Video Projector for Home Theater? 350
ZeLonewolf writes "I'm thinking about setting up a movie-style home theater system. I've already got the room set up and I've obtained a nice sound system. The last step is to acquire a video projector. I'm considering a few options: Projectors on eBay run from $300 to the tens of thousands. On the other hand, being an electrical engineer, there are plans online to build your own (Google cache), that are potentially as cheap as $200. What are Slashdotters' experiences? Will a $300 projector do the job? How about a home brew?"
Wrong place. (Score:5, Informative)
Get thee over to http://www.avsforum.com [avsforum.com] and you'll find your answers.
Re:Wrong place. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wrong place. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wrong place. (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd go for a cheaper LCD projector with a blurrier picture, but without the nuisance of having to se RGB flashes every time I move my eyes.
Notes on the VPL-HS20 (Score:5, Informative)
But...
I went through three brand new HS20's (all sent back to Sony) before giving up on it. They all suffered from the same problem which was an inconsistent color temperature. For example, with a white screen, the lower left corner was pinkish and the top right was bluish. All three exhibited this behavior. I could get the same effect on a black screen with no inputs, so it was not my input. It seemed like a manufacturing defect with one or more of the panels being "pinched".
Second, the color registration on the three panels was never spot on and it's not adjustable. So the crosshair in the middle of the screen was white, but all the others had blue or red fringes.
Third, I wanted an all digital system. This projector has DVI input which is sweet. Unfortunately, at the native resolution of the panels (16x9 at 1388x768), it only accepts a refresh of 56.6Hz. That means movies show a slight jerkiness since the frame refresh does not sync up with output of the computer. Using a lower resolution results in blurring and scaling of the image inside of the projector which totally negates the point of a pure digital picture (and letting the computer handle scaling, etc). It also makes for a crappy desktop.
Sony also refuses to divulge any info about supported display modes. One support idiot claimed that connecting a PC to the projector via DVI was not supported and could damage the projector or PC. Sometimes Sony's proprietary ways are a little too much to bear.
I owned the previous generation of VPL Sony home theater projectors and they did not exhibit these problems (color and alignemnt). I'm hoping these flaws are fixed because it's an otherwise amazing piece of hardware.
Re:Wrong place. (Score:3, Interesting)
I did notice rainbows for the first couple of weeks when I used it, however I've had it for 2 months now and I very, very rarely notice them anymore. I suppose given enough exposure, I "tuned them out" subconciously like traffic noise, air conditioner hum, etc.
I'm very happy with mine! There's nothing like watching a
Re:Wrong place. (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, and try to find a shop where you can see two projectors in action side-by-side, for comparison. I was sure I was going to buy the Infocus X1 (partly going by the advice on AVSForum. But after comparing a few units, I settled on the NEC VT46, with a much brighter image and significantly less fan noise. The moral of the story is: go see the unit of your choice first before spending your money.
As for buying on Ebay... if you happen to buy a secondhand unit with a bulb nearing its end, that $300 projector may need a $400 bulb replacement soon.
Re:Wrong place. (Score:3, Informative)
Brighter is not necessarily better, especially in a light controlled room like a dedicated home theater room. The Panasonic L500 is getting good reviews from avsforum and other reviewers, but is rated as 800 lumens. One reviewer set it up and after adjusting the aperture for the best picture me
Yep, by far, the X1 is the best entry level (Score:3, Interesting)
What a lot of people don't realize is that it is also better than a lot of the more expensive projectors out there also. It has great contrast and the colors look superb. What this long throw projector lacks in some people's eyes is its resolution: 800x600 . But guess what, unless you're watching HD signals (720p/1080i/p) , you won't notice a thing. Sure you might not get a great picture when you hoo
Re:Wrong place. (Score:2, Interesting)
Last fall I bought an Infocus X1 and love it. I built a 16x9 "screen" using blackout cloth (again, AVS Forum for plans) and rarely go to the movies any more. I have a ~100" diagonal screen and things look phenomenal.
Some people will warn of rainbows with a lower end DLP projector; no one who has seen mine has had a problem, but it'd be worth checking out first. There are also sub-$1000 LCD projectors to be had.
Anways, for the 3rd time go to avsforum (:
Re:Wrong place. (Score:5, Informative)
This site is really good. I used to have an old Microtek MVP 700s. It was not so good. The contrast was bad. The color was off, and it had loud fans. I went to the under 3500 forum and read up on the posts. Tons of people were raving about how great the InFocus X1 was. I researched it, and ended up buying one for about $800. It's fantastic! Looks great, nice and bright, quite quiet...
Ask elsewhere for better info... (Score:5, Insightful)
The "homebrew" ones are a joke if you want something with a decent picture. And the contraption itself looks riduculous. Forget it.
There is a good deal on a refurbed DLP projector for about $3500 -- check gotapex.com [gotapex.com] (great site for deals). Read around for more info on what DLP is, but that and LCD are preferable to CRT projectors these days.
Anyway, you're more likely to get better information from someplace that deals directly with home theater equipment. The forum at Home Theater Spot [hometheaterspot.com] has great information, despite their gestapo posting rules.
I have a friend who did this. (Score:3, Informative)
I've seen it, BTW, and I think it's not worth it to spend more. But check it out for yourself at various AV stores.
