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Wireless Networking Spam Hardware

Coming Soon to a Wireless Hotspot Near You: Ads 363

mindless4210 writes "A new generation of spam is born with the launch of FreeFi's new Wi-Fi advertising network. It is the first service of its kind, with intentions of delivering ad content to hotspots around the world starting in mid-Summer. FreeFi's President, Lawrence Laffer, says that the service displays a 'persistent set of ads adjacent to the user's browser without use of invasive advertising software or pop-up ads.' He also claims '[their] market research indicates that, except for pop-ups, people really don't mind ads.'" This seems like the kind of thing that would keep me from using "free" wireless access, but I've a feeling I'm in the minority.
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Coming Soon to a Wireless Hotspot Near You: Ads

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  • Re:Ads... so what? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by crackshoe ( 751995 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:05PM (#9041184)
    I'd rather deal with ads (although i'm undecided about flash adds with cutesy soounds) to get free wireless access, although i've had some bad experiences with hotel's that offer free wireless - mostly that they periodically shunt you to a very slow loading, grpahics intensive splash page. Still... free with a catch is still free enough.
  • Go Anti-Spammers (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:05PM (#9041195)
    Wifi is a medium which requires cooperation to work, so if enough people object to this, they can actually do something about the commercials. Drown the ads ... ... or just offer free access to your AP.
  • Past experience (Score:5, Interesting)

    by pen ( 7191 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:05PM (#9041201)
    Isn't this the same exact thing that NetZero (and Juno and others) have tried in the past with dial-up? Are any of them still offering free access?
  • what browser? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Hatta ( 162192 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:06PM (#9041205) Journal
    This seems like the kind of thing that would keep me from using "free" wireless access, but I've a feeling I'm in the minority.

    Yep, the majority of us will just find a way around it. I kinda doubt they'll be putting ads next to my lynx window.
  • by RobertB-DC ( 622190 ) * on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:06PM (#9041207) Homepage Journal
    Submitter: He also claims '[their] market research indicates that, except for pop-ups, people really don't mind ads.'"
    CowboyNeil: This seems like the kind of thing that would keep me from using "free" wireless access, but I've a feeling I'm in the minority.

    Actually, Mr. Cowboy, you just validated their business plan.

    While the idea of free wireless Internet access is fun for the user, there's still the annoying fact that someone's paying for your bandwidth. Ideally, geeks like us would be more than happy to open their broadband connections to the world -- I would, if I could get broadband in rural east Texas.

    Unfortunately, there aren't enough altruistic geeks per square mile to sustain that "business model". So someone has to pay the bill. Why not advertisers?

    I run Opera [opera.com], but I'm too cheap to pay for it. So I have a banner ad built into my browser. I even click it sometimes -- out of curiosity, or to send Opera some ad clicks. I'm willing to put up with advertising to get the product, and lucky for me, the model is working.

    I hope ad-supported wireless access takes off. I wouldn't put my money in the companies, though... anyone remember Bluelight [bluelight.com]?
  • by millahtime ( 710421 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:08PM (#9041242) Homepage Journal
    But, Netzero, Juno and others got themselves a customer base from offering free then converted to pay. They turned many of those customers to pay customers. Same thing could be applied here.

    It's like drung dealing. First you get them addicted then you start charging.
  • by commo1 ( 709770 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:08PM (#9041243)
    This reminds me of an old points programme (emphasis on the "mme") that paid people to surf with ads on their machines..... Now: My poll question: What is more acceptable: Ads a) on top or below your surfing/working window or b) to the left or right? My vote is for the right side, as we normally read from left to right, and the ads are discarded by (my) brain as superflouous. Comments? Opinions?

    BTW, I only ask this and entertain the notion because like it or not, ads are going to be a part of the hotspot experience.... why not do it right from the beginning?
  • Not enough info (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MysticalMatt517 ( 772389 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:09PM (#9041254) Homepage
    I think I could live with the ads if it was definately a free service. The thing that scares me about this is that eventually we'll start seeing services that make you pay AND cram ads down your throat. (see Cable TV)

    Also, it depends on what kind of software they make you install to see the ads / access the network. I'm assuming that they'll have to use something because if it's just a proxy I think it would be to easy too defeat. If they make you install special software, is it going to be Windows only?

