HP Releases New RPN Scientific Calculator 402
majid writes "HP just announced a new calculator, the HP 33S. It supports RPN and algebraic notation, and sports a funky V-shaped design. I don't think it looks as nice as the 33SII it is supposed to replace, and it seems to have rubber keys instead of the wonderful hard plastic keys on older HP calculators, but it's nice to have a new RPN scientific calculator that does not have the intimidating learning (and remembering) curve of the 48 or 49 series. This one just might join my trusty 15C ...
The User's manual PDF is available courtesy of Amazon, where it is apparently already No. 85 on the best-selling list."
*calc are dying (Score:2, Interesting)
Plus there are loads of software for Palms that can do statistics, etc..
Too bad HP can't see it. Or maybe they can and they want to rip you off? After all, if you buy a Palm, all you have to do it upgrade
Calculators are here to stay (Score:5, Interesting)
No, for 'real' usage, you cant replace a real calculator with a flat emulation of one.
That said i do have a RPN emulator for my Toshiba 330, but still, when i have to do more then just a quick calculation, its back to my HP48. ( or 41, that got me thru college.. )
Re:Calculators are here to stay (Score:5, Insightful)
As a computational astrophysicist, I no longer find any use for hand-held calculators whatsoever. If I find the need to do a detailed numerical computation while working, I simply pop up Mathematica. I have hundreds of physical constants relevant for my work stored in a handy ".m" file, so if I wish to compute, say, the Planck mass, I can simply type in "Sqrt [hbar c / G]", rather than punching in numerical values. It is far more convenient and _more powerful_ than using a hand calculator since I can readily construct expressions, do symbolic manipulations on them, and produce complex plots with very little effort. Mathematica has an enormous understanding of mathematical functions, so if I want, say, the value of second derivative of the Laguerre polynomial of order n, I can simply enter "N [D [LaguerreL [n, x], x] ]". (Try to stuff than in your calculator and smoke it.) It also has unlimited numerical precision, so if I want the value of Pi to 100 digits, I just enter "N [Pi, 100]". (Not a practical example, given that 100 decades is greater than the total number of fundamental particles in the current Hubble radius, but an illustrative one nonetheless.) In addition, I have the ability to immediately translate those expressions into Tex format or C or Fortran code, so that they can be readily incorporated into papers or other standalone code. And that is saying nothing of the fact that a full-sized keyboard is vastly easier to use than _either_ a stylus or a weeny calculator keypad.
If I am in a meeting of some kind or just informally speaking to someone, and the need for a quick numerical estimate comes up, I can always whip out an estimate good to within 10% without using any calculating aid other than a pencil and paper. You'll find that all good scientists and engineers can do quick back-of-the-envelope calculations when the need arises.
So what use are calculators in schools when students could be using Mathematica (or any other mathematical software of their choice) on their laptops? The plain fact of the matter is that math and science instructors almost universally do not wish to construct a course in which the learning goes beyond the simplest applications of the principles learned. Therefore, they must almost always artificially control additional information and calculating aids during exams (normally no notes, books, or computers). Calculators are the one concession they do allow, only because their functionality is limited, and therefore the aid they provide is also limited. I admit calculators have become reasonably sophisticated as of late, and so as a result, partially to offset any potential unfair advantage, instructors are increasingly allowing students to stuff all of the equations they can fit onto a "cheat sheet" of a certain size.
When you think about the situation, it is fairly ludicrous. No literature professor would make a student write a term paper on Shakespeare without having access to the original plays and all the additional supplemental information he can lay his hands on. But it is easier to construct a system in which students are tested on rote memory and simple application of known template examples from class, rather than being able to use all the resources at their disposal to synthesize everything they have learned in creative applications. Synthesis and creative use of one's knowledge, is, after all, what real world science and engineering are all about. Primarily because of this artificial construction, classwork performance is quite often a poor indicator of a student's potential as a real scientist or engineer.
Bob
Re:Calculators are here to stay (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Calculators are here to stay (Score:4, Insightful)
Or just grab a scrap of paper and a pencil and figure it out in your head.
