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Handhelds Media Music Hardware

Realtime Concert Program Notes on a PDA 120

Posted by michael from the peter-and-the-wolf dept.
PoisonousPhat writes "NPR has an article on a new idea for concertgoers at the Aspen Music Festival. Dubbed the 'Concert Companion', the concept used a PDA (a Sony Clie PEG-NX73V for those of you that MUST know) as a 'listener's guide...that updates you with information about what you're hearing, in real time.' The concept seems similar to the audio headsets available in museum tours. Read the bleeping article here."
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Realtime Concert Program Notes on a PDA More

Realtime Concert Program Notes on a PDA

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  • the Sony Clie PEG-NX73V can be found here [cnet.com]

  • PDA in the audience (Score:3, Insightful)

    by pheared ( 446683 ) <[ten.deraehp] [ta] [nivek]> on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:16PM (#7155136) Homepage
    Yeah and theatre geeks are upset.

    I sit on the fence. On one hand, I would find it horribly distracting to have a gadget in front of me. However, it's nearly as distracting as all of the other people in the world who are so important that they need to be fucking with their cell phones at every moment of the day. Perhaps the PDA would at least turn their attention away from a device that does a poor rendition of Beethoven's Fifth everytime someone calls.
    • chances are their PDA's and Cell phones will be one and the same, so they will simply look at the program notes while they are talking on their phone (in speaker phone mode of course) while setting their ringtones to match the song that is currently playing.
    • This sort of implementation of program notes was trying in my high school for a play where we were being judged... we collected 12 PDAs and created program notes using AvantGo as the method of presenting the data. It worked well, but the judges didn't use it till afterwards, they didn't like having to "interact" with the program notes to see the information in the middle of a performance.

      What worked better the next year was a Kiosk-style computers setup at a booth where we created a website that had infin

    • Re:PDA in the audience (Score:3, Insightful)

      by pavon ( 30274 )
      You know what, they have little reason to be upset. If they don't want to read the PDA's then they don't have to. A glowing screen a couple rows down isn't that much of a distraction. Especially if they displayed light text on a dark background.

      This could have some usefull benefits. For example, I know that actively listening to music is not natural for me - my mind wanders. Having something that points out things in the music may actually help me pay attention to the music more rather than distracting me

  • Just what we needed (Score:2, Insightful)

    by sahonen ( 680948 )
    A billion PDAs beeping while I'm trying to listen to an orchestra. I hope they take the speakers out of these things.

    • Sample commentaries (Score:5, Funny)

      by Atario ( 673917 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:34PM (#7155324) Homepage
      Listen to this...this is where the violin section can never quite get the staccato right. Hear that? See, it should sound like this...[MIDI plays, loudly]

      Oooh, now here comes the soloist. Did you know she's having an affair with the conductor? And they're both married! Can you believe it? I KNOW!

      Ahhh, I love this next part. It reminds me of the time I went to Aspen. It's SO nice there. Have you ever been? [Click here to book a flight now!]
    • A billion PDAs beeping while I'm trying to listen to an orchestra. I hope they take the speakers out of these things.

      If you would just, I don't know Read The F-ing Article, you might realize that they're sending TEXT.

      A billion neurons firing in your skull, and not one coherent thought, while I'm trying to read slashdot. I hope they take the keyboard away from you.

  • Whatever happened... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Black Parrot ( 19622 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:19PM (#7155166)

    ...to the Good Old Days, when you went to a concert to hear the music instead of playing with your electronic toys.

  • Or get a bloody booklet (Score:3, Funny)

    by Brahmastra ( 685988 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:19PM (#7155172)
    Get a bloody booklet about the concert before the concert and read that. Keep your shitty, glowing, backlit crap out of theaters. Cell-phones are bad enough

    • Better idea. (Score:1, Flamebait)

      by I'm a racist. ( 631537 )
      How about you listen to the music, watch the band, interact with those around you... that's the reason for going to a concert, afterall.