Obligatory penny-arcade ripoff (Score:5, Funny)
"Oh yeah? My picture is awesome, since it's framed by $28,000 dollars in cash."
Re:Ask elsewhere for better info... (Score:2, Funny)
You scared the crap out of me. I first read that as goatsex.com.
Re:Ask elsewhere for better info... (Score:2)
egads! A $600 DLP projector on ebay will give you a very reasonable picture. If you don't want or need the ultimate, check out any of the
Read around for more info on what DLP is, but that and LCD are preferable to CRT projectors these days.
Well, DLP and LCD are "preferable" if space and convenience is more of an issue than absolute picture quality. If you want the best picture for your money, then CRT is the ONLY way to go. Even tho
Re:Ask elsewhere for better info... (Score:2, Informative)
Of course, CRT projectors are huge, expensive, and require lots of calibration to keep them in shape. But if cost and space are no object, CRT is certainly preferable.
Re:Ask elsewhere for better info... (Score:5, Informative)
CRT projectors run 7500-10,000 hrs on a set of guns, which at retail isn't that different for the nice ones, but used they're a much better bargain over a long period of time. Plus a good CRT projector has an infinitely better picture than an LCD/DMD, though all a capable of far exceeding the data avialable in a NTSC image.
Some details though:
DMD/LCD projectors generally have square pixels, so you get 640x480, or more likely you scale by a non-integer and get a blurry picture (it's probably still far better than a regular TV, so the blurring may be irrelevant). CRTs don't quantify the scan lines into pixels and are therefore "better" with analog TV. Digital TV is another beast, but typically also uses non-square pixels (eg D1 720x480) which inexpensive DMD/LCD projectors still can't deal with except by scaling.
I find DMD projectors "harsh". Others might call it "crisp." It doesn't look good to me. LCDs look better, but are a bit muddy. A good CRT projector looks great. But they're HUGE, and expensive, so... LCD or DMD projectors are probably the way to go in practice, just be aware of the operating cost. Figure out which models meet your requirements, figure out the purchase price, and add pro-rated bulb cost and see if it's still a good deal. Bulb prices vary a lot by projectors, but in general don't buy something brighter than you need, or you'll be paying for it as long as you own it.
Re:Ask elsewhere for better info... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ask elsewhere for better info... (Score:3, Interesting)
You get what you pay for. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:You get what you pay for. (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course image quality is subjective, and there are endless other factors to consider like room lighting, room size, and so-forth.
I never watch videos in daylight hours and I never watch broadcast TV at all, so the decision was easier. But depending on the room it can be quite cheap to control the light with some blackout cloth.
I also didn't want an enormous box in the room. The projector is very discrete and not in the way of anything. With young children it's almost impossible to make it to a theater any more, but with a beautiful projection on a 100" screen I don't feel the need to.
McFly? (Score:5, Funny)
The $300 model is more than good enough (Score:2, Funny)
No brainer (Score:2, Interesting)
DIY though?? I don't see that happening for some reason?
Re:No brainer (Score:3, Informative)
Hmm, e-bay (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Hmm, e-bay (Score:2, Informative)
Durn... alternate site? (Score:4, Informative)
Anybody have an alternate site? I found this one [audiovisualizers.com] on google.
Re:Durn... alternate site? (Score:2)
Tough (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Tough (Score:3, Interesting)
A homebrew design should be able to get much higher res
Bulbs (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Bulbs (Score:2, Informative)
The projectors I've used had bulbs that varied between $500 and $1,000 When I check a local high-end hi-def projector store in Phoenix last year, the top system's bulbs were about $3,000 to replace (Though a better deal could be found on the Internet).
Arm yourself wit
Re:Bulbs (Score:2, Informative)
Most bulbs slowly decline in brightness over the span of its lifetime, so your 1200 lumen projector (or whatever its starting spec was) will slowly get dimmer and dimmer before the bulb fails completely.
Re:Bulbs (Score:5, Informative)
Movie from blockbuster = $3 / 2 hours = $1.50/hour
Bulb costs are swamped by content costs.
Re:Bulbs (Score:3, Insightful)
I have my X1 for watching movies and playing (big) games on, however when I just want to watch the news, or regular TV, I have a small 27" screen that I switch the input to.
Works great and saves the bulb!
Of course, the X1 bulb is rated at 4,000 hours, and only costs around $250-300 as I recall, so it's not too terrible. It should last me around 6 or 7 years with the amount that I use it, by
DLP: Bright, clear, and did I mention bright? (Score:5, Insightful)
My father in law works at Texas Instruments and got ahold of one of those DLP projectors. Holy moly, that thing looks GREAT. We watched Two Towers on it, and he had put up a simple white sheet on the wall to watch the movie on. It looked very nice, like a smaller movie projection. Colors are extremely bright; I'd been so used to projectors losing brightness proportional to their distance that the brightness of this thing took me by surprise.
Plus those DLP chips are just so freakin' cool.
Re:DLP: Bright, clear, and did I mention bright? (Score:5, Funny)
I'd be pretty surprised if any projector, DLP or otherwise, did not decrease in intensity as the inverse square of the distance.