Re:Calculators are here to stay (Score:3, Informative)
I'm merely a physicist turned software engineer, so please forgive my audacity and insolence in reminding you that laptops are not allowed in exams.
Daniel
Re:*calc are dying (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:*calc are dying (Score:3, Insightful)
solve for k
k = -c tan(a k)
or
k = c cot(a k)
Graphing k against c tan(a k), visually inspecting the intersections, and then numerically calculating the intersections is the easiest way to do this.
I agree that people need to learn the hard way first, but we don't all have to be ascetic math monks.
Re:*calc are dying (Score:3, Informative)
Nah, it's you who can't see it, calculators are not going anywhere.
Well... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Well... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Re:Well... (Score:3, Interesting)
TI is generally bad news. My roommate and I found a bug that kills all your memory and TI told us that they wouldn't fix it. "Don't press those buttons" is what they told us.
I'm going for an HP when I next need a calculator (our school required TI-89s, but frankly I get more and more fed up with their idiocy every day. They're great for high schoolers, but for people doing real math, I think HP wins.)
Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Re:You havn't used a HP33s... (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't use calculators. (Score:3, Funny)
I just give the closest unemployed math student a buck to solve anything more complicated then 1 + 1 = 3.
You laugh, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
The truth that you'll never hear in college is that in engineering, intuition a
Interesting take (Score:3, Insightful)
There are a lot of people around who have a good feel for stuff that I tend to analyse, but often I analyse it because its fun, not necessary. I have had some technicians working with me who could not
algebraic notation (Score:2)
Re:algebraic notation (Score:2, Informative)
RPN: 2 1 +
Definitely for nerds... (Score:2)
Daniel
Good for basic math (Score:3, Informative)
The Ti92 (or Ti89 if you don't want the qwerty keyboard) is still the best route to go for higher-level mathematics (Calculus etc)
Re:Good for basic math (Score:2)
It's nice to have a calculator that fits in a (normal sized) pocket when you know you won't be doing anything too complicated.
Re:Good for basic math (Score:2, Insightful)
Who's taking Partial Differential Equations? You or the calculator?
Re:Good for basic math (Score:3, Informative)
And yet you acted like he was complaining about not being able to use a calculator. Please read the whole comment before firing off a kneejerk reaction.
Re:Good for basic math (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, I don't know about that.
I remember a comment by an engineerring professor when I asked him his opinion of the scientific calculators. His reply: "I'm all for them. Because now, we can concentrate on some REAL math." i.e., the fancier the calculator gets, the more challenging the math and other problems become.
So, is life more easy because you have a fancy scientific calculator? No. The problems just get harder.
Re:Good for basic math (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean really (Score:5, Funny)
The Line Has Been Crossed!!! (Score:5, Funny)
I'm just waiting for that day now when I turn on Tech TV and see the new show "Pimp My Calculator" hosted by Ludicrous and Bruce Schneir!
Re:The Line Has Been Crossed!!! (Score:2)
Then personal computers came out and my technolust transfered to other inamimate objects, but there is something about hearing of the release of a new HP calculator that makes my heart jump. That's why it's on /. Now enough explanation; time to go drool over hardware...
Oh god.... (Score:3, Funny)
Complaints. (Score:5, Informative)
There's been some complaints on the HP newsgroup about a near invisible decimal dot in the display, IIRC. Something to look out for.
And people, this isn't a replacement for the graphing calculators, it's meant to be a competent calculator for people who don't need graphing, and it can be used on tests where the HP49G+ and such are often forbidden.
Re:Complaints. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Complaints. (Score:2, Informative)
I'm not sure why you're replying to me, but yes, the HP calculator division isn't it's former self.
First of all, the HP49G+ use a 75MHZ ARM920T processor on which the Saturn and OS is emulated. The OS is now much faster than the 48-series -- and there's been progress on hacking around the emulation to run software on the underlying ARM directly. Bypassing the emulation makes for potentially very fast software indeed. This potential however is very cool, and as soon as they figure out how to control the di
Re:Complaints. (Score:4, Interesting)
As a Commodore 64 fan, I can only rejoyce at this.
