New South Wales Traffic Authority Switches to Macs 350
MacGyver writes ""In what may well be Apple Computer's largest coup in the Australian enterprise space, the New South Wales Roads and Traffic Authority (RTA) will deploy 1200 G4 iMacs across 140 registry offices." This isn't just a Mac story: the RTA statement noted, "The Apple rollout is a continuation of RTA usage of open standards-based software and systems. The further adoption of open source is being undertaken to provide more choice of vendors and to guarantee RTA systems are providing value for money."
Re:Ummm... (Score:5, Informative)
lets take a looksie
windows has the registry. apple has xml files
outlook and outlook express use a proprietary database format. apple uses mbox
windows uses a proprietary network file sharing protocol. apple uses nfs
windows has a closed kernel. mac uses a freebsd kernel (of which you can download on apple's website).
microsoft uses it's own proprietary messaging protocol. apple uses oscar (which may not be open, but it's a hell of a lot more used and standard)
microsoft's browser defaults searches to msn. apple's browser defaults to google.
microsoft's browser is based on a non-standards compliant closed source engine. apple's is based off the open source khtml library.
microsoft's compiler and IDE is closed and costs thousands. apple's is free (xcode) and based off an open source compiler (gcc).
microsoft's backing
microsoft uses a closed source web server. apple ships os x with an open source webserver, apache.
microsoft implemented a proprietary api for game development, directx. apple bases their display system (quartz extreme) off opengl, and supports openal now as well.
x86 machines use proprietary bioses for each motherboard. apple uses openfirmware, developed by sun and ibm i believe.
i think i've made my point, but believe me, there's more. that sounds a lot more like open-standards based than microsoft.
Re:Ummm... (Score:3, Informative)
Ummm... Since when did Micro$oft start basing Windoze off of an open source OS (As Apple has by basing OSX on Darwin (which itself is a FreeBSD derivative))? Does Microsoft give away development tools like OS X's Xcode?
Wouldn't a Linux or *BSD solution, ultimately, be what they should have gone with?
You could definately say that OS X is a *BSD solution.
Re:Providing more vendor options? (Score:5, Informative)
Since Macs run just about everything people use Windows for (Office, E-mail, calendars, accounting, etc.), and can run almost all *nix software, they are the #1 platform for variety of software choice. There isn't even room for debate.
Re:iMac & open source (Score:2, Informative)
Maybe there's quite a bit of OSS software for Windows, but have you ever tried to compile some yourself? Unless shipped with specific win patches, it won't be easy -- or even possible. Compiling for OSX is, on the other hand, mostly just
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ummm... (Score:3, Informative)
"NextOS" doesn't exist, but Mac OS X is somewhat derived from OPENSTEP, from NeXT.
There is a precedent (Score:3, Informative)
Or at least they were in the 1990s. I'm a bit out of date on my Mac info.
Re:If they really wanted value... (Score:2, Informative)
Lets put it this way:
for the cost of the MS per seat license for this one company ($15 million per year), is enough to pay for the majority of the hardware transition (if you buy in bulk). The rest of the cost can be handled in the savings on electricity in the first year and then after that it is putting a couple million bucks back into the corporate coffers. The cost of the Mac license is WAY less then 1/2 of 1% of that. Sure rolling your own has no license cost but it also leaves noone to sue if something goes horribly wrong and forces you to keep your experts in house rather then a phone call away. Good for IT guys but bad for shareholders.
Based upon my renters change over from MS to Mac his eMac is costing him $40 LESS per month to power! That adds up to $480 a year going back into his pocket (actually since his electric is included in his rent that is a fuckload of cash in MY pocket)!
Compare the costs of buying a low end eMac to the low end say Dell, add the purchase price to the price to power it over the year and the Mac is now cheaper by $80 at least. The second year the Dell is now over $500 more expensive. And that ignores entirely license costs, or the cost of any virii outbreaks (the company I worked for last spent $45 million US on either preventing or cleaning up from just one years worth of those), or other costs like heating and cooling floors with large numbers of desktops.
As to development... Well since you can run X11 pretty tightly in Panther you can code for it, and then include some free sample code to have it tie in to the main OS. Yup you can write X11 apps include some headers provided for free from Apple and have them hook into CoreFoundation, Cocoa, or even Carbon! So you're covered a bit.
So you are coming across as penny wise but pound foolish.