-Isaac
Re:DLP: Bright, clear, and did I mention bright? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:DLP: Bright, clear, and did I mention bright? (Score:4, Interesting)
I watched two towers at my universities planetarium. It already had a great projector, we simply hooked up a DVD player to the unit.
Yeah, I think they spent well over 2 mil on the setup, but what's the point in having something if you can't abuse it?
Labtech's are handy creatures to keep around.
Re:DLP: Bright, clear, and did I mention bright? (Score:2)
I have compared a few DLP and LCD units, and while the contrast and color of the DLPs beat the LCDs, the image of the LCDs was brighter than the DLPs with similarly powerful bulbs (no, I don't know here the DLPs leave the 'extra' light :-). To achieve the same brightness, a DLP will require a brighter bulb, which means extra $$$ and fan noise. But... if you do fork over
Some Warnings About DLP (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Screen door?? (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, it will affect both. Since both systems are pixel based, you can see the little squares that make up the image. DLP is less affected by it, as seen at this link [projectorpoint.co.uk].
Epson S1 gets the job done (Score:3, Informative)
This might help (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.projectorcentral.com [projectorcentral.com]
"Movie-like?" (Score:3, Funny)
ProjectorCentral has reviews, FAQs, etc. (Score:4, Informative)
ProjectorCentral [projectorcentral.com]
I've thought about this, and I wouldn't build my own for the same reason I won't put a DVR computer near my TV -- the fan noise and the esthetics.
Similar question...how to get longer bulb life? (Score:5, Interesting)
Currently, we use a lot of old NEC 29" monitors which haven't been made in 10 years and are going away for good. I've talked about replacing them with rear-projection systems, by putting a cloth or plastic across the opening for the CRT and parking a projector behind it to display.
There's just one problem...virtually every projector under the sun measures bulb life in "hundreds of hours". At $300/ea this is not going to work as a monitoring display. Plus, we can't really turn them off because if someone needs to look at it, you apparently can't just turn them back on until the cooldown cycle has finished.
What's the solution here? Is there any way possible to use standard (read low cost) lighting in a projection system? I think these bulbs must be so costly and delicate because they have to fit in a tiny projection unit. If size/portability isn't an issue...what other options are there?
Could I get a couple of 150watt incandenscent bulbs, throw them through a polarizing filter and shine them through, say a gutted laptop display? I seem to remember that back in the beginning of time (the early 90s) the only way to do LCD projection was to lay some kind of LCD panel over an existing off-the-shelf overhead projector. Do they still make these things? Can they be modified to work with other light sources (given that overhead projector bulbs are no bargain either)
This also has to do with the home theater question, because if you watch a lot of movies or TV shows, you're going to find youself using a bulb or two each year and that's not cheap.
- JoeShmoe
.
Incorrect... (Score:4, Informative)
Most new consumer projectors will have bulb lives of around 3000 hours. Many also feature low pressure bulbs that can be replaced for around $200. Are you sure you've researched this at all?
This also has to do with the home theater question, because if you watch a lot of movies or TV shows, you're going to find youself using a bulb or two each year and that's not cheap.
Again, this is overstated. If you used your projector for 4 hours a day (and I don't know anyone who would do this), one bulb would last about two years in most new consumer projectors.
If you're the kind of person who watches more than 4 hours of TV a day, I indeed wouldn't recommend a projector. I'd recommend surgery.
Can they be modified to work with other light sources (given that overhead projector bulbs are no bargain either)
There's a reason projectors (overhead or video) use fancy bulbs. They need lots of brightness and even lighting. There's probably lots of options available if you're willing to have a horrible picture - but I think I'd prefer to spend $100 a year on bulbs (assuming 4hr/day use).
Re:Incorrect... (Score:4, Informative)
Dell 2100MP = 2000 hours = $379.98/bulb. That's an example of a consumer ranged projector. Maybe Dell is doing the "cheap razor, expensive blades" thing, but they certainly aren't alone. I'd love to hear an example of a projector with replacement bulbs that cost less than $200, although if the projector itself costs $6000 that may explain something.
If you used your projector for 4 hours a day (and I don't know anyone who would do this), one bulb would last about two years
Okay, so 20 hundred hours is technically two thousand, but...compare that to the 20000 hours you'll get from a fluorescent light source. Halogens (which I think is what these projectors use) run hot, and can be very delicate. I think they even have long-life incandesents that last 5000 or so.
I doubt, serious doubt, that most people are going to get full life expectancy from their projection bulbs. Why else would they only be waranteed for 90 days when the projector itself is waranteed for a year or more? Maybe turning them on and off is stressful on the bulbs...in which case, are you going to get full life in any real world scenario?
I'd like for someone to point out some real world data on bulb life before they make the blanket statement that someone trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a projection system for his home shouldn't worry about blowing the money saved the first year for a new bulb.
There's a reason projectors (overhead or video) use fancy bulbs. They need lots of brightness and even lighting.
My living room needs a lot of brightness and lighting. My car needs a lot of brightness and lighting. But I don't pay $200/bulb to keep either supplied. As I said, I think a significant portion of the cost is that they need a small package. I can buy a 500Watt halogen for my floor standing torch lamp for what...$20? That's got to be just about as bright as whatever's in your average consumer projector. So why does it cost $20 in a lamp and $200 in a projector. The bulb isn't doing anything technological! It's a light source, period.