Where can I find any further info on the hardware architecture of this calculator?
Re:Complaints. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Complaints. (Score:3, Insightful)
Other people that give it a fair shake are those that can buy several brands at once. I had a Casio, when it didn't have one feature that I needed, I bought a TI. I haven't gotten anything new in nearly a decade.
RPN is something of a preference thing. I know some people swear by it, I really don't feel I should swap around the my order of thinking just to use a ca
Re:Complaints. (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, the Saturn processor [hpmuseum.org] is a lot more complicated than that. Just about everything in it is a different size:
- 4-bit addressable word size
- variable instruction sizes (very cisc)
- 20-bit address
- four 64-bit registers that can be addressed in a number of ways (example: you can manipulate just the exponent portion of the register, not the mantissa)
- Physically, the HP48 interfaced to 8-bit-wide memory, but this is invisible to the programmer
I'd be tempted to call it a 64-bit processor because that's the register size, but that is a generalization. It is fundamently a low-power design specifically for BCD math.
Well, it finally happened (Score:4, Insightful)
Sometimes I think form should still follow function. But I guess my brain was not destroyed by the rapid MTV editing.
Re:Well, it finally happened (Score:2)
Can this "feature" really be attractive to anybody? I hope nobody thinks they're going to get laid because you can spot their deformed calculator keypad at a glance.
I've had a number of Nokia phones in the past and have been thinking about getting a new one as my last one (6360) has been losing keypad reliability on one side. But these days, my single requirement - a keypad that actually works as a regular keypad seems to mean t
Yup... (Score:2)
Stay Away! (Score:2)
Keypresses dont register, screen flicker, the works.
Why couldnt they have made it like the 48sx?
Re:Stay Away! (Score:5, Insightful)
Because in recent years HP decided to save a bundle of money by decreasing the product quality which is what the HP name was known for. They made up for it with that shiny metallic paint. Some focus group must have preferred it to the staid ABS plastic that was typical of HP stuff. Good thing, too, since it makes it easy to recognize pre-Carly from post-Carly HP products.
I have an HP-28S that I got in 1988 and used through college, and a HP49g+ that I was stupid enough to get in 2000. I know exactly what you're talking about. Once an HP model gets that metallic sheen on it, it's game over.
Re:Stay Away! (Score:2)
Talk about price gauging! (Score:5, Interesting)
The campus bookstore at my college (DTU Denmark) charges
Granted, Denmark has a 25% sales tax. Let's add that and compare: $49.99 * 1.25 = $62.49
I believe the words I'm looking for are "HOLY FUCKING SHIT!"
Good thing I'm not a poor pennyless student
LAME... (Score:5, Insightful)
Jesus Christ, it's 2004. We should have HP48G-looking units with 64MB of RAM, double-high-res colour transflective screens (think GBA), USB ports, AND full backwards-compatibility with all the wonderful HP48[G/GX/S/SX] software out there (think of how the newer Palm devices can run older Palm software), but no, we get this pile of steamed monkey dung...
I guess this is what we can expect from..... Compaq.
Re:LAME... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is just what the doctor ordered for me really. I've been looking for a sub $100 RPN without graphing, and now I've found it.
Re:LAME... (Score:4, Interesting)
-Colin [colingregorypalmer.net]
Re:LAME... (Score:2)
Re:LAME... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:LAME... (Score:2, Funny)
I have a calculator on my palm, but it only supports a 5 digit display.
Re:LAME... (Score:3, Insightful)
It might be faster (no idea if it is, just guessing, CPU speeds have climbed quite a bit in the last ten years), but yep, in all other respects it's obviously nowhere near 48's... Not that it's meant to, but 49's are and they are supposedly crap too.
Jesus Christ, it's 2004. We should have HP48G-looking units with 64MB of RAM, double-high-res colour transflective screens (think GBA), USB ports, AND full backwards-compatib
Re:LAME... (Score:2)
Keep in mind that this calc is useful on tests (including the FE/PE) that ban higher calculators & is useful to lend luddites who you don't want touching your higher power (more expensive)calculators. It is also smaller than the 48/49 series & faster than the 10 series.