      The glow of a PDA wouldn't bother me, but the asshole using it would. For example, I was at a concert in July, and some douchebag was complaining that I was blocking his view. The jackass was actually sitting down (he's lucky not to have been trampled) and talking on his cell phone. Sitting down is bad enough, but to actually be on the phone at a fucking concert defies a

  • Streaming Video (Score:3, Funny)

    by javatips ( 66293 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:20PM (#7155175) Homepage
    Next thing they are going to stream you the video of the concert to you PDA!!!

    • Mazingo me, baby! [mazingo.net]

      When it's up and running you can be my Zaurus and I are going to be there.

    • stream you the video of the concert to you[sic] PDA

      I could have used something like at the performance of Chicago I saw recently. We sat so far over to one side, I had to duck down to peer below a stage light just to see the right half of the stage. But we had the privilege of paying the same price as the folks who sat front row center, so I was grateful for that.

  • Excellent, innovative idea, but -- (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    -- are there any games on it in case the performance sucks?

  • Encore! (Score:5, Funny)

    by dexter riley ( 556126 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:20PM (#7155182)
    My favorite piece from the concert was "Your Battery is Low!" but I also liked "Unexpected Application Error."
  • I suppose this will appeal to the same sort of people that like to go to big concerts and watch the band on video screens.

    Reality is so much better.

    Before you know it the same people will be checking their email on these devices at the same time.

  • why not also.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MarcoAtWork ( 28889 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:21PM (#7155199)
    preload the score on the devices and broadcast a synchronization signal? (you'd probably need somebody to follow the score somewhere and, say, tap a key every 8 measures, don't think it could be done automatically).

    The screen is a bit small but with a half-vga resolution (320x480) in landscape mode it should be feasible to show 2-3 staffs and at least 3-4 measures.

    The user would probably also be able to select what instruments they're interested in (say, violins & brass, or choir & organ, or whatever) because you wouldn't obviously be able to show all the staffs at the same time.

    I'd find this much more useful than comments like the ones written in the article.
    • You might be interested in Variations2 [indiana.edu], a project at Indiana University that combines a digital music library (yes, it's legal!) with a library of scores. See for example a page from the Variations2 manual [indiana.edu] that explains how to synchronize music playback with score viewing:

      With the score viewer, you can listen to a selection and follow along on the score at the same time. You can bookmark pages in online scores for future use, and score views can be changed according to your preferences. If the score you
      • "With the score viewer, you can listen to a selection and follow along on the score at the same time."

        Couple of years ago I managed a pianist, who then played a live recital in London, which was consequently released on an Audio-DVD (actually the first one with a piano recital ever).

        The music was by Chopin and Scriabin, whose works are in the public domain. I got in touch with the German publisher (who only holds the copyrights for his edited version of the score) and we intended to use the spare capacity
  • With an increase in pdas, the guys tuning into sports (whatever the wireless tech) when their wives take them out to get some culture won't stand out so much in the crowd now.

  • This will help? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by slimak ( 593319 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:23PM (#7155221)
    orchestras are looking for new audiences, and considering new ways to attract those audiences. One possibility is a high tech device called the "Concert Companion."
    Are there really that many people thinking "Man, the orchestra would be worth going to if it only had some gadget to play with." It seems like this could possibily strengthen current audience interest, but draw new audiences?
    • Are there really that many people thinking "Man, the orchestra would be worth going to if it only had some gadget to play with." It seems like this could possibily strengthen current audience interest, but draw new audiences?

      Uh, yeah... when they built the new Kroger grocery store near me and installed the fancy in-cart computers with the LCD panels that could display a map of the store, direct you to specific items in the store, display a list of sale items in the aisle that you're in, etc I switched and
  • not sure Beethoven would write his symphonies if he knew what texts in realtime will accompany their performances 200 years later...