    I don't have enough details to make judgment yet.
  • not ads (Score:5, Interesting)

    by photoblur ( 552862 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:10PM (#9041257) Homepage

    I'd much rather the hotspot be funded by charging an extra $0.10 for coffee, or whatever the business may be. Actually, I just set up a WiFi hotspot for a local coffeehouse and the "free" WiFi has brought him enough extra business that he feels quite justified in not charging extra for the service.

    WiFi should be a condiment, like catsup or salt or paper napkins...

  • Windows Only? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by loginx ( 586174 ) <xavier&wuug,org> on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:10PM (#9041258) Homepage
    This will require software to be installed on the client's computer in order to display the ads besides the browser, I assume.

    Does that mean that there is a 99.99% chance that this software won't install on linux (or Mac) and only windows laptops will be able to access those spots?

    Isn't there a better way to do this that doesn't require software installation? like injecting HTML code for banner ads in the pages viewed by users on your network like free hosting companies were doing all the time back in the days?

    Does that also mean that there will be no way to tell if there is malicious (or even vulnerable) code bundled with the software?
  • Not Really Spam... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by zokrath ( 593920 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:12PM (#9041285)
    If the free wireless internet access is funded via advertisements, then those ads are not spam. Television ads are not spam; spam is widespread and unsolicited advertisement.

    This is not to say that advertising is not often irritating and intrusive, but beggars can not be browsers without being subjected to ads.

    Of course, they could very well be monitoring and recording what you are doing online, above and beyond simple browsing information, in the name of 'targeted marketing'. But that is for the tin foil crowd to determine; I do not have a laptop, let alone use wireless access in public locations, so I am not too concerned about the privacy implications, 'First they came for the WiFiers' be damned.
  • by corris ( 154178 ) * on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:12PM (#9041296)
    last I tried, wifi supported other protocols like ftp, ssh, etc. are they going to block those and only allow http?

    obviously they're injecting the adds into the http stream.

    I'll just ssh to work and tunnel to my proxy server...
  • by pigscanfly.ca ( 664381 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:21PM (#9041397) Homepage
    Just in case the server crashes and burns (like they usually do),I have put up a mirror.
    The mirror of http://www.freefinet.com/ is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_304/www.freefinet.c om/ [demonmoo.com]
    The mirror of http://www.dailywireless.com/modules.php?name=News &file=article&sid=240 is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_304/www.dailywirele ss.com/modules.php%3fname=News&amp%3bfile=article& amp%3bsid=240 [demonmoo.com]
    The mirror of http://www.freefinet.com/id13.html is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_304/www.freefinet.c om/id13.html [demonmoo.com]
  • Let's whine about it (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Myrrh ( 53301 ) <`redin575' `at' `gmail.com'> on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:23PM (#9041430)
    It's cool, it's FREE, supported by nonintrusive ads on the side of your Web browser, and it's likely fast, too.

    And all a significant portion of the Slashdot crowd can think to do is whine about it being "probably closed source" and "probably Windows" and you don't know if it's secure or not ... cry me a river.

    You want to use it, cool. Don't do anything that you wouldn't want published in the NY Times. Do that stuff at home.

    If you want your Open Source and your Linux and your guarantees that it's free, well, open up your own business and give away YOUR bandwidth.

    And quit whining, dammit. Geesh. Use it or don't.
  • by slappyjack ( 196918 ) <slappyjack@gmail.com> on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:30PM (#9041524) Homepage Journal
    When you look at it, whats the cost for a small coffe chop of restaurant to offer free wireless in their place? Maybe $50-70 a month for broadband, then slap in a Linksys wireless router for $100, then maybe figure out how to lock the thing down a little.

    Let the customers know that this is a free and open network, and that you're not responsible to what happens to their machines, and thats about it.

    Its been my experience that people will go to a place to pay 10 times over cost for a cup of coffee spedifically because they can boot up and be online without having to goof with their settings too much. Like these folks, I will even spend a little more just staying there a little longer because I can sit and read /. for hours on end in a nice environment.

    10 people a week spend an extra $2.50 a visit because of the wireless and you get $25. 4.2 weeks in the average month adds up to $105.

    Bingo. WiFi cost recovered.