So, explain why I can't use a cheaper light source that is just as bright if I don't need it necessarily to fit into a itty bitty plastic case?
- JoeShmoe
.
Re:Incorrect... (Score:4, Informative)
This is so completely uninformed it is reduculous. Its clear you have not actually researched the issue. There is a HUGE difference between your $20 floor lamp bulb and a projector bulb. There is quite a bit of engineering that goes into making projector bulbs because thay need a very specific spectra of output. Your floor lamp does not put out anything close to 6500k light (video standard). Put your lamp bulb in a projector and you will have a projector that will be impossible to calibrate to any sort of decent color balance.
Re:Incorrect... (Score:3)
Hell, my LCD monitor giv
Re:Incorrect... (Score:3, Informative)
So you only need to project 16 colors, do you really thing there is ANY market for a projector like that? Generally speaking a projector is going to cost at least $1000 or so, why would you spend that kind of money and put a cheap ass bulb in it that can't produce a good image?
I never said the world was "married" to 6500k, only that is the video standard and most projectors at
Re:Incorrect... (Score:4, Insightful)
Really? OK, maybe his analogy ($20 for a 500w floor lamp bulb) which makes the projector bulb only 10x to 20x as expensive. But if he really pays anywhere near $20 for a simple 500w halogen bulb, he is getting taken.
In reality, I buy 500w halogen bulbs for less than $1/ea, and they put out visually the same color of light as the $5-$10 GE bulbs and seem to last about the same hours (usually physical shock takes them out before the wear out). So you are telling me that something justifies 200x to 400x the price, which seems to be the typical range for the mid-grade LCD and DLP projectors? Or do you think 20x to 40x is justified, and the other 10x is just an "inflated" price?
Given the science of light color in a halogen bulb, I find it nearly impossible to imagine any justification for a 200x to 400x price delta even if 10x or 100x of it was inflation. A halogen light isn't rocket science, is it? It wasn't when I was taking my stage lighting classes 20+ years ago...
The bulb envelope must be quartz to withstand the heat, and the color of that quartz filters the color of light from the filament. The temperature of the filament determines the color it produces, and that temperature is primarily determined by the available current at the applied voltage. The halogen in the envelope helps the evaporating tungsten from the filament deposit back onto the filament instead of onto the envelope, but it isn't 100% effective so the envelope gradually darkens, and the filament develops a thin spot, and that leads to the death of the bulb.
I wonder how much it would add to the cost of the projector to use a little sensor to detect the color of the light, and a bit of active control to adjust the current thru the filament to change the temperature?
Of course it couldn't compensate 100% for flaws in a cheap bulb or the effects of bulb wear, but surely with $200 to $400 to play with, it could do a lot.
sdb
Re:Incorrect... (Score:5, Informative)
That isn't the issue either.
Flat panel fluorescent backlights and other technologies put out uniform light with great color balance. Furthermore, filters can be used to shape the source and adjust color balance.
The issue is the compactness (light source density) being high enough yet proportionately sized with respect to the projecting and condensing lenses and the LCD/DLP imaging element. A big projector can use a bigger, cheaper light bulb given the same desired screen size.
Answers: (Score:3, Informative)
The lamp for my Epson S1 (which cost $900) is $199 at FocusedTechnology. This lamp is rated for 2000 hours, but reports I've heard suggest this is conservative - and that the bulb will last longer if well ventilated. I wouldn't buy a Dell, although I haven't looked a bunch at their offerings.
So, explain why I can't use a cheaper light source that is just as bright if I don't need it necessarily to fit into a itty
... obnoxious (Score:3, Flamebait)
The fella asks a perfectly legitimate question: What about projection displays in 24/7 environments like network centers? He then points out that perfection isn't required for this, it's a "good-enough" non-videophile situation.
You then get all supercilious about his even having the temerity to ask such a question, and downright rude about folks who might watch lots of TV. You cap it off with an obvious comment on bulb quality, again, after the poster pointed out quality wasn't an is
Re:Similar question...how to get longer bulb life? (Score:2)
You can get LCD projectors for less than $1000 (800x600, which is good enough)
Once you go beyond 20" in the LCD realm, the price/size ratio seems to jump sharply and every extra inch throws several hundreds of dol
Ebay can be expensive.... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ebay can be expensive.... (Score:3, Insightful)
To put it in perspective, it might be helpful to compare the Z2 to the Sharp XV-Z9000. That DLP unit came out two years ago at a price of $11,000 and was heralded as an outstanding achievement. Like the Z2 it had 1280x720 resolution and an 800 ANSI lumen rating. And at the time people were blown away by the Z9000's dazzling contrast--rated at 1100:1. The fact i
HDTV is key (Score:5, Informative)
google cache (Score:3, Informative)
Doesn't appear the site has anything useful anyway. I'd say go with a $500 - ~1k$ unit, if you can afford it. They seem to be of high enough quality for my liking, and should be able to get a good enough picture at a sufficient resolution for anyone but the most anal.
my $2000 basement home theater (Score:5, Informative)
wanted an ht in my basement, where i can control the ambient light well.
so I bought myself the sanyo plv-z1. vga/s-video/component inputs. decent brightness, contrast and resolution (yes, it supports hd). $1200 plus it came with a free 92" diag 16:9 screen.
put another $800 into some very decent mid-range speakers and a/v receiver. now I've got the coolest home theater setup that most of my friends and neighbors have ever seen.
everyone thinks i spent close to $10k, and their already dropped jaws hit the floor when i tell them it was 1/5th of that.
also, a great resource for projector info can be found at http://www.projectorcentral.com.