Finally, if you want a souped-up 48, try the 49g+. No color, but USB & takes flash cards.
Re:LAME... (Score:2)
AA Batteries? (Score:2, Funny)
RPN! (Score:4, Funny)
I
love
Equals!
Re:RPN! (Score:4, Funny)
Forth [heart] If Honk Then
Re:RPN! (Score:5, Informative)
Example:
4239 * (12382 + 147324) + 2342
in RPN, you would type:
4239 [enter] 12382 [enter] 147324 [+] [*] 2342 [+]
No parens to balance, plus you can see all of the intermediate values (e.g., the result of 12382 + 147324) as you go.
HP still making calcuators? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:HP still making calcuators? (Score:3, Insightful)
Funny, was talking about this yesterday (Score:4, Insightful)
When I was in engineering school, the HP48GX was the calc. Everyone knew RPN, all the circuits students learned quickly how to solve linear algebra rather quickly on the HP. Now I'm the only one with an HP. Everyone, everyone has a TI-89. Symbolics plus nearly everything the HP could do (except RPN), much improved graphing, much improved processor. The new HP calc? Overwhelmingly, reviews have pronounced it crap, both in interface and underlying engineering. (It still uses the same old "Saturn" chip the HP48 series did ten years ago, with a slight speed bump.) Two or three students had never even SEEN an HP calculator.
Is this true everywhere? Has the HP calculator series been relegated to the trash heap? If so, how did HP allow itself to bungle this so badly?
OpenGLFan, whose love of RPN is the only thing attaching himself to his current calculator...
Re:Funny, was talking about this yesterday (Score:2, Informative)
Two words:
Carly. Fiorina.
Re:Funny, was talking about this yesterday (Score:2)
Re:Funny, was talking about this yesterday (Score:2)
Re:Funny, was talking about this yesterday (Score:3, Informative)
This way, the teachers and students are mor
Re:Funny, was talking about this yesterday (Score:2)
install the software for that. However I think that
TI can be beat pretty easily. Their stuff is huge,
bulky, unwieldy, and heavy. Formfactor-wise, you
are almost better off buying one of those tiny
japanese subnotebooks and installing Matlab on it,
or Mathematica, or both.
If HP wants to get in on the calc biz, all they have
to do is duplicate top of the line TI functionality
with a TI-85 width and length but half of TI-85
thickness. I'd pay $200 easy for that.
HP 42s (Score:2, Interesting)
I've seen 'em for sale on e-bay but I don't feel like paying $250.00usd just to get one back, expecially since the only thing I use a calculator for anymore is balancing my checkbook.
The 42s had a lot going for it - I think HP would do well to re-release it, or at least make a new version.
HP is on the drugs (Score:2)
I really want a next-gen hp48 with the same form factor.. but it doesn't seem to be likely. I've thought about surgically removing the keyboard from a hp48 and making a frankendevice with a Palm..
enlarged image (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.hp.com/calculators/images/33s_350x350.
No thanks, I prefer my 11c (Score:2)
http://www.systemrecycler.com/imag0183.jpg [systemrecycler.com]
http://www.systemrecycler.com/imag0182.jpg [systemrecycler.com]
Still works after almost 2o years. Only changed the batteries ONCE and I use the hell out of it.. I wish I still had the original manuals though, the ex threw them out just to be mean..
Re:No thanks, I prefer my 11c (Score:2)
She was probably jealous of the attention you lavish on it instead of her.
nice case (Score:2)
Nasty looking (Score:2, Interesting)
You should use Mozilla (Score:2)
You're using the wrong browser then. HP's "Enlarge image" link only works on Internet Explorer.
48 series still stands unchallenged... (Score:4, Interesting)
Not that this is even meant to be a competitor for 40>, it's supposed to be few steps below, and the reason for "easy learning curve" is obvious, it just does so much less, but still... it's hard to know if those keys are as bad as they look, but apparently they are if fellow posters are correct, and the display sucks as well (in addition to being way too small for lots of things).