    This doesn't even take into account the Evercrack geeks that will sit there for hours on end mainlining shot after shot of espresso into themselves for that extra twitch speed while playing.

    This is just yet another attempt at a useless industry trying to insert themselves into a place where they're not wanted or needed.

    Hey Marketers, fuck you. We're not going to buy your shit no matter how many times you put it in front of us.
  • by straponego ( 521991 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:31PM (#9041531)
    I've stayed at a hotel (C??rty?rd) which, on top of $10/day for Internet access, has proxies configured to hijack requests for Amazon. If you try to buy something through their connection, they rewrite the headers to get the referral credit. This should be illegal... I noticed because at the time I stayed, their code was a little broken, at least with Moz/Linux, but it was clear from the error message what they were attempting. I just used an SSH tunnel through one of my systems for the rest of my browsing... but I'm sure they made some nice bucks from the victim class (MS/IE users).
  • by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:34PM (#9041571) Homepage Journal
    Its a way to rope you in, then slowly increase your cost to actual hard dollars...

    Look at what happened with TV.. used to be free.. then commercials.. then nothing but commercials...then cable... now you got cable and dish with a fee to watch the commercials.....
  • by IWannaBeAnAC ( 653701 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:37PM (#9041609)
    Are these guys offering wireless internet access? or just a web proxy stuffed with adds?
  • by KanSer ( 558891 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:38PM (#9041615)
    I know if it's on the right they'll get lots of inadvertant clicks when people are aiming for the scroll bar. Then again, it's another reason to put it there.

    Stuff on the bottom just fucks with my brain. Anytime I'm on a friend's computer and those huge msn e-mail warnings come up (and those are hella small compared to these ads) or some retard has logged on I always scream out in horror. No one should put anything down there that isn't in a taskbar and cordoned off from doing anything to my sanity!

    Left sucks, it would just jar your browsing experience. No one needs that.

    On the top? Uhh... Probably again alot of inadvertant clicking trying to minimize or close. I know for me I have all my windows maximized so I can just whip my mouse up to the top right (Requires no brain use) and start mashing mouse buttons.

    So if the Victorians taught us anything about logic, the choice is to put it on the right.
  • by repetty ( 260322 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:45PM (#9041690) Homepage
    Terrible business model. The model has failed.

    That fact that only one company retains a version of is proof.

    --Richard
  • To cheap to meter (Score:3, Interesting)

    by pauljlucas ( 529435 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @12:48PM (#9041726) Homepage Journal
    Hosting these free hotspots costs money...
    Not really [simson.net].
  • Re:Must be closed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by KingOfBLASH ( 620432 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @01:03PM (#9041913) Journal
    If they are only modifying traffic going in and out of port 80, you should still be able to play online games, etc. (Assuming they don't firewall off those ports). Besides, it's easy to tell whats a web page and what's binary data. Web pages usually use charachters and not weird characthers, and usually have things like
    <html><head></head></html>
    in them.
  • by MrLizardo ( 264289 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @01:24PM (#9042184) Journal
    Just because the profit margin for operating an ISP on ad revenue wasn't too good, doesn't mean that ad-supported wifi won't work out. Wifi is just about as close to zero upkeep cost as Internet access gets. I mean, you get an access point, a smallish server hooked to it if you want to get fancy, and pay for a business DSL line. All you have to do is bring in more than the cost of the physical Internet connection+fixed business expences+pay off the access point and you're in the clear. Operating a Dial-up ISP on the other hand would be much more cost prohibitive both in initial cost and recurring costs. A physical CoLo facility, enough phone lines to support all the users that could be logged on at once at peak hours, a decent sized pipe to the Internet, a couple web/email servers in that CoLo. There is kind of a lot of recurring cost there.

    -Mr. Lizardo
  • Could it be.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by acidrain69 ( 632468 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @01:38PM (#9042344) Journal
    without use of invasive advertising software or pop-up ads?

    Sounds like they may just be using a transparent proxy to add some HTML to the sites you view to show some ads. Could be as simple as a 2 column table with one column for ads and the other for the page you requested.

    Time to break out the hosts file. Although this would leave an empty table on one side. There are some proxies available that will actually edit out pages for you, so you could have little proxy wars with the provider.