Depends on your tastes (Score:5, Informative)
You also need to worry about lumens depending on how dark your room is, lamp lifetime and cost, use for main TV or just a movie projector, fan noise, etc.
I would suggest a high lumen, 1024x768 projector with a widescreen native lens. If you need HD and are concerned about image quality, go for the 1280 res ones. The jump in price is enormous, but you don't have to worry about scaling, and less worry about widescreen native lens.
Re:Depends on your tastes (Score:2, Informative)
1280x768 will cover 720p (1280x720), but not 1080i. Just something to keep aware of.
Get an entry-level projector... (Score:5, Interesting)
Despite what videophile reviewers or salespeople will say, these entry-level projectors create a very impressive picture under any reasonable lighting conditions. And if you can't make your room reasonably dark (ie. reading should be uncomfortable) then you shouldn't be getting a projector.
I have an Epson Powerlite S1 ($900 US) in my basement theatre. Nobody that has seen it has been anything other than extremely impressed with the picture - even my brother who has a $12000 projector. Admittedly the picture isn't perfect in a videophile sense (and there's no optical zoom, so you'll want to measure things out) - but it is really very good (and as big as my wall would allow - about 11' diagonal). I'm projecting onto matte white paint. Again, it works just fine. I use my computer in there, play GameCube, watch movies - it's just really great.
Unless you're looking to spend a fair bit more than $900, you won't get something nearly as good as one of these two. You could try used, but I doubt you'll find as good a deal.
A homemade projector will NOT do the job (Score:5, Informative)
Front projection has a big gotcha. Notice how white your screen is? That's as black as the projected image can ever be. Any stray light really messes up the contrast.
Rear projection can provide much better contrast, but the systems are much larger and heavier.
Homebrew sounds great (Score:3)
DLP's start at $1500ish.. (Score:2, Informative)
I would suggest demo'ing whatever you go with,
Ongoing costs and daytime viewing (Score:5, Informative)
The first is the ongoing cost of maintenance. With any projection device, you'll need to occasionally replace the bulb - in many cases, this works out to a new bulb every 500-1000 hours. For my InFocus LP330, new bulbs cost me $150-200 each.
The second point is daytime viewing. Light output of projectors is measured in lumens, with the higher the number representing higher light output. For daytime viewing, anything under 1000 lumens is essentially useless in all but the darkest of rooms. A good, reflective screen will help a bit, but if you're planning to put the projector in a room that gets a lot of sunlight, you'll want to either invest in a brighter projector or some black-out drapes for the room. The latter option may be less expensive.
.........pssssst (Score:2, Funny)
Seriously, has anyone ever bought one of those "fresnel lens kits" off ebay? You can post anonymously to tell us about it.
Ok quality from homebrew (Score:2, Informative)
Buy, don't build (Score:2, Informative)
I recommend scouring ebay-- take your time-- for a good deal on a projector manufactured in the last year or two. They retail at about a grand to start, so $300-500 on ebay should be possible.
Results of my search (Score:5, Informative)
BTW, on the subject of games - playing on one of these is videogame ecstasy. Definitely plan to invest in wireless controllers for each of your consoles.
What I use (Score:2, Interesting)
Just bought mine... (Score:2)
This projector has been on the top of most folks most recommended list for the past year or so. You can look it up on the avs forums. [avsforum.com]
They listed for 4995 originally (and that was a blow out price for the performance of the projector). But it is currently being phased out, and can be purchased at really good prices but they are extremely limited. Many home theater p
fun for mame? (Score:2, Funny)
=)
e.
A quick breakdown (Score:5, Informative)
I would not suggest rolling a DIY projector, you will get much higher quality image from a basic manufactured unit. Entry level is around $1000 at the moment, a couple thousand for a native HD unit. (You can find cheaper stuff in the used market).
There are four primary technologies being used in frong projecttion right now:
LCD - Cheap, but generally considered a good value. Lower contrast and more screendoor than other technologies, but can still look pretty good. You can get a nice 1280x720 (720p) LCD projector for about $2000. Check out the Panasonic AE500 or the Sanyo Z2. Sony's HS20 is also nice for a little more money. Lesser expensive LCDs are available but generally throw relatively poor images (IMHO).
DLP - Very popular right now. Generally provides a better picture than LCD. Limited to 720p for now. A true 16x9 HD DLP projector will run you more than an LCD. Probably looking at at around $4000 minimum to over $10000. The BenQ 8700 is a GREAT value at the moment. Lower priced DLPs are also available, all the way to $999 for the InFocus X1. These lower priced DLPs are generally not high-def and most 4x3, instead of 16x9. Use of an anamorphic lense can turn them into native 16x9 projectors, but adds cost and complexity.
