The Logic Behind Metric Paper Sizes

Oily Pakora writes "Those of us in the United States are so used to our Letter and Legal paper sizes. We've seen the A4 paper size option in our printer trays and in printer preference menus. Metric sizes used almost everywhere in the world, save for the US and Canada. Here is an interesting article that discusses all of the aspects of metric paper. For those who enjoy a bit of math, did you know that in the Metric paper system, the height-to-width ratio of all pages is the square root of 2? This means that you can place two sheets of A4 side-by-side and they will equal an A3 sheet exactly, and two sheets of A3 will equal an A2."

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

It's articles like this

[Anonymous Coward]

That make me happy my rolling paper is not metric
-B

Obligatory

[swordboy]

PC Load Letter!? WTF does that mean?!

Audi A4

[Anonymous Coward]

There's also an Audi A4, and if you put two of those side by side, people say "Look, isn't that a coincidence".

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[Leffe]

Not at all, I thought everyone knew this... I don't live in America though...

The Metric System Sucks!!

[USAPatriot]

I am of the firm belief that the metric system sucks. It is a global conspiracy created to cause the downfall of all things that we know and love. Upon careful examination it is clear that the metric system is at least indirectly responsible for most of the world's problems, including but not limited to:

* Government conspiracy
* Microsoft Windows
* Rap Music
* Hondas and their drivers
* Transistors
* Pokemon
* Jerry Springer
* Televangelism
* Toxic waste
* The Republicans
* The Democrats
* Defective and bogus hardware
* Wrenches that dont fit
* Starbucks coffee
* Communism
* Soccer
* The Euro

I will fight this metric paper with every OUNCE...

[Anonymous Coward]

I will fight this metric paper bedevilment with every OUNCE of courage I have.

It's official...

[Your_Mom]

I can't deny it anymore.

I just read an article on metric pages and found it incredibly intresting.

At one point I said "Wow, Cool"

I think I've gone beyond 'geek'.

I feel dirty.

Re:Drugs teach American kids the metric system.

[Anonymous Coward]

The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it.

Shouldn't that be:

My car gets forty rods to the berg'shead and that's the way I likes it.

Nick berg's head is useful for so many things... bowling, wall-mounted decoration, could make a pinwheel out of it, dodgeball...

Let's see your creativity, slashdot, what would YOU do with that head?

Mod parent up.

[Anonymous Coward]

Jeez, must be a slow day. I'll go search the net for something that was new 30 years ago and post it on Slashdot!

Re:It's articles like this

[Anonymous Coward]

Mine is....and two pinners side by side makes one phattie

Re:It's articles like this

[justforaday]

That make me happy my rolling paper is not metric

oh, i dunno...can't say i'd mind something rolled with a sheet of A0... @_@

If you enjoy math..

[teamhasnoi]

remember that two 8 1/2 x 11 sheets equal an 11 x 17 sheet and four 4 x 5 cards can fit on a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. A ream of paper is 500 sheets and if you divide that by two, you get 250 sheets which really means nothing; I needed two extra facts for my post about math.

2 x (8.5 x 11) = (11 x 17)

[MagnaMark]

This clever side-by-side feature applies to the 8.5 x 11 (letter) and 11 x 17 sizes that are quite common in the US and Canada as well.

I'm not sure about "legal" paper and the rest.

And don't worry everyone, Microsoft is aware [microsoft.com] of the problem! To quote: "The paper sizes in the United States and Canada (such as letter, legal, and so on) do not satisfy the needs of all users in the world market."

Fear not! They'll solve this problem by embracing and extending the ISO paper-size standard. The new sizes will be MS-A4, MS-A3, etc. Of couse, you will only be able to print to these pages from MS apps, but what else is there?

< / slashdot obligatory off-topic M$ bashing for karma>

the metric system is fun

[revery]

This means that you can place two sheets of A4 side-by-side and they will equal an A3 sheet exactly, and two sheets of A3 will equal an A2."

And of course, 5 sheets of almost any metric sized paper folded into origami lions will inevitably merge to form Voltron, a robot so powerful that it will usually let it's enemies kick it's butt around for a good 15 to 20 minutes before it forms the blazing sword and finishes the fight.

Re:Neat

[the MaD HuNGaRIaN]

did you get a box of 11.69" envelopes to go with that?

Only on /.

[DR SoB]

Would a metric discussion of PAPER be taken this far/seriously.. Only on /.

This is stuff that matters? Too WHO?!

Re:Obligatory

[AndyElf]

Actually, newer (as in, say last 3-5 yrs) HP printers (proper ones, not the small crap that tends to spread like cancer in poorly managed offices) have a config option to always override this sort of a mis-hap.