  • Well, It's certainly better than a talking guide.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by antimith ( 683310 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:24PM (#7155240)
    I'd certainly prefer it over one of those little hand held talking things like you can get at the National Gallery in DC.
    But what was wrong with paper? guess their just trying to save a few trees. :\

    I've seen PDA's used for guides for conferences, seminars etc.. and they always seem like overkill. But I like the techy stuff as mutch as the next guy and I've been looking for a reason to use those little dinks so bring on the toys hehe.
    [stupid]
    Wonder if the'll be supported at the next metallica concert 'round here
    [/stupid]
  • In former times people would have had a pamphlet, now they will have a $400 (retail) backlit display. When epaper becomes commonplace, I can see this taking off. Until then, I can't believe that this is more than a gimmick (which they seem to admit in the article.)
  • Too expensive ($450), too many features, and not too well suited for renting out (not especially rugged, too desirable for theives).
    • too desirable for theives

      well, if you do things right (the synchronization/messages in the concert hall do -not- go out of the hall itself) and you put a pinger in the foyer, if you receive any pongs it means that somebody has 'forgotten' to return a device...
      • Unless, that is, you want a SWAT team ready to jump anyone who takes little CoCo to the bathroom.

        With a $450 piece of hardware, the only solution is to get a credit card deposit. This presents its own set of hassles.
        • Easy enough to custom flash the rom so that no other programs are on there. Besides a cc hold is not terribly onerous and will help keep people honest.
          • ...the theft problem is definitely surmountable.

            I only brought it up as one reason not to try to emulate a simple device with an expensive, complex one.

            Similarly, they could use Tablet PC's for audio tours of museums and for restaurant-queue-pagers. But they don't.
  • ...make going to an opera more bearable, as you could read the subtitles, possibly get a whole page of the script so you could glance down at the translation to understand what's going on.

    But then again, it's still opera.

    • Re:This might... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by gatzke ( 2977 )

      At the met in NYC they already have a little unobtrusive LCD display on the back of each chair in front of you for line by line translation in real time.

      It was nice to be able to follow along the text or just listen without too much technical trouble (like a PDA)

  • Why are you bleeping your words? This is Slashdot, and your @#$@#^& words should be said proudly.

    -Anonymous Coward
  • for classical music this seems like a distraction (to you and those around you). On the other hand translation for opera seems like a natural for something like this - sort of personal subtitles ....
    • I see Opera occassionally, and they have a surtitle (above) screen above the stage.

      Personally, I still swat up beforehand, and don't need to bother too much with tragedies, but for comedies it's good. And much better than awful translations.

  • they do something similar at the Detroit Institute of the Arts. you are offered a handset that resembles a phone and each peice of art in a given exibition has a number you can key in to hear some info. my wife loves these as she feels she's getting more of the 'art experience.' i'm lukewarm at best as i'd rather just look at art--and by extension listen to music. but to each his own....

    except for the bastards that turn the volume up all the way so they can hold it a foot away from their heads like a n

  • oh no... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Triv ( 181010 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:35PM (#7155330) Journal
    Those little digital tourguides are the most annoying and grating objects I've ever seen in a museum. The speakers are either open air or cheap headphones, neither of which does a particularly good job of shielding the rest of us from the noise, particularly when you're surrounded by two dozen of them and they all have the volume cranked up to fucking 15. You walk through the museum perpetually surrounded by this high-pitched buzz.

    I go to a museum to see the art, not be annoyed by loud, stupid people. I go to a show to hear the music, not be annoyed by flashing PDAs and stupid people.

    • "The speakers are either open air or cheap headphones.."

      ok, so it's not the concept that is flawed but the medium used to deliver it.

    • Re:oh no... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Eponymous Coward ( 6097 )
      Unfortunately, we are not all as well educated as you. When I go to a museum, I always pick up one of the audio tour guides when they are available. It lets me tour the museum as slowly as I want and tells me lots of interesting stuff about what I'm looking at. Before I moved, I used to just take along a friend who happened to have a degree in art history and she would clue me in. Do you also get annoyed by people around you talking about the exhibits?

      Any orchestra concert I've been to has always had a pap

  • In other news (Score:2, Funny)

    by LupusUF ( 512364 )
    Geeks start raising their PDA's over their heads with the backlights on as a safe alternative to using a lighter.
  • I want to read the article, but it's going to take me a few minutes until I figure out which of the dozen hyperlinks in the story submission actually GOES to the article.

    Hyperlinks are like drugs; they can be addictive, they can make your life happier or worse, and perhaps most importantly, abuse of them ought to be punishable by law.