DLPs have the best contrast of current consumer projectors by a good margin. One thing to be carful of is that a some of people see rainbows or get headaches when watching DLPs. This is less of an issue on newer models with a faster color wheel, but may be an issue on less expensive models. Check out brands like BenQ, InFocus, NEC, Marantz, Dwin, Sim2 for good DLP projectors.
LCOS - This is the technology of choice for JVC. It has lower contrast than DLP but throws a smoother image due to its higher fill-factor. Its often described as very "film-like". Can support higher resolutions than DLP for now. A lot of the current LCOS projectors are large and not very user friendly. There are some more players entering the LCOS market, including Sony, with a native 1080p device, but it quite expensive. I'm not quite as up-to-date on LCOS projectors as DLP and LCD, but its worth a look.
CRT - The grandaddy of projection. CRT can throw a wonderful image, altough digitals are catching up quickly. Manufacturers aren't really making them anymore so most are found in the used market. They are big, HEAVY, and require lot s of maintenence. They are also generally dimmer than digitals.
My Experiences (Score:2, Informative)
Some tips... (Score:5, Informative)
1. Get as much native resolution as you can, at least 1024 x 768.
2. Don't get too crazy with lumens. The people who do installs say most projectors need between 600 and 800 lumens. The lower the lumens, the longer the bulb lasts.
3. Make sure you buy one for the appropriate use. Some projectors are designed for conference rooms, so they are designed to make an image that doesn't change, much, look good. Some projectors are designed for home theaters, so their video processors are designed for constantly changing images.
4. Inputs, Inputs, Inputs! Get one that has Component video-in plugs(not goofy adapters), S-Video, VGA, and DVI(it's becoming the standard video output). Also, make sure it supports progressive scan and 16:9 aspect ratio(almost all do).
5. Get the best screen you can afford(see #8). I recommend either Da-Lite or Stewart.
6. Cover any/all windows/light sources. The more ambient light, the more washed out the picture.
7. Once you have it, buy a color calibration CD. It's a lot cheaper than having a professional come in and calibrate it, and you get great results.
8. Make sure your room is big enough. The first row of seating(e.g. couch) should be no closer than 1.6 times the diagonal measurement of the screen. Any closer and you see every pixel(commonly called the "screen door effect").
Also, someone mentioned rear projection. Don't go that way. Rear projection screens are almost 10x more expensive, and, since they are glass, are known to "prism" the image(the image changes as you get to more extreme viewing angles...with the light actualy being like from a prism).
I have a projector (Score:5, Informative)
I paid $1750 to Dell for the projector. It's a DLP rated at 1200 lumens, and with a native resolution of 1024x768, which is enough to play widescreen DVDs at 576p (which is better than DVDs put out) without "compression".
Be careful with eBay projectors. The lamps cost a pretty penny (Like 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of the projector), and the used ones may not have much lamp life left.
Also: be sure that your lifestyle fits a projector. The room needs to be dark (with my setup at least). You can't watch a movie and do something with your hands, like my wife sometimes does, without a desk lamp, and that affects the projector's image quality.
I imagine that a screen will help a lot, but I'm not there yet. I'll probably buy something inexpensive from Draper in the next few months.
things to consider (Score:3, Informative)
If you're only interested in regular video, not computer projection or HDTV, the resolution of the projector is a red herring. If not, get a 1024x768 res unit.
Most people seem to think DLP style projectors have a better video image and LCD style projectors have a better computer image. LCD styles have a very high black level (a black image is dark gray on the screen) whereas DLP have a nice black. Again, this is more important for video than computer images. Just remember a good LCD projector is going to look better than a fair DLP projector no matter what, so use your eyes when shopping.
Don't get anything with less than 1000 lumens brightness. Around 1500 is probably OK for up to a 5' wide screen if you don't keep the lights up too high. Much more than 2000 is probably wasted unless you have a very big screen or want to use it somewhere in addition to your living room.
HDTV is hard to figure out. Many projectors say they handle it, but it's usually scan converted down inside the projector since 1080i is a bit over 1900 pixels wide and even 720p is 1280 pixels wide, so unless you have at least a 1280x1024 projector, the whole HDTV thing is a little bit of a sales con. If HD is important to you, you should look at the higher resolution units. As I said, look at it in the store. If it looks good to you, that's all that matters.
Good luck, I wish I could afford one
I bought a SHARP PG-A10x (Score:3, Informative)
This is what I was looking for when I started shopping:
1) multiple inputs ( s-video, rca video, vga ) I did component input via a component to vga cable (bought 75' online whereas the official sharp cable was $50 for 15' of cable.
2) Small ( not enough room in our family room for a big LCD TV, plus the room is on the 2nd floor. )
3) Support for HDTV resolutions ( i just use 480p for DVD movies now )
4) under $1500 - i didn't want to spend more because of the cost of bulbs. Still, factoring in that I'll replace the bulb in a couple of years I've still spent less than a decent LCD tv. Also, I had to budget for buying a home theatre receiver and speakers.
We don't use the projector for everyday tv watching, but its AWESOME to throw up a huge image across the wall for movies and video games (mario kart & rogue squadron ).
Product Info ( i don't work for sharp, own their stock, I just bought the projector):
http://www.sharpusa.com/products/Mod
Insurance Chasing (Score:4, Informative)
Of course, you have to keep your ear to the ground...