One thing I was always curious though, is why is it asking 'PC' for letter-sized paper? Why not 'Dude, load letter'?

Re:I will fight this metric paper with every OUNCE

[Frothy Walrus]

Now is that a solid ounce, a fluid ounce, or an apothecary ounce?

Re:Just in case the server crashes and burns...

[BillyZ]

hmmm Original site must have been a vampire.. cause I don't see it in your mirror. ;o)

Obligatory homer paraphrasing

[bperkins]

OOOoo! Look at me! I use the metric system!

I only know how to divide by ten!

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[Sendy]

Metric? Why is this called metric paper? Because we say it's 210mm × 297mm? These numbers are clearly rounded.

Please enlighten me.

Re:It's official...

[PaschalNee]

I feel dirty.
Luckily you can clean yourself up while being compliant to the standard!

In some countries (e.g., Germany) even many brands of toilet paper have format A6.

It just works

[johnmrowe]

Whilst I appreciate people's devotion to measurements based on the toe nail of some long-dead king, what they don't seem to realise is that the "root two" system really works well in practice.

It makes it really easy to take an A4 document (the normal paper size) and print it double-size on an A3 printer or photocopier. It's equally easy to print a document two-per page (or four or whatever) or to make an A5 pamphlet by printing it two pages per sheet and folding it in half.

And nothing needs to be rescaled or reformatted.

It's one of those "once you tried it you'll never go back" IT experiences, like full-screen text editors, network graphics systems, PVRs and video projectors.

John

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[syn3rg]

that whols "A" paper size is a big fat zero...:
Simplifying
2A * 4 = A * 3

Reorder the terms for easier multiplication:
2 * 4A = A * 3

Multiply 2 * 4
8A = A * 3

Reorder the terms for easier multiplication:
8A = 3A

Solving
8A = 3A

Move all terms containing A to the left, all other terms to the right.

Add '-3A' to each side of the equation.
8A + -3A = 3A + -3A

Combine like terms: 8A + -3A = 5A
5A = 3A + -3A

Combine like terms: 3A + -3A = 0
5A = 0

Divide each side by '5'.
A = 0

Simplifying
A = 0

Bah.

[Anonymous Coward]

My car is a jet dragster, you insensitive clod!

Never happen in the US!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm just sitting here drinking my 2-liter soda and I'm thinking: we tried the metric system, and it failed. So what do I care about paper? /irony

Re:I will fight this metric paper with every OUNCE

[ColourlessGreenIdeas]

An ounce is defined as the maximum weight that can be carried by 1 swallow.

I love it. It helped me get more points on a Chem

[MisanthropicProgram]

test.
This happened years ago. I had a Chem. test and the question had something to do with densities - I can't remember. But the point is, I remembered that the density of water is one, all the units where metric, and calculating the density, volume, and mass were a no brainer with the metric system.

I once got into a friendly argument with an engineer over the merits of the metric system. His argument "Foot-Lbs. I know what that is - that's obvious! Newton - what the fuck is a Newton."

Fight Metric!

[Quack1701]

We don't want a foreign Ruler!

When all else fails...Press "Shift-Continue"

[HDlife]

HP really should of replaced that with a "Just Print My Darn Document, you smart-ass metricly-challenged printer" button.

They FINALLY put a cancel button on their inkjets that actually cancels the whole job so you don't keep getting the remaing 500 pages of PCL interpreted as text.

Re:Drugs teach American kids the metric system.

[WormholeFiend]

but metric paper makes much better airplanes.

Re:Oooo.... root 2!

[lc_overlord]

*cheesy homer imitation* mmmm... icon sized paper.
8.5mm x 11mm, i never heard of that paper size, it's like the world has gone crazy.

oops

[jbellis]

you are correct; I subtracted 8 instead of 18mm.

skinnier is still ugly though. :)

Next in our series:

[R.Caley]

``Did you know knives have sharp edges so you can cut things with them''

Re:And this is superior why?

[MightyYar]

And you start without capitalization and end without punctuation.

Dick.

Re:Neat

[a1englishman]

Tada! You'd get this.
Now you've gone and done it. Thousands of people will be linking to Staples, and purchasing size A4. Staples in turn will start stocking nothing but A4, and the whole of American society will be turned on it's ear. Filing cabinets will be the wrong size, and all other social aspects will deteriorate. In the end, George W. Bush gets re-elected, and Chaney declares a war on intelligencia.

You bastard!

Joke on USers:

[Qbertino]

The funniest (sadest?) thing is that you kicked the british out and kept the worse thing they had voluntarily. The *imperial* system!
Even thought the french helped you! That's the real loser part.