    I know advertising has it's place, but for me personally, they just get in the way, especially when they are flashy and annoying. If the host can't afford to provide without annoying it's visitors, it's time to close up shop, or get a clue.
  • Re:Must be closed (Score:4, Interesting)

    by KingOfBLASH ( 620432 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @01:47PM (#9042446) Journal
    So then the trivial way around it is to find a proxy that doesn't use port 80.

    Yup. You got it. But, again, they don't have to allow traffic on non-standard ports. They could decide that P2P clients / games were too bandwidth hungry, and there was no income coming in from them anyways, so just have the firewall drop all outbound connections to any port other then 80. In which case you would need a proxy that used port 80 to play games.

  • Sounds good to me (Score:2, Interesting)

    by BrianKHud ( 115884 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @01:53PM (#9042538) Homepage
    It doesn't sound that bad to me. Free wireless access in exchange for some ads? Yes I'd hate the ads, but I don't think Joe user would mind that much so long as it didn't physically interfere with their experience like popups.

    Heck, it would probably be entertaining for a lot of people for my girlfriend. I think the thing that a lot of slashdotters forget is that not everyone puts all of their worth in their independent activist intelligence. Some people don't feel insulted by things like this, in fact, often times they are blessed in a way that many of us (including myself) could benefit from because they just ignore it.

    I mean, really. Think about it. User goes out to favorite public park. Surfs the internet, chats with family back home, has to look at skippy peanut butter ad. I'd say it's a pretty fair trade.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 03, 2004 @02:05PM (#9042668)
    ... or the one that first came to my mind, and of course a way to avoid it while we're at it:

    Implementation method: Refreshing authentication page, works like this:

    1. laptop uses dhcp or whatever to get started, technical details omitted (for simplicity) here 'cept that most likely it gets a reserved (10.x.x.x, 172.16.x.x, 192.168.x.x) IP...
    2. laptop tries to access *any* tcp port (ok, most likely dns but who cares?)
    3. if unexpected (non-login) destination, reply with pseudo-human-readable http redirect regardless of the protocol actually used (well, except for dns which should do same kind of redirect too) -- for simplicity udp, ipsec and others are ignored for now...
    4. on "login" page just have a button for opening the ad window (javascript or just frame target)
    5. every time the ad page is loaded, create/extend a session for the laptop, thus allowing all traffic the user wants (IPv6 anyone?)
    6. have a meta refresh tag on the ad page or if evil/greedy, use a more difficult to avoid javascript version of the same
    7. for extra user friendliness have custom firewalling available on the login page! :-)

    And now, the way to avoid this kind of solutions: Create a (trivial) app to handle the login keepalive stuff. Even if some silly javascript is used this should be really trivial for those who know. Luckily for this business model the chances of Joe Average actually going for such extremes are non-existent as long as the implementation is mostly non-intrusive.

  • Re:Mod parent up (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Buran ( 150348 ) on Monday May 03, 2004 @02:47PM (#9043223)
    I don't mind those at all since they don't shove themselves into the content screaming at me to BUY BUY BUY! when I'm in soak-up-all-the-info mode during a NOVA or other documentary about a subject that interests me. When I sit down to watch a program, I'm there to learn (my tastes are typically documentaries when I'm watching television, with the occasional Star Trek or similar thrown in; the Trek stuff gets the ads skipped via Tivo; sadly, I've seen most of the ads I skip over at least once because they just run the same ads over and over. I already know whether or not I'm interested in the advertised products).

    Typically, the ads in PBS talk about something that actually interests me (while I don't like Ford automobiles and wouldn't buy one - I'm a Volkswagen gal - I found their mention of buses powered by propane - I think it was, anyway - interesting and worthy of following up by websearches sometime when I'm in the mood.) They are also not flashy and annoying like ads on regular TV are; they present their information usually with a narrator describing something (and closed captioning reprinting what he/she is saying; I'm hearing-impaired so I have it on all the time) and simple is sometimes better, or at least quite sufficient.

    And I do want to hear about what big companies are doing to preserve the environment and at least try to put something other than profit first, even if it's just a miniscule part of what they do. While sometimes I think they're not doing enough, the fact that they're doing SOMEthing is a good thing and hopefully in the future more will follow, and these companies will continue to improve themselves in that regard.

    My parents are a member of the local PBS station, too. So we are also supporting these great programs through direct donation.

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