I'd go for a Panasonic PT-L500U or Sanyo PLV-Z2 (Score:2)
I would go for either the Panasonic PT-L500U [projectorcentral.com] or the Sanyo PLV-Z2 [projectorcentral.com]. Both use the same Epson LCD, so they're fairly similar. They run at at 1280x720, which gives you HD resolution (full 720p widescreen or resized 1080i).
And, they both include DVI HDCP which means that you can have a full end-to-end digital connection from your DVD player to your projector (just make sure you get a DVD player that suports DVI (such as the Bravo D1 [projectorcentral.com]).
They have differing list prices but both sell for around $2000 each (plus yo
Bulb life shouldn't be a problem for most people (Score:5, Insightful)
The bulb life on my Sony VPL-HS20 is 3000 hours in "cinema mode". I figure that with my schedule I won't be able to watch more than 1 hour per day (aside from an occasional LOR marathon). So that gives me a whooping 3,000 days before bulb goes caput. That's over 8 friggin' years! I figure that in eight years technology will advance so far that instead of spending $$$ on a new bulb I'll get a new projector or whatever the imaging device de la creme will be. (300dpi wall-to-wall imaging nanopaper, anyone?)
As for people saying that projectors are expesnive, I have to disagree. I get an eyepopping 120" diag. image for under $3K. Even if plasma screen of this size existed, it would probably cost over $100K. Of course, a nice Home Theater PC that is hooked up to the projector through DVI and an excellent 120" sceeen from Carada.com cost me an extra 1.5K, it is still a bargain. The only drawback is that the room has to be relatively dark, but this is not a problem in my case because it is in the basement.
A family example (Score:5, Informative)
My uncle is a movie-techno-geek from a long way back, and recently set up just such a system. He found two things that needed adjusting.
The first was that these projectors are designed for computer presentations in large rooms, so the light was ridiculously bright for DVDs and such in a home theater. Solution: a neutral density filter between the optics and the screen.
The second was that the colour temperature was much too high (too blue). Solution: a warming filter. It's a very pale rose pink colour. People don't look like aliens anymore.
The results are striking. I'm tempted myself.
...laura
The facts in a few paragraphs (Score:3, Informative)
LCD and DLP projectors are compact, lightweight, and portable. Bright images from a small unit. Bulb costs are high, and the color intensity changes with the bulb life. Fixed resolution for the panels, there are widescreen units availible. Screen cannot do true black, there is always illumination even when the screen is "black"
CRT projectors are bulky, a pain in the ass to setup (you have to converge all 3 guns together). The 1278Q can do 1280x1024 I believe, but I run it from a HTPC @ 1024x768. Mine generates some noise, I could take efforts to silence it but it doesn't bother me.
CRT life can hit 8000 hours, the blue is the first to go. Static images burn in on CRT projectors, DLP/LCD don't suffer from this issue. CRT can do true black, all power to guns is cut and the screen is dark. CRT's are also known to have a hotness in the color when there is just a tiny bit, that is if there is just a little bit of red then it will be over-emphasised a bit because it takes a certain amount of power to fire the CRT (I haven't noticed this, this is from what I've read).
The CRT projector prices are falling, BUT ****BEWARE**** because many of the units on the surplus market are from corporate use, where they have been abused. Windows NT login splash burned into the display, etc. Be careful about this!!! There are hour counters on CRT projectors, mine had about 2200 hours on it when I bought it. I noticed some 4:3 browning but it didn't have any effect as it was outside of my projection area.
There is a bit more info on my web page above.
People balk at the size of my projector and start to talk about something they saw at SAMS club for xyz. There is much more to it than just point and shoot.
be extremely careful about lighting (Score:3, Informative)
Things I've seen, things I've done... (Score:3, Interesting)
Myself, I picked up Fujix P401 Mini Projector a long while back. I had to get it fixed, but it works great now. No bigger than a couple of stacked VHS tapes. Unfortunately, the bulbs are very hard to obtain (6 volt), and the resolution is very poor (320 x 200 or something). But it looks OK if you keep the screen size down (below 50" diagonal), and games play OK on it. I found that a shower curtain works OK for a screen, if you can get all of the wrinkles out. But what works fabulous for a screen, comes in a variety of sizes, rolls up, and is very cheap - is a blackout blind! I bought mine from Home Depot, I think I spent $15.00 or so on it. I think it was 60 inches wide or so. Mounted it to the ceiling, and it can pull down, lock, then pull and retract away. Very smooth surface, white and reflective. Not as good as a Da Lite, but much cheaper!
For a screen, look into getting a Da Lite. One thing to do is go to garage sales (tag sales), and see if you can find a foldable slide projector screen. If you can get a good silver one, with little or no damage (an old Da Lite, for instance) - don't pay more than $20.00 (I have seen them for much, much less) - and you will have a great screen.
As far as homebrew projectors are concerned: ask yourself what is more important, a good viewing experience, or the quest to build your own projector? I have no doubt that a homebrew projector could be built, that works great and is cheap. Maybe not as good output as a real projector (though a gutted 15-17" LCD monitor laid on an overhead projector would look nice), but acceptable. If you are looking to give a good movie-like experience, crisp and bright - stick to a bought projector. Your eyes and your guests will thank you.