Looks like you still need to pry my 48GX from my cold, dead hands.
Hrm... (Score:2)
15C Still rules for programmers (Score:3, Interesting)
No thanks man... if it doesn't have dedicated A-F keys it ain't no programmers calculator.
Re:15C Still rules for programmers (Score:5, Informative)
Re:15C Still rules for programmers (Score:2)
EMACS is still the ultimate IDE.
I like it LOTS (Score:2)
Email jollyleprechaun@yahoo.com [mailto] to trade through ebay.
Everything works. It's a good deal, actually (auction is not actually mine, but similar). [ebay.com]
Comes w/soft case, orig. box, both manuals, batteries, NO MODS to orig. hardware
goodbye karma
Still using a customized HP41CV (Score:4, Insightful)
The 41 was THE calculator in its day. Nothing could come close to its power. The 41 was also one of the few calculators you could truly hack, both the software and the hardware.
obligatory - (Score:5, Funny)
of
cluster
beowulf
imagine
++++
"packing 31K" (Score:5, Funny)
The HP 33s is HP's most advanced, programmable scientific calculator, packing 31 kilobytes of user memory along with the powerful "HP Solve" application into a shirt-pocket-sized unit weighing only 119 grams (4.2 ounces).
Wow, how do they manage to "pack" an entire 31K into something that can fit into your shirt pocket!?! Amazing!
Seriously, I'm sure the calculator is fine, but they really need to find some better marketing people.
HP48 GX was the best ! (Score:3, Insightful)
Then a 48SX and it was really an amazing beast. Not as a calculator but as a geek machine. Programming in assembly language was a breeze. I really loved the Saturn CPU. In fact, I spent a lot of time at school coding on the calculator instead of listening to teachers
Then the HP48GX was out. It rocked. It was twice faster as the HP48SX. More people joined the HP 48 scene, new tricks were found (like using interrupts for grey levels), minitel services were there to share and download code... well... it was just excellent.
-HPdream.
NCEES's calculator bans on FE, PE (Score:3, Informative)
OpenRPN Project (Score:3, Informative)
Don't throw away the 15c (Score:2)
For all of you who complain about rubbery keys... (Score:3, Interesting)
Here's a plausible scenario:
Imagine having to first activate the calculator via a Windows software install. This would, of course, require an Internet connection, so that the latest firmware (2.45, of course, to fix recent problems with totals) could be downloaded to the calc. The firmware, by the by, is 12.85 megabytes. (Well, not _really_ but there's other stuff in there, too, of course.) No Internet? No activation. No calcy.
Oh, and you must register the product, otherwise you won't receive support or updates. And while installing, Share-to-Web, BackWeb, and five other processes will be installed. They'll come up with the next reboot. (That explains the extra 50 seconds added to reboot, anyway.)
*sigh*
RPN for Cluebies? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is there a paper somewhere on why RPN is a Good Thing(TM), and not just "lol teh math is backwardz"? Cuz to the average user, RPN is like "speak like Yoda do I!" It seems pointless to them, and only slows comprehension.
Re:RPN for Cluebies? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:RPN for Cluebies? (Score:4, Insightful)
CPU 6502 (Score:3, Funny)
Does this mean I can boot Apple ][ DOS?
UserFriendly's take on RPN Calculators... (Score:3, Funny)
Check out http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990823
HP Calculator Emulator for PalmOS (Score:4, Informative)
http://power48.mobilevoodoo.com [mobilevoodoo.com]
They look fantastic - an impressive graphics job, and look like they work well to me. Sadly, I'm just a wannabe geek hanging around slashdot to look cool, so I don't actually follow a fraction of what they do.
How sad is that?
6502 processor? (Score:3, Funny)
This thing has a 6502 processor [hp.com]?
Can it run Apple II software?
I just have to ask.
Re:Calculators? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:RPN: Non-Math person, I don't get it (Score:2)