  • I like it, but maybe not for concerts? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dspyder ( 563303 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:41PM (#7155380)
    I do think real-time data delivery to some sort of handheld device is a very good piece of functionality. They [maybe used to] do it at Giants games at PacBell (SBC?) park. You could get stats on the current batter and pitcher as well as scores from other games around the league on your Palm. Very nice service.

    The other day I was at the ALMS race at Laguna Seca and was craving a real-time view of the leader-board and lap times since we were too far away from the screens they have there to be able to see things. Turns out ALMS does offer a product that uses the Gameboy Advance to give you that information over radio-waves. Why not just send the same data over WiFi or GPRS?

    The thing they use is icardus [icardus.com]. Sorry for the plug. Never used it, and no affiliation.

    --D
  • I'd steal the PDA, personally. Someone said these things cost $450. If that's true, why is it so expensive? Just buy a few used PDA's off ebay, I'm sure they would be less expensive. And no, these things in an orchestra would be too distracting, but using a PDA to display subtitles in an opera would be terrific.

  • PDAs vs. Projector (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Starlet Monroe ( 512664 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:45PM (#7155416) Journal
    I work at the Colorado Music Festival, and this year we implemented a similar concept. Our conductor was aware of the Aspen system, but hadn't been impressed with it. He felt that it distracted from the musical experience to have that much going on... I suspect it also had a little to do with people looking down instead of up at the orchestra.

    At any rate, we elected to use a subtle projected numbering system that corresponded to each movement or theme. In the paper program for the concert, these themes/comments/history were listed. We called it "Keeping Score". (Yeah, I know...)

    It was a brilliant success, however. The festival saw something like a 10% attendance/revenue increase this season. For a Colorado arts organization, that's huge: Our governor removed all funding for the arts this year, including blocking millions of dollars in matching funds from the National Endowment. Arts orgs in the state have been collapsing left and right.

    I think that having a cheap solution like Aspen implemented is fantastic for smaller orchestras. Don't get me wrong, CMF is pretty big, but it's no Aspen. I'd love to see both options next season though -- a subtle projector *and* a handheld option. We had a few pieces this year that had opera or spoken parts which we were able to project English translations for; I'd love to be able to push different languages to our international attendees.

    • subtle projected numbering system
      How subtle does it have to be so that they don't get the joke?

      Maybe all you need is a subliminal auditory track. Then you can just put "4" just outside perception, and see how many golfers duck.

  • In my local newspaper, I think.
  • If orchestras buy this new technology, you may be able to rent a Concert Companion PDA for $7 or $10 at a concert hall near you as soon as the fall of 2004.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant. Let's take the idea we had to get people listening to the music in the first place, and then charge people extra money for it. With marketing sense like this I'm not *surprised* they're going out of business.

    It'd be like an airline proclaiming "Now, all our seats have TVs mounted in them, so you can watch video without strai

  • Sports arenas is a better application (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ianscot ( 591483 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:49PM (#7155458)

    Personally I like to read the program notes before the orchestra starts to play, and somehow I'm thinking there's not much you need to add on-the-fly to your notes about the Symphonie Fantastique. What's the breaking news?

    This sort of thing would make tons more sense for sports events, where drilling down to see someone's stats against this pitcher (or whatever) would add to your experience without detracting from others'. For concerts? We're replacing rustling paper with the chit chits of styluses scrabbling over PDAs, but what did we gain, again?

  • I can watch the football results before I fall asleep

    I know I'm a cultureless slob

  • PDA: "A swing and a line drive"

    Tech Geek: "See, honey?"

    PDA: "Foul ball"

    Tech Geek: "It's cool because you can read in realtime..."

    PDA: "Headed for the stands."

    Tech Geek: "... about what's going on in the..."

    [Thunk]

    Announcer: "Oooh, that's gotta hurt."