Oh - one more thing. Those 100 inch TV plans you see - while not a scam (it is possible to get an OK picture), I wouldn't bother with them other than to play or as a "party trick" (ie, an "Acid Warp" display - for those old schoolers who know what I mean)...
Infocus X1 vs. BenQ 6100? (Score:3, Informative)
I would be using it for weekly film nights (VHS/DVD), and occasionally for video art installations. I'm not concerned with HDTV, PC resolution, etc. I'm really wondering if there's some problem I'm not considering (fan noise? Lens quality?). Price is my main concern - I wouldn't even by considering one if they weren't in the $800-850 range.
Any advice would be helpful!
16:9 or 4:3? (and some advice) (Score:3, Informative)
The biggest decision you should make about getting a projector is not the technology behind it (because honestly, at the consumer level, it's all about the same). What you do want to ask yourself is do you want a 16:9 (widescreen) or a 4:3 native.
Of course, you can display either one on any projector, but only one natively. If you pretty much only watch TV, 4:3 would be OK. But I would still ask you to consider 16:9 due to HDTV formats. If you only watch movies, or a mixture of the 2 (plus video games!), 16:9 is the way to go (so that leaves the X1 out of the picture).
16:9 also has some other benefits. You can get a larger maximum picture with a cheaper screen, since most screens are limited by the height (since cloth is width limited, which = height when put up on the wall). You also loose less resolution when watching normal 4:3 TV (which is somewhat a moot point since normal TV looks pretty crappy when it's 100" diagonal).
I myself have the Panasonic LT-300U. DVD's actually start looking crappy compared to HDTV on my projector. And XBox is pretty sweet when you play in HDTV mode.
One last word of advice: Make your own mount (if you're mounting from the ceiling). Don't bother to pay $200+ for a hunk of steel when you can make a better one for only $40. Just get a nylon cutting board, some ABS pipe, screws, springs and some nice black matte paint. Save yourself a bunch of cash for that HDTV convertor, and it'll be far more adjustable than the OEM one.
It's *really* amazing to see how things have gotten cheaper in the last 5 years. My home theater only cost $2000, and I don't bother going to the theaters anymore.
16:9 is not an obvious choice (Score:3, Informative)
Personally, I prefer a big 4:3 screen. Here's why. I want to watch widescreen movies in their widescreen glory, no doubt about it. So I have a 4:3 screen that is wide enough to give me the 16:9 display I want, which in my theater is 8 feet wide.
From one EE to another (Score:3, Insightful)
Do I want to HAVE it, or do I want to BUILD it.
Saved myself a lot of work that way.
CRT all the way... (Score:3, Interesting)
CRTs provide beautiful picture, some even do true HD resolutions. All razor sharp image without pixels.
Thing is, the picture is not as bright as that provided by modern DLP or LCD projectors, which is why you need the light controlled environment.
Also, CRT projectors weigh a ton
But the reward is amazing picture quality for your home theater with an amazing viewing experience for not a whole lot of money. Also, there's a healthy online community of CRT enthusiasts as nerdy and helpful as HAMs and vinyl freaks.
I have a 12 year old projector which paints a lovely 140" 720p 16x9 image on the screen which has the surface area of about nine 42" plasma TVs. I paid about $500 for it including all parts and peripherals. It weighs 135 lbs and I'm going to ceiling mount it directly above my viewing position in my home theater.
Toshiba TLP S30 (Score:3, Informative)
I may have spent too much - maybe I could have gone with one of these $300 projectors. I didn't know there were $300 projectors at the time.
I keep my projector about 8-10 feet from a wall, used paper from an artstore to line the wall. You could guess I'm not an A/V nut. I used an old pair of powered computer speakers w/ subwoof that is plenty good enough for me. I have no idea what the ratings are, and the speakers are placed behind me when I watch movies - which one person found a little strange. I have the speakers facing at the back wall, and it doesn't bother me one bit that the sound doesn't come from the wall - either I don't notice it, or it does end up coming from the screen-wall enough that I don't care. My cats consantly knock over the speakers and I don't even bother to pick them up.. so my advice on audio should be taken with a grain of salt; though I am a musician, if that means anything.
At 8-10 feet the image is about 8' diagonally. Wide screen, full screen, computer screen, whatever - doesn't matter it looks good. I would work off of it as a desktop to work with apps - but I loaded Warcraft 3 on the laptop and it looked great. Actually - I think Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast looks better than Soul Calibur 2 on XBox, on the projector.
Maybe the novelty hasn't worn off yet - but I think this is one of the best purchases I've made. It turns every crappy game and crappy movie into something decent - because hey - it's freakin huge!
Re:Slashdotted (Score:3, Funny)
C'mon, if the parent deserves +3 informative, so do I!
Re:Bulbs (Score:3, Informative)
The other math - Infocus X1 $999 at Best Buy, $250 for a bulb - to equal the cost of my 57" HDTV means even at even 1 bulb per year I'll get 5 years out of the Infocus to equal the $2400 for my TV. I figure before 5 years is up something on that big screen is likely to need service anyway. Besides by the time my bulb wears out I'll likely be able to upgrade my projector at least 2 steps for another $1000 and p
Macrovision is a non-issue... (Score:3, Informative)
Fuck hollywood. Fuck macrovision. Fuck region codes.