Re:Kudos to the Apple sales dude... (Score:1, Informative)
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
and "your mac's been upgraded again?" would be "your mac has been upgraded again?" not "your mac is been upgraded again?".
so if you're the grammar nazi, i must be the grammar military police
Open my ass (Score:0, Informative)
The Apple GUI isn't any more open than MS. The only stuff that is open in Apple is stuff that didn't originate there.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ummm... (Score:5, Informative)
If you'd RTFA, you'd know that the "open standards" referred to are Java and Unix, which OSX interoperates with much better than Windows, which (apparently) was used previously. The iMacs run a Java virtual terminal and Mozilla browsers. Is that open enough?
Re:hmmm (Score:4, Informative)
Probably because it has outsourced it's IT to Compaq, and then HP (With IBM GSA Doing application design in the wings) disentangling the incumbent MAC components has been a nightmare for them, predominantly because of hardware vendors more focused on selling new widgets than working out what flavour of widgets the customer required.
But then, this is the same company that has a Billing System that runs just fine on VAXes, that they haven't been able to "beat" with applications runing on Sun E10000's and HP Superdomes...
Re:WHAT? (Score:5, Informative)
The projects I worked on: Communications Toolbox, AppleShare 2.0, AppleShare PC, AppleShare IP, PC Exchange, Copland, MacTerminal, quality lead for the Scriptable Finder, iTools (later
I could go on for a while, but suffice it to say that I know Macs.
With all I know, I will always purchase new Apple hardware. I'm recommending Apple hardware to everyone for whom it is appropriate.
I can rebuild a Mac from parts I buy at WalMart (monitors, CD and DVD drives, external Zip drives, speakers, mice, keyboards, hard drives, routers (wired and wireless), USB and FireWire cards in both PCI and PCMCIA flavors), RadioShack (memory, USB keyboards, mice and hubs) or Office Depot (miscellaneous). As long as the equipment is up to spec, I don't worry about compatibility.
Apple isn't perfect. It has its quirks. But I fix more Macs more quickly with less hassle than just about any Windows shitbox you could put in front of me. And they stay fixed.
End of story.
Re:Ummm... (Score:3, Informative)
This is like saying, "I would be tempted to believe you if Linux wasn't so GNU-centric. Mac=Apple=Mac. I don't see your point.
Apple includes proprietary Mac OS X only programs for everything: music, photo, movies, DVD player, email, contacts, and office programs.
iTunes isn't Mac OS X only. And Apple doesn't make an Office program. And they can't legally open their DVD player either. Get your facts straight.
Apple makes sure that everything that goes into their computers has their logo and their stamp of a aproval on it. They insure that you cannot purchase components directly from the supplier so that they make as much money as possible, another great way to support open standards.
Yes, that's the problem with Windows and Linux. Nothing is really guaranteed to work. It's always plug and pray. Actually, only the outside of a Mac has the logo on it. And my mouse, keyboard, hard drive, monitor, speakers, RAM, and several other parts can all bought from third-party vendors. So much for your weird closed standards notion of Apple. Thinking back to the Mac Plus days were we?
Their OS while based on Unix can only be installed on Mac hardware while its base suggests that it could be run on X86 machines and other formfactors becides their own.
Er, wrong again. DarwinBSD (which is the UNIX underpinnings of Mac OS X) can be installed on x86 architecture.
And just as MS pushes MSN and .net, Apple pushes Apple.com and .mac accounts.
Apple doesn't have apple.com accounts. And, no, they're not pushy about .mac accounts. I think you're getting confused with Microsoft Passport and Linux's Wallet program, which is the most annoying pushy feature I've seen yet in an OS. Mac OS X has NEVER popped up a dialog about .Mac
If anything, it is Apple that is the worst infraction to open standards computing, since they make sure that their standards are open only to other mac users. In essence, Appe takes from the open source community, mutates its function and intent, and then spits it back out with a high price and fruity colors. Going Apple is okay if thats your thing, but heralding their openness is like saying you purchased Windows for the stability.
Now this is where you really show your true colors, TROLL. If Apple hadn't embraced BSD, they would be nowhere as big as they are now. Apple embraced BSD when they didn't have to, and they lost 2 good years trying to get going on top of that crappy operating system (2000 and 2001). Apple is one of the few real success stories of open source, but you're all too ready to point the finger. It looks like you're too confused about this whole "sharing" thing to tell your friends from your enemies. Anyone who decides to give their work away for free and then DEMAND that people use it exactly as they wish is a FOOL. Giving things away is a risk you take for a greater good. You shouldn't be advocating open standards when you don't know why or what they're for, you hypocrite
As one of the decision makers on this... (Score:5, Informative)
The main reason for choosing iMacs over a Linux/BSD/whatever solution (which we did try side by side with plenty of others) was OH&S.