  • Similar Technology @ Purdue (Score:3, Informative)

    by ttyp0 ( 33384 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @02:59PM (#7155539) Homepage
    Boilermaker football fans at Purdue University's Ross-Ade Stadium are able to score up-to-the-minute statistics, player and coach biographies and other electronic "infotainment" using PDAs [purdue.edu]. Purdue received $1.2 million from Cisco to roll out the new wireless infrastructure at the stadium. I haven't tried it myself (not that much of a geek), but definately cool idea.

    Show your hate for SCO [anti-tshirts.com]. Get a cool t-shirt and donate to the Open Source Now Fund.

  • Related to this, it might be nice to have instant access to interactive statistics and scoring at during games in real time through a PDA.
    • Most stadium marquees have essential stat info. available, and hardcore fans will have important stats committed to memory (like the fact the Yankees have never lost a LCS series). Small radio headset to keep an "ear" on the broadcasters works just as well. If you're that desperate for real-time stats, call your friend at home using your cell phone.

      "Scoring" baseball via PDA is sterile and it doesn't react well to spilled beer. A dog-eared scorebook from each season though is priceless.

  • Why not just provide an ebook of the program guide and let people look at it at their leisure. Man this makes going to a concert so clinical and sterile. Use your fucking imagination for once!
    • Why not just let people have gorgeous programs like the ones I get from the Welsh National Opera [wno.org.uk] which I have a nice collection of, are well bound and I can flick through.

      All this stuff is just technology for technology's sake. Next thing someone will suggest providing an RSS feed of the scores.

      I go to concerts and operas to get away from this.

  • I'm not surprised at all that the orchestras are going bankrupt. If the music's so complicated that people need Cliff Notes to figure out what to listen for during the piece, something's wrong. Either the orchestra sucks and the parts are not standing out on their own, or the sound system sucks and we can't hear what they're doing. I don't think a little PDA guide is the way to go. However, it's a neat idea and would be good for other events, like maybe opera or baseball, like some other posters suggested.
    N
    • I don't think its so much that the music might be complicated... as much as it is that people untrained in classical music, or hell, music analysis in general.. may not know anything about the music or instruments or whatever
      SImple fun facts, like the number of mallets the percussion section uses... might make the musical experience more interesting, to the untrained ear :)
  • Why not show the comments alongside or behind the orchestra on a projector screen? Tastefully done, it could even become part of the performance (suitable colors, scenes, or shapes). Sort of like pop/country concerts do with bigscreens, except these would actually intertwine interesting facts instead of the artist's latest video.

    Seems like a single screen would be much cheaper than loaning everyone a PDA.

    • Though I'm not offended by the use of PDAs for classical music, having audience members "heads down" at dramatic performances is probably not such a good idea.

      At a performance this past July at the Syndey Opera House, there were projector-screen subtitles and plot elements provided to assist the audience. Perfect for opera newbies who aren't fluent in italiano. A PDA in this case, while perhaps fun, would have been impractical. Also, I think the screen illumination could be distracting for others.

    • We found [slashdot.org] that having the projected image very bright at all was quite distracting. Also, for any large venue (say >1000 seats), you need a fairly large image for the entire audience to see it -- probably 80% of your concert-goers are past retirement age.

      I think there's a lot of difficulty balancing the desire to have functional visual stimulation on stage against the actual visual artistry inherent in a live orchestral production. It's done a lot of ways, and sometimes fails miserably -- and that's ju
  • This sort of implementation of program notes was trying in my high school for a play where we were being judged... we collected 12 PDAs and created program notes using AvantGo as the method of presenting the data. It worked well, but the judges didn't use it till afterwards, they didn't like having to "interact" with the program notes to see the information in the middle of a performance.

    What worked better the next year was a Kiosk-style computers setup at a booth where we created a website that had infin

  • Take a look at what Purdue Univeristy has done:

    http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/030906.B o ttum.eathletics.html
    Should be no spaces in the actual URL

    "Boilermaker football fans at Purdue University's Ross-Ade Stadium this fall will be able to score up-to-the-minute statistics, player and coach biographies and other electronic "infotainment" using personal digital assistants (PDAs) while cheering on the home team."