BTW: It was Napoleon who established the metric system big time in large parts of his area of influence.
Shame he couldn't follow the other guidelines:
Universal Rule Number One: Never start a land war in Asia.

Re:Drugs teach American kids the metric system.

[SEWilco]

but metric paper makes much better airplanes.

And they always fly a decimal fraction of the Earth's circumference.

Blame the English

[mitchell_pgh]

We didn't start this crazy system... It was forced on us by the English, and I feel, as a U.S. citizen that they should flip the bill to convert us over.

wow

[tuggy]

wow! great discovery!
any ten-year-old in europe knows that...

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[dtrent]

lol, chop sticks are more versitile then forks. You can do eevry thign you do with a fork, but also some things you can't, like picking up a tiny grain of rice

Well, maybe *you* can, I can't even keep them in my hands :-) (how long does it take you to eat a bento one grain at a time anyway?)

Re:Drugs teach American kids the metric system.

[RevAaron]

It's an SUV! It's his right to drive such a beast! God bless the American Way (tm)! And yes, he whines about gas prices.

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[Anonymous Coward]

chop sticks are more versitile then forks...like picking up a tiny grain of rice...

No wonder people in China are starving, they eat one grain of rice at a time!

Re:Audi A4

[Golias]

Two Mini Coopers side by side == One Audi A4
Two Audis == One BAM ("Big Assed Mercedes")
Two Mercedes == One average European house.

Wow, those Europeans can apply simple metric system math to everything!

Meanwhile, in America:
Two Mini Coopers side by side == One speed bump for a Hummer H2.
Two Audis in the driveway == A good house to break into.
Two Mercedes == Really, really tacky.
Two Hummers == The energy consumption of a typical third-world country
Two thrid world countries == A re-unified Germany. (I keed!)

Re:Yet another reason for the US to switch to metr

[forrestt]

Actually, it has to do with apple pie. Since there is nothing more American than apple pie, the apple pie recipe is considered sacred. It has been passed down from generation to generation since the start of this glorious nation. Unfortunatly, it has been passed down on the female side of our ancestry, and we men have been telling our women that:

|------| = 10 inches, when in fact
|---------| = 10 inches.

This has caused them to become totally confused with regard to units of measure, and they are thus unable to convert imperial to metric units. Thus, if we were to switch to using the metric system, we would no longer be able to bake apple pies, a situation we are just not willing to accept.

Re:I love it. It helped me get more points on a Ch

[proggoddess]

Newtons are fruit and cake.

Holy crap.

[Gannoc]

For those who enjoy a bit of math, did you know that in the Metric paper system, the height-to-width ratio of all pages is the square root of 2?

Slow News Day of the Year Award nominee here.

Re:The simplest reason A4 won't take off in the US

[easter1916]

Did it say "Purple-Tinged A4 x 500 Sheets" on the packaging?

Re:A complex way to point out simplity.

[mrzaph0d]

I'll be ready, cause I saw the movie in school, 'splaining that we'd be all metric by 1976

weird thing is, i saw that same movie in 1987

Re:A complex way to point out simplity.

[Grooby]

Does this apply to Volumes?!?! cut a D-Cup size bra to get 2 C-cCup size bra?!?!

Re:Drugs teach American kids the metric system.

[poot_rootbeer]

504 gallons to go 1 mile!

Yep, sounds like a True American car to me.

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[Bob McCown]

But to play devil's advocate here for the non-scientists: who the hell walks around with a ton of water and a giant cube of plexiglass?

The same place I store my 200 foot coil of rope, and 15 foot staff!

Re:The Metric System Sucks!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be stupid....metric is already used in all things that we know and love

for instance

* 9mm
* 5.56mm
* 7.62mm
* 10mm
* 105mm
* 40mm
* 30mm
* 120mm

I mean, hey if your guns have all changed, isn't it time that you did too.....

Re:Side-by-sideness

[ajs]

Also, if you take 3 8.5x11 sheets, line them up along their longer sides, attach them to eachother, put a staple through the middle of the first and second sheet join and then hang them from a height of approximately eye-level it makes the idea place for a picture of a naked "girl next door".

My buddy Heff taught me that trick.

Re:Not English

[WhyCause]

Actually, not quite. For example, When I ask for a pint and get a glass with a bulge it is (usually) an Imperial pint (i.e., 20 fluid ounces). A a stright-walled glass is a U.S. pint (or English), and is, sadly, only 16 fluid ounces.

Distinctions are made between the 'English' (or U.S.) and 'Imperial' systems of measure, it's just that most people do not often run into the Imperial system except at bars, and debating the differences between measurement systems is no way to pick up chics.