Yes, Occupational Health and Safety. They took one look at the screen design, the way each individual user could move the screen where they wanted it and they were pretty much sold. We approached another supplier for a similar solution, only to get a quote for a movable screen of equivalent specs that put it about AUD $1000 over the price of the iMacs.
We were keen to Switch to Macs from our Javastations because they make a great product, they are supported by a "big" name (the rest of our our system is Solaris), and we can perform remote admin and stuff easily.
Other big-name suppliers were pushing to get in on this but someone with the authority to make such decisions said "no Windows in registries" after Blaster/Slammer/et al took out most of the rest of the organisation while our Javastations kept on kicking on.
As with any public-facing organisation, the amount of customers we would have had to say "sorry you've waited half an hour already, please come back tomorrow, assuming we've fixed it by then" to if our registry network was taken out would have made for a bigger news story than this one by far.
On another note, the press release that seems to have made it out mixes two different things we are doing - changing to the iMacs here, which running our custom Java app (plus Mozilla and a few other bits and pieces), and investigating open-source as a general concept. There's plenty of OS there all throughout the registry network, but the corporate desktops are all still Win2k/Office/Exchange/Novell jobbies, the replacement of which is being investigated with closed and open solutions from varying vendors.
Re:Good, yet bad. (Score:5, Informative)
The fact that they are a UNIX-based system by default is great, and after the hardware was all but decided on there was some talk of running Linux on them, but that never eventuated.
We tried Sunrays, but they didn't suit what we wanted to do. We looked pretty seriously at them, since we are replacing Javastations in this rollout (generation before Sunrays), but the didn't do everything we wanted.
Re:What value? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Ummm... (Score:1, Informative)
It used to be a mess and there were alot of netbsd things, no man pages, and a bunch of misc. stuff. but recently 10.2+ things are maturing nicely and the man pages are getting updated and all the user level utilities are updated.
Re:What value? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Providing more vendor options? (Score:3, Informative)
Wow. Was Apple always right???
Re:As one of the people who helped with the bid ;) (Score:5, Informative)
Another reason the iMac's moveable screen was such a hit was that it allows the RTA staffmember to show the customer an image of their licence photo before the licence is printed, which happens at the registry. (New South Wales driving licences are pinted on demand on a plastic card the same size and thickness as a credit card, and include a passport style picture. A transparent holographic image is then laminated on top to make them harder to forge.)
But if YOU were given a spec that looked like this: Replace our EOL'ed Javastations, must have
LCD screen on movable arm
fast, reliable Java implementation
strongly prefer UNIX
can't be Windows
Easy integration with head office wintel software a bonus
Would you pick anything but an iMac?
Re:Open my ass (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Fags (Score:3, Informative)
OS X is not just a pretty UI running on top of a FreeBSD kernel, but saying that it is not based on FreeBSD is also wrong.
Re:If they really wanted value... (Score:3, Informative)
I think this is one of the big issues with Linux on the desktop. Not all IT managers are dumb. They realize if they have a few thousand operations employees, a switch to Linux is going to involve training, countless hours of help desk support, on site PC support, etc. So what, you save a hundred bucks a head or something by not having to buy XP. The cost per head to have a good tech employed with benefits and by the time you factor in paying workers comp, the employers part of FICA, etc.... well- he only has to sit at someones desk a couple hours before the "savings" of $100 is totally negated. If these guys are willing to ship jobs overseas to save money, don't you think they would make a simple switch of desktop software if it was really that simple to save the money?
A while back I remember putting in a request to buy an application icon set for a couple hundred bucks- included hundreds of high quality app icons in all different states. A coworker at first thought I was an idiot. His comment was that "we can just draw our own." Uh, yeah. Spend weeks drawing our own icons at senior software engineer salaries (probably a few thousand bucks). Or, pay $200.
Time is money in the IT world, and in an incredibly big way.
The Finder (Score:3, Informative)
Just pop in a blank CD, drag files to it and pull it to the trash (which turns into a burn icon)
Alternatively, you can use Disk Utility, located in Applications > Utilities.
Personally, I think it's worth the money for Toast Titanium.
You can download a freeware Toast-a-like from versiontracker that does pretty much everything Toast does. It's called Firestarter.