    This information seems more useful to me.
  • According to the FCC, you can say 'fucking' now [fcc.gov]... (pdf)

  • This is a great concept that will probably take a while to mature. Probably all of you have heard Beethoven's 9th, but how many of you know that the surprising F major cadence in the Scherzo was the first time that harmonic change was presented in a major work? My point is, if you have that in a printed program, you'll never be able to locate it during the hour+ performance, but if you have a text message that states it will be heard in the next 30 seconds or so, you give the listener a possible scaffoldi
  • Um, the stateside version of this Sony PDA doesn't have bluetooth or 802.11b. The highly sought out European one does have bluetooth. They can accept a wireless card, but it HAS to be Sony and it HAS to cost lots of money. Looks more like a NX80V to me, but still doesn't have the wireless. AFAIK, the only Sony that includes the 802.11b out of the box is the $699 PEG-UX60
    • http://sonyelectronics.sonystyle.com/micros/clie /models/ux50.html
  • I'll concede that it might help new concertgoers or people trying to learn about a given piece of music for the first time. I can really see a place for it in music-appreciation classes or even some music theory classes.

    For myself I'd have to rank the idea right down there near the bottom with those projected subtitles they give you at the opera. I don't even think I'd enjoy it at a football game.

    One good way to attract concertgoers and stave off bankruptcy for any more symphony orchestras might be to
  • First, this will only go somewhere with people who are aficionados of the music they are listening to. Thinking that it will create new listeners because it gives them more detail is like telling me I'll like this guacamole because the salsa in it has cilantro. I fucking hate avocados, and you won't convince someone who doesn't like to listen to classical because there is some interesting part of the music, because they can watch a PDA at a concert.

    Look at Metallica and their classical gig. I'm sure M

  • Symptomatic of the decline of classical music (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ziriyab ( 549710 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @04:31PM (#7156464)
    Music is supposed to be a form of communication. The most expressive music simulates the cadences of emotional speech (bluesy wails, wah wahs, even a fast frantic solo). With western classical music we saw the organization of these concepts into rules for intervals and chord sequences, but somewhere along the line it all got too bloated for a lay understanding. It became so that you needed to know all these things to truly appreciate what the composer was trying to express.

    This isn't bad by itself, of course. Poetry with a 300 word vocabulary is pretty crappy (think nursey rhymes or bad rap). The development of this new vocabulary for music helps make it more expressive, but at the same time less accessible.

    People can still respond to the purely emotional parts of a piece like Beethoven's 9th, the majority sit there twidling their tumbs waiting for the "Ode to Joy" part to start. Why spend years listening to classical music and reading music theory when you can just pop in the latest nursery rhyme (e.g. Brittany) and get instant gratification?

    I guess, the PDAs just treat the symptom and gives yuppies something to say at cocktail parties to make themselves look sophisticated, but the solution is better (maybe mandatory) music education in school.

  • Most shows ban recording devices.. so you can just carry this with you and claim you are getting the 'notes', that you really arent recording and broadcasting back to your car via bluetooth...

    Get a buddy and you can do stereo :)

  • Professor Schickele did it first (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Chelloveck ( 14643 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @04:47PM (#7156650)

    Frankly, I prefer Professor Peter Schickele's New Horizons in Music Appreciation [schickele.com] as a way of distributing performance notes during a concert.

  • Making mobile devices more powerful. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Greg@RageNet ( 39860 ) on Tuesday October 07, 2003 @05:21PM (#7157009) Homepage
    I think we will see a lot more of this type of technology in the future, where PDA's and other personal devices can provide more information on your surroundings. I think we'll see more of this sort of thing perhaps with sporting events. Imagine being able to look up a players stats at a football game; or recieving evacuation instructions on your cellphone when hurricane warnings go into effect.

    I really like this idea and I've been implementing it myself with California traffic Information [knowtraffic.com]. It makes you PDA or cellphone much more useful to get you context'ed information in real-time.

    -- Greg
  • Would be on an enhanced DVD at home.

    So, I could watch a concert or opera, and maybe pause it and read up on a particular section, or get notes that way.

    When I go out, it's different. I may sit at home and follow the libretto of an opera to understand it better, but I do that so I can enjoy it without watching the subtitle screen when I go out.

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