Re:WHAT?

[tverbeek]

I can do everything with a fork that I can with chopsticks, and more.

How do you play the piano with a fork?

Re:Yes, but...

[ChrisMaple]

If Fermat had used American paper, we wouldn't have had to wait 350 years for a proof of his last theorem.

Re:The Metric System Sucks!!

[Bullseye_blam]

Hmmm, after reading the parent poster's username and some of his other comments, I'm not sure he was kidding. :/

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[huchida]

This whole thing reminds me of a thing Jerry Seinfeld did, making fun of chinese people eating with sticks. He said something about that he could not understand why they kept eating with sticks, since "they have seen the fork".

I wonder why Westerners insist on using both a fork and spoon to eat after they've seen the Spork.

Re:Huh?

[ChrisMaple]

So when you want to divide your 1 meter board into 4, you're now stuck with 2.5 cm pieces.

Wow, I'd like to see your saw. It leaves a kerf of 30 cm.

Re:Drugs teach American kids the metric system.

[Idarubicin]

damn your car is a gas guzzeler!

504 gallons to go 1 mile!

From here [oteromesa.org], the gas mileage of a modern aircraft carrier is seventeen feet per gallon...so he's getting 40% less distance per unit of fuel.

Consequently, I speculate that his vehicle must be an aircraft carrier...operating on land.

My only question is, where the hell does he park it?

Re:A complex way to point out simplity.

[servognome]

maybe its strictly designed for slingshot use. Probably take down a medieval castle with that thing.

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[Tree131]

fork chop sticks!!!!

Mommy!!! Look! Look! I just made 8 piercings in my tongue!

Re:Drugs teach American kids the metric system.

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

Consequently, I speculate that his vehicle must be an aircraft carrier...operating on land. My only question is, where the hell does he park it?

If it's still fully equipped and armed, then the correct answer is:

Wherever he wants to.

Re:A complex way to point out simplity.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah... and there's countries that aren't part of the US, too.

It's called "The Rest Of The World". You'll find we do a lot of things differently here, if you ever bother to look.

Um. Sorry. Bad day. :-/

Re:A complex way to point out simplity.

[iminplaya]

Yeah... and there's countries that aren't part of the US, too.

Not for long...

Re:Metric & The US

[Idarubicin]

From this perspective, a human perspective, it makes complete sense to have differing systems of measurement. There would be obvious advantages if we all spoke the same language, but no one is proposing that we make everyone learn Chinese (quit being ethnocentric!).

Don't tell George Bush that he's using Arabic numerals...

Re:I will fight this metric paper with every OUNCE

[jo_ham]

Is that an African or European swallow?

Re:Not English

[Kulaid982]

"PC Load Letter? What the fuck does that mean?!?"

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[honkycat]

Go to your nearest outdoor store and if you're lucky you can find the wondrous eating implement that is the Titanium Spork! I never leave home without mine...

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[carlos_benj]

You mean, "...the French AM smarter then us"..."

The scary thing is

[empaler]

that you can prolly buy movies with titles like "N-Cup Fuck" or shit like that. *eeeew*

Re:Drugs teach American kids the metric system.

[Sirch]

Hmm. Shouldn't have used that as a reference then. It totally compromises my explanation.

Silly websites, with their alternative opinions.

Also,

[empaler]

We have units that correlate... So 1 cubic decimetre equals 1 litre... it's fucking amazing... and don't get me started on how our temperature system actually relates to something sane...
(The funny thing is, it was a countryman of mine who invented what later became modified to be the Fahrenheit system - and it was based on stuff like "the temperature of a healthy mouth" and the temperature under the arm of a sick person" etc.!)

When I was in the army

[empaler]

we saw a movie that warned us about the dangers of Trench Foot - it was made around the time of WWII, in the US.

My first day in the army was the 3rd of December, 2001. Ahem.

Re:The simplest reason A4 won't take off in the US

[Anonymous Coward]

Another difference is that a British plug and socket was designed to cope with 250V at 13 amps - which would melt a continental one.

The reason? Some say it's the British love of a cup of tea. You've got to be able to power that electric kettle somehow...

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[jhobbs]

I bow before the you O Wise One. (and I just ordered my titanium spork)

Re:When I was in the army

[sketerpot]

It's good to see that the army is using creative money-saving measures, rather than blowing a few million on a big special-effects-filled movie on the same subject. Now maybe they can buy more guns!

Re:2 x A4 = A3

[mikis]

Lacking the proper equipment do measure 1/299,792,458th of a second, I'd say it is close enough.