan eXplorer [mit.edu], a vehicle designed to work as in independent war reporter in insecure zones?
    • I love robots, but sheesh - that is the cheeziest thing in the world. That little talking head on top is just the icing on the cake.

      You can bet the thing would be parted out in about 30 minutes of being out in "the field". That or if embedded with troops, it would get dumped the first time some grad student was talking in the mic saying, "WAIT WAIT! JUST REBOOT IT! I BET WE CAN FIX THIS! WAAAAIIITTT!!!! MY THEEESSSIIIISSSS!!!!!"

    • Re:Nicer bot (Score:3, Insightful)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 )
      Looks like something that I'd want to sneak up on from behind and cannibalize. A little LCD screen and a nice big solar panel? I'm so there. Bet it's got some nice batteries also.

  • But... (Score:3, Funny)

    by 88NoSoup4U88 ( 721233 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @02:16PM (#9225645)
    Can it fetch me a beer from the fridge ? Ifso, where can i order them ?!

  • way cool; next step, robowars (Score:5, Interesting)

    by randyest ( 589159 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @02:25PM (#9225685) Homepage
    This thing is amazing: Dragon Runner today is a 9-pound electric vehicle about 15 inches long, a little less than a foot wide and just five inches in height. Moreau said Dragon Runner can operate in three modes:

    Drive mode. The machine has a top speed of 20 mph and also can be operated slowly and deliberately. The video camera transmits color imagery to the operator, who controls it using a hand-held controller/view screen.

    Sentry mode. It can operate as a stationary listening post, with a directional microphone and sensors that can detect motion up to 30 feet away. If it detects something, it can alert the operator by vibrating the hand control or sending a verbal "motion left" or "motion right" alert through an earphone.

    Watch mode. Again, the vehicle would remain motionless, but would use its cameras to relay information.

    You can also strap a bomb or weapon to it. This thing would definitely win the top spot in BattleBots [tvtome.com].

    Which makes me wonder how long until the only "combatants" that have to be sent into a war zone are the guys who throw these robots all over the place (or drop them from planes?) then hide in a secure place and view/control/eradicate problem. No casualties (on the side with the bots, that is), and no PR problems from increases in breadth and pervasiveness of combat coverage by the media.

    Unless the media gets ahold of the video stream somehow. Better encrypt that well :)
    • Which makes me wonder how long until the only "combatants" that have to be sent into a war zone are the guys who throw these robots all over the place (or drop them from planes?)
      then hide in a secure place and view/control/eradicate problem. No casualties (on the side with the bots, that is), and no PR problems from increases in breadth and pervasiveness of combat coverage by the media.

      Safe place? Didn't you mean primary target of the other side's robots?

    • I wish desperately that I remembered the name of the author and the story, but a few years back a guy wrote a science fiction short story on basically exactly that. It was set ~25-50 years into the future, facing a renewed Russian threat. The government drafted a few hundred or thousand reservists and subjected them to a computer simulation of a Russian invasion of the East Coast. Urban combat was carried out by remote-controlled tanks, planes, artillery, and foot soldiers. The controllers hid inside ne
    • It's the wave of the future. We will very soon be able to kill as many people as we want without risking anything. Since the military has proven itself very adept at controlling the media too Americans will soon be able to turn on the TV and watch a nice reality show without all the blood, gore and suffering. Just pictures of tunbling statutes and happy smiling occupied people.

      The thing I find facinating is how we as a country have refined what bravery and sacrifice is. It used to be (and still is in most

  • NREC Employee (Score:3, Interesting)

    by simdude585 ( 782096 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @02:29PM (#9225712) Homepage
    Hey Guys, i work in the educational department for the NREC (www.rec.ri.cmu.edu/education) and i've seen this running around and its pretty cool, it gets controlled by a gameboy looking device with like a 4 inch screen in the middle. They're really quiet too, you can never hear them running around. Very cool to see this up on slashdot and also the fact that its going over to support our troops is even cooler.
  • If Dragon Runner performs well, the Pentagon conceivably would be interested in buying hundreds of the robots. ...he thinks applications in civilian law enforcement and firefighting might eventually outnumber those in the military.

    Minority report anybody? I have the mental image of hundreds of these things crawling around my apartment building looking for criminals and interrupting ppl in the midst of.... ah.... personal business.... Oh god, what have they done..... :-P
  • An episode of Future Fighting Machines on TechTV has video of this and other small robots. They called this one PackBot.

    That particular episode is on tonight, May 22nd at 8PM EST.

    The episode description is at http://www.techtv.com/futurefightingmachines/stor y /0,24330,3426117,00.html

    PackBot The Tactical Mobile Robot nicknamed PackBot is a little aluminum robot warrior that scouts enemies for you. It can be dropped onto concrete from a height of over 9 feet and is waterproof to a depth of nearly 1

  • Neat little robot that's similar (COTS built) (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Pvt_Waldo ( 459439 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @02:44PM (#9225781)
    Check out this article [robots.net]


    Here's the original post from robots.net [robots.net]...


    A recent National Science Foundation press release [nsf.gov] includes photos and video clips of the latest Scout emergency response robots. Scout [umn.edu] is a small (100mm x 35mm) two wheeled, tube-shaped robot containing a video camera, IR range sensors, light sensors, pyroelectric sensors, and two-way radio links that support frequency hopping and encryption. MegaScout [umn.edu] is a larger version that will eventually carry manipulator arms, grappling hooks, and may act as a mothership for the smaller scouts. The robots are designed to survive a six story fall or being thrown up to 100 feet into a disaster area. The Scouts are built entirely from off-the-shelf parts. The robots are being deveoped by Nikos Papanikolopoulos [umn.edu]
    and other researchers from the University of Minnesota Distributed Robotics Lab [umn.edu], the University of Pennsylvania GRASP Lab [upenn.edu], and the Caltech Robotics Group [caltech.edu]. More video of the robots performing amazing feats [umn.edu] is available on the UMN website.



  • If it's small and light enough for a Marine to throw one over a wall, then what's stopping someone from throwing it back?

  • $46,000??? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Gldm ( 600518 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @03:03PM (#9225859)
    How about one of these [walmart.com] for $20 and an x10 cam strapped to the front? I'll sell em to the marines for 1/10th what CMU wants for theirs.
  • Nothing like a couple of years playing Medal of Honor: Allied Assault [eagames.com] to make you hate cheaters.
  • I think these things should be programmed to wander around cities/suburban areas and check an encountered persons biometric ID cards (coming soon?). Of course everyone but the "terrorists" would have these cards so catching them in action should be trivial. Perhaps have it explode on request or upon finding a "target". Armies of these things could re-enforce each other.
    • This is the most extremely stupid comment I have read so far on this story.
      Do you really want those things running amok where you live? Have you ever used a computer? This is the same as the ed209 robot in Robotcop that kill the executive because it doesn't get he's not armed.
      What you are talking would lead exactly to The Second Variety, a short story by Philip K. Dick the same writer the original short story of Minority Report on which the movie is based. You better read it before dooming all.

  • $46,000!?! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by NitsujTPU ( 19263 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @05:08PM (#9226417)
    Wow, that robot costs $46,000... but when they cost $23,000, they'll be more willing to blow it up.

    I love DoD projects.

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